And the #1 tanking state is ...

[GatorTennis]

Well said. It just takes one team doing it and it forces every other team to start cheating.

completely true. not that everyone is going to start cheating or that it will be to the same level, but it happens. What's an LLC going to do when they've let other captains get away with it. believe me, there are several captains who have emails from the LLC's rationalizing why the other captain isn't cheating.

 

[brettatk]

What I'm starting to see are teams that haven't cheated in the past starting to cheat because they know they can't get to State or beyond and compete against the teams that do.

 

[Startzel]

completely true. not that everyone is going to start cheating or that it will be to the same level, but it happens. What's an LLC going to do when they've let other captains get away with it. believe me, there are several captains who have emails from the LLC's rationalizing why the other captain isn't cheating.

Yep. Our LLC sent an email rarionalizinf why his grandson could self rate as a 2.5 even though he played high school tennis. He also rationalized how his son's girlfriend could be a 2.5 even though she was a division 1 athlete in another sport.

Unfortunately our state coordinator is corrupt as well. When we complained she said there is no actual usta rule that requires you to self rate correctly.

 

[Startzel]

What I'm starting to see are teams that haven't cheated in the past starting to cheat because they know they can't get to State or beyond and compete against the teams that do.

Yep. It's really hard not to cheat when you're stuck in that cycle. I wasn't bumped this year but I know next year when I am bumped I won't ever have any chance at that level or the higher level in mixed because our rival club is so strong with their manipulation.

It will be a tough pill because I would have to sacrifice my morals to compete and I don't really want to do that. So most likely I'll just stop playing league tennis like so many others in my community

 

[schmke]

Yep. It's really hard not to cheat when you're stuck in that cycle. I wasn't bumped this year but I know next year when I am bumped I won't ever have any chance at that level or the higher level in mixed because our rival club is so strong with their manipulation.

It will be a tough pill because I would have to sacrifice my morals to compete and I don't really want to do that. So most likely I'll just stop playing league tennis like so many others in my community

Or just play and have fun and don't worry about being the best at your level. Sort of by definition, more than half of players are going to be in the lower 1/2 to 2/3 of a level and those players don't reasonably have a shot at winning at States/Districts/Sectionals, perhaps even local playoffs, unless they happen to be on a team with a bunch of upper 1/3 players.

This is just the nature of a system with arbitrary levels. Those players that are naturally upper 1/3 within their level will win a lot and be the ones that go to playoffs fairly regularly. If they improve and have a good year, they may be bumped up, but they may get bumped down naturally the following year. Consider a 4.0 that is naturally right at 3.95. If he plays exactly as expected, he will win a lot and stay right at 3.95. If he plays a bit better than expected one year, he may go up to 4.05 and get bumped up. But if he then plays just slightly worse than expected, he could go back to 3.95 and be bumped down the next year. A ratings variance of 0.1 is entirely reasonable and does not require tanking/cheating/etc.

If the USTA really wanted to be fair and give folks an equal shot at making it to playoffs, they should alternate years where they move the actual thresholds +/-0.25. One year, a 4.0 is 3.51-4.00 and the next year it is 3.26-3.75. Year 1, all the 3.76-4.00 guys are upper half and have their shot to win, and in year 2, all the 3.51-3.75 guys are upper half and have their shot to win. Doing periodic mass bump ups or adjustments sort of does this, but it is really just a one year effect as the 3.80s that get bumped up to 4.5 will inevitably come back down to 4.0 as they aren't really 4.01+ players, they are 3.80s that got incorrectly bumped up.

 

[heninfan99]

Is this the percentage of players in a given state that were bumped down a level and also played at least 3 matches?

Texas does now have the largest number of flagged players, but with a larger population playing than the other contenders, they are #6 per playing player. The list now is:

Alabama - 1.6%
Idaho - 0.9%
Nevada - 0.9%
Minnesota - 0.7%
Tennessee - 0.7%
Texas - 0.6%
Georgia - 0.6%
Indiana - 0.6%
Arizona - 0.6%
Puerto Rico - 0.6%

 

[schmke]

Is this the percentage of players in a given state that were bumped down a level and also played at least 3 matches?

No, this isn't just bumped down, but it is players with suspect results. My description of the latest try was:

Here is another pass. I've added in looking for players that have 2 or more unexpectedly bad results. I'm also looking at just men this time and not limiting it to players that were bumped down as that was missing players that might tank to stay at their same level.​

 

[heninfan99]

Yes, for the team win while making sure your best player(s) are not bumped up.

I was always told getting bumped down is rare anyway.

No, this isn't just bumped down, but it is players with suspect results. My description of the latest try was:

Here is another pass. I've added in looking for players that have 2 or more unexpectedly bad results. I'm also looking at just men this time and not limiting it to players that were bumped down as that was missing players that might tank to stay at their same level.​

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I just find it odd (don't understand the motivation) that sandbagging exists at all, for an activity where you don't win money?!
I used to play pool (eg. 9 ball) alot, where sandbagging happened all the time,... but when you're playing for $100 for a race to 7,... it makes sense to sandbag and try to get the best odds (eg. "spot") possible (or sandbag to reduce the "spot").

It must be part of some people's self-image: "I'm a winner. I'm on the best team. I have a 10-1 record." etc. Money is not the issue; in fact, it may be MORE important than money. I mean, I feel good after a win [unless I played really poorly] and not so good after a loss [unless I played really well] but it doesn't change [hopefully] my outlook on life. The way some people approach it, they are apparently playing a different game than just tennis.

 

[Lilwhitelie]

It must be part of some people's self-image: "I'm a winner. I'm on the best team. I have a 10-1 record." etc. Money is not the issue; in fact, it may be MORE important than money. I mean, I feel good after a win [unless I played really poorly] and not so good after a loss [unless I played really well] but it doesn't change [hopefully] my outlook on life. The way some people approach it, they are apparently playing a different game than just tennis.

The issue I have seen is many make it their LIFE. They sandbag to stay down so they can play on the best spring, tri level, mxd, combo team etc. they know if they get bumped their "life" is over. Nobody will be begging them to play. Many yearn for those out of town sectional trips or state champ trips for reasons not related to tennis. Ashley madison without the website. Ha

 

[chatt_town]

Texas had some Open Level players from Dallas at the 4.0 40+ National Champs that put a smackdown on everyone. It was like watching the IPTL on TV or something. These guys were incredible, and incredible sandbaggers. It was laughable. They were at maybe a 5.0+ level. It was fun to watch though.

Damn...good thing we got beat at the sectionals.lol I would have hated to put that kind of money into plane tickets & **** and then get mauled over.lol I played and won a singles match against the team that represented the southern section(I think it was La). they had some pretty good players. I wonder how they did. I'll have to look and see.

 

[chatt_town]

I just find it odd (don't understand the motivation) that sandbagging exists at all, for an activity where you don't win money?!
I used to play pool (eg. 9 ball) alot, where sandbagging happened all the time,... but when you're playing for $100 for a race to 7,... it makes sense to sandbag and try to get the best odds (eg. "spot") possible (or sandbag to reduce the "spot").

I think the reason it happens is people want to win no matter if they Roger Federer or if it's me hacking in the 4.0 division. Winning feels great to everyone. It's just more serious to some than it is others. I know I care about winning for the time period I'm actually playing but once it's over man...I could care less. I'm more interested in being and staying healthy now. That is why they do it though imo.