Is Rafa better than Novak on US open hard courts??

Is Rafa better than Novak on US open hard courts??

  • Total voters
    67
B

bullfan

Legend
timnz said:
Yes they do mean more. But not infinitely more...otherwise making the final means nothing....and we have already established that that isn't the case. The ATP recognizes that winning the titles means 2000/1200 more than the final ie 67% more. But that has been factored in in the calculation.

Repeating calculation post here:-


------------------------------------------------------------
Final have bigger factor than 0. Much bigger.
In fact we know exactly how much they are worth - the ATP tells us.

Let's take it away from personal opinion. Let's just measure it objectively on the hard data ie the specific US Open results.

Slam wins are worth 2000 points and Slam finals are worth 1200 points. Therefore making a slam final is 1200/2000 ie 60% of winning a Slam. Semi's are worth 720 points.

Hence the top five results for both players at the US Open are:

Nadal - 2 Wins, 1 losing Final, 2 losing semi-finals = (2000x2) + (1200x1) + (720x2) = 6640 points

Djokovic - 1 Win, 4 losing finals = (2000x1) + (1200x4) = 6800 points

So very close, but Djokovic ahead by a nose.

(We could look at the top 6 or top 7 performances instead of top 5 - but Djokovic is ahead on those counts as well).
Click to expand...

Repeating my point.....

Winning GS is most important, particularly when there's a h2h between the players in the finals. Novak is behind based on slam titles.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
The_Order said:
The question is US Open HC, not HC in general. In general, yes Novak is the better player on HC, but at the US Open, Nadal has beat him in 2/3 finals they played there. He's got 2 titles to 1 as a result of this and should therefore be considered better.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people are missing this part. I missed it myself at first.

So, considering that, yeah, Nadal is better since he has 2/3,compared to Novak's 1/5. If the trend were to continue, hypothetically, using the numbers we had it would be 4/6 compared to Nole's 2/10 and some would still say Nole was better.

You gotta love some of these people.
 
Y

yunafan

Banned
Lets say you gave a final 25% the value of a title. Nadal would still be ahead as Djokovic would have the value of 2 titles, and Nadal 2.25.
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
timnz said:
Yes they do mean more. But not infinitely more...otherwise making the final means nothing....and we have already established that that isn't the case. The ATP recognizes that winning the titles means 2000/1200 more than the final ie 67% more. But that has been factored in in the calculation.

Repeating calculation post here:-


------------------------------------------------------------
Final have bigger factor than 0. Much bigger.
In fact we know exactly how much they are worth - the ATP tells us.

Let's take it away from personal opinion. Let's just measure it objectively on the hard data ie the specific US Open results.

Slam wins are worth 2000 points and Slam finals are worth 1200 points. Therefore making a slam final is 1200/2000 ie 60% of winning a Slam. Semi's are worth 720 points.

Hence the top five results for both players at the US Open are:

Nadal - 2 Wins, 1 losing Final, 2 losing semi-finals = (2000x2) + (1200x1) + (720x2) = 6640 points

Djokovic - 1 Win, 4 losing finals = (2000x1) + (1200x4) = 6800 points

So very close, but Djokovic ahead by a nose.

(We could look at the top 6 or top 7 performances instead of top 5 - but Djokovic is ahead on those counts as well).
Click to expand...

You don't judge greatness on the ranking point system. Sure making the finals has some bearing on it, but the FACT is he has played against Nadal in 3 of the 5 finals he made. He only got the job done once.

Rafa is a multiple US Open champion and in turn, is directly responsible for Novak not being a multiple US Open champion.

You can calculate whatever you want, but no one in their right mind is going to say that Novak's better with one less title and a losing finals h2h against the guy he's being compared to.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
The_Order said:
You don't judge greatness on the ranking point system. Sure making the finals has some bearing on it, but the FACT is he has played against Nadal in 3 of the 5 finals he made. He only got the job done once.

Rafa is a multiple US Open champion and in turn, is directly responsible for Novak not being a multiple US Open champion.

You can calculate whatever you want, but no one in their right mind is going to say that Novak's better with one less title and a losing finals h2h against the guy he's being compared to.
Click to expand...

You are so funny. So no-nonsense and to the point, I know many of your posts aren't meant to be funny, but they are hilarious just the same.

Who's going to argue with you? Your facts are indisputable.
 
Chico

Chico

Banned
timnz said:
Yes they do mean more. But not infinitely more...otherwise making the final means nothing....and we have already established that that isn't the case. The ATP recognizes that winning the titles means 2000/1200 more than the final ie 67% more. But that has been factored in in the calculation.

Repeating calculation post here:-


------------------------------------------------------------
Final have bigger factor than 0. Much bigger.
In fact we know exactly how much they are worth - the ATP tells us.

Let's take it away from personal opinion. Let's just measure it objectively on the hard data ie the specific US Open results.

Slam wins are worth 2000 points and Slam finals are worth 1200 points. Therefore making a slam final is 1200/2000 ie 60% of winning a Slam. Semi's are worth 720 points.

Hence the top five results for both players at the US Open are:

Nadal - 2 Wins, 1 losing Final, 2 losing semi-finals = (2000x2) + (1200x1) + (720x2) = 6640 points

Djokovic - 1 Win, 4 losing finals = (2000x1) + (1200x4) = 6800 points

So very close, but Djokovic ahead by a nose.

(We could look at the top 6 or top 7 performances instead of top 5 - but Djokovic is ahead on those counts as well).
Click to expand...


Excellent analysis and proof Djokovic is ahead, which is clear to everyone but Nadal fans here.

/THREAD
 
H

helloworld

Hall of Fame
timnz said:
Yes they do mean more. But not infinitely more...otherwise making the final means nothing....and we have already established that that isn't the case. The ATP recognizes that winning the titles means 2000/1200 more than the final ie 67% more. But that has been factored in in the calculation.

Repeating calculation post here:-


------------------------------------------------------------
Final have bigger factor than 0. Much bigger.
In fact we know exactly how much they are worth - the ATP tells us.

Let's take it away from personal opinion. Let's just measure it objectively on the hard data ie the specific US Open results.

Slam wins are worth 2000 points and Slam finals are worth 1200 points. Therefore making a slam final is 1200/2000 ie 60% of winning a Slam. Semi's are worth 720 points.

Hence the top five results for both players at the US Open are:

Nadal - 2 Wins, 1 losing Final, 2 losing semi-finals = (2000x2) + (1200x1) + (720x2) = 6640 points

Djokovic - 1 Win, 4 losing finals = (2000x1) + (1200x4) = 6800 points

So very close, but Djokovic ahead by a nose.

(We could look at the top 6 or top 7 performances instead of top 5 - but Djokovic is ahead on those counts as well).
Click to expand...

So making 2 finals is greater than winning 1 title? I will take winning 1 title over making 10 finals with no win any day.
 
Chico

Chico

Banned
helloworld said:
So making 2 finals is greater than winning 1 title? I will take winning 1 title over making 10 finals with no win any day.
Click to expand...

You would not if you are making a living playing tennis.

10 finals are worth much more money than one title.
 
S

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
Chico said:
You would not if you are making a living playing tennis.

10 finals are worth much more money than one title.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you are talking about normal people. Djokovic and Nadal care more about the title than the prize money (pocketchange for them) after a tournament.
 
H

helloworld

Hall of Fame
Chico said:
You would not if you are making a living playing tennis.

10 finals are worth much more money than one title.
Click to expand...
Winning just 1 slam gives you a STAR reputation that comes along with countless endorsement opportunities!! Look at Murray before and after winning his first slam!! The difference in endorsement opportunity of winning a slam alone is enormous compared to the prize money.
 
5555

5555

Hall of Fame
Crose said:
Considering that he's won 6 out of their last 7 matches, he has a 63-3 record this season against Novak's 52-9 (10% better record), has 2 slams to Novak's 1, tied the record for most masters in a year this year, has won 10 out of the 12 finals he's made, and is undefeated in hard court this season, I'd say that it's pretty close to fact that he's better than Novak right now.
Click to expand...

Your answer is off topic. This thread is whether Nadal is better than Novak on US open hard courts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
I think Rafa peak level is better than Djokovic on grass.
2
Replies
61
Views
3K
RS
RS
neversaydienadalfan
Speed of US Open Courts 2017
Replies
8
Views
2K
Tiki-Taka
T
skypadq
i hope rafa wins agianst novak djokovic on us open one more time
Replies
12
Views
454
Third Serve
Third Serve
Conquistador
  • Poll
Roddick: Hard Courts Or Grass Courts
Replies
4
Views
484
RedWeb
R
G
If at the end of their careers, Rafael Nadal finishes with more US Open title than Novak Djokovic?
2 3 4
Replies
168
Views
7K
BringBackSV
B
Top