MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

[FiddlerDog]

Today's set was great. The tension of Sean was palpable and he was out of breath from the first point. Anyone who has played a big event knows this feeling, and then add a commentary booth and 6 film cameras. So raw.

Ian's commentary on the evolving mental state of the opponents as the set progressed was interesting. Ian really knows the mental gymnastics of tennis.

Very interesting to see @GSG actually get confused at the 4.0's inconsistency since he is used to 4.5 opponents, which made a gameplan less obvious to him.
What a wonderful insight to the strategic 4.5 adaptive thinking that GSG employs during a match.

Ben is a legend. Mental attitude difference of the two players was very instructive. Kudos to Ian and team for putting together this fun and intriguing series. Loving this journey.

 

[Mixeddubskickserve]

Today's set was great. The tension of Sean was palpable and he was out of breath from the first point. Anyone who has played a big event knows this feeling, and then add a commentary booth and 6 film cameras. So raw.

Ian's commentary on the evolving mental state of the opponents as the set progressed was interesting. Ian really knows the mental gymnastics of tennis.

Very interesting to see @GSG actually get confused at the 4.0's inconsistency since he is used to 4.5 opponents, which made a gameplan less obvious to him.
What a wonderful insight to the strategic 4.5 adaptive thinking that GSG employs during a match.

Ben is a legend. Mental attitude difference of the two players was very instructive. Kudos to Ian and team for putting together this fun and intriguing series. Loving this journey.

Just one tiny question are they both not rated as 4.5s on the channel?

 

[Jack the Hack]

Just one tiny question are they both not rated as 4.5s on the channel?

Ben played 4 opponents in Milwaukie for the ET channel. The first two opponents, Sean and Topher, are rated 4.0. The last two opponents, Scott and Ian are rated 4.5, same as Ben. This was done so that Ben could ramp up the level of play and get used to the indoor court before having to face Ian on his home surface.

This is explained in the first 9 minutes of this livestream here, along with profiles of each player:

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I can relate to the near hyperventilation of Sean: some times it's legit when I play long, furious points. But more often it's when I'm tight, nervous, and fail to breathe properly, which can easily happen when you're playing someone you think you "should" beat but for whatever reason, you're clearly not. You miss a few sitters, you make a few bad decisions, you DF when you normally don't...and it can snowball.

 

[zipplock]

Ben played 4 opponents in Milwaukie for the ET channel. The first two opponents, Sean and Topher, are rated 4.0. The last two opponents, Scott and Ian are rated 4.5, same as Ben. This was done so that Ben could ramp up the level of play and get used to the indoor court before having to face Ian on his home surface.

This is explained in the first 9 minutes of this livestream here, along with profiles of each player:

I think it was set up this way to give Ian 3 first person looks at Ben and to be fresh against a guy that is 3 matches in .....

 

[AnyPUG]

I think it was set up this way to give Ian 3 first person looks at Ben and to be fresh against a guy that is 3 matches in .....

They could have played 3 practice matches with each other before the final real match to keep the contest even.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I think it was set up this way to give Ian 3 first person looks at Ben and to be fresh against a guy that is 3 matches in .....

Wasn't it Ben's idea to play multiple matches? Maybe to get accustomed to playing indoors?

 

[GSG]

Wasn't it Ben's idea to play multiple matches? Maybe to get accustomed to playing indoors?

It was my idea. I did want to attempt to acclimate myself to the fast indoor court in advance of playing Ian, but more than that, I wanted to optimize the value of making the trip up there. Flying up for one night to play (which is what we initially discussed) would have been quite an investment for just one match. To his credit, Ian was enthusiastic and supportive when I subsequently proposed playing multiple matches, and he immediately sprung into action to get the logistics worked out.

Now, did my playing so much give my ET opponents an advantage, either from my wearing down and/or their having several opportunities to watch me play in person? I guess we'll find out soon-ish, but regardless of how things turn(ed) out, I wouldn't change anything about my decision. There was no perfect solution to navigating this situation. The bottom line for me is that I love to play, and when given the choice of playing more good tennis or less, 99% of the time I'm going to choose more.

Playing four matches in three days up there was also a great way to prep to play in the State 4.5 championship here, which was last weekend. That could have been as many as five singles matches in three days, in an environment where weather/fatigue were much greater factors. As it turns out, I had four singles matches, with one doubles match in the middle to break them up. Going into States with the recent experience of having played the ET matches enabled me to handle States much better than I would have otherwise I think

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

It was my idea. I did want to attempt to acclimate myself to the fast indoor court in advance of playing Ian, but more than that, I wanted to optimize the value of making the trip up there. Flying up for one night to play (which is what we initially discussed) would have been quite an investment for just one match. To his credit, Ian was enthusiastic and supportive when I subsequently proposed playing multiple matches, and he immediately sprung into action to get the logistics worked out.

Now, did my playing so much give my ET opponents an advantage, either from my wearing down and/or their having several opportunities to watch me play in person? I guess we'll find out soon-ish, but regardless of how things turn(ed) out, I wouldn't change anything about my decision. There was no perfect solution to navigating this situation. The bottom line for me is that I love to play, and when given the choice of playing more good tennis or less, 99% of the time I'm going to choose more.

Playing four matches in three days up there was also a great way to prep to play in the State 4.5 championship here, which was last weekend. That could have been as many as five singles matches in three days, in an environment where weather/fatigue were much greater factors. As it turns out, I had four singles matches, with one doubles match in the middle to break them up. Going into States with the recent experience of having played the ET matches enabled me to handle States much better than I would have otherwise I think

Based on what I've seen of your matches pre-ET, especially if they were in the ATL heat/humidity, you don't seem to be the one who is going to tire out first. Just watching the first set vs Sean, he's huffing and puffing [probably more due to nerves and therefore not breathing properly than anything else] and you aren't breathing hard at all, like you just walked in the door.

If you ever come out to SoCal, I'd love to play. In any case, keep up the fight!

How did you do at States?

 

[zipplock]

Wasn't it Ben's idea to play multiple matches? Maybe to get accustomed to playing indoors?

I can see one match, but 3? Anyways, I will respect this ONLY if Ian flies out to ATL and plays Ben on his court. Otherwise it's just too WWE for me. I prefer the @TennisTroll way to the ET way.

 

[GSG]

If you ever come out to SoCal, I'd love to play. In any case, keep up the fight!

How did you do at States?

Thanks, I appreciate the invite. I used to go to SD fairly often when my sister lived there. I haven't been back in a while now, but I've always enjoyed it there.

States was interesting. I played S2 Singles twice on Friday and got shellacked both times by guys who should probably be 5.0s. In the first match, they clearly punted their S1, as our guy beat him 1 & 1 in about 45 min. I was pretty demoralized after the first day. I had expected to play better. I knew these guys I had played were good, but I didn't realize just how good. Then a funny thing happened. These two guys, who each play for smaller, non-Atlanta area teams, each played five singles matches apiece. By the time they finished, they had lost a combined total of once, when one of them beat the other! Meanwhile, on Saturday I managed to beat a very good player who had beaten me in the past, and on Sunday (or "fun day" for us, being out of contention by then) I played a guy with a brutally fast serve but who primarily plays doubles. I managed to hold all my service games and break him a time or two, and he retired down a set and 3-2 in the second saying his elbow had nothing left to give.

So all told, our team went 1-4, losing 3 of those matches via close third set TB (grr) but our one win was against the team that won States. I went 2-2 at singles and "won" a doubles match 1-0 when the other team retired due to injury after a single game.

 

[zipplock]

Thanks, I appreciate the invite. I used to go to SD fairly often when my sister lived there. I haven't been back in a while now, but I've always enjoyed it there.

States was interesting. I played S2 Singles twice on Friday and got shellacked both times by guys who should probably be 5.0s. In the first match, they clearly punted their S1, as our guy beat him 1 & 1 in about 45 min. I was pretty demoralized after the first day. I had expected to play better. I knew these guys I had played were good, but I didn't realize just how good. Then a funny thing happened. These two guys, who each play for smaller, non-Atlanta area teams, each played five singles matches apiece. By the time they finished, they had lost a combined total of once, when one of them beat the other! Meanwhile, on Saturday I managed to beat a very good player who had beaten me in the past, and on Sunday (or "fun day" for us, being out of contention by then) I played a guy with a brutally fast serve but who primarily plays doubles. I managed to hold all my service games and break him a time or two, and he retired down a set and 3-2 in the second saying his elbow had nothing left to give.

So all told, our team went 1-4, losing 3 of those matches via close third set TB (grr) but our one win was against the team that won States. I went 2-2 at singles and "won" a doubles match 1-0 when the other team retired due to injury after a single game.

Prepare to be bumped. The shade you're going to get as a 5.0 will make everything up till now look like love poems

 

[Raul_SJ]

Video title says"4.5 NTRP Match Play". And Sean plays like a 4.5. Dont think Sean is 4.0.
Granted Sean made a lot of UFE on easy balls.

But Sean is serving at 4-5 at the end of Part I.
Sean and GSG are very evenly matched!

 

[Jack the Hack]

I can see one match, but 3? Anyways, I will respect this ONLY if Ian flies out to ATL and plays Ben on his court. Otherwise it's just too WWE for me. I prefer the @TennisTroll way to the ET way.

That was also addressed in the livestream video I linked. Ian said that he wants to arrange a Davis Cup style set of matches with his group from ET traveling down to the ATL to play guys from the Tennis Troll channel. I assume that won't happen for a bit, but should be fun to watch when it occurs.

This wouldn't be the first time Ian has done something like that. He and another former ET pro played the guys from PYC a couple years ago.

 

[Jack the Hack]

BTW, it's super cool to have Ben and the Tennis Troll guy (Subash?) on this forum for direct interaction and feedback.

Between ET, the Tennis Troll, and a couple other YT channels, I've watched more amateur tennis than professional this past year. It's fun and helps fill the void when everything has been locked down or cancelled where I'm at. Seeing all the beautiful courts in the ATL has even made me consider relocating!

 

[dman72]

I have it on good authority that he uses the metal 26" racquets from Wal-mart. He doesn't bother restringing them. It's cheaper to just buy a new racquet with factory strings

It's funny because some 3.5-4.0 people on this forum will talk for hours about Feds or Nadals racket specs, seeking to obtain the golden goose winning spec....meanwhile a guy who will beat 90% of people here but has at least an attainable level for recreational players who can't hit every day and train with world class coaches...wouldn't it make more sense to talk about what he uses?

 

[5263]

BTW, it's super cool to have Ben and the Tennis Troll guy (Subash?) on this forum for direct interaction and feedback.

Between ET, the Tennis Troll, and a couple other YT channels, I've watched more amateur tennis than professional this past year. It's fun and helps fill the void when everything has been locked down or cancelled where I'm at. Seeing all the beautiful courts in the ATL has even made me consider relocating!

In the Atl we have some great tennis opportunity!

 

[heninfan99]

I want to respond to Mark's video. I admit that "stealing" subscriber is not a good choice of word. I will own up to it and take that down.

He's definitely poaching them. No one would know who he is otherwise.

 

[GuyClinch]

It's funny because some 3.5-4.0 people on this forum will talk for hours about Feds or Nadals racket specs, seeking to obtain the golden goose winning spec....meanwhile a guy who will beat 90% of people here but has at least an attainable level for recreational players who can't hit every day and train with world class coaches...wouldn't it make more sense to talk about what he uses?

Not really because is not about the racquet. Not to mention less the 90% of people have the stamina or patience to play like Ben. It's just not productive to pick one 4.5 and say wow because he plays that way and is 4.5 - everyone should play that way. Most people would go down in level if they tried to play like Ben. Design your game around stamina and patience and you will lose like crazy if you don't have those things.

 

[dman72]

Not really because is not about the racquet. Not to mention less the 90% of people have the stamina or patience to play like Ben. It's just not productive to pick one 4.5 and say wow because he plays that way and is 4.5 - everyone should play that way. Most people would go down in level if they tried to play like Ben. Design your game around stamina and patience and you will lose like crazy if you don't have those things.

I think my point is that it isn't about the racquet, but many people on this site and who play tennis think it is..at least judging by the number of RF97's I see in rec tennis.

 

[TennisDawg]

I think my point is that it isn't about the racquet, but many people on this site and who play tennis think it is..at least judging by the number of RF97's I see in rec tennis.

Perhaps but it’s probably because many Rec players like the feel of players racquets. Some players prefer head light heavier frames that you don’t get when you buy a Walmart racquet. GSG’s game is more suited for a wide body oversized frame and a low power headlight heavier RF97 would probably hinder his style. I have 2 RF97s because I like heavier headlight frames. I find them to be arm friendly and predictable. If I don’t hit the ball right it’s me not the racquet. I’ve always been partial to the heavier pro staff frames. They are also your worst enemy if you push your shots.

 

[FiddlerDog]

he retired down a set and 3-2 in the second saying his elbow had nothing left to give.

he retired down a set and 3-2 in the second saying his elbow SOUL had nothing left to give.

I've watched more amateur tennis than professional this past year.

I couldn't wait to get home and watch set 1 yesterday.
This match up of various styles is the true essence of tennis in my rec tennis world.
I may never watch homogeneous ATP Tennis again.
Long live GSG !! GSG IS TENNIS.

 

[Happi]

Long live GSG !! GSG IS TENNIS.

I would rather stop playing tennis than playing the GSG ugly style of tennis.

 

[TennisProdigy]

I would rather stop playing tennis than playing the GSG ugly style of tennis.

To each their own.

Some people value “looking good” on court.

Some people value winning on court.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Thanks, I appreciate the invite. I used to go to SD fairly often when my sister lived there. I haven't been back in a while now, but I've always enjoyed it there.

States was interesting. I played S2 Singles twice on Friday and got shellacked both times by guys who should probably be 5.0s. In the first match, they clearly punted their S1, as our guy beat him 1 & 1 in about 45 min. I was pretty demoralized after the first day. I had expected to play better. I knew these guys I had played were good, but I didn't realize just how good. Then a funny thing happened. These two guys, who each play for smaller, non-Atlanta area teams, each played five singles matches apiece. By the time they finished, they had lost a combined total of once, when one of them beat the other! Meanwhile, on Saturday I managed to beat a very good player who had beaten me in the past, and on Sunday (or "fun day" for us, being out of contention by then) I played a guy with a brutally fast serve but who primarily plays doubles. I managed to hold all my service games and break him a time or two, and he retired down a set and 3-2 in the second saying his elbow had nothing left to give.

So all told, our team went 1-4, losing 3 of those matches via close third set TB (grr) but our one win was against the team that won States. I went 2-2 at singles and "won" a doubles match 1-0 when the other team retired due to injury after a single game.

It might have been stated somewhere in this giant thread but curious what your singles/doubles UTR is?

 

[sureshs]

I would rather stop playing tennis than playing the GSG ugly style of tennis.

It is about what appeals to you. The GSG style requires a lot of running and shot tolerance. I would adopt a middle ground - incorporate more drop shots to complement by massive topspin game, and find more empty spaces without feeling guilty about it.

Mind you more running will wear out your knees quickly, and always playing a cat and mouse game will cause your partner count to dwindle, and actually harm your game as you find no one to hit with. Partners will suddenly start having aches and pains and errands to run. There is a guy like that at my club, and I am the only one who calls him to play doubles. Everyone else has bailed. He has to force himself on others if he wants to play. But on the other hand, if you find people genuinely interested in improving, who knows they may actively seek out a GSG kind of guy. It depends on the microculture of your playing environment. "Fitting in" is very important in rec tennis.

 

[FIRETennis]

Are they really releasing half a match every few days?

 

[chazz]

Are they really releasing half a match every few days?

At this point I'm seriously considering just waiting until all of the matches are uploaded sometime in mid July and just binge watching them.

 

[sureshs]

The window of interest has passed.

 

[TennisProdigy]

The window of interest has passed.

ET got 18K views in one day, just because some of y’all are impatient doesn’t mean everyone else has lost interest...

Ian is doing an amazing job milking the MEP saga for all it’s worth.

 

[sureshs]

ET got 18K views in one day, just because some of y’all are impatient doesn’t mean everyone else has lost interest...

Ian is doing an amazing job milking the MEP saga for all it’s worth.

Views are not as important as click-throughs leading to purchase

 

[dman72]

Perhaps but it’s probably because many Rec players like the feel of players racquets. Some players prefer head light heavier frames that you don’t get when you buy a Walmart racquet. GSG’s game is more suited for a wide body oversized frame and a low power headlight heavier RF97 would probably hinder his style. I have 2 RF97s because I like heavier headlight frames. I find them to be arm friendly and predictable. If I don’t hit the ball right it’s me not the racquet. I’ve always been partial to the heavier pro staff frames. They are also your worst enemy if you push your shots.

In one of the videos he's using a Prince Textreme tour. That isn't a "widebody oversized frame" unless it's 1976.

 

[chetrbox]

ET got 18K views in one day, just because some of y’all are impatient doesn’t mean everyone else has lost interest...

Ian is doing an amazing job milking the MEP saga for all it’s worth.

The problem with the way he is "milking" the MEP matches is that it won't scale for him. I'm now wary of getting into any new characters the Essential Tennis Universe may introduce. It's just not fun watching matches the way he is presenting them - he's not even showing the whole set in one video. As soon as the MEP matches are done, I'm going to unsubscribe from his channel and avoid his content all together. It's unlikely he's going to find characters as compelling as MEP again - the rest of his stable are similar to tons of other youtube rec tennis warriors.
I might be in the minority for now, but if he keeps this up I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people he annoys increases significantly.

 

[chazz]

At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Ian made a series of videos prior to uploading his match with GSG talking about what has been learned so far from the previous matches that were uploaded. I hope Tennis Troll never goes corporate with his channel. Here's a guy with nothing but an Iphone on a selfie stick that he duct tapes to the back fence. His matches are compelling without a team of video editors and thousands of dollars in audio and video equipment. You want to talk about compelling characters, not only did Tennis Troll discover GSG but he uploaded a video of a guy playing in his pajamas. lol It's getting very aggravating how this whole GSG is being milked for all it's worth. Sure there are lots of people who will watch and support whatever Ian does with his channel but if he's honest he has to know this is not coming across too well for him. Four matches spread out over many months is a bit much.

 

[tonylg]

LOL .. 26 page thread .. about what?

I watched about 5 minutes of a link to "ET Ian's" youtube content (unrelated to this epic matchup) .. and that was enough for me.

I guess it's better than watching trashy reality tv. Just

 

[GSG]

As soon as the MEP matches are done, I'm going to unsubscribe from his channel and avoid his content all together.

To extend my staying power, I made Ian promise that the final video will not be posted until 2047

 

[time_fly]

To extend my staying power, I made Ian promise that the final video will not be posted until 2047

He’s not quite going to make it by then at this pace, but maybe he will pick it up.

 

[GuyClinch]

I think my point is that it isn't about the racquet, but many people on this site and who play tennis think it is..at least judging by the number of RF97's I see in rec tennis.

I haven't seen that much in tennis tips - maybe on the racquet forums. But this is a website for racquet sales. Do you go to car enthusiast sites and complain people think a new car will make them a better driver? With both cars and racquets people just like how some play.. I demoed Fed's racquet - I thought it played great.. (I didn't buy it though - I am cheap). Likewise It's okay to drive Corvette even if you don't know how to get a great lap at nurburgring. I am sure some pro driver could beat me with a Camry.. I still wouldn't mind Corvette.

 

[AnyPUG]

At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Ian made a series of videos prior to uploading his match with GSG talking about what has been learned so far from the previous matches that were uploaded. I hope Tennis Troll never goes corporate with his channel. Here's a guy with nothing but an Iphone on a selfie stick that he duct tapes to the back fence. His matches are compelling without a team of video editors and thousands of dollars in audio and video equipment. You want to talk about compelling characters, not only did Tennis Troll discover GSG but he uploaded a video of a guy playing in his pajamas. lol It's getting very aggravating how this whole GSG is being milked for all it's worth. Sure there are lots of people who will watch and support whatever Ian does with his channel but if he's honest he has to know this is not coming across too well for him. Four matches spread out over many months is a bit much.

Tennis Troll is a charity initiative in someone's free time. And Troll himself referred to it before, in an indirect way it's also your tax dollars at work (or pleasure?)
On the other end, ET is a business venture with several fulltime employees - you got to expect different priorities and experiences. ET has been running a successful business, I imagine they know how to do it while ensuring long term interests of their survival and growth.

 

[TennisProdigy]

The problem with the way he is "milking" the MEP matches is that it won't scale for him. I'm now wary of getting into any new characters the Essential Tennis Universe may introduce. It's just not fun watching matches the way he is presenting them - he's not even showing the whole set in one video. As soon as the MEP matches are done, I'm going to unsubscribe from his channel and avoid his content all together. It's unlikely he's going to find characters as compelling as MEP again - the rest of his stable are similar to tons of other youtube rec tennis warriors.
I might be in the minority for now, but if he keeps this up I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people he annoys increases significantly.

I’ll go on his channel after the MEP saga ends, problem solved.

 

[zipplock]

At this point I'm seriously considering just waiting until all of the matches are uploaded sometime in mid July and just binge watching them.

I am not going to watch. The exploitation is over the top. I understand trying to make a buck, but ET is being too greedy on this one.

 

[AnyPUG]

Unsubscribe and demand full refund!

Just imagine the riot in front of ET courts, if subscription had a fee !!!

 

[tonylg]

I am not going to watch. The exploitation is over the top. I understand trying to make a buck, but ET is being too greedy on this one.

You've got to admit, it's either very fortuitous or a genius move to do this during the clay season when many tennis fans take a break from watching the ATP.

I haven't watched a tennis match since Miami, but I'm not yet desperate enough to take another look at ET.

 

[chetrbox]

I’ll go on his channel after the MEP saga ends, problem solved.

You can do better than that - plug his channel on your fishing channel. "Fishing requires tons of patience. If you need to learn how to keep waiting while nothing of import happens, please subscribe to Essential Tennis"

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I think my point is that it isn't about the racquet, but many people on this site and who play tennis think it is..at least judging by the number of RF97's I see in rec tennis.

Yes, do you ever judge someone using an RF97? If I see one at the 4.0 level I think it's probably going to be an easy win because they will have no idea what they are doing with the stick, just limiting their own game and bunting everything back. If I see one in a 4.5 match, I get a little bit more cautious, I might be in for a long day and/or destruction if they can really swing the RF.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Yes, do you ever judge someone using an RF97? If I see one at the 4.0 level I think it's probably going to be an easy win because they will have no idea what they are doing with the stick, just limiting their own game and bunting everything back. If I see one in a 4.5 match, I get a little bit more cautious, I might be in for a long day and/or destruction if they can really swing the RF.

I don't pay much attention to what racquet they have. I care a lot more about how they use it.

 

[megamind]

Are they really releasing half a match every few days?

You're giving them too much credit

It's just half a set every few days

Not even a full one

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I think my point is that it isn't about the racquet, but many people on this site and who play tennis think it is..at least judging by the number of RF97's I see in rec tennis.

I don't HAVE to think a racquet will improve my game to have my preferences. I want to enjoy the feel a racquet gives me, that's all. I don't want elbow-itis and I also don't want to swing a log.

It's the same as, I don't have to think myself capable of outracing Sabine Schmidt on the Nurburgring to have my preferences when it comes to cars.

 

[heninfan99]

To each their own.

Some people value “looking good” on court.

Some people value winning on court.

These are not mutually exclusive.

 

[heninfan99]

ET got 18K views in one day,
Ian is doing an amazing job milking the MEP saga for all it’s worth.

I saw a tennis video on grips that had 142k views. What's a good view number for YT?