How many slams does Serena need to be the best ever?

[AngieB]

Wooooooh! Flames are shooting out of the tailpipe of that pink Cadillac that you and AngieB are driving down the Freeway of Maiors! This should be fun

(Backing away slowly now to watch from the window of a roadside diner...with a cup of coffee and a delicious slice of pie ala mode)

Just for the record, I like both American champions, Serena and Maria.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[staceyliving]

Wooooooh! Flames are shooting out of the tailpipe of that pink Cadillac that you and AngieB are driving down the Freeway of Maiors! This should be fun

(Backing away slowly now to watch from the window of a roadside diner...with a cup of coffee and a delicious slice of pie ala mode)

Well for those who say there is more than # of majors to consider, I agree.

-Serena's longevity is the best ever. Better than even Martina and Chris by a good margin at this point.

-Serena's peak level of play is the highest.

-Serena's competition is a lot tougher, and she plays in a far deeper era in general.

-Serena's record of major wins is far more balanced (so many titles at 3 of the 4 slams which is not true of Chris and certainly not Martina).

-Serena excels in doubles unlike Chris, and at the Olympics unlike Chris and Martina who both had opportunity to play the Olymipcs in 84 and 88.

-Serena dominates all her biggest rivals unlike Martina who has equal records vs Evert and Graf (losing to Graf really considering most matches were in Martina's prime and not Steffi's, the heavy emphasis on slow court matches, and being 2-4 in slam finals), and Chris who has losing to all of Martina, Austin, and Graf.

In addition to already being tied and pretty certain to soon be ahead in slam titles.

As for the edges of Martina and Chris that are somewhat legitimate what are they. Tournament titles is ridiculous to compare as the tournament win counts of all the old timers are unrealistic. The tour was set up differently then with a bunch of tiny tournament where you had 3 matches to take the title. So that is out.

Time at #1? We play in a time of a highly controversial ranking system where the real best is only #1 60% of the time. In Serena's case she was always the real best while ranked #1 and at minimum an additional 2 weeks cummulative worth of time. Had she been ranked #1 officialy all the time she in reality was the #1 she would already be ahead of Martina and Chris here. As it is, despite considerable time when a less deserving player was at #1, she has a good chance of passing Chris by this time next year.

So that leaves what as legitimate edges for Chris and Martina. OK I give them these:

-Greater consistency.

-A career long rivalry with a singular greater opponent than Serena had.

-Martina's Wimbledon record is more impressive than Serena's at any particular slam right now.

-Evert's all around clay record is more impressive than Serena's at any particular slam now.

That is about it. Serena > Chris and Martina right now, and the gap will only grow. That is how most people already feel. If you polled 20 experts who ranked highest between Serena, Chris, and Martina today I would be willing to bet atleast 15 of those pick Serena, and quite likely 0 would pick Chris who was already considered behind Martina by the vast majority.

 

[CEvertFan]

Well for those who say there is more than # of majors to consider, I agree.

-Serena's longevity is the best ever. Better than even Martina and Chris by a good margin at this point.

-Serena's peak level of play is the highest.

-Serena's competition is a lot tougher, and she plays in a far deeper era in general.

-Serena's record of major wins is far more balanced (so many titles at 3 of the 4 slams which is not true of Chris and certainly not Martina).

-Serena excels in doubles unlike Chris, and at the Olympics unlike Chris and Martina who both had opportunity to play the Olymipcs in 84 and 88.

-Serena dominates all her biggest rivals unlike Martina who has equal records vs Evert and Graf (losing to Graf really considering most matches were in Martina's prime and not Steffi's, the heavy emphasis on slow court matches, and being 2-4 in slam finals), and Chris who has losing to all of Martina, Austin, and Graf.

In addition to already being tied and pretty certain to soon be ahead in slam titles.

As for the edges of Martina and Chris that are somewhat legitimate what are they. Tournament titles is ridiculous to compare as the tournament win counts of all the old timers are unrealistic. The tour was set up differently then with a bunch of tiny tournament where you had 3 matches to take the title. So that is out.

Time at #1? We play in a time of a highly controversial ranking system where the real best is only #1 60% of the time. In Serena's case she was always the real best while ranked #1 and at minimum an additional 2 weeks cummulative worth of time. Had she been ranked #1 officialy all the time she in reality was the #1 she would already be ahead of Martina and Chris here. As it is, despite considerable time when a less deserving player was at #1, she has a good chance of passing Chris by this time next year.

So that leaves what as legitimate edges for Chris and Martina. OK I give them these:

-Greater consistency.

-A career long rivalry with a singular greater opponent than Serena had.

-Martina's Wimbledon record is more impressive than Serena's at any particular slam right now.

-Evert's all around clay record is more impressive than Serena's at any particular slam now.

That is about it. Serena > Chris and Martina right now, and the gap will only grow. That is how most people already feel. If you polled 20 experts who ranked highest between Serena, Chris, and Martina today I would be willing to bet atleast 15 of those pick Serena, and quite likely 0 would pick Chris who was already considered behind Martina by the vast majority.

Tennis was only a demonstration sport in 84 which doesn't officially count or everyone would have added that to the Graf resume since she won it in 84. Edberg won it for the men in 84.


Since it had also just come back to the Olympics in 88 it wasn't yet seen as that important - more like a mid level tournament, below a masters or WTA premier event.

 

[staceyliving]

Fair point on 84, but in 88 most of the top players played the Games. Martina and Chris chose not to, yet the final was a Graf-Gaby one and the other medalists were Shriver and Garrison who were both top 6 or 7 at the time. Martina and Chris were old then, but while Martina and Chris were shown the back of the hand of Graf regularly at that point, we see Serena at the same age or older (than Martina) dominating tennis, the Olympics, the slams, and all else there is.

 

[CEvertFan]

Fair point on 84, but in 88 most of the top players played the Games. Martina and Chris chose not to, yet the final was a Graf-Gaby one and the other medalists were Shriver and Garrison who were both top 6 or 7 at the time. Martina and Chris were old then, but while Martina and Chris were shown the back of the hand of Graf regularly at that point, we see Serena at the same age or older (than Martina) dominating tennis, the Olympics, the slams, and all else there is.

Evert did in fact play but lost early - Navratilova did not play.

 

[AngieB]

Will be funny watching some of the delusional posters in this thread try to say Navratilova and Evert > Serena even when she reaches 20 majors and beyond by talking about Coca Cola classic titles in 8 player draws or how many extra slam quarterfinals you lost. :lol:

I am glad you identify a glaring pothole on Minor Highway en route to The 1970's Tab Tennis Opens. No amount of saccharin could make the taste of these Minor evenst sweeter historically.

I get it. The WTA needed to expand its exposure in the US so they initially threw together metal bleachers around a tennis court and got a cigarette company to launch these smaller events. Billie Jean and many of that generation were playing TONS of tennis ALL the time to spur interest in the tour. A lot of quantity, some would question quality.

Weighing these events historically is difficult at best because of the maiden voyage down Minor Canal.

How does one quantitate The Tab Tennis Open's of the 1970's in comparison with the Pattaya Pudding Cups of today?

#PTL

AngieB

 

[AngieB]

Big deal. Serena doesn't major in minors. Win or lose doesn't matter.

You are correct. Serena doesn't place as much importance on the YE tournament and the #1 ranking as she does driving down Major Highway in her pink Bentley.

She wins so much so often these days, it all just melds together. She's the favorite in every match she plays. That's what a GOAT does in her mid-30's.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[staceyliving]

Evert did in fact play but lost early - Navratilova did not play.

Thanks for that. Did she play doubles as well? In that case even more relevant to mention the Olympics as an additional factor, as Serena at almost the same age won both singles and doubles gold at the Olympics in London, and I wouldn't be surprised if she repeats the feat in Rio.

 

[staceyliving]

You are correct. Serena doesn't place as much importance on the YE tournament and the #1 ranking as she does driving down Major Highway in her pink Bentley.

She wins so much so often these days, it all just melds together. She's the favorite in every match she plays. That's what a GOAT does in her mid-30's.

#PTL

AngieB

I actually do think the YEC is a major event, obviously not at the level of a slam but still significant. Serena if she wins tomorrow will be winning her 5th YEC, which surpasses Evert who won 4. Navratilova is at 7, so still ahead, but Serena has time on her side to catch up obviously.

 

[Xavier G]

I'm not sure whether Serena Williams' level of play is the best ever, but having seen both Chris and Serena play, I'm pretty confident in saying Serena's peak level of play is higher than Chris' was. I think Martina Navratilova's peak was higher than Chris' and Steffi's was too. Chris was better with the consistantly high level of play year-in, year-out part of things than Serena. Serena's peak is higher. As they are both on 18 GS singles titles as of now, take your pick, and Serena isn't finished...I think Serena would generally get the better of Chris on most surfaces, prime for prime, again just opinion. Serena's a better athlete, more powerful and more dynamic than Chris was. Martina, Steffi and Serena were all more powerful than Chris. I could see Martina and Steffi giving Serena a tougher time in hypothetical match-ups than Chris would. I like the fact that Martina and Serena won so often in GS events in both singles and doubles.
And yes, many tournaments were easier to win in the 1970's and 80's than they are today.

Chris Evert was great though, let's not forget that. She was beating the all-time Grand Slam leader Margaret Court (because there was tennis prior to 1968, and a rich history of it too) in Margaret's Grand Slam wimning year of 1970, when Chris was just 15...

 

[PDJ]

I'm not sure whether Serena Williams' level of play is the best ever, but having seen both Chris and Serena play, I'm pretty confident in saying Serena's peak level of play is higher than Chris' was. I think Martina Navratilova's peak was higher than Chris' and Steffi's was too. Chris was better with the consistantly high level of play year-in, year-out part of things than Serena. Serena's peak is higher. As they are both on 18 GS singles titles as of now, take your pick, and Serena isn't finished...I think Serena would generally get the better of Chris on most surfaces, prime for prime, again just opinion. Serena's a better athlete, more powerful and more dynamic than Chris was. Martina, Steffi and Serena were all more powerful than Chris. I could see Martina and Steffi giving Serena a tougher time in hypothetical match-ups than Chris would. I like the fact that Martina and Serena won so often in GS events in both singles and doubles.
And yes, many tournaments were easier to win in the 1970's and 80's than they are today.

Chris Evert was great though, let's not forget that. She was beating the all-time Grand Slam leader Margaret Court (because there was tennis prior to 1968, and a rich history of it too) in Margaret's Grand Slam wimning year of 1970, when Chris was just 15...

I don't agree, on the whole, however, I enjoyed reading your post. Thoroughly.

 

[staceyliving]

I'm not sure whether Serena Williams' level of play is the best ever, but having seen both Chris and Serena play, I'm pretty confident in saying Serena's peak level of play is higher than Chris' was. I think Martina Navratilova's peak was higher than Chris' and Steffi's was too. Chris was better with the consistantly high level of play year-in, year-out part of things than Serena. Serena's peak is higher. As they are both on 18 GS singles titles as of now, take your pick, and Serena isn't finished...I think Serena would generally get the better of Chris on most surfaces, prime for prime, again just opinion. Serena's a better athlete, more powerful and more dynamic than Chris was. Martina, Steffi and Serena were all more powerful than Chris. I could see Martina and Steffi giving Serena a tougher time in hypothetical match-ups than Chris would. I like the fact that Martina and Serena won so often in GS events in both singles and doubles.
And yes, many tournaments were easier to win in the 1970's and 80's than they are today.

Chris Evert was great though, let's not forget that. She was beating the all-time Grand Slam leader Margaret Court (because there was tennis prior to 1968, and a rich history of it too) in Margaret's Grand Slam wimning year of 1970, when Chris was just 15...

You probably assume Martina and Steffi had a higher peak level of play since their stats in their dominant peak years- 83 and 84 for Martina, 88 and 89 as well as 95 and 96 for Steffi, are greater and more dominant than Serena's. However that is a flawed outlook. To give a true extreme example that would put it into perspective even Seles's at her peak in 91-92 has slightly better 2 year stats than Serena at any of her various peaks, 2002-2003, mid 2012-2013, etc...and would you say even Seles in playing level is better peak to peak than Serena. :lol:

The competition level Serena faced in 2002-2003 especialy is light years beyond what Martina faced in 83-84 which was truly a terrible field, and far beyond Graf in 88-89, 95-96, or Seles in 91-92 too. Graf in 88-89 faced a near prime Martina, but nobody else near her stature. Gaby was an underachiever and never in Steffi's league despite the desperate hyping of the joke of a non rivalry. Seles in 91-92 barely even played Graf who was in a significant slump and regularly losing before finals, which left her who exactly? Mary Joe Fernandez, Anke Huber, and 15 year old Capriati? Graf in 95-96 faced a slightly past her prime Seles, Sanchez Vicario, and 15 year old Hingis, still not amazing. Now Serena in 2002-2003 faced peak Venus, peak Henin, near prime Davenport, peak Mauresmo, peak Clijsters, near prime Sharapova, Hingis briefly, peak Capriati. I am not sure anyone in womens tennis history could dominate that field to the extent Serena did except Serena. In fact I am pretty sure of it. Navratilova or Graf even at their peak wouldn't beat someone as powerful and formidable as peak Venus in 5 slam finals, 4 of those Wimbledon and U.S Opens, no way. As for the later peak periods of dominance for Serena, dominating at all at this age is so remarkable (and something even golden oldie Martina who won a mere 1 slam after turning 31 wasn't even close to doing) that it defies exact degrees of dominance or competition.

I could see peak Martina giving Serena a tough time. Graf less so. Graf had enough trouble with a very immature Serena in their 99 encounters, in fact looking badly overpowered in them and only kept close by Serena's errors, that I don't see her game being effective vs a peak Serena at all. Peak Serena totally neutralizes the Graf game. In their 99 encounters she pounded the Graf backhand mercilessly, served there regularly, and only gave her a forehand when the court was totally opened to point Graf would only be hitting it on a long run or full stretch. The same tactics Seles employed with success, and that Martina employed in a serve and volley fashion instead. Prime Serena would do this even more effectively, and with far more powerful groundstrokes than Martina, far better movement and athleticsm than even peak Seles, and even better serving than either Martina or Seles (and even Steffi for that matter).

 

[Xavier G]

staceyliving, I'm just giving my honest opinion about these players, all of whom I've seen too. I'm not going to make a blanket statement like 'Serena's peak level of play is the highest' like you said. That's your opinion and really, that's all it is, opinion. It may be true, it may not be. Even former great players who all know more than you about tennis are divided about these matters. Just because you state things in vehement fashion doesn't necessarily make them facts, staceyliving...Serena's peak level of play is greater than Chris' was, I'm pretty sure. I also think Martina and Steffi in their primes would have brought more than enough to Serena to give her problems....I agree that Serena's depth of opposition in her career overall is higher than some of the past great players had to contend with in their era's. The sport has changed in many ways. That's my opinion too.

You brought Monica Seles into the discussion. I don't know why. Seeing as she was taken out of the sport for an extended period by a lunatic Graf fan while she was winning three Slam titles a year, I shall leave that area of discussion alone....

 

[staceyliving]

I brought up Seles not due to thinking she even enters the discussion of highest ever female peak level play (of course she doesnt, which is why she is the perfect example for what I am about to explain and the only reason I reference her), but only due to the example that even she has better stats (W-L, slam results) at her peak in 91-92 than Serena in 2002-2003. Thus IF you base the supposed superiority of peak playing Navratilova and Graf to peak playing Serena on stats than even peak Seles > peak Serena. As that very suggestion (peak Seles > peak Serena) is obviously laughable (I am sure you would atleast concede that). Thus why I used that purposely extreme example just to illustrate the flaw of only looking at stats, and how one cant conclude peak Martina and peak Graf > peak Serena, just due to more dominant stats at their 2 year peaks than Serena at hers. Especialy when it is plainly obvious the competition Serena faced, especialy at her first peak in 2002-2003, is eons beyond Martina and Steffi. Do you really think the Serena of 2002 would lose even a single tennis match in say 1983, which was flat out a scary horrible year for womens tennis, and when Evert even pretty much stunk. Maybe if she had a huge injury and retired mid match but that would be it, and she certainly wouldn't lose to Horvath. Do you really think Serena of 2002 wouldn't do the Golden Slam in 1988 just as Steffi did vs mostly marginal competition, Zvereva in a slam final for instance, LOL!

I also disagree former greats are divided on the matter. Pretty much all of them, even ones who don't consider Serena the GOAT, have peak to peak Serena >>> everyone else, and would win the majority of matches peak to peak over Martina and Steffi. In Steffi's case their 99 matches with an immature Serena who is less than half the player of years to come, give tangible proof that speculation isn't even needed. Atleast with Martina you can speculate.

 

[AngieB]

The posted articles are so voluminous now that it makes my eyes hurt to read it all.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[Xavier G]

staceylivng, nothing to do with just stats. I saw Martina and Steffi play. Monica Seles does not have to come into the conversation. Do not be so cocksure of yourself. You have your opinions and other people have theirs. Arrogance is never a good look...

 

[staceyliving]

staceylivng, nothing to do with just stats. I saw Martina and Steffi play. Monica Seles does not have to come into the conversation. Do not be so cocksure of yourself. You have your opinions and other people have theirs. Arrogance is never a good look...

Well watch this match then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_iAya_PHYo

This was Steffi coming back into her prime after exiting it in 1997-1998 due to injury, and probably playing so well she would have won 4-5 slams total in 1999-2001 had she not quit mid 1999. Serena nowhere near her prime. Steffi back in her prime totally overpowered and bullied around, and losing (barely but only due to the gift of Serena's errors throughout the match) to a way out of prime Serena.

Atleast Martina avoided playing Serena, so no tangible evidence but with Steffi there is and it isn't pretty for her.

Although I think Steffi is the GOAT due to her stats (for now, Serena will probably eclipse her) she doesn't do well prime to prime vs any of the greats for that matter, other than probably Chris. Martina is 4-1 vs her at the U.S Open, Seles was on top of her before the stabbing, and she had tons of trouble with the big babes at the end of her career. Like Chris her biggest strength is consistency, versatility, and always maintaining a very high level health permitting, just to a bit more spectacular level than Chris but still not the highest.

 

[Xavier G]

Well watch this match then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_iAya_PHYo

This was Steffi coming back into her prime after exiting it in 1997-1998 due to injury, and probably playing so well she would have won 4-5 slams total in 1999-2001 had she not quit mid 1999. Serena nowhere near her prime. Steffi back in her prime totally overpowered and bullied around, and losing (barely but only due to the gift of Serena's errors throughout the match) to a way out of prime Serena.

Atleast Martina avoided playing Serena, so no tangible evidence but with Steffi there is and it isn't pretty for her.

staceyliving, 'Martina avoided playing Serena' you say...Martina was 42 years of age in 1999. God bless us!

I'm not going with to argue with you to defend Steffi Graf, lol!

 

[staceyliving]

Well you know what I mean. Martina and Serena were never realistically going to play being something like 25 years apart in age. So we are atleast free to completely speculate who would be better. Serena we did see playing Graf, and at a time that Graf should have been highly favored, and Graf didn't exactly impress in those encounters.

 

[Xavier G]

Well you know what I mean. Martina and Serena were never realistically going to play being something like 25 years apart in age. So we are atleast free to completely speculate who would be better. Serena we did see playing Graf, and at a time that Graf should have been highly favored, and Graf didn't exactly impress in those encounters.

staceyliving, you know your tennis, it's all fun, keep it fun. Good debate there.

 

[Djokovic2011]

staceyliving, you know your tennis, it's all fun, keep it fun. Good debate there.

Just a pity he's such an aggressive dbag that has to use a million different usernames because he keeps getting banned from here. I wonder how long 'staceyliving' :lol: will last for.

 

[AngieB]

Did I read that correctly?

Someone said that Steffi Graf would have won 4-5 grand slam singles events from 1999-2001 had she not retired?

Like my granddaughter says, "Seriously?"

Steffi would have been fortunate to win 1 or 2 more after Wimbledon 1999. Was she competitive? Yes. However, Serena, Venus, Lindsay and Martina H. were already challenging well and Jennifer was emerging in 2001. The talent pool in the top ten was heavy during that period.

The other factor which wasn't taken into consideration was Steffi's health. I'm not confident that knee would have held up two more years.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[AngieB]

Just a pity he's such an aggressive dbag that has to use a million different usernames because he keeps getting banned from here. I wonder how long 'staceyliving' :lol: will last for.

DJOKOVIC2011,

I was banned for three days once. It was because I made insulting remarks about a member in this forum. I chuckled to myself a little bit when it happened. An old woman managed to get banned on the internet talking about tennis. Another bucket list item checked.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[PDJ]

DJOKOVIC2011,

I was banned for three days once. It was because I made insulting remarks about a member in this forum. I chuckled to myself a little bit when it happened. An old woman managed to get banned on the internet talking about tennis. Another bucket list item checked.

#PTL

AngieB

Is that an apology? If so, I'll happily accept it and move on- yes, your comments still weigh on my mind. But then if I'd directed similarly at you, or anyone, I think you'd have the right to feel angry/sickened.

 

[AngieB]

DJOKOVIC2011,

I was banned for three days once. It was because I made insulting remarks about a member in this forum. I chuckled to myself a little bit when it happened. An old woman managed to get banned on the internet talking about tennis. Another bucket list item checked.

#PTL

AngieB

Is that an apology? If so, I'll happily accept it and move on- yes, your comments still weigh on my mind. But then if I'd directed similarly at you, or anyone, I think you'd have the right to feel angry/sickened.

PDJ,

I rarely directly respond to you, but in this instance I believe I just got an admission of guilt. You net-copped a grandma in an internet tennis forum and now you want an apology. #PTL #WWJD #GFYBOK

Have a nice day. #KMABOK

#PTL

AngieB

 

[PDJ]

PDJ,

I rarely directly respond to you, but in this instance I believe I just got an admission of guilt. You net-copped a grandma in an internet tennis forum and now you want an apology. #PTL #WWJD #GFYBOK

Have a nice day. #KMABOK

#PTL

AngieB

Fair enough Grandma. I foolishly thought you practiced what you preached.
So you stand by your comments.
That says more about you than me.
At least you got to tick your bucket list, which must be gratifying......
You have a 'nice' day to.
#MYRIH
And I informed you at the time I'd reported you. Maybe you had trouble narrowing down the reporter......

 

[Xavier G]

Just a pity he's such an aggressive dbag that has to use a million different usernames because he keeps getting banned from here. I wonder how long 'staceyliving' :lol: will last for.

Hello. I had a 'lively' debate with presumably the same person a few months ago. I forgive him/her.

He or she is sometimes a bit confrontational in their views, but knows their tennis, I think. I like seeing all different points of view. I try not to take this tennis chat too seriously. Have a good day.

 

[AngieB]

 

[staceyliving]

Congrats to the GOAT by consensus on another great achievement. Onwards and upwards as always with the female tennis GOAT, most likely to slam #19 in Australia as Djokovic2011, Mr. Lob and TMF continue to stew and fume, and come back trolling harder with the hate and vitriol.

 

[AngieB]

Congrats to the GOAT by consensus on another great achievement. Onwards and upwards as always with the female tennis GOAT, most likely to slam #19 in Australia as Djokovic2011, Mr. Lob and TMF continue to stew and fume, and come back trolling harder with the hate and vitriol.

All I hear right now are crickets. I think it is because of the way Serena defended her title. Winning 6-3, 6-0 after losing 6-2, 6-0. Everyone knew Serena's earlier round loss was just a bad day for Serena. A few thought Simona's victory might catapult her, but on any average day for Serena, she will always be a heavy favorite over Simona.

Looking ahead, the 2015 Australian Open looks very favorable for Serena. It was once her "go to" grand slam event. I would bet that Serena will focus much more on Australia and Wimbledon. Expect a very short clay court season for her in 2015.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[AngieB]

 

[staceyliving]

This forum cant stand the reality that in the real world Serena is widely considered the GOAT. Saying she is considered below Evert and Navratilova is delusion at its finest. Even Evert says Serena >>>> Evert. Who has more credence, the actual great CHRIS EVERT, or someone who calls themselves CEvertfan? :lol: I will take the real Chris Evert thank you. Only Graf is even in the conversation with Serena anymore in the real world. As with most things though TennisFedWarehouse will create their own fantasy bubble to protect their own fragile emotions and desires though.

 

[AngieB]

This forum cant stand the reality that in the real world Serena is widely considered the GOAT. Saying she is considered below Evert and Navratilova is delusion at its finest. Even Evert says Serena >>>> Evert. Who has more credence, the actual great CHRIS EVERT, or someone who calls themselves CEvertfan? :lol: I will take the real Chris Evert thank you. Only Graf is even in the conversation with Serena anymore in the real world. As with most things though TennisFedWarehouse will create their own fantasy bubble to protect their own fragile emotions and desires though.

There are some participants in this forum, largely considered credible by regulars, who show an unnatural disdain for Serena. They seem to be very knowledgeable about tennis and its history, until it comes to discussing Serena's place in tennis history and they become instantly polarized.

It will likely take at least two more generations before the sport of tennis is more accepting of non-traditional all-time greats in tennis. There are some things from tennis' past that need to die and my hope is that the hatred towards non-traditional tennis players will die a miserable, sudden death.

Serena has been good for the sport of tennis and has given back much more than she could have ever gotten from the sport.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Congrats to the GOAT by consensus on another great achievement. Onwards and upwards as always with the female tennis GOAT, most likely to slam #19 in Australia as Djokovic2011, Mr. Lob and TMF continue to stew and fume, and come back trolling harder with the hate and vitriol.

As Angie pointed out, are you hear are crickets, as the those who are filled with blood hatred of Serena--in typical fashion--spend days, weeks and a certain member's case, years trying to erase Serena from her rightfully earned legend status. However, with each win, they will suddenly grow silent...but only for a short time, as the burning campaign must continue.

Amusingly enough, a couple of members love to harp about non-majors events being important, but with Serena's year end victory, they will (conveniently) ignore that, or pretend it really means nothing and/or compared to similar victories by others.

Thus, they are trapped in a certain way...only they do not know it...

All so predictable.

 

[AngieB]

Amusingly enough, a couple of members love to harp about non-majors events being important, but with Serena's year end victory, they will (conveniently) ignore that, or pretend it really means nothing and/or compared to similar victories by others.

Thus, they are trapped in a certain way...only they do not know it...

All so predictable.

Minor Highway is a road well-traveled in this forum and especially when discussing Serena's career. As Serena approached #18, NO ONE even cared how many times she traveled down Minor Highway in her pink Bentley. Once Serena became a serious GOAT contender, there was a convoy of brown Ford Pinto's and Chevrolet Vega's traveling down Minor Highway, en route to Major Highway to spray paint graffiti onto major buildings built by Serena Williams.

I have on more than one occasion attempted to explain to them that it is futile traveling down Minor Highway while Serena's career continues to explode. The consensus in this and most all tennis forum's is that Serena will surpass Chris and Martina, thus traveling down Minor Highway is useless while Serena continues to dominate women's tennis.

Chris and Martina had great careers. They both got the most out of their brand of tennis, whose support of tournaments like the S&H Green Stamps Tennis Classic supplemented their major achievements. However, most understand that the path towards greatness is not through the S&H Green Stamps Tennis Classic on Minor Highway.

Perhaps the history revisionists should consider building some form of temple or headquarters on Minor Highway since they travel there so often, embracing the mediocrity of tennis. I would even go out of my way to plant a pretty flower garden on the side of the building, in hopes that a ray of sunshine would come down and bring them to their senses. I would even go as far as providing a Lipton Iced Tea stand for the convoy of hope.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

What's with the car metaphors?

 

[AngieB]

Serena celebrates her YE Singapore victory with an open-legged handstand.

 

[AngieB]

What's with the car metaphors?

You can't get to Major Highway in a Ford Pinto.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[TMF]

It's only 1 title

A great win for Serena, no doubt. But please, it's only 1 title which gives her total of 64. It's not like Serena have reaches a record 22 slams, added 150 weeks at #1 or another 50 single titles. All she did was took another small step in approaching Martina/Chris, and will need many small steps to get there.


You get caught up in the excitement of the moment and forgot about the past players have been there, done that.

 

[AngieB]

A great win for Serena, no doubt. But please, it's only 1 title which gives her total of 64. It's not like Serena have reaches a record 22 slams, added 150 weeks at #1 or another 50 single titles. All she did was took another small step in approaching Martina/Chris, and will need many small steps to get there.


You get caught up in the excitement of the moment and forgot about the past players have been there, done that.

Credit TennisFan436

 

[pmerk34]

A great win for Serena, no doubt. But please, it's only 1 title which gives her total of 64. It's not like Serena have reaches a record 22 slams, added 150 weeks at #1 or another 50 single titles. All she did was took another small step in approaching Martina/Chris, and will need many small steps to get there.


You get caught up in the excitement of the moment and forgot about the past players have been there, done that.

There is no need, she is the best player who ever lived.

 

[TMF]

Credit TennisFan436

Not a great win as I've suggested ?

Fine, have it your way.

 

[TMF]

There is no need, she is the best player who ever lived.

Is that a fact or opinion ?

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Credit TennisFan436

As you see, I predicted the kind of post your picture refers to:

Amusingly enough, a couple of members love to harp about non-majors events being important, but with Serena's year end victory, they will (conveniently) ignore that, or pretend it really means nothing and/or compared to similar victories by others.

All too predictable.

That member's unchained anger leads him to try anything to damn Serena.

 

[AngieB]

I'm curious if anyone in this forum seriously thinks Chris or Martina were able to do Serena's open-legged, handstand after winning their 18th Grand slam singles titles. I am amazed at her upper-body strength. Girls are so much stronger these days.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[AngieB]

Amusingly enough, a couple of members love to harp about non-majors events being important, but with Serena's year end victory, they will (conveniently) ignore that, or pretend it really means nothing and/or compared to similar victories by others.

Thus, they are trapped in a certain way...only they do not know it...

All so predictable.

I believe Serena's 5th YE Championship victory edged her past Chris' 4. Serena joins Martina and Steffi as being the only three who have won 5. Albeit, this is an Open-Era exclusive category and should be historically weighted accordingly. There are no HOA lanes on Minor Highway en route to Major Lane. Someone might want to let CEvertFan know.

#PTL

AngieB

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

I'm curious if anyone in this forum seriously thinks Chris or Martina were able to do Serena's open-legged, handstand after winning their 18th Grand slam singles titles. I am amazed at her upper-body strength. Girls are so much stronger these days.

#PTL

AngieB

Expect the following trip up from the bloodlust gang: in their eternally weak attempt to attack Serena, they will post the equally eternally unsubstantiated PED charge, which (in their clueless nature) sets up an unintentional insult to their "side" in this thread--Evert and Martina. Since they believe no female tennis player should be able to do the handstand without drugs, that also means all women (Evert and Martina included) are rendered weak little flowers incapable of something anyone from pre-schoolers to athletes to seniors can and do with no problem.

 

[Vanhool]

Expect the following trip up from the bloodlust gang: in their eternally weak attempt to attack Serena, they will post the equally eternally unsubstantiated PED charge, which (in their clueless nature) sets up an unintentional insult to their "side" in this thread--Evert and Martina. Since they believe no female tennis player should be able to do the handstand without drugs, that also means all women (Evert and Martina included) are rendered weak little flowers incapable of something anyone from pre-schoolers to athletes to seniors can and do with no problem.

Why don't you let them say it first and then respond? It's more fun that way. Besides, now you have basically said it's no biggie that Serena can do it because any geriatric can, which I don't think is true.

Anyway, Serena is fortunate to be not only very strong, but also very flexible. Fun pic!

 

[PDJ]

Why don't you let them say it first and then respond? It's more fun that way. Besides, now you have basically said it's no biggie that Serena can do it because any geriatric can, which I don't think is true.

Anyway, Serena is fortunate to be not only very strong, but also very flexible. Fun pic!

It might be a biggie for SW. Indeed, it may have been on her bucket list.
Although it does rather remind me of a line by Maggie Smith in 'Evil under the Sun' ......... "and wider, dear".

 

[Vanhool]

It might be a biggie for SW. Indeed, it may have been on her bucket list.
Although it does rather remind me of a line by Maggie Smith in 'Evil under the Sun' ......... "and wider, dear".

I'm not familiar with this reference, but I feel a little frightened and disturbed