Diego Schwartzman: RAFAEL NADAL is so hard to play because he's so aggressive

[Deleted member 716271]

Can you believe Chico loved that quote.

I miss that guy

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Schwartzman might have meant "relentless", not that Rafa's style is aggressive in an offensive sense, which it obviously is not.

 

[Gazelle]

Lol lucky Nadal got this dwarf to play and Federer has the mighty Fuscovic waiting for him.

What does Federer have to do with this thread??

 

[Sysyphus]

I miss that guy

hehe, for me it's enough that most his oeuvre is still available for appreciation without the risk of him still busting into every other thread to derail it into 'unbelievable disrespect'.

 

[vex]

True dat, but my point isn't that Fed's opinions are the word of God, but more to show that even the pros describe things slightly differently between themselves.

But yes, when anyone describes any top 50 player as a full-on moonballer, pusher, retriever or whatever, it's at best a gross exaggeration or more likely just trolling.

Nadal puts an extreme amount of work on his groundstrokes, Djokovic hugs the baseline and when at his best he dictates basically everyone, and even Murray puts more pressure on his opponent than he's given credit for.

Could not agree with this take more.

 

[vex]

Schwartzman might have meant "relentless", not that Rafa's style is aggressive in an offensive sense, which it obviously is not.

I think Rafa is aggressive. Not all aggressive styles look alike. Rafa hits a fucckton of winners for a reason

 

[Deleted member 716271]

hehe, for me it's enough that most his oeuvre is still available for appreciation without the risk of him still busting into every other thread to derail thread into 'unbelievable disrespect'.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

I think Rafa is aggressive. Not all aggressive styles look alike. Rafa hits a fucckton of winners for a reason

True, I think his court positioning and conservative high spin style are defensive though which is the hallmark of his overall game. He does have more of a "weapon" in his forehand when he unleashes than Novak for example. I guess it's "controlled" aggression to use the spin to wear someone down. But it doesn't have the same feel of the opponent being blitzed as when Roger in particular or even Novak are on, because he is more methodical and patient. This means he is also more prone to getting bullied off the court than the other 2.

 

[GabeT]

On what it's like to face the Spaniard, Schwartzmann said: "I think he's really aggressive every time. He can play four hours aggressive."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/907715/Rafael-Nadal-Australian-Open-2018-Diego-Schwartzmann

Some experts from TTW please inform this guy that Nadal is a defensive pusher. It's amazing how some of these pros think that grinding, moonballing (which Fed used to struggle against for 10 years) is aggressive tennis! Don't they ever read TTW threads?

So true. So much crappy analysis in this forum.

 

[vanioMan]

He's not a pusher who plays puffy moonballs obviously, but the boring thing about trying to shut down discussion by appealing to a single quote by a pro is that it's often quite easy to find examples of players giving differing opinions. Here's one of Nadal's fellow ATGs:

“But you can work on everything and the best players can play offensive and defensive. I guess Rafa [Nadal] and Andy have more the defensive DNA: they really don’t want to miss but today they’re great attacking players, some of the best in the game. And the same for me and Novak, we’re more attacking players but we’ve also gotten very good at defence.”
​

Seems a fairly balanced recap. In the end it's just down to how you wanna define words. Does Nadal put an incredible amount of work on nearly every ball, making it incredibly uncomfortable for his opponent? Yes, absolutely. When compared to the breadth of the tour, is he a high-risk kind of player who forces the issue and uses an aggressive court positioning? No. His greatest strength is a consistent and controlled kind of suffocation, not a blitzing attack.

This is why I said I believe there's a difference between playing aggressive and attacking tennis. Sure, Rafa might not play attacking tennis too often, but his game is very aggressive. It's not just about being inside the baseline and going for winners on each and every shot. There's much more to it, as you mentioned.

 

[zagor]

I reckon Nadal's rally ball looks aggressive to Frodo given that it bounces over his head.

Joking aside, it's clear Nadal has been playing much more aggressive from the baseline since teaming up with Moya, it's fairly obvious to see even if you've sporadically watched his matches. Returning serve from the VIP box notwithstanding.

 

[haqq777]

Rafa is aggressive, I think the better way to say it is that he more aggressive than he was in the past. This is what is leading to his longevity, he no longer is in his peak or prime for that matter, he cannot run around like a Jack Rabbit with boundless energy after years and years of wear and tear on his body. His game had more aggression in it than in the past. The problem for Nadal is, his aggressive game matches up poorly to Federer's aggressive game, nobody can match Federer for a sustainable period of time with a high level of aggression, with the possible exception of Kyrgios, and even that is debatable. Nadal's legs and defensive and counter strikes were a big part of his game with Federer in the past, in his decline state, while his aggression works well on others, Federer eats it up. Nobody beats aggressive players more than Federer.

Good post as always - I am curious to see if Nadal will be able to solve the Roger dilemma circa 2017.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Good post as always - I am curious to see if Nadal will be able to solve the Roger dilemma circa 2017.

Lets go over the dilemma waiting for Nadal, should be face Federer in the final shall we?

Nadal's go to A game simply does not work anymore against Federer, Fed is now completely comfortable coming over the ball, and not only that, but with the larger head, he isn't no worried as much about impeccable timing as he was in the past, he now has a much higher margin for error and is able to generate a lot more power. So, what does this mean? It means that now Federer can step in and take more balls on the rise, and hit them harder and flatter, both DTL and CC...this effectively takes time away from Rafa, who while has been instructed to stay aggressive gives up real estate, by taking a step back to have time to get to the ball, Federer effectively moves in and starts his attack.

The neutral rally ball from Nadal, now does not work. He cannot just hit to the backhand when in trouble to restart the point, Federer now has options to smack winners DTL off it. This has hurt Nadal a lot, and given Federer a lot of winners on his backhand side.

Nadal's aggressive game plays into Federer's hands, the faster the better, Nadal's main strength was his physicality, he has lost foot speed and his court coverage has diminished. This now means that Federer no longer needs to paint the lines to get the ball past Nadal, he has been playing and hitting numerous clean winners well within the court with plenty of space, and effortlessly getting it past Nadal.

Federer's serving has gotten better and better, which means, Nadal is getting less play in the return games than he did in the past. Nadal attack the Federer forehand did not work, he was getting burned. Nadal tried to hurt Federer with slice, the same way he used it on Djokovic, Federer ate those slices up with half volleys, and finished points at the net.

 

[TennisFan3]

It is a myth that Nadal is not aggressive. You don't win 16 slams by being defensive. The thing is Nadal's style is very different from other offensive players. Yes, his ROS is his weakness, and is defensive. But as soon as a neutral rally starts he tries to dominate his opponent on almost every shot by yanking them off the court.

His forehead is incredibly effective in creating angles and pushing his opponents around. Not to mention that now he flattens out his backhand and off - forehand a lot as well.

Of course Nadal cannot hit as many winners because of his spin. But ask his opponents on how much they have to run while playing Rafa and how quickly they lose control of the point. How hard his spin is to handle and how heavy his ball is. Rafa tries to do something on every single shot he hits and tries to push his opponents back or sideways. That is not defensive.

Nadal has a unique style which is different. Doesn't mean it is not aggressive. It is incredibly effective and punishes his opponents. If it did not be would not have 16 slams and the best h2h overall against most players.

 

[mightyrick]

Yes, his ROS is his weakness,

Uh, you need to check your facts. Nadal is one of the greatest returners in the history of the sport. Definitely Top-10 all time.

 

[TennisFan3]

Uh, you need to check your facts. Nadal is one of the greatest returners in the history of the sport. Definitely Top-10 all time.

That's because of his ground game when the rally gets neutral. Not because of that one ROS shot.

Let me just say this, if Nadal had Djokovic or Murray's ROS, he would have waaay more slams.

 

[70後]

Nadal the defensive grinder is part of the proper narrative.

In the outside world though, not everybody knows or cares about what is considered proper recital and reverence in a certain sunny pumpkin field.

 

[JackGates]

Ok, Rafa is ultra aggressive. He makes Sampras look like a pusher.

 

[Kevo]

I'd just say that playing heavy spin and hitting the ball in all 3 dimensions like Nadal does is pretty aggressive. It's not reckless or all or nothing aggressive the way some players do at times. It's more like controlled aggression. The ability to hit spin like he does gives him a level of controlled aggression pretty much unique to him. Most rec players will never experience what it's like to deal with those kinds of shots, so probably don't have a very realistic appreciation for them.

 

[Gary Duane]

On what it's like to face the Spaniard, Schwartzmann said: "I think he's really aggressive every time. He can play four hours aggressive."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/907715/Rafael-Nadal-Australian-Open-2018-Diego-Schwartzmann

Some experts from TTW please inform this guy that Nadal is a defensive pusher. It's amazing how some of these pros think that grinding, moonballing (which Fed used to struggle against for 10 years) is aggressive tennis! Don't they ever read TTW threads?

Obviously not.

It was an entertaining match. Schwarztman is the new Coria, but I think better on HCs. Those guys were THUMPING the ball, and neither one has an overpowering serve. It made it very interesting.

 

[Krish872007]

Nadal is aggressive in general against most of the field, always has been. He dials it up a bit more at Roland Garros, and it's considered very unwise to allow him to start dictating points on clay in particular.
He also displays several traits associated with both "offensive baseliners" and "defensive baseliner". He used to be largely on the defensive side with controlled aggression, content to rally until an opening presented itself. In the last year or so, he's transitioning into more of an offensive baseliner with a desire to take the first cut and try to end points a bit earlier. This change is being made with conscious effort, though at times he can lapse back into retrieval mode.
The offensive baselining (with occasional forays up to the net) is proving to be very effective against the large majority of players, though it might actually be hindering him against particularly offensive and natural movers who are even more comfortable in this style.

 

[JackGates]

I'd just say that playing heavy spin and hitting the ball in all 3 dimensions like Nadal does is pretty aggressive. It's not reckless or all or nothing aggressive the way some players do at times. It's more like controlled aggression. The ability to hit spin like he does gives him a level of controlled aggression pretty much unique to him. Most rec players will never experience what it's like to deal with those kinds of shots, so probably don't have a very realistic appreciation for them.

Yeah, it's hard to describe Rafa's style.

It's like shooting missiles from your home while Fed is doing hand to hand combat.

Both is aggressive, but one is attacking tennis and one is not.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

On what it's like to face the Spaniard, Schwartzmann said: "I think he's really aggressive every time. He can play four hours aggressive."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/907715/Rafael-Nadal-Australian-Open-2018-Diego-Schwartzmann

Some experts from TTW please inform this guy that Nadal is a defensive pusher. It's amazing how some of these pros think that grinding, moonballing (which Fed used to struggle against for 10 years) is aggressive tennis! Don't they ever read TTW threads?

He's indeed a pusher, grinder and mere an arrogant dirtballer. If fed had today's mindset of being dad of rafa in game as well as today's game approach in his peak years 2004-2009(with the exception of 2008) you VB would be discussing about how great rafa was that he could take it till 5 sets on clay against the all court king Federer and how he managed to win RG08 and RG11 finals again the GOAT federer and also manged to steal a set from him in Wim08 final.........
Phak phak phak phak phak VB

 

[FHtennisman]

He is definitely not an attacking player, he rather wears down his opponent's resistance with the heaviness of his groundstrokes and the angles he's able to create, thus making them run a lot. I don't know what Diego meant by "aggressive" (though it seems, judging by the article, that he is referring to Nadal's ability to play with the same intensity for hours), but he's definitely not a player who goes for the winners every time he has an opportunity. Sure he can turn into an aggressive player when he's down and that's the only option, but that's not his mindset.

This is the correct description of Rafa - not sure what others in this thread mean by him being aggressive.

Federer is an aggressive player but certainly not Nadal.

 

[Mainad]

Nobody beats players more than Federer.

Fixed that for you.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Strange how a midget hit more aces and 13 more winners than an “aggressive” Rafaelito.

 

[clout]

I see him as an aggressive baseliner. Someone who punishes you from the baseline side to side with both his fh and bh, usually resulting in him hitting a winner or making his opponent hit FORCED errors. He's not an attacking player like Fed, Sampras or Kyrgios, but he's not a solely defensive player like Chang and Ferrer either, he just happens to be very good at playing d. Overall, Rafa's a very powerful player, he's no pusher who can't seem to go for shots like a Halep or Wozniacki.

 

[EloQuent]

English isn't his first language, he probably just meant that Rafa is tough.

 

[EloQuent]

Schwartzman might have meant "relentless", not that Rafa's style is aggressive in an offensive sense, which it obviously is not.

yeah that's really what I meant here, you said it better

English isn't his first language, he probably just meant that Rafa is tough.

 

[marc45]

On what it's like to face the Spaniard, Schwartzmann said: "I think he's really aggressive every time. He can play four hours aggressive."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/907715/Rafael-Nadal-Australian-Open-2018-Diego-Schwartzmann

Some experts from TTW please inform this guy that Nadal is a defensive pusher. It's amazing how some of these pros think that grinding, moonballing (which Fed used to struggle against for 10 years) is aggressive tennis! Don't they ever read TTW threads?

"aggressive" has come to the point of cliche, Kvitova was actually making a little fun of it earlier in the tournament...I think a better word here is "intensity"

you're absolutely right, and Diego too, in mocking the descriptions of Nadal's game but I think Murray had the best response when he was asked what was the toughest part of Nadal's game, and the interviewer brought up Nadal's physical gifts...Murray said no, the toughest thing about him is his ability to go for hours, every point, with laser focus and intensity...I mean, nobody is going to say Nadal is the most aggressive guy as far as taking risks on the court but that's definitely not the same as "moonballing"

 

[marc45]

He is definitely not an attacking player, he rather wears down his opponent's resistance with the heaviness of his groundstrokes and the angles he's able to create, thus making them run a lot. I don't know what Diego meant by "aggressive" (though it seems, judging by the article, that he is referring to Nadal's ability to play with the same intensity for hours), but he's definitely not a player who goes for the winners every time he has an opportunity. Sure he can turn into an aggressive player when he's down and that's the only option, but that's not his mindset.

"Sure he can turn into an aggressive player when he's down and that's the only option, but that's not his mindset"

exactly...conversely it seems Rafa can get very safe when he's up

 

[marc45]

1. 
   
2. diego schwartzman‏Verified account @dieschwartzman 7h7 hours ago
   Esos partidos que siempre voy acordarme. Hermosa batalla hoy frente a un gran N1 del mundo y gran persona como @RafaelNadal . Muy contento por esta gran semana. Gracias @AustralianOpen
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Translated from Spanish by Bing
   
   
   Those parties that I'll always remember. Beautiful battle today against a great N1 of the world and great person as @RafaelNadal. Very happy for this great week. Thank you @AustralianOpen ♂️
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Slightly D1]

I hope Diego Schwartzman realizes how wrong he is because some offended Federer fans on TTW clearly know more than him.

 

[Artreddy]

Problem with DGo is that he made errors (mainly FH anD some BH) at the key moments, such as when he needs 1 more point tO break. His return games are great but he hits those way outs at the most important time. There were 18 break points for both DGo and Nadal, just shows how horrible both played. He also needs to flatten out his FH a bit, he isn't playing on clay!

 

[sarmpas]

"I think he's really aggressive every time. He can play four hours aggressive."

because Diego he doesn't have the firepower to put you away sooner. Peak 2017 Federer wouldn't need 4 hours to put you away.