Greatest Sportsperson of All Time?

[jiddy-p]

Sprinting is not our most primal skill. Every other mammal our size (and many much smaller) has us beat in that regard.

Long distance running... maybe. But I maintain that combat is more primal than running.

Fair enough about the distance running. We are not the fastest, but we are the best distance runners in the animal kingdom. But combat? You are a cynical man...

 

[Mustard]

We have already had this thread. It goes on for pages and pages and actually contains some quality debate.

The arrogance of Mustard to declare Taylor as sports GOAT as if it was fact. A bit like Taylor himself.

AP McCoy (Taylor's idol) was more dominant than the power anyway, regardless of Phil (stripped of his MBE for sexual assault) Taylor competing in split fields.

I prefer to say that I speak with confidence, but call it "arrogance" if you wish.

Nobody was close to Taylor, in either field, during Taylor's dominance. In 1997, Taylor beat Burnett (the 1995 BDO World Champion) 4-1 in sets, averaging well over 100. In 1999, the two world champions met in a challenge match, with the chance of winning £60,000 and all the bragging rights. Taylor beat Barneveld 21-10 in legs over 60 minutes of play. The other challenge match between the two world champions was in 2004, with Taylor beating Fordham 5-2 in sets.

The people who use that argument of split fields completely miss the point that Taylor won 2 world titles in 1990 and 1992, when there was still a unified field. At that time, Taylor was certainly not as good as he would become in the future. Taylor's average in the 1992 World Championship final of 97.59, is still the best ever average in a BDO World Championship final, to this day. That's been beaten a lot of times in the PDC World Championship finals.

Also how dominant would Fed be if he played only against Murray, James Ward and Robin Haase?

This is so laughable. There isn't a single player who has a winning head-to-head record against Taylor. Not one. He certainly never had a Nadal equivalent as a rival who put one over him so many times.

 

[jiddy-p]

I love how "hοmo" is censored.

I know right! I had to edit it.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Fair enough about the distance running. We are not the fastest, but we are the best distance runners in the animal kingdom. But combat? You are a cynical man...

Back in caveman days, if you got into an argument, you could either run away or stand and fight. Fight or flight.

But if you killed a buffalo and some other caveman wanted to take it from you, you couldn't run away with the buffalo.

Fighting solves all arguments. Always has, always will. That's why it's the most primal form of competition.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I prefer to say that I speak with confidence, but call it "arrogance" if you wish.

Nobody was close to Taylor, in either field, during Taylor's dominance. In 1997, Taylor beat Burnett (the 1995 BDO World Champion) 4-1 in sets, averaging well over 100. In 1999, the two world champions met in a challenge match, with the chance of winning £60,000 and all the bragging rights. Taylor beat Barneveld 21-10 in legs over 60 minutes of play. The other challenge match between the two world champions was in 2004, with Taylor beating Fordham 5-2 in sets.

The people who use that argument of split fields completely miss the point that Taylor won 2 world titles in 1990 and 1992, when there was still a unified field. At that time, Taylor was certainly not as good as he would become in the future. Taylor's average in the 1992 World Championship final of 97.59, is still the best ever average in a BDO World Championship final, to this day. That's been beating many times in the PDC World Championship finals.



This is so laughable. There isn't a single player who has a winning head-to-head record against Taylor. Not one. He certainly never had a Nadal equivalent as a rival who put one over him so many times.

You're fighting a losing battle to get folks to agree with you on this.

As another poaster said, if there is a "sport" where you can be 50, overweight, on the drink, and be the undisputed GOAT, you need to look elsewhere to find an actual contender for the greatest sportsperson.

Because the aforementioned guy would fit that bill about as well as my water bottle fits into the drink holder spot near the steering wheel of the yacht I am currently in.

TL : DR - It's darts ffs.

 

[Zoid]

I prefer to say that I speak with confidence, but call it "arrogance" if you wish.

Nobody was close to Taylor, in either field, during Taylor's dominance. In 1997, Taylor beat Burnett (the 1995 BDO World Champion) 4-1 in sets, averaging well over 100. In 1999, the two world champions met in a challenge match, with the chance of winning £60,000 and all the bragging rights. Taylor beat Barneveld 21-10 in legs over 60 minutes of play. The other challenge match between the two world champions was in 2004, with Taylor beating Fordham 5-2 in sets.

The people who use that argument of split fields completely miss the point that Taylor won 2 world titles in 1990 and 1992, when there was still a unified field. At that time, Taylor was certainly not as good as he would become in the future. Taylor's average in the 1992 World Championship final of 97.59, is still the best ever average in a BDO World Championship final, to this day. That's been beaten a lot of times in the PDC World Championship finals.



Oh god give it up - we are talking about Sports! Darts is a pub game played by drunken, middle-aged men in the dark corners of bars around Europe. I don't think darts requires any stamina, endurance, strength, power, agility, or creativity. No doubt Phil Taylor is impressive at throwing a dart at a certain point from 9 feet. But you have got to be kidding me that you are legitimately saying he is the greatest sportsman of all-time? of all sports? He would have been the kid who you picked LAST in Physical Education football in ninth grade. You're turning this thread into a joke.

My pick goes to Jordan, Ali, or Bradman.

Jordan because he was the best in a sport that has the best athletes IMO.

Ali because he was Ali.

Bradman because statistically he just doesn't make sense. Maybe Gretszky comes close, but Bradman's numbers are more phenomenal even still.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Too good. TOO GOOD.

 

[Mustard]

You're fighting a losing battle to get folks to agree with you on this.

As another poaster said, if there is a "sport" where you can be 50, overweight, on the drink, and be the undisputed GOAT, you need to look elsewhere to find an actual contender for the greatest sportsperson.

Because the aforementioned guy would fit that bill about as well as my water bottle fits into the drink holder spot near the steering wheel of the yacht I am currently in.

TL : DR - It's darts ffs.

What about the golfer, Jack Nicklaus? He was called "Fat Jack" in his early days of dominance, mostly from bitter fans of Arnold Palmer. I very seldom see people object to Jack or Tiger Woods being mentioned as sporting greats on so-called grounds that golf isn't a sport.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

A lot of people argue against golf being a sport.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Darts isn't a sport, but not because of its limited exertion. It's because nothing you do directly affects your opponent. For that reason, there are no matchups and your opponent is arbitrary. It isn't a true competition.

 

[CyBorg]

Just tell the OP it's Federer so he can sleep at night.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

What about the golfer, Jack Nicklaus? He was called "Fat Jack" in his early days of dominance, mostly from bitter fans of Arnold Palmer. I very seldom see people object to Jack or Tiger Woods being mentioned as sporting greats on so-called grounds that golf isn't a sport.

Lol at the highlighted bit, and I consider myself to be one of them. :lol:

Golf is much more of a sport than darts.
I think it's the most mentally challenging athletic sport by far.
Tennis would be a distant second.

Also, they play here, rather than here.

 

[Mustard]

Darts isn't a sport, but not because of its limited exertion. It's because nothing you do directly affects your opponent. For that reason, there are no matchups and your opponent is arbitrary. It isn't a true competition.

Completely false. There are matchups in darts. Why was John Part the only player who could give Taylor such trouble in TV events in the mid 2000s, while other top players like Colin Lloyd usually got battered by Taylor almost every time? Darts isn't played in a vacuum, it's about timing and the psychology involved. John Part has a similar mentality to Mats Wilander in tennis, being brilliant at playing the percentages.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Completely false. There are matchups in darts. Why was John Part the only player who could give Taylor such trouble in TV events in the mid 2000s, while other top players like Colin Lloyd usually got battered by Taylor almost every time? Darts isn't played in a vacuum, it's about timing and the psychology involved. John Part has a similar mentality to Mats Wilander in tennis, being brilliant at playing the percentages.

My experience with watching darts is that they shoot for triple 20 every single time until they near the end and have to get whatever number.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Completely false. There are matchups in darts. Why was John Part the only player who could give Taylor such trouble in TV events in the mid 2000s, while other top players like Colin Lloyd usually got battered by Taylor almost every time? Darts isn't played in a vacuum, it's about timing and the psychology involved. John Part has a similar mentality to Mats Wilander in tennis, being brilliant at playing the percentages.

I agree here.

It's mental.

And it'd have to be, because by golly it isn't physical.

 

[Zoid]

Cheers for the signature rep N_N.

Golf is a sport IMO - mentally one of the toughest, and the physicality of it has come a long way in recent times. Tiger Woods, Adam Scott - these guys are specimens now.

You need brilliant feel and touch, power, balance, and nerves of steel.

 

[Mustard]

My experience with watching darts is that they shoot for triple 20 every single time until they near the end and have to get whatever number.

And if they hit the wrong part of the board, they let their opponent in. If you can consistently hit what you need to get over a long period of time, you will get an aura and a fear factor, like any dominant sportsperson. Part knew when a crucial 140 or so shot would hurt his opponent, and when a big checkout would hurt the opponent. That is why he was a danger to Taylor around 10 years ago, while other players weren't.

In tennis, Wilander knew exactly what sort of shots and strategy would hurt his opponent and enable him to get the victory, and he'd seek to carry them out.

 

[Sysyphus]

Lol, this is just legendary stuff coming in this thread—Zoid especially :lol:

I will add that: physically, Golf is not a sport. But it has some serious worldwide competition, so it may enroll as a sport.

Darts on the other hand...

Well, it's darts ffs.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

PLease guys.

Please.

I beg.

Please.

 

[Zoid]

Phil 'The Power' Taylor.

everyone get familiar with the world's greatest ever Sportsperson. A Darts phenom with hawk eyes and a steady hand (after a guinness or two). At 5'8'' and too many lbs, he is an imposing figure at the line.

Mustard please tell me this is all a joke. He's 5'8'', 50+, and borderline obese, and you're trying to not only put him in the conversation, but ABOVE guys like Jordan, Ali, Pele, Jesse Owens etc etc. I think Phil Taylor himself would tell you to put down the whisky and go to bed, son.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

/Thread. Mods please lock and sticky the thread. LOL.

 

[Sysyphus]

Phil 'The Power' Taylor.

everyone get familiar with the world's greatest ever Sportsperson. A Darts phenom with hawk eyes and a steady hand (after a guinness or two). At 5'8'' and too many lbs, he is an imposing figure at the line.

Mustard please tell me this is all a joke. He's 5'8'', 50+, and borderline obese, and you're trying to not only put him in the conversation, but ABOVE guys like Jordan, Ali, Pele, Jesse Owens etc etc. I think Phil Taylor himself would tell you to put down the whisky and go to bed, son.

Oh god, this is simply too much :lol:

 

[Sirius Black]

Phil 'The Power' Taylor.

everyone get familiar with the world's greatest ever Sportsperson. A Darts phenom with hawk eyes and a steady hand (after a guinness or two). At 5'8'' and too many lbs, he is an imposing figure at the line.

Mustard please tell me this is all a joke. He's 5'8'', 50+, and borderline obese, and you're trying to not only put him in the conversation, but ABOVE guys like Jordan, Ali, Pele, Jesse Owens etc etc. I think Phil Taylor himself would tell you to put down the whisky and go to bed, son.

Zoid is the greatest sportsposter of all time.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Who else believed that last night was the pinnacle?


We were wrong.

 

[Sirius Black]

Darts isn't a sport, but not because of its limited exertion. It's because nothing you do directly affects your opponent. For that reason, there are no matchups and your opponent is arbitrary. It isn't a true competition.

I can play connect four with my 4 year old cousin. There are matchups, and what I do directly affects my opponent. Is that a sport?

 

[Sirius Black]

Who else believed that last night was the pinnacle?


We were wrong.

Last night was the most fun I've had here since the Warinko-Lopez thread.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

I can play connect four with my 4 year old cousin. There are matchups, and what I do directly affects my opponent. Is that a sport?

Sirius, please don't go down this route. We both know that the best connect four player is in way better shape than Phil Taylor.

:lol:

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Phil 'The Power' Taylor.

everyone get familiar with the world's greatest ever Sportsperson. A Darts phenom with hawk eyes and a steady hand (after a guinness or two). At 5'8'' and too many lbs, he is an imposing figure at the line.

Mustard please tell me this is all a joke. He's 5'8'', 50+, and borderline obese, and you're trying to not only put him in the conversation, but ABOVE guys like Jordan, Ali, Pele, Jesse Owens etc etc. I think Phil Taylor himself would tell you to put down the whisky and go to bed, son.

Pele is also 5'8". And Messi is like 4'11".

 

[WhiskeyEE]

I can play connect four with my 4 year old cousin. There are matchups, and what I do directly affects my opponent. Is that a sport?

It gets a bit grey with stuff like foosball, but no connect 4 is not as it has to be physical competition.

Ping pong is a sport though. Golf is not.

 

[Zoid]

Pele is also 5'8". And Messi is like 4'11".

Yea, and they make up for it by being lightning quick, incredibly agile, fit, and light on their feet with footwork that would make fed et al., look clumsy. What they lack in height they more than make up for in skill and speed.

If you're gonna be 5'8'', you better not be bald, fat and drunk whilst asking to be put in the 'all-time great sportsman' conversation.

 

[Mustard]

It's funny how this has turned into a hate against the idea of darts being a sport, or criticising Taylor's physical appearance. This has been dragged into the gutter because you cannot argue against what Taylor has achieved in his sport and the dominance that he has had.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

It's been dragged into the world of win. :lol:

Even if I was a die-hard Taylor fan I'd find this funny.. because it is.

Bwahaha.

 

[The Green Mile]

This is so laughable. There isn't a single player who has a winning head-to-head record against Taylor. Not one. He certainly never had a Nadal equivalent as a rival who put one over him so many times.

Which player has the most wins against him? It's probably Raymond Van Barneveld right? I know he has around 10 wins against Phil.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

It's funny how this has turned into a hate against the idea of darts being a sport, or criticising Taylor's physical appearance. This has been dragged into the gutter because you cannot argue against what Taylor has achieved in his sport and the dominance that he has had.

This is what we're taking issue with.

 

[DerekNoleFam1]

For me when we refer to sportsman I believe behaviour (just my opinion) off the field/court comes into play also - hence I would rule out the likes of Woods/Phelps/Ali.

For me Fed & Rafa are up there.

Fed and Rafa have been very dominant in tennis no doubt. Nadal's domination of RG is up there with that seen in any sport, ever- 66-1 and 9 titles.
Agree with those 1st 3 as well.
Phelps in particular is my pick, nobody has dominated across so many events like he did.
Don Bradman was almost twice as good as anyone at cricket, so has to be included.
And if we are including darts players, then we have to include billiards players like Walter Lindrum;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Lindrum

 

[Zoid]

It's funny how this has turned into a hate against the idea of darts being a sport, or criticising Taylor's physical appearance. This has been dragged into the gutter because you cannot argue against what Taylor has achieved in his sport and the dominance that he has had.

I just googled the definition of 'sport' and the first one is this:

"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

Darts barely meets the definition. Sure it takes a lot of skill and is entertaining after a drink or 10, but Mustard, i'm honestly only poking fun because the notion is kind of ridiculous don't you think?

Thousands of athletes everyday bust their arse to get 1% better physically in order to just compete with the best in their chosen field. Cyclists push their bodies to incredible extremes and have the mental fortitude to overcome extreme pain everyday.

Tyler Hamilton grinded 11 of his teeth down to the nerve after breaking his collarbone in an early tour de france stage and finished. That is incredible, the kind of ATHLETE, mentally and physically, required to do that is incredible.

There are too many other sports out there that require as much, and usually more skill than darts, and then require an incredible physical component as well. On top of this, your competition is not limited to men who hang out in bars.

How many junior darts comps go on around the world?

Fed, Rafa, Jordan, Pele - these guys practiced their craft for hours and hours since they were young boys to become what they are.

Novak was an incredibly skilled player, and he was a great athletes - but had to lift his athleticism EVEN HIGHER in order to start winning in his chosen field.

For this reason, whilst Phil Taylor has dominated his game against the few men who choose to play darts, he simply cannot be placed along side the greats who deserve mention in this conversation.

 

[Sirius Black]

When I grow up I want to be a dartsman.

 

[Zoid]

When I grow up I want to be a dartsman.

said no one. Ever.

 

[Starbuckingham]

There is no "All Time".
Time has not finished yet.

 

[Captain Ron]

Is Phil Taylor FINNISH?

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Fed and Rafa have been very dominant in tennis no doubt. Nadal's domination of RG is up there with that seen in any sport, ever- 66-1 and 9 titles.
Agree with those 1st 3 as well.
Phelps in particular is my pick, nobody has dominated across so many events like he did.
Don Bradman was almost twice as good as anyone at cricket, so has to be included.
And if we are including darts players, then we have to include billiards players like Walter Lindrum;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Lindrum

Maybe if they awarded 600 medals across 200 events in wrestling like they do in swimming, Karelin could've been as dominant as Phelps.

 

[Sysyphus]

Maybe if they awarded 600 medals across 200 events in wrestling like they do in swimming, Karelin could've been as dominant as Phelps.

Swimming is a global sport. Big stuff. Wrestling is so small it will supposedly get removed from the olympics.

Also, different disciplines in swimming are vastly different. No need to hate on Phelps for so greatly outperforming all other greats in his sports. Really. Look at the stats.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Swimming is a global sport. Big stuff. Wrestling is so small it will supposedly get removed from the olympics.

Also, different disciplines in swimming are vastly different. No need to hate on Phelps for so greatly outperforming all other greats in his sports. Really. Look at the stats.

I have nothing against Phelps, but the fact is that other athletes do not have the option of competing in 8 separate events like he does.

And actually wrestling is a very global sport. It has massive sports programs even in the US. Its consideration for removal has to do with it not being spectator friendly.

Karelin was the best at 3 consecutive Olympics. Phelps 2.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Maybe if they awarded 600 medals across 200 events in wrestling like they do in swimming, Karelin could've been as dominant as Phelps.

Makes you wonder actually how Phelps underachieved as much as he did. He won what, 6, 8 and 4 gold medals in the Athens, Beijing and London Olympics respectively?? He's only won 3% of the available disciplines across those two Olympiads.

 

[Sirius Black]

said no one. Ever.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/4c06d4f62a39941311e1f76a91704d32/tumblr_n9tnhnGl6h1t1047bo1_500.gif

 

[BringBackSV]

A lot of people argue against golf being a sport.

Incorrectly so but yes. There are fat baseball players too, and football players.

 

[Sirius Black]

Makes you wonder actually how Phelps underachieved as much as he did. He won what, 6 and 8 gold medals in the Beijing and London Olympics respectively?? He's only won 3.5% of the available disciplines across those two Olympiads.

Didn't he win 8 in Beijing?

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Didn't he win 8 in Beijing?

Oh yes, I got them mixed up, right? Will edit.

 

[Sysyphus]

I have nothing against Phelps, but the fact is that other athletes do not have the option of competing in 8 separate events like he does.

And actually wrestling is a very global sport. It has massive sports programs even in the US. Its consideration for removal has to do with it not being spectator friendly.

Karelin was the best at 3 consecutive Olympics. Phelps 2.

Derp. Phelps was the most successful swimmer in 2004, 2008 and 2012.

And no. Wrestling is marginalized in comparison to swimming. The removal is partly because of the public, but in no way is that aspect completely unrelated to the general popularity/spread of the sport.

 

[DerekNoleFam1]

Phelps actually won 6 Golds in Athens, 8 in Beijing and 4 in London.
His 8 at Beijing eclipsed Mark Spitz as the biggest haul at a single Olympics.