Nadal / Djokovic and the Race to #1 !!!
- Thread starter Bud
- Start date
Clarky21
Banned
Ok,gotcha.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Excellent post! Quoted for truth. Some of these idiots are truly deluded. Just because you don't win every tournament does not mean you're not at your best.
Talker
Hall of Fame
Nadal will have a tough time.
Djokovic is playing at least as well as Nadal on clay, this is where Nadal always had an advantage in gaining points.
Djokovic is better on hard court, that's all there is to it.
The points for #1 are just the best total for the past 12 months and right now Djokovic has the advantage on all surfaces so should maintain #1... theoretically.
No need to get into points being defended.
Djokovic is playing at least as well as Nadal on clay, this is where Nadal always had an advantage in gaining points.
Djokovic is better on hard court, that's all there is to it.
The points for #1 are just the best total for the past 12 months and right now Djokovic has the advantage on all surfaces so should maintain #1... theoretically.
No need to get into points being defended.
To beat Djokovic, Nadal must improve his backhand big time.
Almost everytime they are in a neutral rally, and eventually Nadal start hitting backhands, sooner or later it lands short without much pace and from then on Djokovic take control of the point, Nadal start to run behind the ball and the point is over in two or three more shots.
Djokovic has been destroying Nadal's backhand time and time again this season.
At least in Indian Wells and Miami Rafa's backhand was a bit flatter with more pace and depth many times (almost as good as it was during his USOPEN final of last year), even flat winners down the line sometimes.
But after he lost those two finals, his confidence started to break down. On clay, in Madrid and Rome, he almost always looped his bachhand weak and short, with no pace, and most of the time crosscourt. Djokovic ate those weak looping backhands for lunch and murdered Rafa once and again.
It has got to a point (the low confidence in his backhand) that I am sure every time they are playing an important point, Nole is simply waiting Rafa to hit some backhands, and from then on, the point is his.
No matter how good he may serve, no matter how good his forehand may play everyday. As long as his backhand is such an inferior stroke to Djokovic's, chances are slim for Rafa.
Almost everytime they are in a neutral rally, and eventually Nadal start hitting backhands, sooner or later it lands short without much pace and from then on Djokovic take control of the point, Nadal start to run behind the ball and the point is over in two or three more shots.
Djokovic has been destroying Nadal's backhand time and time again this season.
At least in Indian Wells and Miami Rafa's backhand was a bit flatter with more pace and depth many times (almost as good as it was during his USOPEN final of last year), even flat winners down the line sometimes.
But after he lost those two finals, his confidence started to break down. On clay, in Madrid and Rome, he almost always looped his bachhand weak and short, with no pace, and most of the time crosscourt. Djokovic ate those weak looping backhands for lunch and murdered Rafa once and again.
It has got to a point (the low confidence in his backhand) that I am sure every time they are playing an important point, Nole is simply waiting Rafa to hit some backhands, and from then on, the point is his.
No matter how good he may serve, no matter how good his forehand may play everyday. As long as his backhand is such an inferior stroke to Djokovic's, chances are slim for Rafa.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Especially when one has made every single (master and slam) final since the start of the season.
What decline?
People who claim Rafa will start losing in early rounds because of lack of confidence are completely deluded. They're totally underestimating Rafa's mental.
Reality is that Djoko and Rafa are the 2 best players on tour right now. In which order depends on so many parameters (either one of them being injured for instance could alter things drastically) that we'll just have to wait and see.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Yikes Bud, most disastrous timing for my post. Well, mea culpa, I was wrong, the W loss affected Rafa's mental more than I thought.
I don't know if Djoko is a lock. His draw is much tougher than Fed's.
I don't know if Djoko is a lock. His draw is much tougher than Fed's.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
There's so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to start.
Forget about the results, but if you look at the movement, footwork and the mental game of Nadal this year, you would know that at NO POINT this year, has he looked anywhere close to his 2010/2008 level..
Bud
Bionic Poster
Herios
Rookie
Nadal now only 1090 points behind Djokovic
The Djoker got a zero pointer for not enough 500 tournaments played and Nadal's zero pointer is off the books
This has gotten even more interesting
And now he gives away a big chunk of those points he got for Barca. Let's see if Novak makes it to the SF, and defends his points. I will reiterate to you, Novak is a better HC player than Rafa so it makes sense for him to stay ranked 1 for the rest of the year, unless Roger catches fire and beats him several times from here on.
Cormorant
Professional
Nope, in that scenario there would be more than 2,000 points between them year-end, even if Djoko qualified for the WTF final with only one win in the round robin.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Nadal was not mentally burned out, you ****s never stop with the excuses. This is just how good Nadal is on HC. USO2010 was a fluke.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Nadal needs a huge reversal of fortune between him and Novak. Notice how Novak got through the topsy turvy first set, that I think he should have lost, but he won. And how Nadal lost tight sets that he should have won.
This game is so mental, and Nadal has been going on mental walkabouts a little too much for comfort. Personally I think Novak has simply been the better player and I hope he gets the year end number one this year, he's played spectacular, even Nadal has no answer to THIS Novak.
This game is so mental, and Nadal has been going on mental walkabouts a little too much for comfort. Personally I think Novak has simply been the better player and I hope he gets the year end number one this year, he's played spectacular, even Nadal has no answer to THIS Novak.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You can call it whatever you want to call it but he still bit the trophy and it's in his slam count. No matter how much you hate it.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
You can call it whatever you want to call it but he still bit the trophy and it's in his slam count. No matter how much you hate it.
Of course it's in his slam count, he won, why state the obvious? I don't hate it, I'm just point it out for what it is. Same way Fed winning FO2009, sure he won it, he has a career slam, but we all know (and he does too) that it happened because Nadal was taken out.
Same way Nadal won FO2011 because Djokovic was taken out.
M
monfed
Guest
So how many points did ****** drop due to his early exit?
flyinghippos101
Legend
He lose 315 points I believe
Bud
Bionic Poster
Tonight's loss of Federer to Tsonga in Montreal round of 16 pretty much guarantees he won't be #1 at the end of 2011 .. for all of those who were upset that I didn't include him in the thread title
Federer's Race point standing:
3,400 points behind Nadal
6,000+ points behind Djokovic (most likely when he wins)
I don't think Federer has many more than 6,000 potential points left in his schedule for the remainder of 2011 (WTF potential points are not included). He'd have to win every event from Cincy until the WTF to even smell #1.
Federer's Race point standing:
3,400 points behind Nadal
6,000+ points behind Djokovic (most likely when he wins)
I don't think Federer has many more than 6,000 potential points left in his schedule for the remainder of 2011 (WTF potential points are not included). He'd have to win every event from Cincy until the WTF to even smell #1.
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N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Tonight's loss of Federer to Tsonga in Montreal round of 16 pretty much guarantees he won't be #1 at the end of 2011 .. for all of those who were upset that I didn't include him in the thread title
Only the most delusional would have ever been considering his chances of year end #1 before this week anyway. Then again there is alot of those in Federer Palace (the unofficial name of TW).
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Wow if Djokovic wins Canada now he has a 3000 lead over Nadal in the race which means Nadal has to win at least 3000 more points than the Serb to be the year-end-no-1. Since almost every tourny from now on till London is played on medium/fast hard courts, well, ....ehm....I just don't see it.
Bud
Bionic Poster
This early exit was pretty much the death knell for Rafa ending 2011 as #1. The only possible scenario of ending #1 is if Djoker is injured before the USO. IMO, Nadal won't make the USO final and I'd be surprised if he made the SF.
It will be Djokovic and some other person not named Nadal or Federer playing for the USO title this year.. perhaps Murray?
Nadal will once again end the year as the strong #2 player in the world.
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D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Novak 1
Rafa 2
Roger 3
Andy 4
That is how I see it at the end of the season.
Rafa 2
Roger 3
Andy 4
That is how I see it at the end of the season.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Is this race still happening?
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Zildite
Hall of Fame
Bud
Bionic Poster
A race for third maybe
Not many
Barring injury (or early exits from Cincy, the USO, Shanghai and Paris, it's nearly impossible for Nadal to pass him. Even then, Nadal would have to win or be the finalist in all of those tournaments as well.
Nadal at #2 also appears a foregone conclusion. The interesting finish at this point will be #3 and #4. It's possible Murray can still pass Federer.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Go Murray
Bud
Bionic Poster
Not yet .. still 1,000 points to go
http://live-tennis.eu/race
However, if Novak keeps winning, the bar will descend as remaining 2011 points become scarce.
Clarky21
Banned
Not yet .. still 1,000 points to go
http://live-tennis.eu/race
However, if Novak keeps winning, the bar will descend as remaining 2011 points become scarce.
Wow,that almost seems insurmountable considering Novak is winning everything. Hopefully Roger can pick up those points somewhere,but I don't know where it will be.
Bud
Bionic Poster
The bar will continue to decrease until the top 8 men qualify.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
The race is now a nice stroll in the park! LOL.
Novak deserves the number one, and I do hope he gets it. This has been a special year! Kudos to Rafa for putting up a fight also.
Novak deserves the number one, and I do hope he gets it. This has been a special year! Kudos to Rafa for putting up a fight also.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Bud
Bionic Poster
Homeboy Hotel
Hall of Fame
....
wat race
wat race
What race? Novak is number 1, Rafa number 2. There's no possible way that Rafa can gain number 1 in 2011. Do the math. Shoot ask Rafa, he'd say that Novak will end number 1 for year, and say that Novak deserves it, he's said that Novak has had an awesome year many times, and that he deserves it.
Spots 1-4 are already qualified, with the top 4, just go to the ATP site and look for the match.
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
It would be quite an ending to the year if Nadal manages to get the number one ranking, despite being outclassed comprehensively by Djokovic this year, including being stripped of four of his titles by him,.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
According to my calculations, it is mathematically impossible for Rafa to recover #1 this year even if he won everything and Djoko didn't win a single match. Rafa would have had to win USO to have a chance.
That is kind of fair. If a player with 3 slams and 5 masters didn't end the year as #1, I would seriously question the credibility of the ranking system...
Rafa should still care about reducing the gap to make it easier to recover #1 next year when Djoko won't be able to defend all his points.
That is kind of fair. If a player with 3 slams and 5 masters didn't end the year as #1, I would seriously question the credibility of the ranking system...
Rafa should still care about reducing the gap to make it easier to recover #1 next year when Djoko won't be able to defend all his points.
Clarky21
Banned
How do you know that he won't defend all of his points? He will come darn close considering there is nobody good enough to beat him.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I don't know for sure but I assume it will be difficult to have 2 seasons in a row without any early exit. I don't know any example of that happening.
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
The only way for Rafa to be #1 exactly one year from now is for him to score more points between now and then than Djokovic. Defending points may appear to have alot to do with in on a week to week basis, but it really doesn't.
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