tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
0-6 against Federer since 2014 AO, 0-8 against Djokovic since 2013 USO.
I thought about it and then I said it. Discuss.
I thought about it and then I said it. Discuss.
Nadal 0-14 against Federer/Djokovic outside of clay since 2013US/2014AO
- Thread starter tennis_pro
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Born Again
Rookie
Ouch!
Breakpointerer
Legend
Yikes
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
G0at, n0?
James695
Rookie
Tried to start a thread about this stat last night but got my maths slightly wrong and said it was 0-16 (don’t drink and post) so thread went nowhere.
Another crazy stat. Outside of clay Federer was won 9 of their last 10 sets!
14 of their last 18 sets!
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So what you are saying that when things are even and Rafa doesn't have age advantage, he gets destroyed by Federer away from clay?
Nole also relies more on athleticism, so it will be interesting to see now that Nole is slower and things are even, how he will do against Federer. So, if Nole still wins, no excuses from me, he earns it, since he is not in his 2015 peak and Fed seems a bit better than in 2015.
Feather
Legend
Had Roger broken Rafa in the third game of the second set, most probably it would have ended in straight sets..
Luka888
Professional
The problem is when Nole slows down Rafa will too. Rafa is already slow. Novak looks fine. Not like in 2011 but still. I knew about this stat btw. It's a good thread.
killerboss
Professional
Djokovic isn't that surprising (Federer himself is about to go 0-4 in slams since around the same time period). Federer is the surprising one. Shows how far gone Rafa is out of clay these days. He can't win against top players anymore.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
i was trolling.
There's a high chance that he will be the first to retire. People keep saying that he can win at least 1 or 2 more FO's(which won't help him much anyway since the more he wins it the less valuable it becomes) but he plays worse and worse with every passing year while being fully fit.He was really lucky that Djokovic floundered vs Thiem which gifted him the win in similar fashion to 2011.
He had his chances at AO17 and WB18 and wasn't good enough.He can't hang with them anymore and it will get only worse from now on.If he ever meets Djokovic in slam i expect similar beatings to AO19.There is no more a Big 3(as stats show it it stopped being a thing since 2014, outside clay Nadal pose no more threat than Agut and is part of the so called weak era field himself).
If Federer can't win tomorrow, the Goat debate will be pretty much over. In 2 Years Djokovic will reign supreme alone at the top.
He had his chances at AO17 and WB18 and wasn't good enough.He can't hang with them anymore and it will get only worse from now on.If he ever meets Djokovic in slam i expect similar beatings to AO19.There is no more a Big 3(as stats show it it stopped being a thing since 2014, outside clay Nadal pose no more threat than Agut and is part of the so called weak era field himself).
If Federer can't win tomorrow, the Goat debate will be pretty much over. In 2 Years Djokovic will reign supreme alone at the top.
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I'm talking about Nole slowing down helping Fed, not helping Rafa. Fed relied more on skills and serve, so he is declining slower than those guys, at least on paper it looks like that versus Nole, we will see on Sunday.
I can't even tell, because Nadal fans are actually serious when they bring age as an excuse as to why Nadal is loing. This is the funny part.
killerboss
Professional
He's got his consistency back. Take a look at his slam results in recent times. Quite a lot of deep runs. Federer and Djokovic are going to decline as well and the field is dreadful. I can see him winning a couple more slams.
All of that applies to Nadal as well and as it is proven, he is the one most affected by the decline. It's true that he is consistently making deep runs but when he faces either Djokovic or Federer there is not much of a contest.He is in the Murray position, good but not good enough.People never lumped Murray together with them even though he was making finals and semifinals consistently which is exactly the same situation Nadal is in since 2014.The only exception is that he is the clay goat and no one will take that from him but he proved that ages ago.Adding more FO for him has become just a number. It won't propel him above Federer even if he somehow gets more total slams if he only wins FO.
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killerboss
Professional
He is in a Murray position. And Murray himself eventually won slams, beating Djokovic twice in 2 of his slams. Murray was good enough to win slams, just like Nadal. Haven't Federer fans been saying for years that slam count is what really matters and what puts him ahead of the others? Now suddenly it wouldn't matter if Nadal wins more French Opens and overtakes him?
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
Ah the good old 2015 season, where Nadal still showed up to face his rivals despite playing pathetic for almost 2 years.
Pity Djokovic didn't see Nadal in his 2017-18 slump period as much, or there would've been beatdown on every surface.
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
James695
Rookie
Why is 'ouside of clay' considered a topic? Clay makes up a decent portion of the calendar as well. A loss is a loss on any surface. Accept it
Why is it not a topic? We are discussing why nadal cant cope with his two main rivals outside of clay anymore. It’s a valid point of discussion no? As 3 of the 4 slams are not on clay it’s important.
No one is saying he isn’t still the best on clay but we are discussing something else.
It’s fine to discuss more than one topic. There are hundreds of Nadal clay threads on this forum. Stay on them if this question doesn’t interest you.
Zardoz7/12
Hall of Fame
Shangri La
Hall of Fame
So 18 to 20 looks so close yet so far away.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
He saw him at Madrid 2017 Rome 2018 and Wimbledon 2018.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Why is 'ouside of clay' considered a topic? Clay makes up a decent portion of the calendar as well. A loss is a loss on any surface. Accept it
Undisputed Clay Goat. Nothing more nothing less
TennisaGoGo
Semi-Pro
This thread sure is different than the match thread while the two men were actually playing each other. Apparently Nadal stinks today.
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
So really only 2 meeting when Djokovic was still not in good form.
By Wimbledon 18 he was playing well.
Nadal suffered 4 defeats to Djokovic in 2015, and 3 more in 2016.
7 and 2 aren't really the same...
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Rafa is an all-surface player. And that's a fact. Yes, he is the clay GOAT, but he is still a multi-surface ATG.
Djoker and Fed are better outside of clay than he is, which is no shame. Just like Rafa is much better than them on clay.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Nadal was injured in all of those matches.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed is expected. He is 6 years older.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well, in his case it doesn't since they are not younger than him. Djokovic is the same age and Fed is 5 years older
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
It’s been pretty clear to me for a long time that Nadal post AO14 is a totally different player than pre. Much Slower and more surface/draw dependent
zagor
Bionic Poster
Well, in his case it doesn't since they are not younger than him. Djokovic is the same age and Fed is 5 years older
Nah, it does. Because it diminished certain aspects of his game/forced him to adapt a different playing style which made him a bigger underdog off clay.
Of course if Fed and Novak were 5 years younger than Rafa it would have been even worse. Mid-late twenties Fed would have toyed with 30+ Nadal at Wimbledon for example.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
His parents got divorced.
Sorry_to_tell_you_mate
Professional
Are you aware that if it wasn't for the clay season domination Nadal would be fully healthy and mentally and physically fresh for most of the grass and hard tournaments?
Think about it.
Think about it.
Martin J
Hall of Fame
The same logic applies for any other player, Federer also played fair number of matches in the the clay court season, Djokovic too.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
And thats purely his decision. Not an excuse. Fed played Halle while Rafa took a holiday.
Sorry_to_tell_you_mate
Professional
Not really, Nadal plays Barcelona and plays more matches than any other player in most clay tournaments and spends more time on court because of his style os play. That's true for 90% of the years.
Sorry_to_tell_you_mate
Professional
It's not an excuse, as you said it's his decision. Just a fact.
James695
Rookie
Nadal has a 0-14 against the big 3 off clay since A014. And the reason is.......drumroll.........
Because he plays Barcelona.
I’ve really heard every excuse now.
Martin J
Hall of Fame
And other players usually play a warm up tournament on grass, some of them even more than one, while Nadal is resting. We could use the same logic and say Djokovic and Federer (and every other player who plays on grass) are exhausted during the American HC season because they played a full schedule on grass, while Nadal usually loses early and have more time to recover.
The fact is that he isn't as good on grass as Fedovic, thus his results aren't as impressive.
Sorry_to_tell_you_mate
Professional
Read again because I didn't say that.
He plays too many tiring matches in a row during the clay season. It's not an excuse, it's a fact, whether you like it or not.
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