Does Pat Cash still think Serena is a "Lost Cause?"

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Hingis' comeback appears not to be over. I think Pat's appraisal of her is a bit premature.

Cash's Column said:
There is so much more depth to the women’s game nowadays. No longer do we disregard the first week of a Grand Slam as a warm-up for the real confrontations that are to come.
Pat's dreaming. The WTA still lacks depth ... save for the healthy assortment of Head Cases. (Serena being one of the biggest.)

I'll tune-in to the Women's matches in OZ this weekend. Hopefully Shriekapova will be OUT by then.

- KK
 

superstition

Hall of Fame
Sharapova is one of the most talented female players I've seen, with or without her gamesmanship (the cries) and cheating (coaching from the stands). It would be nice for there to be a rule against screaming, but it's very hard to implement such a rule. It could be abused.

As for the article, he's way off. I just watched SW's match against NP, and she started to look like the Serena of old. Petrova is no slouch. She's adjusting to her new racquet and does need to drop a bit of weight. Her knee also does seem to be hampering her movement somewhat. But, the amount of muscle she has right now is amazing, and when she gets more used to her racquet, she's going to be in the top 10 again, if she can stay focused, play enough matches, and keep from getting injured. Serena is far from a lost cause. What remains to be seen, though, is her health. Injuries can knock a player out practically permanently, and it has nothing to do with their desire to play.
 

The Gorilla

Banned
Sharapova is one of the most talented female players I've seen, with or without her gamesmanship (the cries) and cheating (coaching from the stands). It would be nice for there to be a rule against screaming, but it's very hard to implement such a rule. It could be abused.

what about the hindrance rule?
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Sharapova is one of the most talented female players I've seen, with or without her gamesmanship (the cries) and cheating (coaching from the stands).
1 - I fail to see how you can "separate" her behavior from the whole of "her game."

2 - She's one-dimensional. She "out-Williamses" the Williams sisters.

- KK
 

superstition

Hall of Fame
Seles was one-dimensional as well, and exceptionally talented.

I do separate her behavior from her game, because her game would be just as good without the banana thing and the noise.
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Seles was one-dimensional as well, and exceptionally talented.
1 - We agree she was one-dimensional.
2 - We disagree on talent. I don't think she was "talented" at all. I think her "Go for broke" style was simply a *shock* to the ladies. Just as the women adapted to the Williams sisters' power game, they'd have adjusted to Seles' game.

- KK
 

Sagittar

Hall of Fame
well he's judging her on depending on his tennis experience and that in his time didn't include a female player over-powering other players like that , and we'll have to wait if that knee problems would retutn again or she'll remain injury free and regain the #1 rank .. but most likely we'll just see her in 5 or 6 tournamets only again this year
 

Slazenger

Professional
Pls let's not let this thread get derailed. Racist or not, Serena let her racquet do the talking. Brava!

The Lost Cause won Cash's homeland slam. Too funny
 

Slazenger

Professional
I apologise. I just assumed since women's tennis is such a joke :)rolleyes: ), no one on this board would care about a possible spoiler.
 

Pancho

Semi-Pro
Hehehehe. The article is funny. Serena must be reading it and loving every bit of it. She made every critic eat their words.
 

nickb

Banned
Where is she ranked now, i think the commentators at AO said she moves from 80 something to 13 or 14? Im glad she won, she played great tennis and made Sharapova look crap.
 

tennisfreak

Semi-Pro
Sharapova is one of the most talented female players I've seen, with or without her gamesmanship (the cries) and cheating (coaching from the stands). It would be nice for there to be a rule against screaming, but it's very hard to implement such a rule. It could be abused.

As for the article, he's way off. I just watched SW's match against NP, and she started to look like the Serena of old. Petrova is no slouch. She's adjusting to her new racquet and does need to drop a bit of weight. Her knee also does seem to be hampering her movement somewhat. But, the amount of muscle she has right now is amazing, and when she gets more used to her racquet, she's going to be in the top 10 again, if she can stay focused, play enough matches, and keep from getting injured. Serena is far from a lost cause. What remains to be seen, though, is her health. Injuries can knock a player out practically permanently, and it has nothing to do with their desire to play.

Very good call, superstition.
 

AndrewD

Legend
And if calling someone thick is racist. What is calling someones arse HUGE and Whalelike? Stronger than thick? LOL.

That's okay mate, you sound like one of those 'Deliverance' hillbillys, which would explain why you seem to have a fascination with someone's backside. I know you were dying to call it 'HUGE, Whalelike and Inviting' but thanks for the restraint, it is appreciated.

Regardless, I'm sure you know a few Australians but, be honest, you don't have "lots of Australian friends". Even the thickest of us aren't going to be friends with someone who calls us thick all the time, is such an inveterate liar and gives off such a George Bush-esque vibe.

Quite simply, if you have read or heard racist comments made by Cash then you could say 'he is racist'. However, if your suspicions are based on nothing more than an 'I just think he is' style hunch then yes, you are an Idiot. Of course, someone who believes that knowing a few people from one country allows you to make blanket statements about all people from that country isn't playing with a full deck. Like we hadn't worked that out after your Sampras-Federer exhibition match thread ;)
 
Saying Cash is racist just because of what he said about Serena is just plain dumb. Guess what, 90% of tennis insiders seemed to have the same thoughts as he did, they just had a much more subtle way of saying it. Of course, as the Williams have each done in the past, Serena proved him dead wrong, and given the bluntness and definitiveness of his statements he comes across with egg on his face in a way. That does not mean he is racist though.

Pat Cash has said worse things about other female players then anything he said recently about Serena. He said Davenport's build resembled a shot puters one time. He just is very outspoken and says things that create controversy. Nothing to do with racism.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Pat Cash has said worse things about other female players then anything he said recently about Serena. He said Davenport's build resembled a shot puters one time. He just is very outspoken and says things that create controversy. Nothing to do with racism.

So he is a racist AND a misogynist. Big deal.
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Apparently, they haven't adapted to the "Williams sisters' power game".
I didn't watch the Women's Final. Did Serena blast her off the court? Did she Attack the Net?

From what a number of Members are posting, they seem to think Shriekapova contributed to Serena's win by playing really badly. I don't know.

Since I didn't see it, I'll have to rely on you to be objective about what happened....

- KK
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
One more pathetic little Serena hater from Australia.

Notice own of his complaints is about her handbag.

Then, he justifies everything by finding reasons to hate Federer. How much convoluted thinking went into this article! Let us defend our Serena hating with an imagined hating of Federer. A great brain going to waste here I am sure.

Australians - wake up. Your hateful little Hewitt is past his prime and your Stosur and Molik are no where near Serena.
----------------------------------------------------

Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/news/tennis/i...dislike-federer/2007/01/27/1169788740582.html

I hate to admit it, Serena, but we can even dislike Federer
Richard Hinds
January 28, 2007

SERENA Williams calls them - OK, she calls us - the haters. The people whose sole aim is to bring her and her fellow stars down. Belittle their achievements. Mock their failures. Provide massive global exposure for their sponsors and make them millionaires.

Actually, she might not have mentioned the last two things. But you get the picture.

Never mind the endless pages of glowing endorsements, straitlaced acknowledgement or simple recording of athletic achievement you will see in this and similar publications. Apparently, we are just low-life haters.

So if we're going to hate, let's not pick soft targets like the younger Williams shoving her ubiquitous sponsored handbag in the cameraman's face or mouthing an endless stream of graceless excuses. No more picking on Lleyton Hewitt and his po-faced entourage. We'll even leave the Scud alone to hobble on to the dance floor in pursuit of more celebrity totty.

We are going to prove Serena's theory that we are all a pack of haters by loathing the unloathable. We are going to hate Roger Federer.

I didn't say it was going to be easy. Here is a champion athlete who carries himself with such class, dignity and good humour that, for the normal person, he would be almost impossible not to like. The man chats with strangers in the corridors at Melbourne Park, is humbled in the presence of tennis legends, is genuinely overwhelmed by the tributes his vast accomplishments inspire and grunts only when lifting heavy objects. What's not to like?

Well, let's start with his looks. "Pretty average," is my resident female expert's opinion (I'm obviously not comfortable enough with my own sexuality to start rating other men). "If he wasn't a superstar you might not give him a second look."

Don't you just hate these plain superstars taking space in the magazines where the ultra-hunks should be? But our vicious assault on Federer does not stop there.

We hate him because he remains in a stable relationship with his long-term girlfriend, Mirka Vavrinec. Oh no, you won't see goody-two-shoes Roger bed-hopping from one Hilton to the next (the sisters, we mean, not the hotel). He has too much class to give pudgy, balding hacks like me any vicarious pleasure by chalking up a decent strike rate with supermodels. Don't you hate that?

We're figuring we can work up a bit of hate about that oh-so-humble in victory routine too, even if his tears of joy are entirely genuine.

Like when he was asked after his Australian Open semi-final against Andy Roddick what sort of legacy he would like to leave. "I would just like to be remembered as one of the nice guys," he said with heart-warming sincerity. You've got to hate the ego.

And the way he plays - definitely hate-worthy. It took cynical coaches trying to push teenage champions out of their sweat-shop academies years to eliminate such arcane, hard-to-learn practices as the serve and volley and single-handed backhand.

Yet here is Federer, pushing the game back into the dark ages with his insistence on entertaining crowds by playing the old-fashioned way. Hate you, Feds, just hate you.

Besides, how is my eight year-old supposed to imitate that shot Federer played the other night? The one when Roddick smashed a short ball back at him and he swept a backhand half-volley winner off his shoelaces as if he were waving a conductor's baton. Role model? Huh!

See, Serena, you were right. We can hate anyone. It's just that you make it so much easier.

Source: The Sun-Herald
 
B

bballhawk

Guest
Wow, that article is soooooooooooo wrong it's funny. Pretty much every prediction and statement he makes is proven wrong. It's unreal. He has to eat some crow in public after the AO, he owes it to her (if he's man enough). That was funny.

BTW Serena was catching flack for being out of shape from everywhere before the tournament. Carrilo was at the forefront in the US. It was just too easy to take shots at her. Serves them well :)
 
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OrangeOne

Legend
One more pathetic little Serena hater from Australia.

The world is made of different people. Serena's a polarising figure. Probably something to learn to accept.

Notice own of his complaints is about her handbag.

Did you see the post-match discussion with Bruce McAveny? Maybe not, maybe it was only shown in Australia. She had her 'oversize' handbag, with the 'oversize' Nike logo, placed on the bench-table in front her, on one camera view, it actually blocked part of her, and was hideously distracting. I'm sure she only got away with it as she'd just won a Grand Slam. It was the most disgusting case of product placement I have ever seen in my life. Could we not just focus on the athlete at such a moment?

Then, he justifies everything by finding reasons to hate Federer. How much convoluted thinking went into this article! Let us defend our Serena hating with an imagined hating of Federer. A great brain going to waste here I am sure.

Contrast. Irony. Entertainment. All words to be used when reading that article. The author and the paper / editor are not stupid. They know many people dislike Serena / the Williams clan, and thus those people are not going to like a sports-section completely praising her, so they've balanced it out. Smart marketing.

Australians - wake up. Your hateful little Hewitt is past his prime and your Stosur and Molik are no where near Serena.

'Little hateful Hewitt' - seems maybe you dislike Hewitt? You make remark such as this, but you can't make the stretch to think that people might dislike other players? Disappointing.
 

foryou42

New User
pat cash: "They are the new winning breed. They are tall and hit the ball just as hard as the Williams sisters, if not harder. Coming through are Jelena Jankovic, Nicole Vaidisova and Ana Ivanovic, who possess similar firepower and just need a little more experience.
There is so much more depth to the women’s game nowadays."


YEAH RIGHT!! by saying "they are the new winning breed" it seems to prove
pat cash really is racist...lol ^^;;
 

Morpheus

Professional
I didn't watch the Women's Final. Did Serena blast her off the court? Did she Attack the Net?

From what a number of Members are posting, they seem to think Shriekapova contributed to Serena's win by playing really badly. I don't know.

Since I didn't see it, I'll have to rely on you to be objective about what happened....

- KK

Serena blew her away in every aspect of the game. It was quite impressive. I had thought that perhaps the women's game had adjusted to the power and spirit of the William's. I'm not so sure now because the Serena of old showed up and Maria wasn't even close.
 
B

bballhawk

Guest
Could we not just focus on the athlete at such a moment?

Don't you think it's ironic that you are saying that after getting your panties in a bunch because Serena showed some handbag to the cameras.

It is called commerce. It pays the bills. You must be really broke (or really miserable) to be that upset over something innocuous as that.
 
D

Deleted member 6835

Guest
ya the funny part was seeing maria stalking around like an upset 5 year old after the match and up to the awards ceremony. great attitude shriekapova. this is why i respect nadal, he is humble in defeat and success, as is federer, which is why they can be considered "true champions". its not just how you play tennis, its your attitude as well. i appreciate sharapova's story, no doubt, and i am happy that her hard work and her dad's effort paid off, but after the cheating incidences, and how she acts, well, i dont like her much. thats just my opinion.

anyways, back to s. williams, boy did she shut a lot of people up, including pat cash and like 90% of these boards. good job serena.

btw, to KK: like morpheus said, she completely blew her off in all aspects, completely overpowered. she didnt come to the net much (she doesnt do that much regardless), but she did have a couple of nice volley put-aways. shriekapova's main problem was her serve (if you watch the match sometime, you'll see why, lol).
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Wow. Thanks, morpheus.

Then I guess I was wrong in my Post #9, here. Isn't the first time ... won't be the last.

- KK
 

OrangeOne

Legend
Don't you think it's ironic that you are saying that after getting your panties in a bunch because Serena showed some handbag to the cameras.

It is called commerce. It pays the bills. You must be really broke (or really miserable) to be that upset over something innocuous as that.

Oh god, not another pays-the-bills discussion in regard to a multi-millionaire athlete? I hope not...

Anyways, thanks for the lecture. Previously I've struggled with the complex world of marketing and advertising, and the minutiae of corporate sponsorship has always caused me issues, I've oft lost sleep over this. Product placement, until now, confused me so.

But your post cleared everything up for me, and now I know too that it's all my fault, and that, indeed, if I ever see something that irritates me, i should simply keep quiet and criticise myself instead.

Oh - I see you're new, too. Welcome to the boards :/
 

OrangeOne

Legend
ya the funny part was seeing maria stalking around like an upset 5 year old after the match and up to the awards ceremony. great attitude shriekapova.

I gotta say, whilst I dislike some things about ScreamaCheataPova ;), I don't indeed mind her being upset after a loss. It must be hard - devastatingly hard - to have to smile & play nice after a loss of any kind, let alone in front of thousands (millions on TV) a career-shuddering loss when you've been sent back to kiddy-coaching by an opponent you were expected to beat.

I'd be more unimpressed if she just laughed it off, to be honest. Just like Roddick's post-match interview, at least a bit of disappointment is real. She was gracious in the speech, she smiled in the photos. All that is necessary, really....
 

OrangeOne

Legend
Wow. Thanks, morpheus.

Then I guess I was wrong in my Post #9, here. Isn't the first time ... won't be the last.

- KK

Only partly wrong KK. It wasn't that she didn't handle the power as much as Serena was 'on' in a way that most players might be once or twice in their career - think Scud v. Sampras back at the AO in the 90s. Handling power requires actually getting balls hit near you! ;). Also, for the rest of the tourney, most players have coped OK with the power, not brilliantly, but OK.

Anyways - this level of 'on' - well Shriekapova tried to wait it out, as players usually do wait-out the purple patch. Didn't help during this first period, Shrieka's serve was AWOL too. Then, in the second set, Shrieka picked it up a little, but Serena's confidence was sky-high, and her motivation for destruction was piqued by a bodyline smash from Shrieka too (late in first or early in second, can't remember).

If Serena keeps playing like that, she indeed will be the WTA version of Fed.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Sharapov has the yips on her serve...that makes a big difference..she had multiple double faults and was coughing up weak serves Serena (and other good players) could chomp on. i thought the quality of female play at this years AO was really inferior...tons of UE's and mindless backcourt Ball bashing. Sharapova could have been ousted in the first round by an unknown and could have been in subsequent matches if she played better players. The fact that Serena could win this event being rusty and out of shape and not match tough indicates to me how weak this years competition was rather than how terific serena was. I hope it's not a harbinger of things to come from the women.
 

Ultra2HolyGrail

Hall of Fame
It's just like the mens tour if you say federer is so dominant that the rest of the field suks. Serena is not just some unknown who came in and cleaned house and everyones excuse is the womens tour is weak now lol. If sharapova won nobody would say the womens tour is weak. Give serena some credit, she is a hell of a power baseliner for a women..
 
Richard Hinds...[B said:
SERENA Williams[/B] calls them - OK, she calls us - the haters. .....

Source: The Sun-Herald

Funny, Pat Cash used to call the same people, "The knockers".

BTW, I do not think suresh got the irony in the Hinds article.
I love Serena. I do not thoroughly hate Nike. I did find the handbag thing embarrassing for my people. Does that make ME a Serena hater? Of course not. I means I am doing my best to ease the irony deficit for my country.
 
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Yours!05

Professional
Funny, Pat Cash used to call the same people, "The knockers".

BTW, I do not think suresh got the irony in the Hinds article.
I love Serena. I do not thoroughly hate Nike. I did find the handbag thing embarrassing for my people. Does that make ME a Serena hater? Of course not. I means I am doing my best to ease the irony deficit for my country.
Sheesh, thought you were away...:D
 

oberyn

Professional
So he is a racist AND a misogynist. Big deal.

I thinkthe race card is getting overplayed here. I posted a comment on another forum daring to ask the question where I asked what I thought were some legitimate questions about the state of the women's game. The questions actually had more to do with the performances by Mauresmo and Kuzetsova in the quarters and Clijsters in the semis than they did about Serena Williams' run. Needless to say, I got labelled a racist by a lot of folks, as well, which, as an African-American male, I found pretty humorous.

I defend Serena as much as anyone on here, but throwing out the race card anytime someone's criticial of her is pretty ridiculous. Her mother said she wasn't in tip-top shape heading into the tournament. Is she a racist, too? Racism does exist. Criticizing a black athlete doesn't make one a racist. To suggest that it does only stifles debate and makes people more apt to ignore real instances of racism when they do occur.
 
I don't think she was "talented" at all. - KK

Yeah right! 8 slams = no talent??!!
To find the angles she used to find, so consistently, with that kind of pace and so few UE's. C'mon man. I don't see any other women doing it. Not even close!
 
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Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
Well all I know Andrew D, is that I had enough in the deck to declare Serena the player to beat. And your local hero(you Aussies are such hero worshippers) who won one Slam with his hack and a chop game is wearing a goat hair jacket right about now. So much for his ability to "see".
 

Kaptain Karl

Hall Of Fame
Yeah right! 8 slams = no talent??!!
To find the angles she used to find, so consistently, with that kind of pace and so few UE's. C'mon man. I don't see any other women doing it. Not even close!
Seles was a whacky player. Even when asked, she'd say she didn't have "strategy" in mind. She just hit the ball.

I never liked her game. Her success was more of a knock on the mediocre WTA....

- KK
 
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