Have Nadal and Djokovic had greater competition in slams than Federer?

[mike danny]

Do you think Nadal was playing poorly? I mean maybe compared to his 2012 god form but he was still playing well. Djokovic was dialed in after the SF and Nadal pretty much routined him outside of that one stretch where Novak was straight treeing and he dropped off a bit. 12 Nadal was insane. I think 10 Nadal gets slept on just because he didn't beat one of Djokerer.

Well, the muddy conditions certainly gave Djokovic an edge, otherwise I feel Nadal would have won in straights.

That's why I said that it wasn't just Djokovic GOIATING. The muddy conditions allowed him to GOAT in the first place.

 

[mike danny]

The only thing that keeps Feds competition back a tad for me is his years before the other 3 got going. He had Nadal starting in 2005.

So, just 2003-2004?

 

[DjokoLand]

Well Federer had 12 slams before Nadal was at his best and 16 before Djokovic was. Too be fair they all combine for 57 slams every opposition bar themselves is easy enough for them. They all had periods where they far away the best player on tour, maybe not Nadal overall but Clay for say 15 years

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Fair point and I agree with that.
They have gone off the rails man.
Complete mental breakdown.
It is like a swarm of locusts at this point.
When they get on a thread you can kiss it goodbye.
Eaten to the roots.

Machan ... being a Sampras fan has one advantage in that I can understand exactly what the Federer fans are going through When Sampras' records were broken by Federer, I was completely dismayed and unable to come to terms with it for a long time.

Now fast forward a few years and you have Federer who didn't just break Sampras' records but left Sampras so far back, you thought nobody would ever catch him. But here Federer is and his records are getting broken right before his eyes while he is still playing! It's just tough for fans to swallow. As you rightly said, complete mental breakdown.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

I had to step away. A Fed fan got to me and I hate it when one of them causes me to lose my temper.
They are not worth the time or energy.

Super, welcome back and let the battles begin

 

[swordtennis]

Machan ... being a Sampras fan has one advantage in that I can understand exactly what the Federer fans are going through When Sampras' records were broken by Federer, I was completely dismayed and unable to come to terms with it for a long time.

Now fast forward a few years and you have Federer who didn't just break Sampras' records but left Sampras so far back, you thought nobody would ever catch him. But here Federer is and his records are getting broken right before his eyes while he is still playing! It's just tough for fans to swallow. As you rightly said, complete mental breakdown.

Totally.
I was a huge Connors, Sampras and Agassi Fan yet when Fed blew them away I never had a temper tantrum.
I was like wow this guy is greater and accepted it when Fed got 15.
Just part of the game.
Fed was my favorite for a long time until I saw Djokovic play IW 2007.
Just like the 2hb and the baseline style of Djokovic the best.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Totally.
I was a huge Connors, Sampras and Agassi Fan yet when Fed blew them away I never had a temper tantrum.
I was like wow this guy is greater and accepted it when Fed got 15.
Just part of the game.
Fed was my favorite for a long time until I saw Djokovic play IW 2007.
Just like the 2hb and the baseline style of Djokovic the best.

Great post!

 

[Sunny014]

He already won 12 majors by the time Nadal matured off of clay though, and was at 16 by the time Nole entered his prime. Djokodal both had to fight through him (and each other) to get to where they are.

A 5-6 years older and physically inferior version of him,.

 

[Hood_Man]

When Federer's wheels started to fall off in 2008 there was a next gen ready and waiting to overtake him, and the previous generation had long been beaten into retirement by him and his peers.

When Djokovic's wheels fell off at the end of 2016... the previous generation dominated the sport for 18 months.

Y'all hate it when that's pointed out but it's true.

 

[ForehandRF]

If 2004-2006 would have been that weak, like detractors say, then 2005-2006 Nadal should have had no problem reaching Federer on HC slams.They weren't that weak after all and I like the "fully mature" excuse, from the same posters who are quick to point out the age excuse from the Fed fanbase.Double standards much ? If Nadal needed to fully mature, in order to reach slam finals on hc, then Fed's hardcourt opposition wasn't weak.

 

[ForehandRF]

@Sunny Ali Indeed, this competition thing has been beaten to death and next comes Federer's record against Djokovic in Wimbledon Finals.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Thiem is stronger than Safin because he shows up more consistently, and Tsitsipas is def. stronger than Baggy

And 30 - 35 yo Agassi is stronger than current Tsitsipas. What's your point?

 

[Deleted member 744633]

@Sunny Ali Indeed, this competition thing has been beaten to death and next comes Federer's record against Djokovic in Wimbledon Finals.

LOL X 10,000! Brilliant Machan Guilty as charged

 

[steenkash]

Federer had it tougher, he had to face 1-slam Roddick, Marco The Beat Baghdhatis and Mighty Mark Philippoussis in some of his finals

 

[mike danny]

Federer had it tougher, he had to face 1-slam Roddick, Marco The Beat Baghdhatis and Mighty Mark Philippoussis in some of his finals

Better than Anderson and Thiem.

 

[mike danny]

And 30 - 35 yo Agassi is stronger than current Tsitsipas. What's your point?

Yeah, 35 year old Andre had better stamina after 3 five setters than 22.5 year old Tsitsipas. Embarrassing.

 

[steenkash]

Better than Anderson and Thiem.

Wait, I also forgot about One Shot Gonzalez LMFAO

 

[mike danny]

If 2004-2006 would have been that weak, like detractors say, then 2005-2006 Nadal should have had no problem reaching Federer on HC slams.They weren't that weak after all and I like the "fully mature" excuse, from the same posters who are quick to point out the age excuse from the Fed fanbase.Double standards much ? If Nadal needed to fully mature, in order to reach slam finals on hc, then Fed's hardcourt opposition wasn't weak.

This, so much this. They can't have it both ways.

If the then no.2 Nadal couldn't reach a HC slam final for 4 years, Fed's HC competition clearly wasn't weak. Otherwise, we'd be hearing how baby clay courter Nadal was able to reach HC slam finals LMAO.

 

[mike danny]

Wait, I also forgot about One Shot Gonzalez LMFAO

You also forgot about Hewitt, Safin, Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi.

But that's ok. Clearly Baghdatis is more important than those. And Karatsev too.

 

[steenkash]

You also forgot about Hewitt, Safin, Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi.

But that's ok. Clearly Baghdatis is more important than those. And Karatsev too.

Fed did a decent job against a 90 year old Agassi who had been in and out of the care home tbh, will give him that

 

[mike danny]

Fed did a decent job against a 90 year old Agassi who had been in and out of the care home tbh, will give him that

Yeah, true. I gotta credit Djokovic too for doing a good job against a Fed who was barely able to get out of bed to play those slam finals on a Sunday like every other pensioner.

 

[steenkash]

Yeah, true. I gotta credit Djokovic too for doing a good job against a Fed who was barely able to get out of bed to play those slam finals on a Sunday like every other pensioner.

Federer had to go to church those Sundays tbh, to pray to his god Djokovic, so I can understand why he didn't want to wake up for those slams <3

 

[Deleted member 775898]

Nadal lost to Verdasco at Madrid.
Novak GOATing will still not get him 8 games in a row if Nadal is playing well in that stretch.
Its not that Nadal lost that 3rd set, its that he lost 8 games in a row.

I think he meant to say no set lost on red clay.

 

[Deleted member 775898]

Well, Djoker is about to win the Karatsev Open, so...
All of them had harder and easier Slams, so at the end of the day, all this competition talk is kinda pointless.

 

[PETEhammer]

And 30 - 35 yo Agassi is stronger than current Tsitsipas. What's your point?

and 20-30 year old Agassi is stronger than all of them (save prime/Prince Nole) on hards bahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[PETEhammer]

That's a good point but that can be easily countered by the Federer fans by pointing out the current competition which lacks any potential all-time great. What Federer enjoyed in the period 2003-2005 (lack of an all-time great competitor), Nadal/Djokovic are enjoying now so all said and done, things get balanced out. I don't think any of them has had an unfair advantage over the others in terms of competition but the Federer fans are beating that point to death and I'm getting tired of it.

03-06, baby Nadal off-clay doesn't really count as an ATG imo

But yeah it's hilarious how much they push this stuff when they ridiculed Sampras fans and acted so much the victim when Samp fans brought up Fed's weak era. Now they're doing it for the ATG about to pass their guy, which shows they never had a problem with the Weak Era talk on any principle, but just because it was directed to their guy.

Sad.

 

[RS]

Wait, I also forgot about One Shot Gonzalez LMFAO

Gonzo was a monster in AO 07.

 

[PETEhammer]

Well Federer had 12 slams before Nadal was at his best and 16 before Djokovic was. Too be fair they all combine for 57 slams every opposition bar themselves is easy enough for them. They all had periods where they far away the best player on tour, maybe not Nadal overall but Clay for say 15 years

Nadal was the undeniable best of 2008/09/10

 

[Third Serve]

Nadal was the undeniable best of 2008/09/10

Fed was better overall in 2009. Nadal couldn't maintain his form the whole year.

 

[PETEhammer]

This, so much this. They can't have it both ways.

If the then no.2 Nadal couldn't reach a HC slam final for 4 years, Fed's HC competition clearly wasn't weak. Otherwise, we'd be hearing how baby clay courter Nadal was able to reach HC slam finals LMAO.

He was a claycourt Specialist adapting to the tour off his best surface, and still younger than Federer was when he won his first hardcourt major (22 v 23), staaaaaahpppp this nonsense

 

[RS]

Sampras never faced anybody as good as Nadal at RG at his best.

 

[PETEhammer]

Fed was better overall in 2009. Nadal couldn't maintain his form the whole year.

Sure, but everyone knew what a lifeline Feddy was thrown that year is my point. If Rafa had maintained his form he would have beaten everyone at slams.

 

[PETEhammer]

Sampras never faced anybody as good as Nadal at RG at his best.

Federer lost every match to Nadal at RG so what's the big deal? Sampras could do that too. Heck, so could I.

 

[RS]

Federer lost every match to Nadal at RG so what's the big deal? Sampras could do that too. Heck, so could I.

It counts as competition even so.

 

[PETEhammer]

It counts as competition even so.

So I'm supposed to throw Feddy a bone because of one guy who ensured he didn't get a free pass to the @CYGS every single year? Yeah, NO. Lmao.

 

[RS]

So I'm supposed to throw Feddy a bone because of one guy who ensured he didn't get a free pass to the @CYGS every single year? Yeah, NO. Lmao.

Yes and Federer was a better clay player than Pete as well.

 

[PETEhammer]

Yes and Federer was a better clay player than Pete as well.

Got destroyed by broken hipped Kuerten while having one of the best seasons in history. RG clay is also faster these days than during Pete's time. And Pete played clay specialists, Fed played hardcourters on clay, aside from Rafa who destroyed him

Anyways thread is about Djokodal and Fed's competition, so nice deflect ROFLMAO!!!

 

[Third Serve]

Got destroyed by broken hipped Kuerten while having one of the best seasons in history. RG clay is also faster these days than during Pete's time. And Pete played clay specialists, Fed played hardcourters on clay, aside from Rafa who destroyed him

Anyways thread is about Djokodal and Fed's competition, so nice deflect ROFLMAO!!!

lmao you're not actually making the argument for Pete being a better clay player than Fed, are you?

 

[Deleted member 744633]

03-06, baby Nadal off-clay doesn't really count as an ATG imo

But yeah it's hilarious how much they push this stuff when they ridiculed Sampras fans and acted so much the victim when Samp fans brought up Fed's weak era. Now they're doing it for the ATG about to pass their guy, which shows they never had a problem with the Weak Era talk on any principle, but just because it was directed to their guy.

Sad.

Nailed it! 100% agreed, Hammer!

 

[RS]

Got destroyed by broken hipped Kuerten while having one of the best seasons in history. RG clay is also faster these days than during Pete's time. And Pete played clay specialists, Fed played hardcourters on clay, aside from Rafa who destroyed him

Anyways thread is about Djokodal and Fed's competition, so nice deflect ROFLMAO!!!

Kuerten was on fire that day.

Clay is a bit faster but Pete was still worse. Nadal as a rival is tougher than specialists most times even if the CC field was less deep.

 

[PETEhammer]

lmao you're not actually making the argument for Pete being a better clay player than Fed, are you?

Gap is prolly not as big as we think is all I'm saying.

And, please, stay on topic.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Federer lost every match to Nadal at RG so what's the big deal? Sampras could do that too. Heck, so could I.

LOL X 10,000! Peach of a post!

 

[Third Serve]

Gap is prolly not as big as we think is all I'm saying.

And, please, stay on topic.

As I've mentioned before, tangents of a few posts or so are completely natural in a forum like this, so shutting them down like so is kind of a waste of breath. Besides, I'm merely continuing the topic that was started up several posts ago.

btw, I see you FFW

 

[Julian Houston]

Federer is the pioneer whom improvised consistent all court tennis. He started everything hence he deserved all the slams even if is weak era. His style made everyone weak.

 

[PETEhammer]

As I've mentioned before, tangents of a few posts or so are completely natural in a forum like this, so shutting them down like so is kind of a waste of breath. Besides, I'm merely continuing the topic that was started up several posts ago.

btw, I see you FFW

Natural for you perhaps. The rest of us are trying to have a serious, mature discussion. Please feel free to join us.

 

[PETEhammer]

Federer is the pioneer whom improvised consistent all court tennis. He started everything hence he deserved all the slams even if is weak era. His style made everyone weak.

This is a reasonable perspective imo
Fed clearly pioneered a new way to play, just too bad the tour didn't go more into the baseline/all court direction instead of grinder/counterpuncher territory

 

[Third Serve]

Natural for you perhaps. The rest of us are trying to have a serious, mature discussion. Please feel free to join us.

In a weak era thread? Nonsense.

It was doomed from the start.

 

[Julian Houston]

This is a reasonable perspective imo
Fed clearly pioneered a new way to play, just too bad the tour didn't go more into the baseline/all court direction instead of grinder/counterpuncher territory

He still can improve by training more defensive skills, focused too much on attacking. I felt he stopped developing after 2006 and 2017, its one of the things he should have done to become the best by far. The competition overtook him by 2011. He needs better defense as his serve and ground strokes are good enough to hurt anyone. Many points he needs to slide and push.

 

[PETEhammer]

He still can improve by training more defensive skills, focused too much on attacking. I felt he stopped developing after 2006 and 2017, its one of the things he should have done to become the best by far. The competition overtook him by 2011. He needs better defense as his serve and ground strokes are good enough to hurt anyone. Many points he needs to slide and push.

Favorite Fed forehand is '08 bazooka when he went for it. Favorite Fed overall is 2017erer. Driving every point, taking the ball early yet hitting heavy, backhand an offensive weapon, and finishing points at net. It was too good to last.

As perfect all court aggression as we've seen in the Slow Court Era

 

[mike danny]

He still can improve by training more defensive skills, focused too much on attacking. I felt he stopped developing after 2006 and 2017, its one of the things he should have done to become the best by far. The competition overtook him by 2011. He needs better defense as his serve and ground strokes are good enough to hurt anyone. Many points he needs to slide and push.

He did improve though. Do you really think he would have beaten Djokovic in 2011 and had the season he had in 2012 is he hadn't?

The competition overtook him in 2011 because it was really tough. It wasn't 30 year old Federer against Tsitsipas and Medvedev. It was 30 year old Federer against peak Djokodal.