Can't hit mini tennis forehand

[ByeByePoly]

What was the average rally count?

In the 100s ... it would be more but I can't be held responsible for this 33 year old ex-college players lack of endurance.

 

[mad dog1]

"but back to mini, i’ve had anyone convincingly explain to me why mini is stupid/not valuable... 100% of the time it’s “I can’t do it, so it’s stupid”. "

You must have a hearing problem. I have told you repeatedly that I am magnificent at mini ... and it's stupid. I minied yesterday with that ex-college player I have mentioned. There is no other way to describe my mini skills other than magnificent. It was so easy it started to get boring ... so I added a twist for my entertainment. When the impulse hit me ... I would randomly just hit the ball down on my side and land it right inside opponents service line. All in rhythm ... thing of beauty ... one might say ... wait for it .... magnificent.

So now you have one ... no longer 100%.

Wow. You had another dream? Were any TT members present in this dream to witness this magnificent mini tennis?

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I've taken 4 lessons in my life...with 4 different instructors. None started with mini tennis. All started with leisurely baseline hitting. No one ever said i should work on mini tennis to improve. Every "3.5" i played in sectionals singles wanted to do mini as a warm up. Its something i will never do unless someone asks me to. I don't want to brag so I'll leave my performance against these mini gurus out of it.

you gotta do what works best for you... don't let us nobodies dictate how you want to to learn to play tennis. clearly you're someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[mad dog1]

you gotta do what works best for you... don't let us nobodies dictate how you want to to learn to play tennis. clearly you're someone who knows what they are doing.

Or maybe he’s just someone who thinks he knows what he’s doing.

 

[Fintft]

You can swing with the same swing speed in mini tennis than from the baseline.

Yeah but not hitting through the ball on the FH, but more brushing it off/more TS, much more then my regular flatish FH.

 

[ByeByePoly]

another drill we do is to setup a target like 3ft from the net 1ft from singles sideline and do cc mini.
first one to hit the target 3 times wins.
repeat for fh/bh side.


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That actually sounds like a fun drill. When I still had my wheels, my buddies knew if they dropped shot near a side line ... it needed to be good because I was good at the sharp touch angle cc toward opposite sideline that barely cleared the net (particularly off FH side ... one of the few times I hit FH slice/open face). But this is an example of why I think "fundamentals/strokes" aren't a generic thing across players. We hit different shots (therefore different strokes) from different parts of the court. Also ... we all hit different shots from each other from different parts of the court. I don't hit spinny cc shots from inside the service line ... cc or otherwise. I might hit enough spin hitting from way below the net to keep a deeper shot from going long, but if I am hitting really short angles from close to the net it's touch angles. Some with a sw or western grip go to shot from there might very well be great rhs and dipper to same targets. Never been required for me on those "bad opponent droppers" ... the touch angle isn't something they can run down.

I think another example of where the idea "mini strokes are fundamentals for all players" breaks down is different styles from the baseline. That was the point of my dream. Take my FH ... I hit eastern, flattish ... can actually produce good topspin when I call it up (cc fh passing shot). So for me ... that is my "baseline fundamental" ... if I'm trying to use that fundamental in mini tennis. I don't hit spinny FHs from the baseline, so any mini or drill of "fh spinny" isn't a test of my stroke quality. For me to honor my baseline fundamentals in MY mini ... I need to hit flattish ... so lower over the net from those close quarters. Actually ... my fundamental often from there is a touch angle which has nothing to do with my full BL stroke. Bottom line is if you are grading mini by the ability to "hit spinny shots from point blank range", the 3.5 player that hits sw grip and every single shot spinny just over the net with no ability to hit small targets or flatten out a shot ... WILL LIKELY BE BETTER AT THAT SPINNY GRADE. Now take that 3.5 (sorry 3.5s ... I just needed a number to make my point) and change the grading. Let's do mini ... and the contest is when mini ... we can hit any shot, any touch, and angle, any dropper, any slice ... that spinny 3.5er grade went into the cr@pper. But the spinny 3.5ers come and say "you just can't do it". Nope ... I can hit a spinny FH in mini ... and do ... and then never once hit that from the baseline.

Ironically ... I love mini for the 2hbh. Not as a warm-up ... but I will drill my 2hbh anytime ... warm-up or otherwise. I hit a bigger topspin variety from the 2hbh ... flat drive all the way to off pace spinny. So when I do this "point blank spinny mini" ... in that case, it does match my baseline fundamentals. CC 2hbh mini drill ... sign me up ... I dropped the lhfhs ... I have time for a new drill ).

So hopefully this is an example of making the argument/debate on the merits. We are competitive tennis players ... and dudes ... we aren't going to agree on everything (who am I kidding ... we won't agree on anything).

IMO ... we don't all have the same tennis fundamentals. Fundamentals are defined by a player's shots from different locations in the court, grips, amount of spin from different situations and court locations, how much touch a player plays with, etc. I realize it would be an opportunity for a 3.5 spinny player to give my friend that hit dead flat on both wings and played 5.0 that his mini spinny was no good. But their fun would come to a quick end if they played him a set.

One other thought. For those that have never hit flattish ... we learn to control/vary rhs because we aren't relying on topspin to hit targets. I can hit that control FH (not bunt ... full swing but slower) just over the net and stay inside the opponents service line. That is how I play ... my FH fundamental ... so "spinny need not apply".

 

[mad dog1]

That actually sounds like a fun drill. When I still had my wheels, my buddies knew if they dropped shot near a side line ... it needed to be good because I was good at the sharp touch angle cc toward opposite sideline that barely cleared the net (particularly off FH side ... one of the few times I hit FH slice/open face). But this is an example of why I think "fundamentals/strokes" aren't a generic thing across players. We hit different shots (therefore different strokes) from different parts of the court. Also ... we all hit different shots from each other from different parts of the court. I don't hit spinny cc shots from inside the service line ... cc or otherwise. I might hit enough spin hitting from way below the net to keep a deeper shot from going long, but if I am hitting really short angles from close to the net it's touch angles. Some with a sw or western grip go to shot from there might very well be great rhs and dipper to same targets. Never been required for me on those "bad opponent droppers" ... the touch angle isn't something they can run down.

I think another example of where the idea "mini strokes are fundamentals for all players" breaks down is different styles from the baseline. That was the point of my dream. Take my FH ... I hit eastern, flattish ... can actually produce good topspin when I call it up (cc fh passing shot). So for me ... that is my "baseline fundamental" ... if I'm trying to use that fundamental in mini tennis. I don't hit spinny FHs from the baseline, so any mini or drill of "fh spinny" isn't a test of my stroke quality. For me to honor my baseline fundamentals in MY mini ... I need to hit flattish ... so lower over the net from those close quarters. Actually ... my fundamental often from there is a touch angle which has nothing to do with my full BL stroke. Bottom line is if you are grading mini by the ability to "hit spinny shots from point blank range", the 3.5 player that hits sw grip and every single shot spinny just over the net with no ability to hit small targets or flatten out a shot ... WILL LIKELY BE BETTER AT THAT SPINNY GRADE. Now take that 3.5 (sorry 3.5s ... I just needed a number to make my point) and change the grading. Let's do mini ... and the contest is when mini ... we can hit any shot, any touch, and angle, any dropper, any slice ... that spinny 3.5er grade went into the cr@pper. But the spinny 3.5ers come and say "you just can't do it". Nope ... I can hit a spinny FH in mini ... and do ... and then never once hit that from the baseline.

Ironically ... I love mini for the 2hbh. Not as a warm-up ... but I will drill my 2hbh anytime ... warm-up or otherwise. I hit a bigger topspin variety from the 2hbh ... flat drive all the way to off pace spinny. So when I do this "point blank spinny mini" ... in that case, it does match my baseline fundamentals. CC 2hbh mini drill ... sign me up ... I dropped the lhfhs ... I have time for a new drill ).

So hopefully this is an example of making the argument/debate on the merits. We are competitive tennis players ... and dudes ... we aren't going to agree on everything (who am I kidding ... we won't agree on anything).

IMO ... we don't all have the same tennis fundamentals. Fundamentals are defined by a player's shots from different locations in the court, grips, amount of spin from different situations and court locations, how much touch a player plays with, etc. I realize it would be an opportunity for a 3.5 spinny player to give my friend that hit dead flat on both wings and played 5.0 that his mini spinny was no good. But their fun would come to a quick end if they played him a set.

One other thought. For those that have never hit flattish ... we learn to control/vary rhs because we aren't relying on topspin to hit targets. I can hit that control FH (not bunt ... full swing but slower) just over the net and stay inside the opponents service line. That is how I play ... my FH fundamental ... so "spinny need not apply".

TLDR

 

[ByeByePoly]

Wow. You had another dream? Were any TT members present in this dream to witness this magnificent mini tennis?

You don't trust me? Do I strike you as someone that traffics in hyperbole and fantasy?

 

[ByeByePoly]

TLDR

Wasn't for you.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Or maybe he’s just someone who thinks he knows what he’s doing.

to be fair, i think i know what i'm doing all the time,.. but fortunately i surround myself with people better than me, and they help me realize, daily, that i don't always know what i'm doing.

 

[mcs1970]

A drill that emphasizes what mini tennis is trying to teach, that I've found especially beneficial, is starting at the service box like everyone does, rallying till you feel it's enough, then moving one step back, and rinse and repeat till you get to the baseline (of course it's not mini tennis at that point), and then come forward in again one step at a time til you get to the original mini tennis position. It takes a lot of time, and you have to find a partner who sees the benefit in this too and is willing to give up a day of hitting to just work on drills like you want to.

This is similar to a drill Tomasz has for the serve where he starts off just outside the service box and wants you to serve in the box and then move out one step at a time till you get back to the baseline.

Whenever I have found a partner willing to work with me on this, it's helped me a lot. OTOH, if I just do a normal mini tennis drill and then move back immediately to the baseline, I have not found the same benefits, as the muscle memory just is not enough for a lower level player like me, and I fall back much quicker into bad habits wrt not brushing up correctly on the ball.

 

[mad dog1]

Wasn't for you.

TLDR

 

[mad dog1]

to be fair, i think i know what i'm doing all the time,.. but fortunately i surround myself with people better than me, and they help me realize, daily, that i don't always know what i'm doing.

Smart man. But you clearly have some self awareness which is something some people lack. If you thought you were the best, you’d have no one to surround yourself with.

 

[dman72]

you gotta do what works best for you... don't let us nobodies dictate how you want to to learn to play tennis. clearly you're someone who knows what they are doing.

Well just going by what 5.0 instructors emphasize probably isn't a bad idea based on the apparent importance of utr ntrp hierarchy.

 

[J011yroger]

another drill we do is to setup a target like 3ft from the net 1ft from singles sideline and do cc mini.
first one to hit the target 3 times wins.
repeat for fh/bh side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We stand in the doubles alleys and try to angle each other into the curtain.

J

 

[ByeByePoly]

Why some need mini

 

[Pete Player]

I find mini-tennis good warm up, cause I do other stick/club sports too. It sort of gets you familiar with the equipment and addjusted for tennis. Bounce and timing are a big factor, which gets stranded changing from sport to another on the fly.

In practice we allways start with basic mini-tennis for few minutes before moving into the back. Usually, if volleys are not on the agenda, we just rally mini-tennis for a couple rallies of 20 to 40 shots in the beginning.


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[Morch Us]

I am really confused now. If I am your opponent in a match, I definitely would be the first to ask, "lets just start the set".

I don't hit spinny cc shots from inside the service line

I hit eastern, flattish ... can actually produce good topspin when I call it up (cc fh passing shot)

For me to honor my baseline fundamentals in MY mini ... I need to hit flattish ... so lower over the net from those close quarters. Actually ... my fundamental often from there is a touch angle which has nothing to do with my full BL stroke

 

[ByeByePoly]

I am really confused now. If I am your opponent in a match, I definitely would be the first to ask, "lets just start the set".

No baseline warm-up? Ouch ... I overdid it ... my plan backfired.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

What was the average rally count?

Counting the feed? One.

 

[Wise one]

This is a bit embarrassing, but I have a lot of trouble with my forehand in mini tennis. Once I move back I can do pretty much anything with it and hit well on the run, can hit extremely hard, with angles, etc. Even while I'm playing if I get a short ball around the service line I can kill it or angle it off. For some reason though during the warm up I can't hit a mini tennis forehand to save my life.

If I try to hit it normal I hit it up high and it lands past the service line around no man's land. When I try to take something off it has nothing behind it and goes into the net or just past it. My 2 handed backhand is my weaker shot, but I can hit it in the mini tennis warm up with no problem. It sounds dumb, but it really hurts my confidence to start a match by missing so often in the warm up and I got put on a bad court in a clinic because the pro walking by thought I can't play when he saw my mini tennis forehand.

How are you supposed to hit just a nice rally ball back within the service line? All of my shots are too deep or too shallow

Probably your western grip. Get rid of it!

 

[rrortiz5]

Was someone talking about the big 4 not doing mini-tennis?

 

[J011yroger]

Was someone talking about the big 4 not doing mini-tennis?

Who's that jabroni hitting with him? Some bozo from tri-level nationals?

J

 

[ByeByePoly]

Was someone talking about the big 4 not doing mini-tennis?

Midi ... I called it.

 

[dman72]

Was someone talking about the big 4 not doing mini-tennis?

Is that a match warm up or a practice session?

It's a practice session. The point I have been making all along (largely this part has been ignored conveniently by the "you suck"ers) was that I find WARMING UP with mini-tennis to have few benefits. Especially with limited time. That video shows a grand total of 25 seconds of mini tennis in a 14 minute practice session. So how much mini tennis makes sense in a 5-7 minute warm up? Like 10 seconds?

 

[mad dog1]

Is that a match warm up or a practice session?

It's a practice session. The point I have been making all along (largely this part has been ignored conveniently by the "you suck"ers) was that I find WARMING UP with mini-tennis to have few benefits. Especially with limited time. That video shows a grand total of 25 seconds of mini tennis in a 14 minute practice session. So how much mini tennis makes sense in a 5-7 minute warm up? Like 10 seconds?

When pros arrive at the court for a match, they have already stretched and warmed up for an hour or so prior to match. If you arrive at the court for a match and have already gone through an independent warm up, then yes, mini tennis isn’t the best use of the 5-7 minute warm up.

 

[dman72]

When pros arrive at the court for a match, they have already stretched and warmed up for an hour or so prior to match. If you arrive at the court for a match and have already gone through an independent warm up, then yes, mini tennis isn’t the best use of the 5-7 minute warm up.

So adults should only be hitting a ball back and forth 20-40 feet (short court) to warm up because their cold bodies can't handle hitting it 60-80 feet (full court). That 3 minutes of hitting the ball 40 fewer feet could be the difference between a catastrophic hamstring tear or forearm rupture and a healthy match. Better safe than sorry I guess.

At first I thought it was because it made you perform better stroke wise during the match,according to some people here.

My personal feeling is that I actually feel more warmed up when I've actually HIT the ball for 3 minutes, and not spent 3 minutes brushing it over the net trying to achieve maximum string scrape-age.

 

[ByeByePoly]

So adults should only be hitting a ball back and forth 20-40 feet (short court) to warm up because their cold bodies can't handle hitting it 60-80 feet (full court). That 3 minutes of hitting the ball 40 fewer feet could be the difference between a catastrophic hamstring tear or forearm rupture and a healthy match. Better safe than sorry I guess.

At first I thought it was because it made you perform better stroke wise during the match,according to some people here.

My personal feeling is that I actually feel more warmed up when I've actually HIT the ball for 3 minutes, and not spent 3 minutes brushing it over the net trying to achieve maximum string scrape-age.

A 10 minute debate here about mini tennis would be a better warm-up than actual mini tennis. We need some mini mini debate before we go full blood sport mini. Someone is going to get hurt ... I already have Kindle finger.

 

[Fintft]

A drill that emphasizes what mini tennis is trying to teach, that I've found especially beneficial, is starting at the service box like everyone does, rallying till you feel it's enough, then moving one step back, and rinse and repeat till you get to the baseline (of course it's not mini tennis at that point), and then come forward in again one step at a time til you get to the original mini tennis position. It takes a lot of time, and you have to find a partner who sees the benefit in this too and is willing to give up a day of hitting to just work on drills like you want to.

This is similar to a drill Tomasz has for the serve where he starts off just outside the service box and wants you to serve in the box and then move out one step at a time till you get back to the baseline.

Whenever I have found a partner willing to work with me on this, it's helped me a lot. OTOH, if I just do a normal mini tennis drill and then move back immediately to the baseline, I have not found the same benefits, as the muscle memory just is not enough for a lower level player like me, and I fall back much quicker into bad habits wrt not brushing up correctly on the ball.

Yeah my coach used this Sunday with me, 2 distances for mini-tennis, then the baseline.