Who blames what? You're not making any sense.oh some people with high standard are lazy, blame everything on genetics and talent. we 've heard it all.
I think you will be the only person in the world to believe that Navigator agrees with you!You know, it's funny, I told myself to ignore you guys (ptumanminh and curious) as there's really no point in talking intelligence to someone who's incapable of understanding, but somehow with straightforward, plain as daylight input from people like Navigator...it's hard to resist.
Listen, ptuanmind and curious. I'll be frank. YOUR idea and implementation of SS, footwork and whatnot, and of general tennis are very mediocre if not totally off. It's not good for consideration. That's why it's not credible, not convincing. Reach a higher level, or gain a good number of years of match experience then I might give you an ear.
I think you will be the only person in the world to believe that Navigator agrees with you!
By the way what’s so embarrassing about your tennis that it’s impossible to post a video of you hitting a tennis ball??!
Whats your USTA record????Who blames what? You're not making any sense.
I, chic, tonylg and now navigator, all have said or implied that good (the kind that we consider) SS and footwork is likely trained from much younger years, very difficult to start in college years, either pick up in no time or not even after many many years.
Can you read?
All of us have regularly play matches seriously I believe. These guys are not on here typing all the time or posting homemade videos.
Here's a video of me hitting around 5 months ago. Maybe you tell me if i did any SS in there.
I really find this very interesting. I mean learning the split step naturally without even knowing the term. This was obviously not the case for me as an adult learner. I worked really hard and long to be able to do it properly and regularly. I see some guys in our club , as you mentioned, doing it perfectly and without even knowing they do it. When I asked one of them (like a 4.5-5.0 guy). He said he wasn’t aware of it. He’s a friend of mine now and I know he means it. Interestingly enough he doesn’t also know anything about racket lag, grip types, pronation, ESR, ISR any of those stuff!You didn't ask me and I don't really know the background of the intra-debates here among the various posters (nor your own footwork history), but your footwork looks perfectly reasonable here - it looks "proper" to me (but I'm not an expert). You're moving your feet, you're in an athletic position when your opponent is hitting the ball, there's a little hop to help you accelerate toward the ball - the timing looks just fine. It looks perfectly natural to me. I suspect... that if it was learned, it was a matter of someone saying, "hey, keep your feet moving and when your opponent is about to hit the ball get in an athletic position," and the rest just came with additional playing. I never heard the term split-step when I was a kid, nor really knew what "footwork" was. I was just told to keep my feet moving and the rest just kind of fell into place. I suspect that's how it works for most folks... but I don't really know.
I see some guys in our club , as you mentioned, doing it perfectly and without even knowing they do it. When I asked one of them (like a 4.5-5.0 guy). He said he wasn’t aware of it. He’s a friend of mine now and I know he means it. Interestingly enough he doesn’t also know anything about racket lag, grip types, pronation, ESR, ISR any of those stuff!
What’s your opinion about whether it should be tried to learn/ teach at lower levels like 3.0-3.5 or is it not worth it? Does it come naturally as you get better?Neither did I growing up. Further, my close friend, a wildly successful D1 coach, wasn’t sure what I meant when I asked him about ISR/ESR.
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What’s your opinion about whether it should be tried to learn/ teach at lower levels like 3.0-3.5 or is it not worth it? Does it come naturally as you get better?
What I’m interested to know is whether it can be learned intuitively without being taught at all.I doubt it comes naturally; if it did, they already would be doing it. The longer they play without doing it, the more inertia builds up.
Who are your students? Minors, young 20s, early 30s and/or any typical adult recreational players?I would think it depends heavily on the student's goals: if they're happy where they are and just want incremental improvement, I can think of other, easier ways to achieve that. If they're playing the long game and are willing to sacrifice and put in the needed work, I'd certainly try to teach it.
I doubt it comes naturally; if it did, they already would be doing it. The longer they play without doing it, the more inertia builds up.
What I’m interested to know is whether it can be learned intuitively without being taught at all.
What I mean is have folks like navigator and bhbh been taught somehow along the way without the term split step being used but still described or demonstrated how it’s done?
I, chic, tonylg and now navigator, all have said or implied that good (the kind that we consider) SS and footwork is likely trained from much younger years, very difficult to start in college years, either pick up in no time or not even after many many years.
Who are your students? Minors, young 20s, early 30s and/or any typical adult recreational players?
As far as rec players from the age early 30s or above, it seems like most can't see past the strokes as the only area for improvement. Meaning, they would forever work on the FH, BH, the serve, volley. These things are never enough for them, and inevitably they lag the footwork skill.
Isn't it funny that a few manage to work on movements and fitness -- and naturally have less time for the strokes -- and they win games by running down the ball over and over, but only to get called pushers or some other negative terms. So, there's pressure to stay on track with the strokes. Not so much with movements. LOL.
He probably started tennis as a kid. It is easy to engrain the SS habit as a junior.
It is a different story for the average adult first learning tennis at age 35+.
Review TimeToPlaySets posts. He was fit and had run marathons. Had a full-time coach and was drilling every day and he still had a HELL of a time with split step. For over a year he couldn't do it and actually abandoned split step when hitting with 3.5.
His split step only started peeking thru when he had to hit with 4.0 players and had trouble keeping up without employing split step.
@tonylgGuilty .. split stepping was ingrained into me almost 50 years ago. And that's possibly the difference.
...
@tonylg
Then you may need to go back to Communication 101.
I only read what you wrote. It's direct. Not inferred. Quoted above.
You didn't learn footwork, ss in adulthood. You don't know the adult's experience to speak of.
There's my full post for all to see.Guilty .. split stepping was ingrained into me almost 50 years ago. And that's possibly the difference. As a kid, I didn't know why it was important, I was told to do it and either drilled with a ball and made to do court sprints if I didn't. Instead, you guys are watching videos and analysing if it's level appropriate or not.
JUST DO IT.
It may start off feeling weird and you may even look stupid, but after 10,000 times, it will be automatic and it will help your tennis no end.
Can't comment in ttps, I blocked him not long after joining.
You’re mean! You want him to get injured?!Does someone ever feed you balls? They can mix it up, hit a few right at you after moving side to side
You’re mean! You want him to get injured?!
Application is best way to practice. Have your feeder mix them up. Intentionally trying to cross up your footwork, hitting behind, short then deep, etc. Real stuff, not running around cones being hand fed left and right
So what they're doing in this video is not "real stuff" because it involves cones and hand feeds?
Of course it's "real stuff". It's just not the "only stuff" as this is just the tip of the iceberg, of course.
Nice (dishonest) edit.There's my full post for all to see.
It's primarily your attitude that is making it difficult.
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So what they're doing in this video is not "real stuff" because it involves cones and hand feeds?
Of course it's "real stuff". It's just not the "only stuff" as this is just the tip of the iceberg, of course.
Does someone ever feed you balls? They can mix it up, hit a few right at you after moving side to side
I can hit much better than just hand fed balls. I've been competing in matches for years, not posting videos on TT. I certainly don't need anyone in this place to help me with SS, FH or whatever, but thanks for your unsolicited advises.
I think you're confused if you think I speak of only my own tennis experience. I've been speaking of what I observed of the larger scene if you can't get that from all my posts.
Its great to practice balls moving directly left at 10 mph.
These guys are creative and the obstical coarse must be fun for kids.
Looks like they are teaching footwork.
Too bad they don't know it's impossible.
J
You cant transfer your knowledge to someone else? Put yourself in the others positions then, if you know how to do it, how would you teach it?
Thread is long, may have missed. You seem concrete on guys who are 41.5698 yrs old currently playing at a 3.83 ntrp lvl who current do not split step everytime, then give a general description and expect results?
Yeah, who is this Dabul guy anyway? Oh, career high 82 in singles. And 79 in doubles. OK, maybe he knows a thing or two.
I picked up the split step when I took up tennis properly at the age of 23.If you inferred that from my comments, you're wrong .. but it was certainly not my intent.
Yes, I was taught to split step as a kid.
No, I don't believe it's as hard for an adult to learn as you're making it out to be. I think you don't want to learn to do it (which is fine) and making up excuses. It's a simple action, but needs to be practiced over and over so that it is done without thinking.
It's not strokes or split step, they go together. That movement initiates what you will do next, be it forehard, backhand, volley, run, etc. Everything but your serve.
On the topic of transferring knowledge or helping someone else, I think we can only do that with friends and they have to be open enough and capable of absorption. By the time you get thru all those IFs you'll be lucky to find one person.
Believe me I want those around me to play better, much better. Lately it seems like I'm bribing them by giving them excellent odds to beat me and I paid for lunches But yeah I do like challenges and that's where my cost is.
The topic is if there are adult learners, 4.0s and below, finding SS difficult.
I certainly don't need anyone in this place to help me with SS, FH or whatever
Haha...you're living in a slow lane. Maybe everything is easier if it's slowCan’t believe it. Left only for half an hour and look at this mess!!
Yeah, who is this Dabul guy anyway?
Must of been all those cones and hand feeds
People here arent so bad, just came off confrontational. Most ppl here wanna help each other. There is no such thing as a bad tip if you understand what you are doing because you can see the flaw in it and learn from it.
If your ever in orlando, im hungry I know your fighting with alot here, hope i didnt come off wrong, im peace with everyone (except roger moron) in this section
He figures prominently on Fed's best tweener videos.
Can’t believe it. Left only for half an hour and look at this mess!!
That’s why ‘when your opponent hits the ball’ is a bad checkpoint. Hop somewhere around the forward swing of the opponent is the best reference for timing. Never fails. Yeah make sure you’re watching the opponent’s racket of course!The difficult part was to instinctively time the split step following irregular shots, where the opponent makes contact earlier or later than normal.
Footwork can be learn. I am pretty sure about it. My first 2 years of playing tennis, i did not know how to SS, or how to move around. I watched many youtube videos about footwork and a lot of pro matches. It can be learn.I really find this very interesting. I mean learning the split step naturally without even knowing the term. This was obviously not the case for me as an adult learner. I worked really hard and long to be able to do it properly and regularly. I see some guys in our club , as you mentioned, doing it perfectly and without even knowing they do it. When I asked one of them (like a 4.5-5.0 guy). He said he wasn’t aware of it. He’s a friend of mine now and I know he means it. Interestingly enough he doesn’t also know anything about racket lag, grip types, pronation, ESR, ISR any of those stuff!
You have to expand your perspective a bit here. Even if I run into many much better players, what good does it do for me if I don't have the time, the energy, the incentive to learn all the advance stuff?You must be an awesome player then; at least UTR 12 [since Matt is 10.xx and if you can't learn anything from him you must be at least 1 level higher if not more].
C'mon: that's not really what you meant, is it?
He figures prominently on Fed's best tweener videos.
Thought you were a very high standard person????You have to expand your perspective a bit here. Even if I run into many much better players, what good does it do for me if I don't have the time, the energy, the incentive to learn all the advance stuff?
Happiness is going with the flow. Being somewhere between 3.5 and 4.0 seems like the sweetest spot. It's more effortless for me to keep up that level though I need to hit the gym for better workout.