random guy
Professional
Federer's downfall started way before Wimbledon... it's been slow but he's been consistently going downhill for a year and a half now
Roger is playing like crap
- Thread starter coloskier
- Start date
Federer's downfall started way before Wimbledon... it's been slow but he's been consistently going downhill for a year and a half now
musicalmedic81
Semi-Pro
I hate to say this as a Federer fan, but it seems like Federer may be headed down the same road that Agassi was in 1997 when he hit age 27. The good thing is, Agassi was able to start from scratch and come back better than ever. If Federer is a true champion, and I believe he is, I look for Roger to spend 2009 trying to build his confidence again and then resurge in 2010, 11, 12 with guns blazing for the final chapter of his legendary career. Wouldnt that be nuts if Federer had to go back and play challengers like Agassi did?
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vbranis
Professional
Yeah, but he didn't even lose a set on the way to the Wimbledon final. He was certainly playing better than this!
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
how were the light levels? Could Fed see properly?
look on the bright side, he can still win the doubles!
look on the bright side, he can still win the doubles!
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Still, the Wimbledon final was the last blow to his confidence.
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
The funny thing is that i dont think this is a case of burned out.I think this is a case in which he has somewhat gotten lazy in his work ethic.His serve has really been somewhat lethargic.
random guy
Professional
Yeah, but we have seen this match a lot of times recently (in different shades) Fish, Murray, Stepanek, Nadal on Hamburg and FO. Not only losing but losing in a very disappointing way.
random guy
Professional
Agreed... nails on the coffin.
That backhand of his looks so weak, but he can put it anywhere. You could tell his strategy. Just get everything back deep to the corners, and almost always crosscourt. Fed was the only one trying to hit down the line, and he was so late on his forehands that he was hitting way wide.
I think he played much worse against Fish. He played a good first set today but for some reason he is too inconsistent this year. You can see two different Federers in the same match.
Don Felder
Semi-Pro
Same match? Hell, try same set... there wre flashes of brilliance in that 3rd set even, like the 20 shot rally with the big FH down the line pass that eventually earned him the break back at 3-3 I think it was?
The backhand looks weak but when he chooses to go for it, it has lots of pace and flat as a pancake, and must be really a surprise after 4-5 off pace balls. Hitting so flat must be weird for other pros with the heavy topspin most guys are hitting.
sillymonkey
Hall of Fame
That would be a loss @ the US Open.
What really surprised me after the 1st set was how many forehands he was missing. He didn´t control his forehand and he was overhitting and shanking a lot. I only had that feeling when he played Nadal on clay but it´s already happening too many times this year. I think he puts a lot of pressure on himself and wants to finish points quickly especially in tight moments of the match.
He always tries to overpower his opponent. That´s what made him the player he is but maybe he should look for different things to win at this point. His slice backhand is pretty good and bothers his opponents. He doesn´t use it a lot. He´s also lost some footwork so he is not well positioned sometimes which with his attacking style means more unforced errors.
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marc45
G.O.A.T.
is a win at the olympics bigger/better than a win at ciny or toronto? i'm being serious here, literally,.....the field at bejing will actually be less impressive, no? (as rafa might say)....not picking on your post don....i quite enjoyed it, not to mention your guitar playing (and recent book), just that particular thought about bejing....as a matter of fact, what do folks think is more impressive...a davis cup championship (particularly one in which you contributed to heavily in the final and on the year) or an olympic gold medal?....it is a one week best of three tourney, no?, yes?
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Hey Don Felder, excellent post although i dont know if he has gotten a step slower.I thought his footwork was terrible after the first set tonight!!!!
I do think that the u.s open will be a big stage for him.
I do think that the u.s open will be a big stage for him.
geesechops
Semi-Pro
Very shocking loss, but Toronto/Montreal and Cincy are the slowest hard courts on the tour. Fed and Nadal struggle, the two-handed counter punchers and big hitters do well there normally.
Don Felder
Semi-Pro
Well I'm saying Olympics because Fed recently went on record as saying a gold means more than a US Open trophy. Perplexing statement, but it obviously means a lot to him after the Berdych disappointment in 04. I'd rather see him win a Masters myself, but the press he'd get for gold medaling in Beijing might be just the shot in the arm he needs.
And yea, Don's guitar playing and book were excellent
. Hello to a fellow Ohioan from a Clevelander.Thanks for the compliment also Ace of Hearts.
sillymonkey
Hall of Fame
One thing's for sure, everyone in Fed's half of the draw is stoked.
IvanAndreevich
Legend
Why the hell would Nadal struggle? He's won this in '05.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
hey don, thanks for responding, and definitely a hello from neo.....firstly, let me apologize...the men's finals are best of five (but still?)......and i do know bejing is important to fed..... i just wonder, deep down, more important than a major???!!....historically, despite the higher profile of olympic tennis, how really can/should we view an event that takes place one week every four years?....that's why i brought up davis cup, which, of course is probably too ever-presentWell I'm saying Olympics because Fed recently went on record as saying a gold means more than a US Open trophy. Perplexing statement, but it obviously means a lot to him after the Berdych disappointment in 04. I'd rather see him win a Masters myself, but the press he'd get for gold medaling in Beijing might be just the shot in the arm he needs.
And yea, Don's guitar playing and book were excellent
Thanks for the compliment also Ace of Hearts.
He played 5 tournaments on hardcourts this year and his best result is a semifinal. He didn´t even reach a final. With all due respect that´s not the problem.
Don Felder
Semi-Pro
Yeah, I don't know. I'm just going by what Federer says. Me? I'd rather see him take the USO, but who knows what he's really thinking and what's motivating him when he says he wants Olympic gold more than USOpen hardware. Hope that answers your question.
jmsx521
Hall of Fame
This match was with one of the most bad calls I've ever seen. They were many, but they were close calls, and that's why the umpire didn't overrule many of them. I have no doubt that the bad line-calling is what started Federer's fragility. I'd like to read his post-match conference for confirmation. How many times they both called for challenges, and how many times both were right!? They both lost confidence in the officiating of the match. I watched the match and both players were aggravated about it... but while Simon's game didn't get affected from the aggravation, Federer's game did.
grizzly4life
Professional
it's completely different courts than 2005....... but i don't claim to know anything about these courts
Yes, that is the 1st time I have seen Fed get riled by a bad call in quite some time.
Federer definitely wasted 2 challenges in the 3rd set. Those 2 challenges made no sense, weren´t even close. He still had one challege on that point but decided not to use it. I think he can´t blame the umpire when he took so many wrong decisions.
random guy
Professional
I heard that. That was funny. What wasn't funny was that he let a million bad calls fly through his nose.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
How can you say it's his racquet?
He went on his incredible run over the past 5 years using the same size racquet and before that he used an even smaller racquet. It's NOT the racquet. It's his feet. He's not moving nearly as well as he used to. That's why he's a step late getting to his forehands and thus shanking them. It would appear he's not yet fully recovered from his bout with mono. He needs to build his footwork and strength back up to where it was before his illness.
kobe3pointer
Semi-Pro
Wow, I just saw the highlights on espnnews... thats really sad... COME ON FEDERER!!!!
and what channel was the match on? tennis channel?
and what channel was the match on? tennis channel?
superman1
Legend
The mono is no longer an excuse. That definitely affected him at the Australian Open and the early part of the year, no question. Puts an asterisk next to Djokovic's win. But he was perfectly fit at Wimbledon, he looked like he could go another 5 hours.
He's just having a slump, happens to all the greats. I expect him to get out of it, but if he doesn't then it'll be the biggest shock in tennis history.
He's just having a slump, happens to all the greats. I expect him to get out of it, but if he doesn't then it'll be the biggest shock in tennis history.
A
AprilFool
Guest
How can you say it's his racquet?
The lack of movement was really visible at the AO loss. And again at Indian Wells to Fish. There is something wrong and it's got nothing to do with aging.
oberyn
Professional
I don't think we'll ever know if Federer's poor (by his standards) year to date has been, on balance, more the result of physical or mental struggles. I think it's clearly a combination of both.
Age (Fed's turning 27 and has been a pro for 10 years), mono, losses leading to a loss of confidence on Federer's part and a newfound sense of belief on the part of his opponents.
Age (Fed's turning 27 and has been a pro for 10 years), mono, losses leading to a loss of confidence on Federer's part and a newfound sense of belief on the part of his opponents.
geesechops
Semi-Pro
I'm not saying that is the only problem. I just think when he gets on a faster court like the US Open or Shanghai his game of being a shot maker takes full form. Of course all of that means nothing because if he can't move forget about it, especially the BH.
Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
Simon is playing great, coming off a tournament win a few days ago.
Federer on the other hand, first tournament back from the toughst loss of his career and first match on hardcourt for months.
Dont read so much into this and cut him some slack people.
Fed will have his act together by the Olympics and the US Open (most likely winning it.) Thats what matters.
Federer on the other hand, first tournament back from the toughst loss of his career and first match on hardcourt for months.
Dont read so much into this and cut him some slack people.
Fed will have his act together by the Olympics and the US Open (most likely winning it.) Thats what matters.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I still don't think it's time to push the Fed panic button quite yet (at least the big one).
1. Clearly, his era of dominance is over. 2004-2006 was amazing, but he couldn't go on like this forever. On this point, I don't understand why people get so down on him. That level is impossible to maintain forever. So, he's slightly past his prime, doesn't mean he can't win Slams.
2. There is precedent for this sort of down phase, namely, nearly every player who has played the game. Seriously, someone mentioned Sampras 2000-2002 slump. Think of how Agassi went so far down and came back. It happens to every top player. But, while I have no doubt that Fed will play great tennis again, and while I personally believe he will win another Slam, there is precedent for champions going through slumps and playing well again, but not winning a Slam. I never would have thought that after his dominant 1984 and and losing to Lendl in the 1985 USO final, that McEnroe would never win another Slam. He played great again, made the semis of Wimbledon as late as 1992 against a new generation of players. But, never lifted the trophy again.
3. While I think he'll rise again, it will, obviously be tough. Guys are always getting better, and loses like Simon give a lot of other guys confidence.
4. This is what really makes this situation a mystery - Fed's confidence. Confidence is an intangible - hard to get a handle on, hard to understand how it ebbs and flows. Fed still has his physical gifts, his great shots, but I'm wondering about his confidence. Yeah, the last few months have probably hurt his confidence, but it will be ineresting to see how or if he'll fully get it back. This is all mental now. And not only confidence, put patience and desire. He seems to look so annoyed now.
5. I'll judge him by Slams now. He's earned it. These losses don't matter to me in the larger sense, or to his legacy. He can lose in Canada and lose first round in Cincinatti and it won't matter. How he performs at the USO is what ultimately matters, and in Slams generally. Of course these losses matter in the smaller sense of how they affect him mentally. But from a "greatness" perspective, I don't think these losses matter than much. I actually think he should just focus on Slams like Lendl did later in his career.
1. Clearly, his era of dominance is over. 2004-2006 was amazing, but he couldn't go on like this forever. On this point, I don't understand why people get so down on him. That level is impossible to maintain forever. So, he's slightly past his prime, doesn't mean he can't win Slams.
2. There is precedent for this sort of down phase, namely, nearly every player who has played the game. Seriously, someone mentioned Sampras 2000-2002 slump. Think of how Agassi went so far down and came back. It happens to every top player. But, while I have no doubt that Fed will play great tennis again, and while I personally believe he will win another Slam, there is precedent for champions going through slumps and playing well again, but not winning a Slam. I never would have thought that after his dominant 1984 and and losing to Lendl in the 1985 USO final, that McEnroe would never win another Slam. He played great again, made the semis of Wimbledon as late as 1992 against a new generation of players. But, never lifted the trophy again.
3. While I think he'll rise again, it will, obviously be tough. Guys are always getting better, and loses like Simon give a lot of other guys confidence.
4. This is what really makes this situation a mystery - Fed's confidence. Confidence is an intangible - hard to get a handle on, hard to understand how it ebbs and flows. Fed still has his physical gifts, his great shots, but I'm wondering about his confidence. Yeah, the last few months have probably hurt his confidence, but it will be ineresting to see how or if he'll fully get it back. This is all mental now. And not only confidence, put patience and desire. He seems to look so annoyed now.
5. I'll judge him by Slams now. He's earned it. These losses don't matter to me in the larger sense, or to his legacy. He can lose in Canada and lose first round in Cincinatti and it won't matter. How he performs at the USO is what ultimately matters, and in Slams generally. Of course these losses matter in the smaller sense of how they affect him mentally. But from a "greatness" perspective, I don't think these losses matter than much. I actually think he should just focus on Slams like Lendl did later in his career.
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
What Federer should do is just ignore everybody's opinion, and just go out and play tennis, period.
If he needs to take one advice is to take it from me, simplify the forehand like before or like Nadal. If you examine closely, he has at least 3 varieties/paces in his FH, cause his FH to break down in crucial moments lately. :evil:
If he needs to take one advice is to take it from me, simplify the forehand like before or like Nadal. If you examine closely, he has at least 3 varieties/paces in his FH, cause his FH to break down in crucial moments lately. :evil:
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
This is an excellent post. And so true. I can't believe the "fans" who are downing him over a few losses. Wouldn't want 'em on my side. If you're a true fan you should be with your person through thick and thin, otherwise you're a groupie!
sheq
Professional
ı totally agree with you.. ı watched all the match and couldnt believe that roger is losing his confidence
he is playing as he played in 2001 and 2002..nadal is in his mind thats for sure..if this match was played last year in the same circumstances the result would be like 6-2 6-4..
maybe he should lose his no 1 position and even us open title and all things that he own and then maybe he will be free and fresh..
his backhand is really poor right now but it wasnt before..
at the net he is not as deadly as he was before..
his forehand is not the best on the tour as it was..
and he is missing too many service both on the first and second..
but its clear that the problem is mentally..ı remember his face while his reing was lasting he was so cold-blooded and calm in different the circumstances..
but now his face reflect on his anxiety and worry...
and all the negative things on his game that ı mentioned are all about his head
we lost the roger of 2004-5-6-7 and we are missing him..
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
How about a little perspective concerning Roger's 2008?
1. I lost in the semis to Djokovic breaking my streak of getting to so many consecutive finals. In that loss I also had to bear the burden of Novak's words ringing true, that I am no longer invincible. The worst part was he proved it by taking me down himself.
2. So, I let it go and excused my loss at the AO, and poured myself into my preparation for the French Open. After all, I had a few matches with Nadal where I was up a couple of breaks giving me hope for the French for the first time. In fact, so much hope that I actually shared my glee with the press only to see it backfire in my face as I received my most embarrassing loss in a grand slam in my career. That's a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
3. Oh well. At least I have grass. I put all my eggs in a basket and headed off to England. At least there, I will have a reprieve. But it was not to be. The same fellow who routed me in the French was there waiting to take that crown too. Then, after the most hurtful loss of my career, those who had backed now called for my abdication to the crown. Now the media and the pundits are screaming the same words that the young buck said months earlier. The king is dead, long live the king!
4. :::Sigh::: At least there's the hardcourts. The jerk who took my crown has knee problems and probably won't make it to the finals to meet me, and the other one, the town crier, I'm leading in our h2h. Finally, I will be able to get on firm footing again.
5. Now come the hardcourts, where I have shined for four straight years. A little practice and I should quickly get back in the swing of things (no pun intended).
(Looking at the draw sheet) Say, isn't this the guy who's been tearing up the USO Series while my nemesis and I were resting? What does it say here? He beat Haas, Tursunov, and others last week. Probably riding a wave of confidence, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem...
But what happens?
He loses, and many of the fans who loved him so dearly now are kicking his teeth in because he let them down! Never mind his quest for history, or suffering his worst loss, or the tremendous pressure he's under to maintain such lofty standards. No, it's all about what they want. They want me to be perfect and now that I'm not...
Well, they have no further use for me. They have bought tickets for the next available bandwagon. Goodbye, Roger, ye of the horrible backhand and shanks. Off with your head for allowing this lull in your glorious career. We have no further use for you. We only back winners, do you hear? Losers have no place with us!
Something to think about.
A fan (friend) is with you through and thin, they don't bail because things aren't going right!
1. I lost in the semis to Djokovic breaking my streak of getting to so many consecutive finals. In that loss I also had to bear the burden of Novak's words ringing true, that I am no longer invincible. The worst part was he proved it by taking me down himself.
2. So, I let it go and excused my loss at the AO, and poured myself into my preparation for the French Open. After all, I had a few matches with Nadal where I was up a couple of breaks giving me hope for the French for the first time. In fact, so much hope that I actually shared my glee with the press only to see it backfire in my face as I received my most embarrassing loss in a grand slam in my career. That's a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
3. Oh well. At least I have grass. I put all my eggs in a basket and headed off to England. At least there, I will have a reprieve. But it was not to be. The same fellow who routed me in the French was there waiting to take that crown too. Then, after the most hurtful loss of my career, those who had backed now called for my abdication to the crown. Now the media and the pundits are screaming the same words that the young buck said months earlier. The king is dead, long live the king!
4. :::Sigh::: At least there's the hardcourts. The jerk who took my crown has knee problems and probably won't make it to the finals to meet me, and the other one, the town crier, I'm leading in our h2h. Finally, I will be able to get on firm footing again.
5. Now come the hardcourts, where I have shined for four straight years. A little practice and I should quickly get back in the swing of things (no pun intended).
(Looking at the draw sheet) Say, isn't this the guy who's been tearing up the USO Series while my nemesis and I were resting? What does it say here? He beat Haas, Tursunov, and others last week. Probably riding a wave of confidence, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem...
But what happens?
He loses, and many of the fans who loved him so dearly now are kicking his teeth in because he let them down! Never mind his quest for history, or suffering his worst loss, or the tremendous pressure he's under to maintain such lofty standards. No, it's all about what they want. They want me to be perfect and now that I'm not...
Well, they have no further use for me. They have bought tickets for the next available bandwagon. Goodbye, Roger, ye of the horrible backhand and shanks. Off with your head for allowing this lull in your glorious career. We have no further use for you. We only back winners, do you hear? Losers have no place with us!
Something to think about.
A fan (friend) is with you through and thin, they don't bail because things aren't going right!
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
It's not a typo. It's from an actual transcribed interview. I wish I had the time to go through all the "mono" archives (one day I will). It gets worse than this. It's actually pretty funny. At one point he didn't even want to discuss the "mono" anymore.
ksbh
Banned
MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
Legend
Those people are not fans, as you can see the true colors are coming out. Apparently it was paradise for them when he was racking up those wins, but not he's losing more than he used to, a lot of his “fans" don't know how to deal with it. That's separating and having a life of tennis comes into play, but don't ask me because I walk around with an iPhone posting on a message board.
Here is an example: Nalbandian was the next best thing last year because of his two tournament wins last year, the best they will get from him by the way. The Bandwagon was full and you needed a ticket to just look in at his worshippers. Now, where are they?
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MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
Legend
Zagor,
Where the hell have you been?
The place have been really quite without a consistent level of humility and common sense. I understand we have lives, it's good to see you back..
Where the hell have you been?
The place have been really quite without a consistent level of humility and common sense. I understand we have lives, it's good to see you back..
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