Babolat Pure Aero 2019, no arm pain?
- Thread starter Tsongham
- Start date
naturallight
Semi-Pro
The 2019 version gets a super low vibration score (143) on TWU given the stiffness of the racquet. I had to give up the 2013 version due to arm pain (155 vibration). Thinking about giving the 2019 a whirl.
Nathan Soria
New User
I switched back over to babolat from yonex and before that the 2013 aeropro drive. With the apd and especially the yonex i had elbow and shoulder pain, but now I barely have any pain.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Agree; new PA is definitely more comfortable than previous iterations.
Flying_Axe
Rookie
Good point. Though I think low vibration is not a guarantee i.e. Pure strike 17 has 139 or something but still an arm-killer to many. Demo is necessary.
guardian2002
New User
For a stiff tweener the PA 2019 is as good as it gets for comfort - partly the design makes the frame stable and partly the materials that dampen. Too much dampening will kill the feel and responsiveness IMHO.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
I have been trying it for just for fun for last 6 month, and no arm issue. but some wrist pain. but that might be cause some new strings I have been trying as well
Karma Tennis
Legend
The easiest way to reduce the likelihood of any arm pain with any of the stiffer Babolat models is to stuff the inside of the handle with Blue Tack or Silicone.
Doing this adds needed weight to the racquet improving the stability, gives it more Head Light balance making it a bit whippier, and has minimal effect of the feel.
(Assuming the player has decent stroke technique and is not using really stiff Poly strings strung at high tensions - over 52 lbs.)
Doing this adds needed weight to the racquet improving the stability, gives it more Head Light balance making it a bit whippier, and has minimal effect of the feel.
(Assuming the player has decent stroke technique and is not using really stiff Poly strings strung at high tensions - over 52 lbs.)
naturallight
Semi-Pro
I feel like this should work in theory, but in the past I have tried silicone and it didn’t seem to help at all.
One thing that did help was a little bit of lead tape on the tip of the racquet. This reduces vibrations even further, makes the racquet feel softer. Unfortunately it really affects the playing characteristics of the racquet as well—slows everything down, not as whippy.
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
I put some tungsten on the throat of my 2016 PA and it seems like the best of both worlds
heavier more solid feel, still whippy, easier to handle powerful shots because of increased stability
tried some at 12'oclock and didn't feel good, I don't think the PA is meant to be a heavy slow swinging kind of racket
I have the 2016 version and it is not the most comfortable racquet for sure.
Every powerful shot feels like someone hit you on the arm with a stick. But then again, I could use a more comfortable string...and I've only been playing for half a year.
I played with the PS and Clash as well and they are both more comfortable imo.
Every powerful shot feels like someone hit you on the arm with a stick. But then again, I could use a more comfortable string...and I've only been playing for half a year.
I played with the PS and Clash as well and they are both more comfortable imo.
Karma Tennis
Legend
The risk of Cumulative damage is minimised, if not eliminated, if the following things are attended to ...
1/ Proper stroke technique - especially with Serving and FH Groundstrokes.
2/ Proper Pre Hitting Warm Up Routines - 15 to 30 minutes of warmup including stretching and shadow swings
3/ Proper Post Hitting Cool Down Routines.
4/ Regular Scheduled Preventative Physical Maintenance - Physio, Chiro, Massage, etc.
Many players blame their equipment for causing their injuries. If they aren't doing the above things religiously, I'm not surprised.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
You may well be right in the idea that doing the right physical things are important with injury prevention, that is a given, however there are a lot of players who use these very stiff frames that have arm problems and the situation with Aero and Drive frames ( and other stiff frames from other makers) over the years seem to indicate is that they are bad for your arm. Even the pros who are sponsored by the companies don't get to play with the retail frames and instead have much more flexible lay ups in their frames.
From a recreational players point of view who don't have perfect fitness, technique and professional care would then be at an even greater risk of developing arm problems and should by virtue start using more comfortable frames from Pro Kennex, Angell, Prince and more recently Wilson ( Clash) old Volkl's and Pacifics, while improving their skills.
TennisHound
Legend
That’s called either: retired with no kids, single with no kids, married but retired and kids are out of the house, or young married with no kids.
Karma Tennis
Legend
@Crocodile, I get the feeling we have had this discussion many moons ago.
Many wish to target Aero and Drive frames as a culprit for tennis related arm injuries because they are (supposedly) "stiff" frames.
Imho AND IME, this is a complete furphie. I know many players (from Rec to Elite level) who have used these frames for several years without a problem. I have come to the conclusion that the main culprit is the STRINGS! Or rather, how frequently players restring their racquets.
Players in the know understand the relationship between the racquet and the string configuration. Using a stiff racquet with an old stiff string is bound to cause problems regardless of what brands are used.
Now YMMV, but anyone using an Aero or a Pure Drive with a stiff Poly string at mid to high tensions for more than 4 to 6 hitting hours is asking for problems imho.
I have always advised the Aero or Drive fans to restring after every 4 hours if they are using a typical Poly like RPM Blast / Team, Solinco TB, Luxilon ALU etc. Otherwise, they should move to a different racquet.
So, YES, like anything, if one abuses the solution they have chosen, they are bound to get into trouble sooner or later. I wouldn't be blaming the equipment for that, I would be blaming the "User"!
It's a lot easier to blame equipment for injuries than to accept personal responsibility at blame one's self. Funny how many posts I have read blaming racquets for injuries. Yet not once do I ever recall any one blaming themselves. LOL.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Not sure whether you are referring to "TIME", "MONEY" or both!
Proper Stroke Technique - A few Private Lessons and watch some youtube videos instead of trawling Social Media.
Pre and Post Hitting Routines - Adds 30 minutes to your visit to your local Tennis Courts. Do the routines instead of wasting time "catching up".
Preventative Maintenance - Physio and Chiro. Two visits per month totalling 1 hour. Massage. I visit per month for 30 minutes.
I guess it depends how much one values their long term health in general. We can always make time for stuff we really love doing. If we can't then we either do something else, or accept that getting injured is part of the deal and that we are responsible for that.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
Yes soft multi filaments and natural gut will make a stiff racquet more tolerable and Im not just talking about aeros or drives but all racquets with high stiffness ratings.
The problem is with racquets like Pure Drives and Aeros is that they are bought by younger players with modern techniques including heavy topspin games and they can't go multi or gut because they will chew up strings within say 1 hour of hitting, plus they need the dead response that poly's offer to give them the spin and control.
Try putting gut in an aero and play a flat game and see where the ball ends up.
pastashop42
Rookie
That’s the issue in a nutshell. The stiffer frames are quite powerful, so they need a non-elastic (non-stretchy) string to tame the ball, since the old way of taming the power - high tension - would feel too jarring. That the non-elastic string material turned out to be more slippery, notched less, and enhanced spin was mostly an unintended by-product of the material and low tensions used. But now users are a bit stuck with having to restring more frequently. The industry loves it, of course!
The average punter, however, doesn’t need the crazy spin, and they could benefit from the easier, traditional style of stroking the ball — easier in the aging body and more pleasant feeling of hitting the ball for everyone involved. IMO.
TennisHound
Legend
The PAs have always been a little on the stiff side, with a little more SW than the APD. That’s usually a recipe for arm problems, regardless of stroke.
JackSockIsTheBest
Professional
I have been using the 2016 one since 2017 and going to buy the 2019 pretty soon but with the 2016 one I have a strong wrist & I have never had arm problems, just my feet
Billy Baseline
New User
Hi all,
Any advice here would be very, very much appreciated - thanks in advance.
As background, I played a lot of tennis between the ages of 5 and 15. I stopped playing altogether around the age of 18. At that time (this was in the 90's) I was using Donnay Ultimate Pro and Donnay Academy Pro rackets.
Now in my early 40s, I felt the urge to pick up the rackets again. I grabbed the Ultimate Pro and hit a few balls - 5 hours split across 1 week, all good. With a renewed interest and seeing all the advancements in racket tech, I decided it was high time I bought myself a new racket.
So, got researching and as a base-liner with a semi-western top-spin forehand, I bought myself a Babolat PA. The store only had the PA Team in stock (weight 285g unstrung, balance 7pts HL, 71 RA) and got it strung with Babolat RPM Team (co-polyester) at 55Ib.
I got home and weighed it stung (301g), added dampener (303g), and 2 thin over-grips at 5g each (313g) to get the handle size up to 3 (they only had 2/US 4 and quarter in stock).
Took to the court. Hit some balls. Loved how light it was, loved the spin and how hard I could smack it and it always stayed in court (if a little short). Straight after playing, I could feel arm pain. Forearm, elbow, upper arm. The throbbing died down, but wow, it was sore. Even felt sore and weak picking up that well deserved glass of beer!
Took to the internet. Read and watched loads on vibration, shock absorbing and adding weight. Weighed the old Donnay Ultimate Pro I've always known - comes in at exactly 350g. Never once felt pain with it and knowing what I know now, it must be a brilliant shock/vibration absorber (the trouble is, I've always been pretty inconsistent with it and had a feeling that I had to hold back the power when going for shots for fear of hitting the back wall!).
So anyway, a big difference from what I've previously played with. I headed out and bought Babolat tungsten balancing tape. Added a total of 12g split evenly (4 x 3g) at 3 and 9 o'clock on the hoop. Racked now weighing 325g. Hit a few balls. It's much better on the arm, but still not great. Not ideal. Had to stop after 20 mins. Still, this could be pain lingering from the previous session only 3 days before. Perhaps I just need to rest it longer.
Well anyway, here I am. This seems to be the best tennis forum on the web. Anyone got any advice? Should I try to add weight to the handle in addition to (or even instead of) the hoop? Will this help absorb vibration more? Think it's to do with the racket stiffness of 71RA (I can't find anything on Donnay Ultimate Pro stiffness to compare what I had)? Were my old Donnay rackets stiff? Or is it the strings?
Again, any thoughts or sound advice from those in the know would be very much appreciated.
Any advice here would be very, very much appreciated - thanks in advance.
As background, I played a lot of tennis between the ages of 5 and 15. I stopped playing altogether around the age of 18. At that time (this was in the 90's) I was using Donnay Ultimate Pro and Donnay Academy Pro rackets.
Now in my early 40s, I felt the urge to pick up the rackets again. I grabbed the Ultimate Pro and hit a few balls - 5 hours split across 1 week, all good. With a renewed interest and seeing all the advancements in racket tech, I decided it was high time I bought myself a new racket.
So, got researching and as a base-liner with a semi-western top-spin forehand, I bought myself a Babolat PA. The store only had the PA Team in stock (weight 285g unstrung, balance 7pts HL, 71 RA) and got it strung with Babolat RPM Team (co-polyester) at 55Ib.
I got home and weighed it stung (301g), added dampener (303g), and 2 thin over-grips at 5g each (313g) to get the handle size up to 3 (they only had 2/US 4 and quarter in stock).
Took to the court. Hit some balls. Loved how light it was, loved the spin and how hard I could smack it and it always stayed in court (if a little short). Straight after playing, I could feel arm pain. Forearm, elbow, upper arm. The throbbing died down, but wow, it was sore. Even felt sore and weak picking up that well deserved glass of beer!
Took to the internet. Read and watched loads on vibration, shock absorbing and adding weight. Weighed the old Donnay Ultimate Pro I've always known - comes in at exactly 350g. Never once felt pain with it and knowing what I know now, it must be a brilliant shock/vibration absorber (the trouble is, I've always been pretty inconsistent with it and had a feeling that I had to hold back the power when going for shots for fear of hitting the back wall!).
So anyway, a big difference from what I've previously played with. I headed out and bought Babolat tungsten balancing tape. Added a total of 12g split evenly (4 x 3g) at 3 and 9 o'clock on the hoop. Racked now weighing 325g. Hit a few balls. It's much better on the arm, but still not great. Not ideal. Had to stop after 20 mins. Still, this could be pain lingering from the previous session only 3 days before. Perhaps I just need to rest it longer.
Well anyway, here I am. This seems to be the best tennis forum on the web. Anyone got any advice? Should I try to add weight to the handle in addition to (or even instead of) the hoop? Will this help absorb vibration more? Think it's to do with the racket stiffness of 71RA (I can't find anything on Donnay Ultimate Pro stiffness to compare what I had)? Were my old Donnay rackets stiff? Or is it the strings?
Again, any thoughts or sound advice from those in the know would be very much appreciated.
I tried a softer string on the PA but the pain only slightly improved, did not go away.
It went away only when I switched rackets (using the Clash currently).
Billy Baseline
New User
Thanks for the info guys.
naturallight
Semi-Pro
I demoed the 2019 Pure Aero against the 2020 Ezone 100. The Ezone felt a little softer overall. Vibration on the PA was minimal, but it did feel like a more raw frame.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Give these things a try. I found great success doing this with APD and PA.
1/ Put Blu-Tack in the handle! At least 10 grams.
2/ Get rid of the RPM Blast. Try something like Solinco Hyper-G or Volkl Cyclone (pref. Yellow, Orange, Pink colours) at no more than 52lbs. Try a full bed first and if that still feels a bit stiff, try a hybrid with Hyper-G in the mains and a slippery round Poly in the crosses (or a thick Synthetic Gut strung a few lbs tighter)
3/ You could also try full bed at much lower tension - say low 40lbs range - but it might become too hard to control the depth of shot unless you use heavy topspin.
4/ Make sure you are using a Syntec Pro grip and a decent overgrip (eg. Tourna Grip or Yonex Super)
Billy Baseline
New User
Thanks for your thoughts. Already put 12g Tungsten on the hoop, so a bit head heavy. Might add 10g Blue Tack to handle as you suggest - that should help to counterbalance anyway.
BBender716
Semi-Pro
What are the thoughts on the Tour vs normal PA 2019 then? Just picked one up and was debating whether to opt for the lighter stick or the added stability. For background, I'm used to playing with a Blade or TF40
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Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
pastashop42
Rookie
Many lighter racquets are made relatively head-heavy. For example, PS85 is over 360g and has a balance point around 30.5 cm. A newer Blade will have a comparable or even higher swingweight at less than 320g weight.
The consequence of that is that the recoil weight is low and, because the recoil essentially what jerks the racquet handle as a reaction force after striking the ball, can result in more shock to the hand / arm.
That’s why to counter this and increase comfort, you can simply add weight below the balance point of the racquet. Many people do this with lead tape under the grip, weight inside the handle, or lead tape just above the grip.
If the weight is an elastomer (rubber, silicone, putty), as is commonly done for NVH management in vehicles, it also changes the acoustic range of vibrations to contribute to the sensation of comfort.
The consequence of that is that the recoil weight is low and, because the recoil essentially what jerks the racquet handle as a reaction force after striking the ball, can result in more shock to the hand / arm.
That’s why to counter this and increase comfort, you can simply add weight below the balance point of the racquet. Many people do this with lead tape under the grip, weight inside the handle, or lead tape just above the grip.
If the weight is an elastomer (rubber, silicone, putty), as is commonly done for NVH management in vehicles, it also changes the acoustic range of vibrations to contribute to the sensation of comfort.
weelie
Professional
I don’t do Babolats, as they are too stiff for me. Only hit with one a couple hits for fun now. There way too many reasons/risks for not to be ready play again the following day, so I want to keep my elbow as healthy as I can.
But my solution to my elbow issues 3years back was: bought a lightweight racket, RA max 63, added a gel grip and 50g of blu tack (or sorbothane grip), larger headsize (102 not 98), Crossfire Zx instead of poly strings (29kg & 20kg hybrid instead of 26kg), an overgrip or two. Headlight definitely is more comfortable, I feel, so from the start I had no lead in the hoop (later added a little). Anyway, my Head Graphene S rackets are about 350g.
Recently I bought a Clash tour, but have not found the string setup to make it controllable, so I’ve actually now been playing an old Dunlop m3.0 (pretty low power) now, it weighed 363g last I took it to scales. Compated to the 102 ultra-hl Head S... I can actually hit slices and decent volleys now!
Karma Tennis
Legend
The racquet alone cannot be too stiff for any player. It is a combination of the racquet and the string configuation that dictates the stiffness. What strings were you using in the Babolat racquet? Did you try Natural Gut?
weelie
Professional
I have not looked into gut much, as I feel gut is expensive (YMMV). I've only played it in hybrids, hitting with RF97 couple of years ago. In the 80s and 90s I only played with nylon, in the past 5 years I've mainly hit all poly, and past year or two only Kevlar/Zyex hybrid (my current choice for comfort and spin). Demos on rackets, well, those have all had polys on them. The Kevlar/Zyex lasts probably like 60-80h of play for me before the kevlar pops. I would have no idea how tight to string gut if I had a Babolat PA, which I assume would need quite a bit of taming for my liking.
I can understand the logic of it being 50% string and 50% racket ...and 50% technique and 50% age and genetics and all that. But still, I feel, no point in choosing a stiff racket if you have arm issues (I don't lust after Babolats either). What is too stiff to you or me will of course vary, and written specs are not the only factor in what is stiff and what not. Racket alone with the no strings is of course does not feel that stiff or heavy, as you miss the ball.
The latest Babolat frame I was considering buying was the Pure Strike original some 4-5 years go. I chose Dunlop (F3.0 and M3.0 is what I bought) instead, as to me they hit better (all tested rackets were poly or poly hybrid). But I was not replying to the original Babolat question per se, I was replying to Billy Baseline, who joined this thread later.
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Billy Baseline
New User
Thanks weelie, Karma Tennis and everyone else who replied.
As an update, after giving my arm a rest for 1 week, I hit a few balls today for an hour with my now modified Babolat Pure Aero Team.
Here's the full modification and weight journey - unstrung 285, strung 301, dampener 303, 2x over grip 313, tungsten on the hoop 325 and now cotton wool packed with tungsten in the handle just under the cap = 331g.
The great news
No arm pain at all - that's the main thing
Much more powerful serve
Stability on the volley
Incredible backhand slice spin - had crazy side spin, never experienced anything like it in my life, almost like a table tennis shot
The not so great news
Top spin forehand was terribly inconsistent - the power suddenly ramped up here and there out of the blue on many occasions. At those times I'm looking at the handle thinking 'mmm, did I change the angle of my grip there?' I hadn't of course, but the result made me question it because we're talking going for a winner...and hitting the back wall...and high up on it! What the heck?
Don't know about you guys, but once I've done that, the confidence in the stroke goes and I start really holding back on the power instead of going for winners.
As an update, after giving my arm a rest for 1 week, I hit a few balls today for an hour with my now modified Babolat Pure Aero Team.
Here's the full modification and weight journey - unstrung 285, strung 301, dampener 303, 2x over grip 313, tungsten on the hoop 325 and now cotton wool packed with tungsten in the handle just under the cap = 331g.
The great news
No arm pain at all - that's the main thing
Much more powerful serve
Stability on the volley
Incredible backhand slice spin - had crazy side spin, never experienced anything like it in my life, almost like a table tennis shot
The not so great news
Top spin forehand was terribly inconsistent - the power suddenly ramped up here and there out of the blue on many occasions. At those times I'm looking at the handle thinking 'mmm, did I change the angle of my grip there?' I hadn't of course, but the result made me question it because we're talking going for a winner...and hitting the back wall...and high up on it! What the heck?
Don't know about you guys, but once I've done that, the confidence in the stroke goes and I start really holding back on the power instead of going for winners.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
So 12g on the hoop and 6g in the handle; sounds like although you've achieved the primary objective of stability/arm pain reduction, you're getting into Nadal territory, and the racquet head is going to come through whether you want it to or not. Assuming that you're happy with the current static weight you could perhaps try taking 6g from the head and putting it in the handle; if this results in a return to arm aggravation then return lead to the head, or perhaps the throat etc. - advice from a better customiser than me would be useful here - incrementally to hopefully find a happy medium.
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Karma Tennis
Legend
Yep. As usual, some really good advice from jmac. Move more of the weight into the handle and see how you go. The other option is to try and distribute the weight around the hoop more. Most of my Babalot customisations have been with the 300g models so I have rarely put any extra mass on the hoop. I tested all sorts of combinations, but kept coming back to leaving the hoop alone and packing weight into the handle. It is quite easy to get the stock 300g stick up to the high 340s.
I had major problems with the new PA. But almost exclusively when I served. I damaged the pronator teres muscle, a small stabilizing band from the elbow that runs diagonally across the forearm.
To be fair, I still need to run a control experiment when my arm is better, which it is, but we're on lockdown. I need to test my serve on a softer racket to see if it's my technique.
I'm almost certain that my inability to get good racket head drop on my serve and create an elastic whip action is putting undue stress on my forearm.
To be fair, I still need to run a control experiment when my arm is better, which it is, but we're on lockdown. I need to test my serve on a softer racket to see if it's my technique.
I'm almost certain that my inability to get good racket head drop on my serve and create an elastic whip action is putting undue stress on my forearm.
Ryebread
Hall of Fame
Who has transitioned or tried to transition to the 2019 Aero from something in the "low flex" world, like a Blade v7 or Gravity?
How did it go?
I liked my test drive with the 2019 Aero.
groundies and serve were wonderful.
feel was good too.
I love the maneuverable spec - and the surprising stability that goes with it!
I realize that the 2019 is more "comfy" than the previous model.
But I'm a little concerned though, about playing 5x a week with it. I know the 67 ra is masked by some nice tech.
The pure strike stiffness, that is masked very well too.
they are still stiff. even if you don't feel it. the numbers do not lie, right?
How did it go?
I liked my test drive with the 2019 Aero.
groundies and serve were wonderful.
feel was good too.
I love the maneuverable spec - and the surprising stability that goes with it!
I realize that the 2019 is more "comfy" than the previous model.
But I'm a little concerned though, about playing 5x a week with it. I know the 67 ra is masked by some nice tech.
The pure strike stiffness, that is masked very well too.
they are still stiff. even if you don't feel it. the numbers do not lie, right?
you may have the arm to handle those racquets, which would be great. They do give you a lot of power and stability in a maneuverable frame. I loved serving with the 2019 Pure Aero. But that and the Strike eventually caught up with me. I had general arm soreness, which was tolerable, and then I damaged my protator teres muscle in the forearm, a stabilizer, while serving.
marceloriosfan
Rookie
Played with the Pure Aero Tour (and 2016 PAT version before that and APD before that) and never had arm pain. Played with full bed RPM high 40s or low 50s depending on conditions. I hit 2-4 times per week.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
There isn't a racket out there that is so arm unfriendly that everyone that uses it gets TE.
So of course there will be people using PA 2019 without arm issues. But that isn't proof that it will be arm friendly for anyone else.
I have sensitive tendons and crap technique and any overuse with polyester (even in a hybrid) can set off TE/GE. I won't touch a racket over 64 RA to save my life. And I'm pretty much at the ByeByePoly stage of my life as every experiment with poly always gets me into the same problem.
So of course there will be people using PA 2019 without arm issues. But that isn't proof that it will be arm friendly for anyone else.
I have sensitive tendons and crap technique and any overuse with polyester (even in a hybrid) can set off TE/GE. I won't touch a racket over 64 RA to save my life. And I'm pretty much at the ByeByePoly stage of my life as every experiment with poly always gets me into the same problem.
I'm almost in the same boat in terms of RA. However, I have tried a couple of the Head G360+ racquets at 65 and so far they are pretty easy on the arm. I also stay under 190 on the stiffness meter at TWU for strings. Generally that's worked for me.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
This is all technique. I’d get a coach who knows his stuff and teaches you how to move/set up to hit and ensures you have a proper swing path for topspin. Literally none of this is the racquet‘s fault. The main cue here is your last sentence. Whenever I read someone say that, I know they either have a flat swing path (not a great fit for the Bab) or more likely, an inconsistent one.
I’ve been using the PA19 for weeks now and have had no arm pain at all. It’s a comfortable frame for what it is. That said, it sounds like you are getting your strokes back and thats where things can go badly with stiffer frames due to inconsistent technique. The Prince Ripstick would be a safer option for you and you won’t lose power.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Hardest fix for arm problems is re-wiring motor pathways. Best fix for sure, but easily the hardest.
