Did Alcaraz defeat peak Djokovic or was this an incredibly weak era?

[weakera]

Other than against Nadal, Djokovic *had* been approx. 110-3 at slams since Wimbledon 2018, if I'm not mistaken:

AO: 28-0
RG: 29-1 (Thiem)
W: 34-0
USO: 19-2 (Wawrinka, Medvedev)


So, clearly Djokovic has been in virtually unbeatable form, which means Alcaraz defeated Djokovic in virtually unbeatable form, which means peak Alcaraz > peak Djokovic.

Or, Djokovic's unbelievable record at grand slams in recent years was the product of a very, very weak era in terms of competition.

What do you think

 

[pj80]

Other than against Nadal, Djokovic *had* been approx. 110-3 at slams since Wimbledon 2018, if I'm not mistaken:

AO: 28-0
RG: 29-1 (Thiem)
W: 34-0
USO: 19-2 (Wawrinka, Medvedev)


So, clearly Djokovic has been in virtually unbeatable form, which means Alcaraz defeated Djokovic in virtually unbeatable form, which means peak Alcaraz > peak Djokovic.

Or, Djokovic's unbelievable record at grand slams in recent years was the product of a very, very weak era in terms of competition.

What do you think

Alcaraz > Djokovic > Federer > Nadal...is that what you are implying with this one match?

Why not say Medvedev, Thiem and Wawrinka are better than Djo since they beat him too

 

[weakera]

Alcaraz > Djokovic > Federer > Nadal...is that what you are implying with this one match?

Why not say Medvedev, Thiem and Wawrinka are better than Djo since they beat him too

Why haven't you voted yet?

 

[pj80]

Why haven't you voted yet?

I think 2015 Djokovic was better than this version...although this version is very high level

 

[ghostofMecir]

Other than against Nadal, Djokovic *had* been approx. 110-3 at slams since Wimbledon 2018, if I'm not mistaken:

AO: 28-0
RG: 29-1 (Thiem)
W: 34-0
USO: 19-2 (Wawrinka, Medvedev)


So, clearly Djokovic has been in virtually unbeatable form, which means Alcaraz defeated Djokovic in virtually unbeatable form, which means peak Alcaraz > peak Djokovic.

Or, Djokovic's unbelievable record at grand slams in recent years was the product of a very, very weak era in terms of competition.

What do you think

Wilander and Djokofam a few days ago, said that this was the best Djokovic has ever played with a great serve, and more on the forehand And of course all that experience and practice. Peakovic lost to 20 year old Carlitos. Had Carlitos arrived on the scene few years back then Djokovic wouldn’t have had the inflated résumé that he has now.

 

[weakera]

Wilander and Djokofam a few days ago, said that this was the best Djokovic has ever played with a great serve, and more on the forehand And of course all that experience and practice. Peakovic lost to 20 year old Carlitos. Had Carlitos arrived on the scene figures back then Djokovic wouldn’t have had the inflated résumé that he has now.

I'm inclined to agree. The difference of difficulty in facing Alcaraz in the Final versus someone like Kyrgios or Berrettini is unbelievably vast.

 

[pj80]

Wilander and Djokofam a few days ago, said that this was the best Djokovic has ever played with a great serve, and more on the forehand And of course all that experience and practice. Peakovic lost to 20 year old Carlitos. Had Carlitos arrived on the scene figures back then Djokovic wouldn’t have had the inflated résumé that he has now.

Neither would Fed in 2003-2007...if Djo and Rafa...or even Alcaraz showed up earlier in that era....would Pete, Andre or Borg win as many if they showed up even earlier than that? We will never know. All we are left is the current numbers.

 

[pj80]

I'm inclined to agree. The difference of difficulty in facing Alcaraz in the Final versus someone like Kyrgios or Berrettini is unbelievably vast.

Alcaraz was in the draw last year.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Neither would Fed in 2003-2007...if Djo and Rafa...or even Alcaraz showed up earlier in that era....would Pete, Andre or Borg win as many if they showed up even earlier than that? We will never know. All we are left is the current numbers.

Federer played against TWO younger all time greats for like 13 years. Novak has for two slams.

 

[weakera]

Alcaraz was in the draw last year.

True, but he wasn't nearly as good as he is now, obviously you recognize this lol?

 

[ghostofMecir]

Alcaraz was in the draw last year.

Baby Alcaraz, kind of like what Djokofans say about 2007-2010 Djoko as that doesn’t count.

 

[weakera]

Federer played against TWO younger all time greats for like 13 years. Novak has for two slams.

Exactly.

 

[weakera]

Baby Alcaraz, kind of like what Djokofans say about 2007-2010 Djoko as that doesn’t count.

LOL, exactly, according to their timeline, Alcaraz has four years to go until his matches begin counting

 

[pj80]

True, but he wasn't nearly as good as he is now, obviously you recognize this lol?

So, what should have the Wimbledon committee done? Postpone the 2022 edition until Alcaraz is ready? We could say the same about any slam Fed or Rafa won...what if Alcaraz was there instead of Cilic...or 2019 Medvedev.

 

[pj80]

Federer played against TWO younger all time greats for like 13 years. Novak has for two slams.

And Djo played against 2 all time greats since he was a teenager...

 

[weakera]

So, what should have the Wimbledon committee done? Postpone the 2022 edition until Alcaraz is ready? We could say the same about any slam Fed or Rafa won...what if Alcaraz was there instead of Cilic...or 2019 Medvedev.

You're right, there's nothing to have been done, Djokovic could only play the competition in front of him. That doesn't invalidate my question in the OP though lol...

Also 2019 Medvedev had won 12 matches in a row, reached the Finals of Toronto and won Cincinnati and would then go on to win Shanghai next. And then we saw how he brutalized Djokovic in a US Open Final, so I'd consider him a plenty strong US Open Final opponent.

 

[mike danny]

Crazy how with all the moderns medicine in the world, Djoker still hasn't been immune to losing to teenagers and 20 year olds just like other greats from the past.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Crazy how with all the moderns medicine in the world, Djoker still hasn't been immune to losing to teenagers and 20 year olds just like other greats from the past.

 

[ghostofMecir]

And Djo played against 2 all time greats since he was a teenager...

One who is six years older than he is, and another one who is about the same age. It’s not the same thing—throughout the history of the sport of tennis, younger:all-time greats defeat older all-time greats, almost all the time at slams.

Since 1980, 30+ year old ATGs are 7-37 When facing younger all-time greats (at least 3 years younger) in slam QFs/SFs/Fs

• Federer: 3W—10L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0W—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

If you count Murray as an ATG, it’s 10 W, 38L.

• Federer: 6W—11L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 Wimby SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1982 USO F
—Connors beat Lendl, 1983 USO F
—Connors lost to McEnroe, RG 1984 SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1984 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe. 1984 Wimby Fs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1984 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Edberg, 1985 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 RG SFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Becker, 1987 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1987 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1988 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Edberg, 1989 Wimby QF
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1989 USO QFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1990 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO SFs
—Lendl Beat Edberg, 1991 AO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Becker, 1991 AO Fs
—Connors Lost to Courier, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 AO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Agassi, 1992 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 USO QFs
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2004 USO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 AO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 USO F
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2011 USO SFs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2012 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Djokovic, 2012 Wimby SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2012 Wimby Fs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Murray, 2013 AO, SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2014 AO QFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2014 AO SFs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2014 Wimby Fs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2015 Wimby SFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Djokovic. 2015 Wimby Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2015 USO Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2016 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2017 AO Fs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2019 RG SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2019 Wimbledon SFs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2019 Wimbledon Fs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2020 AO SFs

 

[weakera]

One who is six years older than he is, and another one who is about the same age. It’s not the same thing throughout the history of the sport of tennis, younger, all-time, greats, defeat, older all-time greats, almost all the time at slams.

Since 1980, 30+ year old ATGs are 7-37 When facing younger all-time greats (at least 3 years younger) in slam QFs/SFs/Fs

• Federer: 3W—10L
• Connors: 3W—11L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0W—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

If you count Murray as an ATG, it’s 10 W, 38L.

• Federer: 6W—11L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 Wimby SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1982 USO F
—Connors beat Lendl, 1983 USO F
—Connors lost to McEnroe, RG 1984 SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1984 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe. 1984 Wimby Fs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1984 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Edberg, 1985 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 RG SFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Becker, 1987 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1987 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1988 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Edberg, 1989 Wimby QF
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1989 USO QFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1990 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO SFs
—Lendl Beat Edberg, 1991 AO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Becker, 1991 AO Fs
—Connors Lost to Courier, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 AO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Agassi, 1992 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 USO QFs
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2004 USO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 AO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 USO F
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2011 USO SFs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2012 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Djokovic, 2012 Wimby SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2012 Wimby Fs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Murray, 2013 AO, SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2014 AO QFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2014 AO SFs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2014 Wimby Fs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2015 Wimby SFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Djokovic. 2015 Wimby Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2015 USO Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2016 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2017 AO Fs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2019 RG SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2019 Wimbledon SFs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2019 Wimbledon Fs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2020 AO SFs

In terms of younger competition, no one has ever had it easier than Djokovic.

 

[pj80]

You're right, there's nothing to have been done, Djokovic could only play the competition in front of him. That doesn't invalidate my question in the OP though lol...

Well, it is or was easier for Djo to win slams in recent years due to Fed and Rafa being mostly absent (although I don't think Rafa being there would make much of a difference since he owned Rafa away from clay, and he beat him in 2021 fair and square to win RG21).
But I do think -other than big 3- these new guys of today like Alcaraz, Medvedev, Zverev, Sinner, Tsitsipas and Thiem are much better and more difficult to beat than those players competing in the 2003-2018 period...guys like Roddick, Bagdathis, Nalbandian, Raonic, Nishikori, Berdych.
So, it was more difficult only because Rafa, Fed and Djo were still playing motivated and high-level tennis and were basically splitting majors.

 

[weakera]

Well, it is or was easier for Djo to win slams in recent years due to Fed and Rafa being mostly absent (although I don't think Rafa being there would make much of a difference since he owned Rafa away from clay, and he beat him in 2021 fair and square to win RG21).
But I do think -other than big 3- these new guys of today like Alcaraz, Medvedev, Zverev, Sinner, Tsitsipas and Thiem are much better and more difficult to beat than those players competing in the 2003-2018 period...guys like Roddick, Bagdathis, Nalbandian, Raonic, Nishikori, Berdych.
So, it was more difficult only because Rafa, Fed and Djo were still playing motivated and high-level tennis and were basically splitting majors.

I don't think anyone has had it easier than Djokovic over the last few years, even Federer during 2004-2006. That's why Djokovic has found most of his success after 2018, even if his fans try to claim that it's because he's better than ever somehow.

 

[Nole_King]

In terms of younger competition, no one has ever had it easier than Djokovic.

Can you explain which was the more difficult younger competition that Nadal faced and Djokovic didn't?

 

[pj80]

I don't think anyone has had it easier than Djokovic over the last few years, even Federer during 2004-2006. That's why Djokovic has found most of his success after 2018, even if his fans try to claim that it's because he's better than ever somehow.

Imo...these guys Medvedev, Thiem, Zverev, Sinner, Tsitsipas are much harder to beat than anything Fed faced in 2003-2006 period (other than teenage Rafa) ...I believe this Djokovic or 2021 Djokovic...if replaced with Fed would steamroll all 4 slams in 2003, 2004.

 

[Subway Tennis]

Being the last to peak of the Big 3 was the biggest advantage Djokovic had imo. Part of that is good fortune but he was also very shrewd with managing his body.

When Nadal and Federer were going to war in big finals and thrilling us, Novak was drawing energy from the Pyramids of Visoko and carefully biding his time. What good can come from trying to beat Federer or even Murray in their primes on grass? That fight was left to Rafa, which Nadal took up with ever fibre of his body.

The enduring thing for me about Djokovic is how gracefully he aged 30+ and leveraged his experience rather than what he was like in his peak athletic years. Except for 2011. That was pretty special. Not YoungDal special, but pretty impressive.

 

[aldeayeah]

Alcaraz defeated a good level Djokovic, albeit visibly hampered by the windy conditions.

Current Djokovic is obviously not nearly as good as his 2011 or 2015 self. Still an all-time great of course.

The current era is definitely lacking in top level talent. On grass in recent years, in particular, Djokovic has been a fox in the henhouse.

 

[paolo2143]

Where is the most sensible option "Alcaraz beat a very good Djokovic in an era similar to 2003-07"

 

[MichaelNadal]

Alcaraz defeated a good level Djokovic, albeit visibly hampered by the windy conditions.

Current Djokovic is obviously not nearly as good as his 2011 or 2015 self. Still an all time great of course.

Poor Novak, not getting his fishtank conditions lol

 

[paolo2143]

Yep Novak from 2011 or indeed 2018-2023 would have cake walked slam after slam between 2003 and 2010. Only Rafa stopping him at RG and Roger might have say won 2 out of 4/5 Wimbledon finals with him.

 

[aldeayeah]

Poor Novak, not getting his fishtank conditions lol

It's not like it's the first or second time this happens

 

[robthai]

to be fair to Djokovic, the margins were quite slim. I think he goes on to win the match if he didn't lose that tiebreak. But that's what happens when your opponent is younger and playing at an equal level. They punish any crucial mistakes, something the lost gens were incapable of.

 

[weakera]

Poor Novak, not getting his fishtank conditions lol

There are really bots who have been loudly complaining about the roof not being closed

 

[WYK]

One who is six years older than he is, and another one who is about the same age. It’s not the same thing throughout the history of the sport of tennis, younger, all-time, greats, defeat, older all-time greats, almost all the time at slams.

Since 1980, 30+ year old ATGs are 7-37 When facing younger all-time greats (at least 3 years younger) in slam QFs/SFs/Fs

• Federer: 3W—10L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0W—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

If you count Murray as an ATG, it’s 10 W, 38L.

• Federer: 6W—11L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 Wimby SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1982 USO F
—Connors beat Lendl, 1983 USO F
—Connors lost to McEnroe, RG 1984 SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1984 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe. 1984 Wimby Fs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1984 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Edberg, 1985 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 RG SFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Becker, 1987 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1987 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1988 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Edberg, 1989 Wimby QF
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1989 USO QFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1990 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO SFs
—Lendl Beat Edberg, 1991 AO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Becker, 1991 AO Fs
—Connors Lost to Courier, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 AO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Agassi, 1992 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 USO QFs
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2004 USO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 AO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 USO F
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2011 USO SFs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2012 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Djokovic, 2012 Wimby SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2012 Wimby Fs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Murray, 2013 AO, SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2014 AO QFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2014 AO SFs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2014 Wimby Fs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2015 Wimby SFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Djokovic. 2015 Wimby Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2015 USO Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2016 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2017 AO Fs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2019 RG SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2019 Wimbledon SFs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2019 Wimbledon Fs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2020 AO SFs

You forgot the most massive example - Federer VS Sampras at Wimbledon, the only real example of old school vs modern player on an old school court(and Fed had to work for it):

Year	Event	Surface	RND	Winner	Result
2001	Wimbledon England	Outdoor Grass	R16	Roger Federer	767 57 64 672 75

Roger Federer VS Pete Sampras | Head 2 Head | H2H | ATP Tour | Tennis

Head to head records for players in men's professional tennis. View rivalry results and stats for matches on the ATP Tour.

www.atptour.com

The only value the term 'weak era' has is on message boards and on a bar stool. Outside of this, it is not only meaningless, but does not even exist.

 

[Subway Tennis]

He was the only one with the talent to take advantage, no one else could have. This wasn't the first time Djokovic didn't play great in the last several years, but no one else could punish him.

Remember those powder puff Djokovic second serves in the AO final? Everyone was wondering why Tsitsipas wasn’t punishing them.

Then when Tsitsipas actually started to hit big on the forehand he was hitting 2m long.

What we needed was a guy who could put the pieces together in Bo5 and Djokovic suddenly looks like a very good, but human, tennis player.

 

[FeroBango]

LOL, exactly, according to their timeline, Alcaraz has four years to go until his matches begin counting

Not all of them. Plenty of sane Nole fans exist here, but this made me lol.

 

[NeutralFan]

I don't think anyone has had it easier than Djokovic over the last few years, even Federer during 2004-2006. That's why Djokovic has found most of his success after 2018, even if his fans try to claim that it's because he's better than ever somehow.

15 slams after 27, if that's not weakest then don't know what's weakest

 

[MichaelNadal]

He was the only one with the talent to take advantage, no one else could have. This wasn't the first time Djokovic didn't play great in the last several years, but no one else could punish him.

He has straight up looked like a zombie just straight up waiting to be taken out so many times just for his opponents to forget how to play tennis. Even this tournament, Hurkacz and Sinner, ball right INTO that net

 

[aldeayeah]

Djokovic has made a career out of making guys like Sinner look like fools.

Charlie may be sloppy and inefficient at times, but unlike other young players, he's got the full toolset and the athleticism to make it matter.

 

[junior74]

Djokovic hasn't been truly great in Wimbledon since 2015, as I see it.

2018 >= 2019 > 2023 > > > '21 and '22 ... but very far from peak Djokovic, no matter what Eurosport says

Saying it again: Djokovic' biggest prowess is his ability to win despite playing well below his best. Super strong mentally, great ability to adjust and physically above everyone else.

Alcaraz overcame one of the strongest minds in tennis ever. A big achievement, no doubt about that.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Option 1

 

[tex123]

Other than against Nadal, Djokovic *had* been approx. 110-3 at slams since Wimbledon 2018, if I'm not mistaken:

AO: 28-0
RG: 29-1 (Thiem)
W: 34-0
USO: 19-2 (Wawrinka, Medvedev)


So, clearly Djokovic has been in virtually unbeatable form, which means Alcaraz defeated Djokovic in virtually unbeatable form, which means peak Alcaraz > peak Djokovic.

Or, Djokovic's unbelievable record at grand slams in recent years was the product of a very, very weak era in terms of competition.

What do you think

How about?

Alcaraz defeated a weak era.
& Alcaraz defeated a dinosaur who has been vulturing a weak era for a while.

It was a magnificent feat. Change of guard.

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

OP do you rate Alcaraz's level higher now ? IIRC you were not fully buying the hype around him.

Voted option 3.

 

[ghostofMecir]

You forgot the most massive example - Federer VS Sampras at Wimbledon, the only real example of old school vs modern player on an old school court(and Fed had to work for it):

Year	Event	Surface	RND	Winner	Result
2001	Wimbledon England	Outdoor Grass	R16	Roger Federer	767 57 64 672 75

Roger Federer VS Pete Sampras | Head 2 Head | H2H | ATP Tour | Tennis

Head to head records for players in men's professional tennis. View rivalry results and stats for matches on the ATP Tour.

www.atptour.com

The only value the term 'weak era' has is on message boards and on a bar stool. Outside of this, it is not only meaningless, but does not even exist.

Sampras wasn’t 30 years old yet. Read the post again. Then again, he was just about 30 years old and it further underlines the point.

 

[weakera]

OP do you rate Alcaraz's level higher now ? IIRC you were not fully buying the hype around him.

Voted option 3.

I rate his level higher yeah, he displayed very impressive mental toughness and clutchness I didn't think he had. But I'm also not delusional enough to think that Djokovic has been near his peak level. I'm just pointing out that Djokovic fans who have been insisting that Djokovic IS near his peak level are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Imo...these guys Medvedev, Thiem, Zverev, Sinner, Tsitsipas are much harder to beat than anything Fed faced in 2003-2006 period (other than teenage Rafa) ...I believe this Djokovic or 2021 Djokovic...if replaced with Fed would steamroll all 4 slams in 2003, 2004.

Roddick at Wimbledon in 2003, 2004, 2005 is a tougher match than all the names you mentioned as well as at the USO.. Medvedev had a nice showing in 2021, but the rest? Also, Medvedev got humiliated as if he were a futures level player in his match with Federer,

Roddick 3x at Wimbledon, once at USO
Hewitt twice at USO, twice at Wimbledon, once at AO
Safin at AO
Agassi twice at the USO
Rafito at Wimbledon
Nalbandian once at AO, once at USO

That‘s better than what Djoko has gone through

 

[WYK]

Sampras wasn’t 30 years old yet. Read the post again. Then again, he was just about 30 years old and it further underlines the point.

Exactly. Nearly 10 years to the day between them in ages, and we see a modern GOAT defeat the S&V GOAT literally on his home turf, using his own tactics.
They were even using the same racquets.
Sampras would retire the next year.
Just as with Alcaraz, this was the pivotal changing of the guard moment with Federer.

 

[RS]

Nadal fans turning on Djokovic is a funny sight. And borrowing Fed fan points from a decade ago till now.

 

[ibbi]

Didn't you know he's better than he's ever been?? What kind of a question is this?

 

[pj80]

Roddick at Wimbledon in 2003, 2004, 2005 is a tougher match than all the names you mentioned as well as at the USO.. Medvedev had a nice showing in 2021, but the rest? Also, Medvedev got humiliated as if he were a futures level player in his match with Federer,

Roddick 3x at Wimbledon, once at USO
Hewitt twice at USO, twice at Wimbledon, once at AO
Safin at AO
Agassi twice at the USO
Rafito at Wimbledon
Nalbandian once at AO, once at USO

That‘s better than what Djoko has gone through

Imo they are not harder to beat...but we can debate all these hypotheticals all day everyday. What matters to me in the end is the slam count, weeks and YE at 1.

 

[tennis_pro]

This era is super weak. There are 2 ATGs and they're winning everything. One is 36 and on the way out, the other is 20 and barely starting to reach his prime/peak. That is all.