Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"

[Top Jimmy]

Have any of you played on a really slow hard court? We have some in town and it's infuriating. Serves that are either aces or service winners at every other court, check up and allow almost anyone to get it back. Backhand's down the line winners all come back. It's a pushers paradise.

When I rarely play on clay i'm mentally ready for balls coming back but these slow hard courts are actually worse.

Wimbledon did need to be slowed down a bit but there should not be 40 shot rallies at Wimbledon either.

 

[mandy01]

Nadal adapts to everything ....

..and yet, he gets his derriere handed to him indoors, and till Cincy was fast, there too.

He has been called a better volleyer than Federer by none other than John McEnroe and Pat Cash.

Roger Federer has been called GOAT by the very same players. Good to know you agree.

Nadal would change his style and beat Federer on any surface.....

That explains why he attacks the net more than Federer. Oh wait...:-?

And he plays differently on hard, grass, clay......fed plays the same always.

Federer plays the same because you attempt to watch him out of Nadal's derriere. Bad idea. Restricted view.

 

[granddog29]

..and yet, he gets his derriere handed to him indoors

1. Indoors is not a surface.

2. The WTF isnt even fast these days, so you Nadal haters who desperately stick to your "Nadal is a useless mug on all fast courts" will have to come up with a new way of trying to prove this failed thesis. Nadal won the Madrid Masters in 2005 and the Dubai event over Federer in the final back in 2006, on WAY WAY faster surfaces than the WTF is ever played on today.

Roger Federer has been called GOAT by the very same players. Good to know you agree.

and those same players now say they no longer consider Federer the GOAT and atleast one of them (McEnroe) now claims Nadal is. Good to know you agree.

 

[Bobby Jr]

...Wonder how many Wimbledon crowns Federer would have won against the Isners, Karlovics, Raonics, K Andersons, Roddicks, etc if the grass courts were super fast like in the 90s. The 90s courts were so much favoring the big servers. Wimbledon used to be a serve contest. The good old days *sigh*

As Agassi showed in 1992, because all serves are heavily advantaged on quick grass courts it also means players with really good returns have a massive advantage also because they gain more there relatively.

Federer is a miles, miles better returner than Isner, Karlovic, Raonic, Anderson and Roddick but his serve would be all-but as effective as theirs on quick courts. I'd say versus players like that the natural order would remain more often than not. It's the guys having blinder days like Rosol etc who would pose a bigger threat earlier on in the tournament - as many have noted happened more in faster court eras.

 

[jg153040]

LMAO @ Federer benefiting from the roof.

Not like he won 5 straight wimbledons without a roof. :roll: and Wimbledon is not an indoor tournament now...They only close it if it rains....big difference.

Not only that, but didn't he win his 16 majors without a roof? What is TDK smoking?

 

[jg153040]

The point is that change is part of the game and part of tennis .....you don't see Nadal fans complaining .

You didn't see Connors complaining when he had to face Borg on clay because the US open changed surfaces.

In any event I believe ....not sure but I believe that Federer won all his 17 slams on a slower surface . The slower surface has helped Federer .....

Fed faced Philopusis, Roddick , Joker , Berdych , Delpotoro who would have been aided more by a faster surface .

In fact I'm not so sure Nadal would be hurt by a faster surface as he hits blazing winners with the highest RPM in history ....he beat Ivo and Roddick on fast grass.

Well, I don't know about other greats complaining about surfaces, but Nadal and Toni complained a lot. Saying there should be more clay and less hard courts.

Slower surfaces favour Nadal's game and yet they still complain. Nadal also complains about the ranking system not favoring him because of injuries.

They also complain about how Djokovic and Federer are all lucky to be healthy and Nadal is unlucky.

I agree with you, that there shouldn't be any excuses though. Conditions are what they are. They are the same for everyone. So, people should stop making excuses for Nadals success.

I just find it funny you saying that people shouldn't complain about conditions where Nadal and Toni are famous about complaining the most.

 

[jg153040]

Actually he said that last year, after losing to Federer in the Dubai final (which Murray described it as one of the really few fast surfaces left).

As for the Federer discussion. Well, he started winning slams when the courts STARTED to become progressively slow. So yeah, in some way I think he also took advantage of it back in the day. They weren't as fast as the 90s, but they weren't as ridiculous slow as nowadays.
We will never know how Federer would have performed in the ultra fast courts from the 80s/90s, probably not THAT good. But we do know that Rafa's performance would have been REALLY poor in those conditions.

In short words, put Roger and Rafa in the 80s/90s, and Roger would be winning much more than Rafa. BUT not as much as he won since 2003.

This is just an assumption that Rafa would have done worse in the 90s. How do you know? He would be completely different player? Maybe his baseline game would be worse, but his serve and net skills much better.

How do you know he wouldn't be able to do what Borg did? Play serve and volley on grass and baseline on clay?

We can't just transport players into the past with the mindset of todays game.

The same is reversed saying Sampras would do badly today on slower conditions. His game would be different. Champions are winning mostly because of talent and mindset and work ethic and solving problems and adapting to challenges.

So, there is no point in making any assumptions.

 

[jg153040]

Then why did they change it?

The reason they changed it is because viewership was down and tennis was more boring. They changed to blue as well because it looked better on TV and that's why they want to change to blue for clay as well . If grass could be blue they would do that as well .

So it's all a out entertainment . If fast courts with all this super duper technogy and big oafs were more exciting then the courts would in fact be faster because there would be more viewers and more excitement .

But the opposite is true.....we have had the 2007 wimby the 2008 wimby , the Nadal joker AO and the Nadal joker FO....

And all in a short span of time compared to the many years of fast courts .

The fact is that tennis has never been more exciting .

The slow courts is the equalizer for the increase in technological equipment and bigger players . It balances out .

I didn't even get to how much more dominant Serena would be ......OMG !!!!

No no no ....either go back to gut strings or wood or slow down the courts . You cannot have it all.

Even Mcenroe a great serve and volleyer would propose to go back to wood rather than slow the courts to balance the increase in power of today's game.

Something had to be done to balance it out .

There's no serve and volley but that died as proven by Hewitt and Safin who dismantled Sampras .

No the only answer is to reduce the technology or slow down the courts . You can't have both.

They changed the speed to give Feds competition a chance. I'm glad they did. That's why he just has 17 majors. Otherwise he has 24 majors and 3 CYGS and who wants to see that?

I'm glad they changed it. I love Fed, but everybody needs a challenge to make it fun.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Have any of you played on a really slow hard court? We have some in town and it's infuriating. Serves that are either aces or service winners at every other court, check up and allow almost anyone to get it back...

Sure have. A club I played at was a practice venue in the weeks prior to the Aussie Open and they had their courts redone in exactly the same specs as the tournament. In the first year to 18 months they were so slow it was insane - just like you describe it. I had never got to so many balls in my life and if you played at night it even felt like you were using special slow balls or something.

Without being repainted/surfaced the roughness eventually wears down a bit and they speed up quite noticeably. They play nicer now for how I like to play. The one positive aspect to them being slow initially was I credit them with forcing me to develop a better second serve.

 

[The Dark Knight]

They changed the speed to give Feds competition a chance. I'm glad they did. That's why he just has 17 majors. Otherwise he has 24 majors and 3 CYGS and who wants to see that?

I'm glad they changed it. I love Fed, but everybody needs a challenge to make it fun.

Lets talk about the elephant in the room.......

This thread is all about Federer winning and somehow trying to prove that if the courts were faster that Federer would win more and Nadal wouldn't have a chance.

It's not about the integrity of tennis and bringing back serve and volley.....which was dead before Federer.

Sampras was basically the last of the serve and volleyers. After his retirement we had Roddick and Ferrero as the number one players in the world . Players like Hewitt and Safin took over.

So what happened ? It was Luxilon that changed everything .

It's certainly not about being more entertaining , because since 2003 ....only ten years .....we have witnessed the most exciting matches of all times

So this is not about serve and volley , not about a clash of styles , not about entertainment ....but simply about Federer winning .

The fact is that if courts were speeded up then integrity of our sport would be seriously Hurt but even more, Federer would not win if the courts were speeded up .

The fact is that Roddick experienced his greatest success on fast courts and when everything slowed down in 2003 we saw the rise of the baseliner Roger Federer. ( hard slowed in 2003 and grass 2001).

The fact is that Roger Federer has won all of his slams on slow courts and it is the slowing of the courts that have aided Federer in winning his 17 slams

Federer was utterly dominated by Rafter on fast courts ......he was not the star he is today . Only when the courts became slower did Federers star rise .

The other fact that you all are missing is Nadal. How much more does he have to prove that he will adapt and do whatever it takes to win?

He grew up on clay and was a clay court specialist . He worked hard and in 2008 made his breakthrough and learned to play on grass and then hard courts.

He improved his serve and John Mcenroe and Pat Cash have called Nadal the greatest volleyer in the game today.

If the courts were in fact faster Nadal would find a way . He would change his game and make it work . This has been proven over and over again.

But what about Federer? What has he done to change his game ? I submit to you that fast courts would actually help Nadal.

Nadal would change and develop his serve and volley .....he has that much talent , that much will power , that much determination , and that much raw talent.

Federer on the other hand would remain the same and do nothing different . Of the courts were faster Federer would be blown off the court as he was blown off when the courts were in fact faster.

In conclusion , tennis would not be more exciting , serve and volley would not be back , and your desire for Fed to dominate would not come to pass either .

 

[HRB]

So here's ANOTHER player claiming courts are slow. Wonder if Nadal fanboys will ascribe 'sour grapes' to her as well. Why, of course they will! (Except THUNDERVOLLEY who will somehow manage to make this thread all about how Serena is always victimized).
Such a shame though. I can't even bring myself to watch tennis these days. There are maybe like four players I'd make an exception for. The rest are just not worth my time.

You play the game that is presented to you!!!! If the courts are slow you adapt to slow, if they are fast you adapt to fast. These world class athletes, who are stronger and fitter than ever (a consensus shared by just about every former champion who meets them and can check their ego from their pre 1990 glory days) would do the work and make the change.

Don't discount a generation of players and their accomplishments for something they have NO SAY IN OR CONTROL OVER! If you don';t think the likes of Nadal, Joker, and Murray aren't fast enough to get up to the net and put away some chip return circa 1990 you are delusional.

 

[pennc94]

Faster courts not likely to help Federer NOW as an older and slower player.

Unclear if it would impact Nadal. Could he develop SnV? He never had to so that is an unknown. Lendl skipped a French once to practice SnV for Wimby. Can you imagine Nadal doing that? Doubtful. Lendl had to because that was the ONLY way to contend on the old grass. Now players can play the usual way with minor (relatively) adjustments.

SnV could make a seasonal return if the courts allowed it.

 

[Chico]

Should not TDK be in the US Open players lounge now?
While you are in the lounge next time, could you please check with Serena if she really meant this. I think she was mistaken and her words were taken out of context.
Also please post some pictures.

Thank you.

 

[jg153040]

Lets talk about the elephant in the room.......

This thread is all about Federer winning and somehow trying to prove that if the courts were faster that Federer would win more and Nadal wouldn't have a chance.

It's not about the integrity of tennis and bringing back serve and volley.....which was dead before Federer.

Sampras was basically the last of the serve and volleyers. After his retirement we had Roddick and Ferrero as the number one players in the world . Players like Hewitt and Safin took over.

So what happened ? It was Luxilon that changed everything .

It's certainly not about being more entertaining , because since 2003 ....only ten years .....we have witnessed the most exciting matches of all times

So this is not about serve and volley , not about a clash of styles , not about entertainment ....but simply about Federer winning .

The fact is that if courts were speeded up then integrity of our sport would be seriously Hurt but even more, Federer would not win if the courts were speeded up .

The fact is that Roddick experienced his greatest success on fast courts and when everything slowed down in 2003 we saw the rise of the baseliner Roger Federer. ( hard slowed in 2003 and grass 2001).

The fact is that Roger Federer has won all of his slams on slow courts and it is the slowing of the courts that have aided Federer in winning his 17 slams

Federer was utterly dominated by Rafter on fast courts ......he was not the star he is today . Only when the courts became slower did Federers star rise .

The other fact that you all are missing is Nadal. How much more does he have to prove that he will adapt and do whatever it takes to win?

He grew up on clay and was a clay court specialist . He worked hard and in 2008 made his breakthrough and learned to play on grass and then hard courts.

He improved his serve and John Mcenroe and Pat Cash have called Nadal the greatest volleyer in the game today.

If the courts were in fact faster Nadal would find a way . He would change his game and make it work . This has been proven over and over again.

But what about Federer? What has he done to change his game ? I submit to you that fast courts would actually help Nadal.

Nadal would change and develop his serve and volley .....he has that much talent , that much will power , that much determination , and that much raw talent.

Federer on the other hand would remain the same and do nothing different . Of the courts were faster Federer would be blown off the court as he was blown off when the courts were in fact faster.

In conclusion , tennis would not be more exciting , serve and volley would not be back , and your desire for Fed to dominate would not come to pass either .

Lol, I wont even respond to your post. You owned yourself here so many times, no response necessary. Anyone reading this?

 

[Omega_7000]

Well, I don't know about other greats complaining about surfaces, but Nadal and Toni complained a lot. Saying there should be more clay and less hard courts.

Slower surfaces favour Nadal's game and yet they still complain. Nadal also complains about the ranking system not favoring him because of injuries.

They also complain about how Djokovic and Federer are all lucky to be healthy and Nadal is unlucky.

I agree with you, that there shouldn't be any excuses though. Conditions are what they are. They are the same for everyone. So, people should stop making excuses for Nadals success.

I just find it funny you saying that people shouldn't complain about conditions where Nadal and Toni are famous about complaining the most.

They also complain about the time violation rule because Nadal breaks it all the time.

 

[Omega_7000]

Should not TDK be in the US Open players lounge now?
While you are in the lounge next time, could you please check with Serena if she really meant this. I think she was mistaken and her words were taken out of context.
Also please post some pictures.

Thank you.

Hahahahahahahahahaha :lol:

 

[jg153040]

They also complain about the time violation rule because Nadal breaks it all the time.

I forgot about that, yes. TDK made a bad example about citing Nadal as the guy who complains the least, lol. That was my point.

On the other hand, I agreed with him, that we shouldn't use surfaces this as an excuse. Conditions always change.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Faster courts not likely to help Federer NOW as an older and slower player.

Unclear if it would impact Nadal. Could he develop SnV? He never had to so that is an unknown. Lendl skipped a French once to practice SnV for Wimby. Can you imagine Nadal doing that? Doubtful. Lendl had to because that was the ONLY way to contend on the old grass. Now players can play the usual way with minor (relatively) adjustments.

SnV could make a seasonal return if the courts allowed it.

Nadal has only one Wimbledon win over Federer. In fact Federer leads Nadal 2-1 at Wimbledon . Fed also beat Roddick and Safin on the slow grass. If the grass had been faster I think he would have lost to both . I think players like Berdych , joker and Delpotro would be far more aided by fast grass .

As for the hard courts . They are slower but there again players like Safin and Berdych and roddick and isner amd joker would be aided by the fast court .

Personally I think the slowing of courts is the best thing that ever happened to Fed . Maybe not against Nadal but certainly against a lot of other players .

As far as Nadal the question is would he adjust to fast courts . Judging by his history I think he would have.

 

[The Dark Knight]

I forgot about that, yes. TDK made a bad example about citing Nadal as the guy who complains the least, lol. That was my point.

On the other hand, I agreed with him, that we shouldn't use surfaces this as an excuse. Conditions always change.

Who cares if they complain or not? I certainly don't .

It's you guys who whine on and on and find reasons to disparage Nadals dominance in a desperate effort to explain away Nadals dominance .

The newest attack is "the surface".

Yeah sure a player like Serena wants it faster . She is a power house . Clearly it would help her and its this type of player that caused te surfaces to slow . It is the Berdych , Delpotro , joker , Safin power players that stand to gain the most with a faster surface not Federer.

Roger has benefitted the most from the slowing of courts and has 17 slams to prove it . I don't think he would have 17 on fast courts .

He didnt do so well on them before so why should he do well on them now?

 

[The Dark Knight]

Should not TDK be in the US Open players lounge now?
While you are in the lounge next time, could you please check with Serena if she really meant this. I think she was mistaken and her words were taken out of context.
Also please post some pictures.

Thank you.

I really should.

Unfortunately I can't be there everyday .

But I'll be there tommorow and Monday for sure .

Jealous?

 

[jg153040]

Who cares if they complain or not? I certainly don't .

It's you guys who whine on and on and find reasons to disparage Nadals dominance in a desperate effort to explain away Nadals dominance .

The newest attack is "the surface".

Yeah sure a player like Serena wants it faster . She is a power house . Clearly it would help her and its this type of player that caused te surfaces to slow . It is the Berdych , Delpotro , joker , Safin power players that stand to gain the most with a faster surface not Federer.

Roger has benefitted the most from the slowing of courts and has 17 slams to prove it . I don't think he would have 17 on fast courts .

He didnt do so well on them before so why should he do well on them now?

Another self ownage. Have I gotten this good at debating or is this a weak troll era that I can win arguments now without even debating?

But you do have a strong point. Nadal would have 17 majors and Fed only 12 on faster courts.

 

[Omega_7000]

Who cares if they complain or not? I certainly don't .

Didn't you just say that Nadal and his camp don't complain about surfaces etc...they don't complain about anything is what you said...

Well...You've been proved wrong. Want to at least admit you were wrong for once?

 

[The Dark Knight]

Didn't you just say that Nadal and his camp don't complain about surfaces etc...they don't complain about anything is what you said...

Well...You've been proved wrong. Want to at least admit you were wrong for once?

No I don't remember saying that .....and I don't care if they do or not .

Whether they complain or not has nothing to do with this thread .

And if your point is that Nadal is somehow a bad guy .....I would disagree . I have met Rafa and I think he is a great person.

 

[mellowyellow]

When did 6 going on 7 years old argument become the standard for "new"?

 

[mandy01]

1. Indoors is not a surface

Your point being? Indoors is a different set of conditions and Nadal's track record is actually very ordinary there.

2. The WTF isnt even fast these days, so you Nadal haters who desperately stick to your "Nadal is a useless mug on all fast courts" will have to come up with a new way of trying to prove this failed thesis. Nadal won the Madrid Masters in 2005 and the Dubai event over Federer in the final back in 2006, on WAY WAY faster surfaces than the WTF is ever played on today.

Yes, the WTF isn't fast these days which is why Nadal even made a final there but it is low-bouncing. There's also nothing spectacular about winning Madrid or Dubai. Those are only two events out of several. Borg had a better record Indoors than Nadal. Just goes to show...

and those same players now say they no longer consider Federer the GOAT and atleast one of them (McEnroe) now claims Nadal is. Good to know you agree.

Mac only says Nadal COULD be the GOAT in the future. But clearly, you fanboys agree with his status quo view point given how adamantly you endorse his views.

 

[jg153040]

No I don't remember saying that .....and I don't care if they do or not .

Whether they complain or not has nothing to do with this thread .

And if your point is that Nadal is somehow a bad guy .....I would disagree . I have met Rafa and I think he is a great person.

I know, but you brought it up, saying champions like Nadal don't complain.

First you were wrong about Nadal and second you were even wrong using it as an argument since it has no relevance, which you are admitting right now.

You are arguing too much with Fed fans, you should stop. You can't handle it, you seem confused, contradicting yourself regularly almost in the same sentence, lol.

My point is you shouldn't go into detailed arguments with so many people on so many topics, since you get lost very fast.

 

[v-verb]

No I don't remember saying that .....and I don't care if they do or not .

Whether they complain or not has nothing to do with this thread .

And if your point is that Nadal is somehow a bad guy .....I would disagree . I have met Rafa and I think he is a great person.

I never met him but he seems to be nice.

Slow courts or fast courts I'm sure he would do well.

I wonder if there were no poly strings (thereby reducing the amount of spin potential) if he would still do as well, but I think he would adjust.

I'm not a Rafa fan per see - I admire all the Pro's for their talent and effort in being the best. Well maybe not Azarenka as far as admiration but she's still one of the greats

 

[mellowyellow]

Your point being? Indoors is a different set of conditions and Nadal's track record is actually very ordinary there.
.

this cant be right, ******** adapts to everything, apparently even potential career ending injuries...

 

[Egoista]

Yups you met nadal.......had a great time...had a good meal

then the alarm went off

 

[The Dark Knight]

Your point being? Indoors is a different set of conditions and Nadal's track record is actually very ordinary there.

Only because its not important enough to adapt to.

There are not enough indoor tournaments to change your game to.

By the way I was at the Williams match tonight and the wind was blowing crazy.....I've never seen this many double faults.

If you don't think there's a difference between indoors and outdoors your from another planet....

If the wind blows like this Nadal is definitely winning tomorrow.

Yes, the WTF isn't fast these days which is why Nadal even made a final there but it is low-bouncing. There's also nothing spectacular about winning Madrid or Dubai. Those are only two events out of several. Borg had a better record Indoors than Nadal. Just goes to show...

Unfortunately indoors does not matter very much.

I think the AO should not have merely copied the USI surface ....they should have made their tournament on a different surface,,,,,,.

My proposition for the AO is :

1- cork.....have you ever played on that? Amazing surface.....very fast but very high bouncing as well. Soft on the knees.

2- hartru.....faster than clay bit slower than hard.

3- indoor carpet.....maybe serve and volley would come back ?

Mac only says Nadal COULD be the GOAT in the future. But clearly, you fanboys agree with his status quo view point given how adamantly you endorse his views.

Arguments can and are being made that Nadal is the goat.

It's no longer a given that Federer is the goat....there are logical sound arguments for Nadal and against Nadal.

 

[Mr.Lob]

How do "they" slow a hard court down. Soft concrete?
How do they slow grass down... let it grow higher? More weed and feed?

Seems like they could have saved some money by keeping the courts how they were, and producing a slightly slower ball.

 

[Magnus]

In my opinion slower courts are supporting Nadal, Murray and Djokovic but why Federer is exempted? Just because he beat grandpapa Sampras? He too got help from slowing conditions. If 90s conditions were there, no one among the Big 4 could have been No 1 against Sampras by TW logic. But people are so dumb that they forget that these guys are champions and would have adjusted their game accordingly. (Just like Fed did in 2001, Djokovic in 2011 etc.) It is like asking how Laver would have done today. But the truth is he would have been a baseliner today and still would have been beating the @sses of Top players frequently.

Prime Federer was so much better than anything we see today and anything we saw back then. The difference is overwhelming and to be honest quite scary. I haven't seen any player, ever, that dominated the way Federer did back then. And it looked like he didn't even try...

 

[Praetorian]

But in the 90s they wouldn't know who Murray and Djokovic are?

Its like saying today, "In 15 years, a couple of serve and volleyers will win the french open"

 

[Tennusdude]

Tennis Warehouse has a picture of Serena on their front page and the caption says COOL UNDER PRESSURE! LMAO.

 

[pmerk34]

Tennis Warehouse has a picture of Serena on their front page and the caption says COOL UNDER PRESSURE! LMAO.

She won. that's all that matters.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Federer is not the GOAT, there's no such thing is GOAT, but if there was, Fed's the closest one to the definition. Nadal BY FAR cannot even come close to being the GOAT. A player who almost NEVER defended a title off clay and only has 4 (yes, 4) slams outside clay cannot be considered the GOAT. When its finally revealed he's doping, it'll kill the GOAT discussion for good regarding Rafita.

A lot of hall of famers and sports writers completely disagree with you.

As far as doping.....that's like saying "in the years to come it will be revealed that Federer is gay".....there is no evidence of that and it's a nasty allegation.

Accusing Nadal of using PED is as bad as saying Federer is gay.

Both are horrible statements and have no room on this board or anywhere else.

It's just downright nasty.

 

[Clay lover]

A lot of hall of famers and sports writers completely disagree with you.

As far as doping.....that's like saying "in the years to come it will be revealed that Federer is gay".....there is no evidence of that and it's a nasty allegation.

Accusing Nadal of using PED is as bad as saying Federer is gay.

Both are horrible statements and have no room on this board or anywhere else.

It's just downright nasty.

Uh...just want to remind you that to most people in the Western countries there's nothing "wrong" about being gay.

 

[sureshs]

Accusing Nadal of using PED is as bad as saying Federer is gay.

Both are perfectly acceptable

 

[dominikk1985]

She won. that's all that matters.

yes but still cool under pressure is not the right word. she won because of her tremendous willpower but mentally this was very tough for her. she looked devasted even for most of the last set after choking away that lead. even when up 4-1 she was still looking like she was in shock. almost like she was emotionally dead and playing that 3rd set in trance after having spent all her emotional energy in the first two sets.

amazing performance of course.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Uh...just want to remind you that to most people in the Western countries there's nothing "wrong" about being gay.

I agree . But then why do so many people on this board freak out if you dare even insinuate it?

I don't think it's fair to accuse Nadal of doing something illegal without a shred of evidence ; however saying that Federer is gay which there is nothing wrong with ....is a criminal offense here at TW?

In fact there is far more evidence that fed is actually in the closet than Nadal using Peds.......however I think both statements are wrong to say and i am against people saying it against either of these future hall of famers.

If people get banned for saying Federer is in the closet then they should
Also get banned for accusing Nadal for using Steroids.

This double standard needs to stop .

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Both are perfectly acceptable

Fed has baby beards?

 

[The Dark Knight]

Fed has baby beards?

Can you say "John Travolta"? But that's not the point ....the truth of these statements is not the issue..

Both are wrong to say without any evidence .

There is absolutely zero evidence that Nadal uses Steroids or that Federer is in the closet.

So why say it?

 

[Omega_7000]

Can you say "John Travolta"? But that's not the point ....the truth of these statements is not the issue..

Both are wrong to say without any evidence .

There is absolutely zero evidence that Nadal uses Steroids or that Federer is in the closet.

So why say it?

Yeah Fed who had a girlfriend long before he became famous and is married with kids is in the closet...while Nadal who grabs his friends butt on live tv isn't? Sure whatever helps you sleep at night. :lol:

btw It's not just Fed fans that say it...Sampras fans say it all the time...Your buddy 90sClay says Nadal is juicing all the time...Djokovic fans say it too...Interesting how you chose to attack only Federer... :roll:

Just goes to show how desperate you are to attack Federer every chance you get...

 

[The Dark Knight]

Yeah Fed who had a girlfriend long before he became famous and is married with kids is in the closet...while Nadal who grabs his friends butt on live tv isn't? Sure whatever helps you sleep at night. :lol:

btw It's not just Fed fans that say it...Sampras fans say it all the time...Your buddy 90sClay says Nadal is juicing all the time...Djokovic fans say it too...Interesting how you chose to attack only Federer... :roll:

Just goes to show how desperate you are to attack Federer every chance you get...

There's about the same evidence that Federer is in the closet . Just because someone has children doesn't mean they are not gay . But I'm not getting into that nor am I going to talk about Federer being in the closet because I think it's wrong to say .....the same way it's wrong to accuse Nadal of using Peds .

It's not fair to either players and it has no place here.

I was just trying to show you and others why it's wrong to say such things and how neither statements should be said.

 

[Omega_7000]

There's about the same evidence that Federer is in the closet . Just because someone has children doesn't mean they are not gay . But I'm not getting into that nor am I going to talk about Federer being in the closet because I think it's wrong to say .....the same way it's wrong to accuse Nadal of using Peds .

It's not fair to either players and it has no place here.

I was just trying to show you and others why it's wrong to say such things and how neither statements should be said.

Yeah but why attack only Federer? and so what if Federer or Nadal are? Why do you care?...Why not attack Sampras or Djokovic when their fans are saying the same thing?...Says a lot about
you.

 

[Emiliano55]

This is just an assumption that Rafa would have done worse in the 90s. How do you know? He would be completely different player? Maybe his baseline game would be worse, but his serve and net skills much better.

How do you know he wouldn't be able to do what Borg did? Play serve and volley on grass and baseline on clay?

We can't just transport players into the past with the mindset of todays game.

The same is reversed saying Sampras would do badly today on slower conditions. His game would be different. Champions are winning mostly because of talent and mindset and work ethic and solving problems and adapting to challenges.

So, there is no point in making any assumptions.

How do I know ?

Simple mate. Which the fastest surface nowadays (well, its getting slower too from last year) ? The WTF.

How many WTF Rafa have ? ZERO.

Also, let's not forget the fast courts on the 90s were even faster than the WTF court.

So, yeah, looking at this, you can clearly imagine how Rafa would have performed under the 90's court conditions.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Yeah but why attack only Federer? and so what if Federer or Nadal are? Why do you care?...Why not attack Sampras or Djokovic when their fans are saying the same thing?...Says a lot about
you.

I didn't attack Federer . In fact the opposite is true .

The vast majority of TW users are Fed fans and it is they who relentlessly attack Nadal.

I don't want to be like Bush and attack Iraq when alqaeda was in Afghanistan .

But I'm not attacking either Nadal or Fed . It's just as wrong to say Nadal is using Peds as it is to say Federer is in the closet.

Or why don't you enlighten me ? Please explain why it's perfectly fine to say that Nadal is using PED which is illegal but it's not ok to say that Federer is in the closet ....which there is nothing actually wrong with ?

 

[anantak2k]

One problem.....

Federer grew up playing on clay.

And it doesn't matter . Connors grew up on fast hard courts. They changed the open to clay and he had to face Borg. No complaints from Jimmy....he just went out there and beat Borg.

Conditions change....that's life ....but a tough guy like Connors ornNadals just rolls with the changes and doesn't make excuses.

Exactly, you didn't hear Federer complain about the blue clay in Madrid. He just rolled with it and won the title. Meanwhile, Nadal and Djokovic were too busy complaining that the surface did not suit their play style. It was too fast, too slippery, no?

 

[jg153040]

Exactly, you didn't hear Federer complain about the blue clay in Madrid. He just rolled with it and won the title. Meanwhile, Nadal and Djokovic were too busy complaining that the surface did not suit their play style. It was too fast, too slippery, no?

So, TDK at least admits Fed is indoor goat and a blue clay goat. Not much, but it's a start.

 

[The Dark Knight]

So, TDK at least admits Fed is indoor goat and a blue clay goat. Not much, but it's a start.

Indoor goat yes.

Blue clay ? Not so sure.

Then again ...if the slams were indoors Nadal would adapt and win .