Zildite
Hall of Fame
+1
The defending points stuff unnecessarily complicates things a lot of the time imo. It could hold positions for a while, but in the long run it doesn't seem to matter much.
Just get more ranking points than everyone else
Nadal / Djokovic and the Race to #1 !!!
- Thread starter Bud
- Start date
+1
The defending points stuff unnecessarily complicates things a lot of the time imo. It could hold positions for a while, but in the long run it doesn't seem to matter much.
Just get more ranking points than everyone else
Bud
Bionic Poster
+1
The defending points stuff unnecessarily complicates things a lot of the time imo. It could hold positions for a while, but in the long run it doesn't seem to matter much.
Just get more ranking points than everyone else
Correct... for YE ranking, week to week defense of points makes no difference.
However, rankings can change drastically during the year, based on who's defending what points
Nadal would have to win Shanghai, Paris, a couple 500's and the YEC
... and Djokovic would have to skip every event for the remainder of 2011
Not very likely
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sdont
Legend
Check you math again.
It's still possible for him to end the year #1 with his schedule if he goes undefeated until the end while Djokovic stays home.
But yeah, there is no margin for error, and I guess even an injured Nole can win a couple of matches to ensure his #1 place.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Nadal is not scheduled to play two 500 events so he would not end the year #1 even if he won everything left on his schedule and Djokovic didnt win another match.
Andres
G.O.A.T.
Davis Cup, perhaps? Mathematically speaking, I mean.
Both M1000s, undefeated WTF and winning both singles rubbers and the Cup? Would that be enough, mathematically speaking?
How many points are awarded for DC finals?
Fedalfan
Semi-Pro
Davis Cup does give 125 points if the player is from the winning team, and the said player has played 8 singles matches. I'm not sure if Nadal has played 6 already this year, but I feel pretty certain he hasn't.
Even if he did get the 125 points, he still would be 5 short (if he wins everything between now and WTF, and Djokovic sits out everything - both big asks, Rafa is still behind by 130 points).
So, in short, no...even a DC win wouldn't give him the necessary points
HOWEVER, if the above does happen, Rafa only needs to be in the SF at AO to get #1 rank back, coz he was only a QFist last year, while Djoko has to defend the title.
In fact, if Rafa narrrows down the difference to 1640 between now and year-end, then he just needs to be in the semis at AO to reclaim #1. Djoko would lose the ranking even if he won the title. And if my math is right, for Rafa to get #1 back by being a finalist at AO, he gets a further leverage of 1200 points, therefore if the points difference going into AO is less than 2840, then Rafa gets #1.
Although this is all speculation for now. Rafa is 4100 points behind Djoko right now, so a lot will need to go right for him and a lot will need to go wrong for Djoko for this to happen. But essentially, IF it were to happen, Rafa can only get the #1 ranking in Jan 2012.
sdont
Legend
Apparently, you don't know how DC ranking points work. Nadal already has 170 DC points this year and can win 150 more points if he wins 2 live rubbers in the final.
Even if Nadal doesn't play the DC final, if he wins all the tournaments he's scheduled to participate (including WTF undefeated), he would end the year with 13,155 points. Right now Djokovic is at 13,070 points in 2011.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Nadal is over 4200 points behind Djokovic in the ATP Race points. The two Masters, going undefeated at the WTF, a 500 title, and 150 points from 2 Davis Cup wins, would still only total 4150 points and not be enough.
Fedalfan
Semi-Pro
You're right about the first part. I was completely misreading how it works, and yes Nadal can get those points.
Fedalfan
Semi-Pro
But you have to remember that Djokovic is also defending some points, and if he doesn't play, he'll drop those.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
I was talking about the Race points, which means points of just this year.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I could care less if Nadal ends up finishing #1. He knows damn well he's the inferior player and is not at all the true #1 regardless of what the rankings points state. Djokovic who whipped his ass at Wimbledon, US Open, Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Rome is the rightful #1 even if Djokovic doesn't play another match for the rest of this season.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Gotta say I agree with this.
But if Nadal does it, how much will be left in the tank for the start of next year. He has already played a lot of matches, and if he plays and wins everything else from now until end of November, early December, he might be too exhausted come slam time in AO.
TopFH
Hall of Fame
Herios
Rookie
All this talk of Nadal can still finish # 1 is rather non-sense. This is usually the part of the seson when he performs the worst. There is a reason why he never won in Shanghai, Paris or YEC, so to believe he goes undefeated in all 3 of them would be more surprising than if I was going to get the jackpot at the Casino. Plus Djokovic will be back at least starting with Basel. So the race is finito. Period. Next season!
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Sorry but Federer fans disagree, just ask them when Nadal was doing the same to Federer.
Bud
Bionic Poster
We're just speculating about a best case scenario. Nobody thinks it will happen
It would be comical though if a guy who won 1 major and a MS1000 title passed a guy who won 3 majors and 5 MS1000 titles
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
We're just speculating about a best case scenario. Nobody thinks it will happen
It would be comical though if a guy who won 1 major and a MS1000 title passed a guy who won 3 majors and 5 MS1000 titles
Not just that. It would be especially comical that the guy who won 1 major and a masters title overtakes the guy who beat him 6 straight times in 6 straight finals including 2 majors and 4 masters.:lol:
It would be truly embarrassing for the ATP and just how shoddy their points/ranking system is.
Andres
G.O.A.T.
Actually, if that's the best case scenario, we'd be talking about a guy who won:We're just speculating about a best case scenario. Nobody thinks it will happen
It would be comical though if a guy who won 1 major and a MS1000 title passed a guy who won 3 majors and 5 MS1000 titles
3 majors and 5 M1000 titles with one M1000 runner-up
versus
1 major, two majors runner-ups, 3 M1000, 4 M1000 runner-ups, the WTF and the Davis Cup.
Is not that farfetch'd. If Nadal wins everything in sight from now on and Novak stays at home, I think both seasons would be quite close in achievements, even with the obvious Slam differences.
Ranking points cannot be argued.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
You must be joking. A year with 3 seasons, 5 M1000 titles and one M1000 runner up is WAY better than a year with 1 major, two major runner ups, 3 M1000, 4 M1000 runner ups, the WTF and the Davis Cup. Even as a Nadal fan I can honestly say Nadal would overtake Wozniacki as the most ridiculed #1 in tennis history if by some miracle he ended the year #1 this year over Djokovic considering what has already taken place (despite that Nadals year would already be a #1 worthy year in many years past, but not even close to one this year). Ranking points can easily be ignored, they have become nothing more than the laughing stock of the sport lately, especialy on the WTA.
vernonbc
Legend
Funny, the Jokovic fans weren't saying that during Wimbledon when Jokovic took over the #1 spot. If Rafa had won that, he would have been the current holder of 3 slam titles (US, French and W) and Novak only 1 but the ranking system was just fine in their eyes at that time. What a bunch of hypocrits. Thank goodness Rafa will get the #1 back shortly into 2012 and all will be right with the tennis world again.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Why would all be right in the world? If anything Novak has really shaken things up and created more buzz. Now others will be forced to play even better to keep to the standard.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
Look, I'm all for optimism. But I still cannot agree with statements such as above. Especially given that theoretically one could argue that Nadal would play worse next year as he'll be older and would have played 700+ matches..
Of course, Nadal might come back strong next year, and he's overcame tougher obstacles in 2009 after coming back from injury and personal problems. However, as things stand, I don't see ANY INDICATION whatsoever that suggest that Nadal WILL return to #1 next year.
Sure it could happen (stranger things have happened before), but if you're claiming this will definitely happen, you need to back this up with a SOLID argument. And right now there is NONE..
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I have no clue what the heck you're blabbering about.:lol: All I know is that at the end of this year, Djokovic should finish #1 because he is far and away the best player in the world.
CDestroyer
Professional
Well Bud I guess you havent seen the point count lately.
Djokovic 14,720
Buttpicker 10,620
Plus Djokovic is 6-0 against the cheater this year.
No chance Nadal even gets within 2,000 points of Novak.
Djokovic 14,720
Buttpicker 10,620
Plus Djokovic is 6-0 against the cheater this year.
No chance Nadal even gets within 2,000 points of Novak.
flyinghippos101
Legend
It's not like it can't happen. Djokovic had a LOT of tournament wins to defend. If he slips up, Rafa is the next guy in line to step in for the win. Unless Fed or Murray picks up their level next year, Rafa's chances at #1 are decent.
vernonbc
Legend
Rafa's chances are more than decent. By missing Beijing/Tokyo Novak is going to carry two zeroes for 500 tourneys plus he's never going to defend all his points next year. Rafa will gain points this month and will almost surely gain big points at the AO. The current 4000 point spread will disappear in a hurry.
Fedalfan
Semi-Pro
Well..Rafa won't gain anything at Tokyo; he's defending the title. He did get knocked out of Shanghai early, so there's some opportunity there.
CDestroyer
Professional
Correct plus Nadal wont gain much next year either because he made it to many finals this year and lets face it he won't be winning titles over Novak next year either.
So both have to do well next year in order to retain their points.
brickner_damage
Banned
Still, making the quarter-final of Australia and finals of everything else is a lot easier than winning every event. Monte Carlo is big for Nadal, must win. Barcelona, Djokovic will not play. So its really only one event for Nadal to worry about before the French.
Andres
G.O.A.T.
They are already using YTD ranking points. Whatever he does at Tokyo, he wins it. He may not win any extra Entry points, but that's for seeding.
If he wins Tokyo, the gap between them will be 500 points smaller.
Race points
#1 Novak Djokovic - 13,295
#2 Rafael Nadal - 9,110 (will be 9,610 if he wins Tokyo)
Entry points:
1 Djokovic, Novak (SRB) 14,720
2 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 10,575
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Clarky21
Banned
There you go with that eternal optimism again. This comment is more wishful thinking than anything. The likelyhood of that happening is slim and none.
CDestroyer
Professional
Thats all the male Nadal lovers have to cling on to. Nothing else.
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brickner_damage
Banned
What is the likelihood of Nobak winning 43 in a row next year?
Clarky21
Banned
I wouldn't doubt it considering the only guy who can trouble him is 30,and nearing retirement. Besides Roger he has no competition.
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Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Why does he need to? He can still sustain his ranking by making deep runs and winning a couple of Slams and a couple of Masters. I think you're forgetting that Nadal himself just to get to #1 has to defend 5 Masters finals, a Slam and 2 Slam finals next year. No easy pickings for anybody. Although would be great if Del Potro finally got his act together and made a charge next year.
brickner_damage
Banned
Nadal is pretty good at making clay finals, wouldn't ya say?
The 2 hardcourt finals are in Nadal's favor too. Australian Open is quarter-final.
French Open, no comment.
Wimbledon, has not missed a final since losing early 2005!
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Nadal is pretty good at making clay finals, wouldn't ya say?
The 2 hardcourt finals are in Nadal's favor too. Australian Open is quarter-final.
French Open, no comment.
Wimbledon, has not missed a final since losing early 2005!
Djokovic can make finals with his B level game. Nadal has to meet him in those finals to take back the #1 ranking. Should be fun.
brickner_damage
Banned
The only concern for Nobak is his frailty, the back in particular. Like he has right now, missing this week and probably Shanghai too. One injury early next year and his ranking is gone..
Clarky21
Banned
Cvac is not really injured. He is simply resting up and avoiding the travel to China in order to win the WTF,as if he didn't already have it locked up anyway. People who are so injured that they have supposedly been unable to practice for the last 15 days,do not go out and play a soccer match only 6 days after they acted as if they were nearly dying on court. He's fine now,and will be fine next year as well.
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Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic retired in the 2006 French Open with a back injury.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Unless Nadal enters Basel at the last minute or something the #1 race is officialy over (it is a joke and a testement to foolish ranking system that it wasnt well over after the U.S Open anyway).
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
According to my calculations, it was pretty much over after USO. The notion that Rafa would win every single match of every single tournament after USO this year (and Djoko none) was so extraordinarily unrealistic that it didn't deserve any consideration.
So, in the real world, the USO sealed it.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
What downward spiral has Nadal had? He's won the French Open, Monte Carlo and Barcelona, and been runner-up at the US Open, Wimbledon, Tokyo, Indian Wells, Miami, Rome and Madrid.
Hood_Man
G.O.A.T.
I've had a look at the points, and if I'm working it out right there's a slim chance that Murray could overtake Nadal and end the year at world #2.
Nadal would have to lose his first or second match in Paris and then lose every Round Robin match at the WTF to end the year with 9590 points, while Murray goes unbeaten for the rest of the year to end with 9700, but I guess the slim possibility is there.
It's the Davis Cup points that always confused me with these things though, so I might still be wrong.
Nadal would have to lose his first or second match in Paris and then lose every Round Robin match at the WTF to end the year with 9590 points, while Murray goes unbeaten for the rest of the year to end with 9700, but I guess the slim possibility is there.
It's the Davis Cup points that always confused me with these things though, so I might still be wrong.
sdont
Legend
You're right. Murray can end the year with 9700 if he wins Paris and the WTF unbeated. Nadal is currently at 9545 for 2011.
About DC, Nadal will add 75 points to his total for each win in a live rubber. Davis Cup points drop 52 weeks after they are earned like any other points, what's confusing is that they are counted as one single tournament.
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cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
What downward spiral? Have you not been watching Nadal the past 6 months? He has played like crap. Nadal won 3 slams in 2010 so 2011 has been a disappointing year for him compared to last year's standard. Djokovic has cleaned his clock in 6 big finals this year. Did Djokovic or anybody else do that in 2010?
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