If we had to choose between winning a 13th RG (and 20th slam) this year and winning WTF, any NORMAL person would choose the first option without even thinking.When did I bring down Nadal's 13 RG's? That's an unparalleled achievement, but even if he wins 5 more RG's he still has a huge hole in his resume. If he wins 1 WTF instead, he didn't miss out on anything by not winning a 14th RG.
The same reason a 2nd RG or a gold medal would raise Djokovic's GOAT standing a lot more than 1 more AO (although personally I'd rather see him with 10 AO's because it's such a special tournament for him and he deserves to be in that same rarefied company as Nadal). But if I were using the logic of these Vamosalaplayans, then "Djokovic never won Olympic Gold, therefore the Olympics are a trash exho that no one cares about".
It is never even mentioned Becker won 3 Masters titles. Nobody puts him ahead of agassi or edberg for instanceThe ATP World Championship doesn't add anything to Becker's one of the greatest indoors player ever legacy. LOL Under which rock did you live during the 90s?
Being a Djokovic fan, though I was rooting for Novak to win the FO final, I was happy to see Rafa tie Roger's record. Needless to say I am very happy that Novak has passed Roger with 6 YE at #1 and hoping he will pass Roger's weeks at #1.I see #20 still hurts, especially for some Djokovic fanboys. (of course, they all were sure it was going to be a repeat of RG 2015 1/4 final. Still in shock)
See i have no idea about WTF history or lack of. Most people are the same. Kind of illustrates my point.The Tour Finals wasn't even held until 1970 after Laver won his last slam.
After 1969, Laver made 1 slam QF. And never made it further than that. Not really fair to hold it against him. And that is also why I specified Open Era great, as most of Laver's career preceded it.
I always thought people had Edberg slightly ahead? Because of more weeks at no.1 and Major h2h? I always had Becker ahead though.Disagree. Indoors supremacy is why Becker is marginally ahead of Edberg, IMO. And I like Edberg more.
Stop trolling. You just want to bring Nadal down at all cost? Yeah, winning a useless "tournament" which allows the winner to lose a match is more important than winning a 20th slam? Nice joke.
Leave alone the fact that every new RG Nadal wins is a new record in tennis history. 13 titles at a single slam!!! What would 1 WTF do to his legacy? Absolutely nothing. He wouldn't beat any records with this, he wouldn't even get close to any records. Even had he won it nobody would even remember this title after his retires. People would remember 20 slams, 13 RG, all the records on clay and so on. Nobody would remember him for winning 1 WTF. Saying WTF is more important for him than RG is not just ridiculous, it's LUNACY.
Disagree. Indoors supremacy is why Becker is marginally ahead of Edberg, IMO. And I like Edberg more.
Rosewall, who was four years older than Laver won the WCT finals over Laver in 71-72. He also won the USO in 70 and the AO in 71-72 and reached the Wimbledon and USO finals in 74, just short of his 40th birthday. AGAIN, there is no one GOAT.The Tour Finals wasn't even held until 1970 after Laver won his last slam.
After 1969, Laver made 1 slam QF. And never made it further than that. Not really fair to hold it against him. And that is also why I specified Open Era great, as most of Laver's career preceded it.
AGAIN, there is no one GOAT.
Lol, no. Only butthurt haters will. Real tennis fans know that slams are the most important tournaments, and he won them all. Nadal in WTF isn't worse than Federer and Djokovic are in RG, just not as lucky as them.nobody will remember nadal for winning 1 wtf, but EVERYBODY will remember him for failing to win the wtf just one single time!
so a player with only 4 grand slams can be greater than the one with 20 slams only coz he won it in one single year, nice very niceSo, if there is any GOAT, it is Rod Laver.
Most people have Edberg ahead, wth are you talking about? Lol.
You guys can try to talk up the WTF as much as you want, it never was and never will be even close to slams in importance. Once Nadal gets #21 (hopefully next year), nobody will give a f*ck about WTF.
so a player with only 4 grand slams can be greater than the one with 20 slams only coz he won it in one single year, nice very nice
ask them too and i think you'll be also a bit surprised what would they prefer to have ...so-called 'ultimate prize' by you or the overall number of slamsAsk Roger, Rafa and Novak how many of their Major Titles they would trade to have a GRAND SLAM early in their career and another late in their career.
I think their answer might surprise you.
None of the three have managed to win each Major Twice in their Career. (Novak is still a chance. Rafa is a slim chance with a little bit of luck). Laver achieved that feat too.
Was backing Rafa to win it this year, wanted him to complete the set.
ask them too and i think you'll be also surprised what they would prefer to have ...so-called 'ultimate prize' by you or the overall number of slams
Actually, I never heard it outside of tennis forums. WTF is a very small tournament compared to slams. This is the same thing as bashing Federer for not winning Monte Carlo or Rome, or Olympic gold. I mean, who cares about OG if a player has 20 slams? Yeah, I'm sure Federer would like to have Murray's career instead.Nadal doesn't need the WTF after he hits 21, true, but it will always be mentioned that he never won it no matter how many slams he wins. And not just by fans but by tennis media who know tennis history, and give some sway to the whole debate because people appeal to those opinions. I think most people get brainwashed by them, but I digress.
You completely missed my point. Read it again.Nadal had 7 years since I made this thread to win it.
Because you're a Djokovic fan and he won 5 of those?Obviously it's not some disqualifying factor for Nadal, but it's still a pretty big hole in his resume.
Your anti-logic never fails to fascinate us."nobody" = "GOAT"
Ask Roger, Rafa and Novak how many of their Major Titles they would trade to have a GRAND SLAM early in their career and another late in their career
Roger Federer – ’03, ’04, ’06, ’07, ’10, ‘11
Pete Sampras – ’91, ’94, ’96, ’97, ‘99
Ivan Lendl – ’81, ’82, ’85, ’86, ‘87
Bjorn Borg – ’79, ‘80
John McEnroe – ’78, ’83, ‘84
Jimmy Connors – ‘77
Andre Agassi – ‘90
Novak Djokovic – ’08, ‘12, '13
Stefan Edberg – ‘89
How can Rafael “I wish the WTF was played on clay” Nadal be considered an all-time great when he cannot accomplish something that every great player of the open era has?
Djoker has 1 more chance.It is really. It appears no ATG in the OE has it all.
I actually think it makes sense (for lack of a better phrase) that the guy with such insane dominance of one surface also has another surface where he is by far the worst of his rivals.
What can I say? I like balance in all things. Nadal winning the WTF creates a disturbance in the force.
Why does H2H suddenly matter, but not wins against fellow top 8 players at the WTF?Do people really care about World Tour Finals? How does it rate against ...
Calendar Year GRAND SLAM?
Holding all Four Major Titles at the same time?
Number of Weeks with Number 1 Ranking?
Consecutive Major Tournament Wins?
Consecutive Annual Major Tournament Wins?
Total Tour Tournament Wins?
H2H Records against the other great players of the Era.
It is highly unlikely the Sport will ever drop Major Tournaments or Rankings. But there is no guarantee that the WTF Tournament will proceed in perpetuity. What then?
Why does H2H suddenly matter, but not wins against fellow top 8 players at the WTF?
I mean, if you're so good against the world's best, what stopped you from winning it?
Because WTF is a tournament on indoor hardcourt.Why does H2H suddenly matter, but not wins against fellow top 8 players at the WTF?
I mean, if you're so good against the world's best, what stopped you from winning it?
Well that's ironicI see #20 still hurts, especially for some Djokovic fanboys. (of course, they all were sure it was going to be a repeat of RG 2015 1/4 final. Still in shock)
So? As a professional, it's Nadal's job to adapt to every possible playing condition.Because WTF is a tournament on indoor hardcourt.
So were youI see #20 still hurts, especially for some Djokovic fanboys. (of course, they all were sure it was going to be a repeat of RG 2015 1/4 final. Still in shock)
Your anti-logic never fails to fascinate us.
But since there is no GOAT you may be accidentally correct.
For once.
Ok, what is Federer's head to head against Nadal on clay? What was Djokovic's against prime Nadal? So why don't you say they should adapt to any condition? They won RG only when they managed to avoid him. (Djokovic also had to avoid Wawrinka)So? As a professional, it's Nadal's job to adapt to every possible playing condition.
They won the FO. Nadal still hasn't won the WTF.Ok, what is Federer's head to head against Nadal on clay? What was Djokovic's against prime Nadal? So why don't you say they should adapt to any condition? They won RG only when they managed to avoid him. (Djokovic also had to avoid Wawrinka)
The problem is that Nadal had to deal with TWO great indoor players, not just one. Also, he had lots of injuries and skipped WTF lots of times. Now he finally managed to avoid both Federer and Djokovic there, but this is when he is 34 years old. At this point he can't deal with the young players anymore. As you can see, Djokovic is a much more healthy player, and even he struggles against them. Thiem already beat him twice in RG.
Yeah, I'm sure they would have won it if they skipped it like 6 times and had 2 strong rivals there instead of 1.They won the FO. Nadal still hasn't won the WTF.
Nadal had a chance to win it this year.Yeah, I'm sure they would have won it if they skipped it like 6 times and had 2 strong rivals there instead of 1.
Yes, when he is 34 years old.Nadal had a chance to win it this year.
The trolling is getting wearisome. Everyone on the planet puts Becker ahead of Edberg. Just compare their career stats. Same # of slams, but everything else is in Boris' favor.It is never even mentioned Becker won 3 Masters titles. Nobody puts him ahead of agassi or edberg for instance
Nadal will still have a couple years to win RG, but WTF is getting less and less achievable by the year.If we had to choose between winning a 13th RG (and 20th slam) this year and winning WTF, any NORMAL person would choose the first option without even thinking.
No, I've been saying this since before Novak even had 2 WTF's. Classic projection.Because you're a Djokovic fan and he won 5 of those?
Yeah, right. Fan logic.
Most people have Edberg ahead, wth are you talking about? Lol.
You guys can try to talk up the WTF as much as you want, it never was and never will be even close to slams in importance. Once Nadal gets #21 (hopefully next year), nobody will give a f*ck about WTF.
His resume is clay heavy, yes, and the people who call him a Clay Court specialist have strong argument to continue to do so after yesterday's defeat, but with few more Wimbledon and AO titles in the next couple of years, with two ATP World Championships in the next two years, he has a chance to change that narrative. Let's see what happens.Clay brat is not a open era great.
It is never even mentioned Becker won 3 Masters titles. Nobody puts him ahead of agassi or edberg for instance
The trolling is getting wearisome. Everyone on the planet puts Becker ahead of Edberg. Just compare their career stats. Same # of slams, but everything else is in Boris' favor.
Becker/Edberg > or >> MurrayExcept for Edberg's far greater number of weeks at #1 (72 v 12) and 2 Y/E #1s v 0.
Becker/Edberg > or >> Murray