In my opinion Martina Navratilova is the GOAT

[prairiegirl]

She won 18 Slam singles titles, and 31 Slam doubles titles including the Grand Slam of doubles in 1984. So, all together, 49 Slam titles, much higher than Roger, Serena, or Rafa. Her career records is 84%. From my perspective, she was much more of an all-court player than Serena and far more accomplished. She is my GOAT.

 

[Mainad]

She's certainly the Wimbledon GOAT with more titles there (9 singles, 7 doubles, 4 mixed doubles) than any other player in history.

 

[jaggy]

I am not going to argue

 

[Chadillac]

Court > Martina > Chrissy > Serena. Its hard to believe how much more dominant martina/evert would be if they didnt play against each other (37-22 martina).

25% of everts total losses were to martina and she still held a 89.97% winning percentage overall...

 

[Standaa]

Mury GOAT

 

[prairiegirl]

I fail to understand why people hold up Serena over her. This is not in any way to disrespect Serena who is a superb athlete and extraordinary champion with one of the best records of all time. But her accomplishments don't equal those of Martina. Not about arguing, more about acknowledging.

 

[Plamen1234]

GOAT of losing GS finals for sure.Well Evert is also there

 

[tennis_pro]

She'd probably be the female GOAT if she didn't waste the first few years of her career. A 4-6 Slam deficit is pretty big no matter what else you did.

 

[Masterofpuppet]

You sure can name anyone you want the GOAT, but i don't think anyone care about doubles at all. McEnroe won 9 slam in doubles and nobody even remembers this.

 

[Deleted member 756486]

F E D R

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Sure. I think it's Graf tbh. Both have a decent case

Not sure how Fed and Nad are relevant here though

 

[clout]

She has several claims to being the women's GOAT imo. She holds countless records, had an incredibly high peak, as well as insane longevity. Additionally, she had the "Nadal-like rival" that Serena and Steffi never had in Chrissie Evert. Imo, Graf can't be the goat simply because of the Seles stabbing and even though Graf would've been an ATG regardless whether Seles was stabbed or not, theres no way she'd win 22 slams without Monica being taken outta the game by that maniac. As for Serena, around half of her 23 slams came against insanely weak competition since like 2010. Serena also never had the consistent domination that these other GOAT candidates had.

 

[axlrose]

Martina and Chris had to deal with each other and still won 18 Slams/each.

How many Slams Steffi and Serena's biggest opponent have?

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Martina and Chris had to deal with each other and still won 18 Slams/each.

How many Slams Steffi and Serena's biggest opponent have?

Imo Evert in particular has a good claim to the title given that she pretty much never played the AO and missed 3 RG in her absolute prime for WTT because of $$$.

 

[Adi1987]

She has several claims to being the women's GOAT imo. She holds countless records, had an incredibly high peak, as well as insane longevity. Additionally, she had the "Nadal-like rival" that Serena and Steffi never had in Chrissie Evert. Imo, Graf can't be the goat simply because of the Seles stabbing and even though Graf would've been an ATG regardless whether Seles was stabbed or not, theres no way she'd win 22 slams without Monica being taken outta the game by that maniac. As for Serena, around half of her 23 slams came against insanely weak competition since like 2010. Serena also never had the consistent domination that these other GOAT candidates had.

Evert and Navratilova competition : 22 slams

Wade : 3 slams
Goolagong : 7 slams
Austin : 2 slams
Mandlikova : 4 slams
Sue barket : 1 slam
Ruzizi : 1
Jordan : 1
Chris o neil : 1 slam
Jausovec : 1 slam
Reid : 1 slam



Graf competition : 18 slam
Seles : 9 slams
Asv : 4 slams
Sabatini : 1 slam
Martinez : 1
Pierce : 2
Novotna : 1


Serena's competition : 55 slams

Hingis - 5
Majoli - 1
Davenport - 3
Venus - 7
Capriati - 3
Henin - 7
Myskina - 1
Sharapova -5
Kuznetsova - 2
Clijster - 4
Mauresmo - 2
Ivanovic - 1
Schiavone -1
Na Li - 2
Kvitova - 2
stosur - 1
azarenka - 2
bartoli - 1
pennatta - 1
kerber - 2
murguza - 2
Wozniaki -1

 

[Chadillac]

Evert and Navratilova competition : 22 slams

Wade : 3 slams
Goolagong : 7 slams
Austin : 2 slams
Mandlikova : 4 slams
Sue barket : 1 slam
Ruzizi : 1
Jordan : 1
Chris o neil : 1 slam
Jausovec : 1 slam
Reid : 1 slam



Graf competition : 18 slam
Seles : 9 slams
Asv : 4 slams
Sabatini : 1 slam
Martinez : 1
Pierce : 2
Novotna : 1


Serena's competition : 55 slams

Hingis - 5
Majoli - 1
Davenport - 3
Venus - 7
Capriati - 3
Henin - 7
Myskina - 1
Sharapova -5
Kuznetsova - 2
Clijster - 4
Mauresmo - 2
Ivanovic - 1
Schiavone -1
Na Li - 2
Kvitova - 2
stosur - 1
azarenka - 2
bartoli - 1
pennatta - 1
kerber - 2
murguza - 2
Wozniaki -1

You didnt include evert or martina vs each other? Nor did you include graf?? They played 18 times
You didnt include steffi vs the williams sisters and probably others?
You didnt include serena vs steffi?

Lets be honest, steffi/serena rivalry lasted as long as many on her list.

Thats what makes chrissy martina so great, they both had high numbers and had to play each other. Greatest womans rivalry in tennis if im correct.

Martina - Chrissy
Graf - Seles
Serena - Who??

 

[Adi1987]

You didnt include evert or martina vs each other? Nor did you include graf?? They played 18 times
You didnt include steffi vs the williams sisters and probably others?
You didnt include serena vs steffi?

Lets be honest, steffi/serena rivalry lasted as long as many on her list.

Thats what makes chrissy martina so great, they both had high numbers and had to play each other. Greatest womans rivalry in tennis if im correct.

Martina - Chrissy
Graf - Seles
Serena - Who??

Thank you for acknowledging that navratilova and evert only had each other to play. Those two only had to worry about. Like connors said you cancel womens tournament and have them play a single match between evert and navratilova, because thats how poor the level of competition was.

Serena played for 3 decades and won against a variety of opponents . the mere effort of matching serenas level broke down the bodies of her opponents and when one opponent fell by the wayside and another fresher opponent took her place serena broke her down too.

I wont embarass graf by further exposing her limited competition. No wonder si listed her as the most overrated female tennis player of all time.

 

[tennisaddict]

Thank you for acknowledging that navratilova and evert only had each other to play. Those two only had to worry about. Like connors said you cancel womens tournament and have them play a single match between evert and navratilova, because thats how poor the level of competition was.

Serena played for 3 decades and won against a variety of opponents . the mere effort of matching serenas level broke down the bodies of her opponents and when one opponent fell by the wayside and another fresher opponent took her place serena broke her down too.

I wont embarass graf by further exposing her limited competition. No wonder si listed her as the most overrated female tennis player of all time.

When it comes to number of big titles, it is the #1 and #2 that really matter. The others are fillers and just a means to get to the finals. Serena, as great that she is, did not have a No 2 the caliber of Chris Evert. For that reason alone, Martina and Chris will always be in the GOAT conversation.

And Graf's achievements are mind boggling. Tennis is not just the 4 majors. And there is a huge gap between what Graf achieved vs Serena , outside of majors.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Murry GOAT

 

[ZiggyStardust]

Court > Martina > Chrissy > Serena. Its hard to believe how much more dominant martina/evert would be if they didnt play against each other (37-22 martina).

25% of everts total losses were to martina and she still held a 89.97% winning percentage overall...

How on Earth is that even possible LOL. I swear Evert has the most ridiculous records ever. Especially impressive as she faced competition that was as tough as any player ever.

 

[beltsman]

She won 18 Slam singles titles, and 31 Slam doubles titles including the Grand Slam of doubles in 1984. So, all together, 49 Slam titles, much higher than Roger, Serena, or Rafa. Her career records is 84%. From my perspective, she was much more of an all-court player than Serena and far more accomplished. She is my GOAT.

She played against women.

 

[Adi1987]

You didnt include evert or martina vs each other? Nor did you include graf?? They played 18 times
You didnt include steffi vs the williams sisters and probably others?
You didnt include serena vs steffi?

Lets be honest, steffi/serena rivalry lasted as long as many on her list.

Thats what makes chrissy martina so great, they both had high numbers and had to play each other. Greatest womans rivalry in tennis if im correct.

Martina - Chrissy
Graf - Seles
Serena - Who??

Serena vs seles head to head : 6-1

I

When it comes to number of big titles, it is the #1 and #2 that really matter. The others are fillers and just a means to get to the finals. Serena, as great that she is, did not have a No 2 the caliber of Chris Evert. For that reason alone, Martina and Chris will always be in the GOAT conversation.

And Graf's achievements are mind boggling. Tennis is not just the 4 majors. And there is a huge gap between what Graf achieved vs Serena , outside of majors.

Just like you dismiss the opponents ranked outside number 1 and 2 as fillers. I can similarly dismiss non grand slam titles as insignificant . see two can play that game.


Just like you said tennis is more than grand slams , tennis is also more than the no1 and no2 playing every final because the rest of the field is crap.

Graf's poor competition has been exposed in my previous post.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Thank you for acknowledging that navratilova and evert only had each other to play. Those two only had to worry about. Like connors said you cancel womens tournament and have them play a single match between evert and navratilova, because thats how poor the level of competition was.

Serena played for 3 decades and won against a variety of opponents . the mere effort of matching serenas level broke down the bodies of her opponents and when one opponent fell by the wayside and another fresher opponent took her place serena broke her down too.

I wont embarass graf by further exposing her limited competition. No wonder si listed her as the most overrated female tennis player of all time.

Your post ended at "only".

 

[Chadillac]

Serena vs seles head to head : 6-1

I


Just like you dismiss the opponents ranked outside number 1 and 2 as fillers. I can similarly dismiss non grand slam titles as insignificant . see two can play that game.


Just like you said tennis is more than grand slams , tennis is also more than the no1 and no2 playing every final because the rest of the field is crap.

Graf's poor competition has been exposed in my previous post.

7matches is enough to count her. Myskina only had 5

Graf started when chrissy and martina were declining, much like when serena met steffi. I forgot how old steffi was (in tennis years) didnt realize her and martina played that many times.

Serena is getting more wins, 785 now (martina has 1442). Martina has 167 titles, chrissy 157, graf 107 and serena 72.

 

[axlrose]

Serena vs seles head to head : 6-1

I


Just like you dismiss the opponents ranked outside number 1 and 2 as fillers. I can similarly dismiss non grand slam titles as insignificant . see two can play that game.


Just like you said tennis is more than grand slams , tennis is also more than the no1 and no2 playing every final because the rest of the field is crap.

Graf's poor competition has been exposed in my previous post.

The point here is Martina and Chris they both had a GOAt contender to be their main rival through all their career. You can't say it about Steffi and Serena.

It's much easier to dominate a bunch of so so players than a real decent opponents. Ask Fedr, 100% he would trade Nadal for another pack of Safin-Roddick-Hewitt-Blake-Gonzales... Ask Nadal, he would trade Djokovic for another pack of Murray-Wawrinka-Cilic-Berdych-Tsonga...

And once again, players nowdays save all their best for Slams. They also have all the means they need. Players in the past had not had it.

Statistically Serena seems to be the undisputed GOAT, but stats are for non tennis fans. If we look closer, Serena is not that impressive.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Evert and Navratilova competition : 22 slams

Wade : 3 slams
Goolagong : 7 slams
Austin : 2 slams
Mandlikova : 4 slams
Sue barket : 1 slam
Ruzizi : 1
Jordan : 1
Chris o neil : 1 slam
Jausovec : 1 slam
Reid : 1 slam



Graf competition : 18 slam
Seles : 9 slams
Asv : 4 slams
Sabatini : 1 slam
Martinez : 1
Pierce : 2
Novotna : 1


Serena's competition : 55 slams

Hingis - 5
Majoli - 1
Davenport - 3
Venus - 7
Capriati - 3
Henin - 7
Myskina - 1
Sharapova -5
Kuznetsova - 2
Clijster - 4
Mauresmo - 2
Ivanovic - 1
Schiavone -1
Na Li - 2
Kvitova - 2
stosur - 1
azarenka - 2
bartoli - 1
pennatta - 1
kerber - 2
murguza - 2
Wozniaki -1

This truly might be one of the most nonsensical posts I've ever read on TTW.

 

[Adi1987]

Your post ended at "only".

This truly might be one of the most nonsensical posts I've ever read on TTW.

Numbers usually dont make sense to people with irrational biases.

 

[Adi1987]

The point here is Martina and Chris they both had a GOAt contender to be their main rival through all their career. You can't say it about Steffi and Serena.

It's much easier to dominate a bunch of so so players than a real decent opponents. Ask Fedr, 100% he would trade Nadal for another pack of Safin-Roddick-Hewitt-Blake-Gonzales... Ask Nadal, he would trade Djokovic for another pack of Murray-Wawrinka-Cilic-Berdych-Tsonga...

And once again, players nowdays save all their best for Slams. They also have all the means they need. Players in the past had not had it.

Statistically Serena seems to be the undisputed GOAT, but stats are for non tennis fans. If we look closer, Serena is not that impressive.

People with "racial" biases often dont need facts and figures. They just cherry pick whatever suits their fancy and stick to their position , despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[Chadillac]

Numbers usually dont make sense to people with irrational biases.

You excluded many though. Good effort but when women play as long as these, there is massive crossover. Like seles vs serena, seles wasnt the player she was before stabbing. But credited as being a grand slam champion in your list.

Tennis is international, different races is nothing new for people in the sport.

Btw, they have played 5 times.
http://www.stevegtennis.com/head-to-head/women/Serena_Williams/Monica_Seles/

Close matches too for someone who was like 60% of her former self

 

[Adi1987]

You excluded many though. Good effort but when women play as long as these, there is massive crossover. Like seles vs serena, seles wasnt the player she was before stabbing. But credited as being a grand slam champion in your list.

Tennis is international, different races is nothing new for people in the sport.

Btw, they have played 5 times.
http://www.stevegtennis.com/head-to-head/women/Serena_Williams/Monica_Seles/

Close matches too for someone who was like 60% of her former self

That is why i seperated the opponents basis their own generation.

I wonder what happened to seles to cause her to play only at 60% . was it something graf did ?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Ewww

 

[axlrose]

People with "racial" biases often dont need facts and figures. They just cherry pick whatever suits their fancy and stick to their position , despite evidence to the contrary.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure

Just answer me, if you are Federer, would you want to face Nadal or (Roddick + Hewitt + ...) x 2?

 

[Chadillac]

That is why i seperated the opponents basis their own generation.

I wonder what happened to seles to cause her to play only at 60% . was it something graf did ?

Ya i see where your going.

She got stabbed and put on 100lbs

Some say it was graf that did something, but it wasnt steffi. Odd timing to pay off an old gambling debt with questionable ppl

 

[Adi1987]

Figures don't lie, but liars figure

Just answer me, if you are Federer, would you want to face Nadal or (Roddick + Hewitt + ...) x 2?

Nadal is infinitely a better player than roddick or hewitt. There is no question about that . i would prefer to play either hewitt or roddick over nadal any day especially on clay .

I have been honest and answered your question.

Now it is your turn , Would you prefer to play a tournament if you got a bye to the final and had to play nadal in the final or a tournament where you had to play berdych in r1, ferrero in r2, delpo in r3, roddick in r4, hewitt in qf , wawrinka in semis, murray in final.

 

[Tennisanity]

Seles all the way.

 

[axlrose]

Nadal is infinitely a better player than roddick or hewitt. There is no question about that . i would prefer to play either hewitt or roddick over nadal any day especially on clay .

I have been honest and answered your question.

Now it is your turn , Would you prefer to play a tournament if you got a bye to the final and had to play nadal in the final or a tournament where you had to play berdych in r1, ferrero in r2, delpo in r3, roddick in r4, hewitt in qf , wawrinka in semis, murray in final.

2, harsh - but at least I have a chance.

 

[Adi1987]

2, harsh - but at least I have a chance.

Thats good. You acknowledge the difficulty the second option poses. Now put your self in serenas shoes when she beat the following players to win her slams :

1) us open 99 : clijsters, martinez, seles, davenport, hingis

2) australian 05 : davenport, sharapova, mauresmo

3)australian 10: kvitova,stosur,azarenka, li na, henin

4) wimby 15 : venus, azarenka, sharapova mugruza

5)wimby 10 : kvitova, li na, sharapova

 

[Adi1987]

I have no problem if people want to christen navratilova as the goat. But they want to do so at the expense of diminshing serenas achievements which is something i cannot abide. Least of all from doperpova fans

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Meh, she played in a two women's tour.

 

[Chadillac]

I have no problem if people want to christen navratilova as the goat. But they want to do so at the expense of diminshing serenas achievements which is something i cannot abide. Least of all from doperpova fans

Court is the goat in gs, martina in titles/wins and graf for the golden grand slam.

Serena doesnt qualify for any of these catagories.

 

[big ted]

Evert and Navratilova competition : 22 slams

why did you group these two players together instead of separately like u did with the others? they were each other's competition as well..

 

[Deleted member 735320]

Martina is an example of why it is hard to compare across the decades. Clearly she has an impressive resume winning all the titles etc. Her longevity also shows how great she was. However, she won 6 slams in a row but never did win the Grand Slam in 1983 or 1984. Neither has Serena but both Court and Graf did in 1970 and 1988. Martina's doubles numbers are only challenged by Court.(Court won 40 major doubles titles to Martina's 41. Court managed only 2 ladies doubles at Wimbledon but won 4 or more titles in ladies doubles at the remaining three majors and mixed doubles at the 4 majors. Martina won 31 ladies and 10 mixed while Court showed more balance winning 19 ladies and 21 mixed over her career.) Martina clearly was a better ladies doubles player although some of her numbers may be inflated by being carried by her frequent partner, Pam Shriver, lol.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Numbers usually dont make sense to people with irrational biases.

Is that why there are no numbers instead of "only"?

To make your irrational biases less visible?

 

[MatsPhilander]

Mugu says she is better.

 

[2good4U]

She played against women.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

She won 18 Slam singles titles, and 31 Slam doubles titles including the Grand Slam of doubles in 1984. So, all together, 49 Slam titles, much higher than Roger, Serena, or Rafa. Her career records is 84%. From my perspective, she was much more of an all-court player than Serena and far more accomplished. She is my GOAT.

In my opinion, she can be female GOAT tennis pro
Not overall

 

[Adi1987]

Court is the goat in gs, martina in titles/wins and graf for the golden grand slam.

Serena doesnt qualify for any of these catagories.

Court is ahead of serena by 1 slam and will soon be taken over by serena.

Navratilova is impressive i admit.

Steffi has been surpassed

Doperpova was never in the conversation to begin with and will never be

 

[Adi1987]

Court is the goat in gs, martina in titles/wins and graf for the golden grand slam.

Serena doesnt qualify for any of these catagories.

Court is ahead of serena by 1 slam and will soon be taken over by serena.

Navratilova is impressive i admit.

Steffi has been surpassed

Doperpova was never in the conversation to begin with and will never be

 

[Adi1987]

why did you group these two players together instead of separately like u did with the others? they were each other's competition as well..

Even if you add 18 slams they still fall short of serenas . plus i made it to show they were the only competition to each other.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Nadal is infinitely a better player than roddick or hewitt. There is no question about that . i would prefer to play either hewitt or roddick over nadal any day especially on clay .

I have been honest and answered your question.

Now it is your turn , Would you prefer to play a tournament if you got a bye to the final and had to play nadal in the final or a tournament where you had to play berdych in r1, ferrero in r2, delpo in r3, roddick in r4, hewitt in qf , wawrinka in semis, murray in final.

"Now it's your turn would you rather..."

*makes up completely ridiculous analogy that has no basis in reality*