Something that people need to understand about 2015 Federer

[NatF]

You said that Fed's problem with Djokovic in 2014-16 was that he had not adapted to the racquet yet. He adapted only in 2017.

Since 2017 the h2h is 4-1 Djokovic.

So the problem was not adapting to the racquet?

Is that actually what I said? I think you'll find the answer is no, it's not. I was speaking purely on why some might argue that Fed was better in 2017 than 2014/2015 despite being older - I made no comments about the h2h with Djokovic.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Nah not for me. I’ll take 2019 Fed all day over 2014/2015 on slow Wimbledon grass that requires better returning and baseline play. 14/15 on fast courts though.

He made rome final that year.
If not for zoning wawrinka, he was making the RG final.
If he could be a bit more clutch, he could've gone 2-0 up in sets against best grassovic.

 

[Lew II]

Is that actually what I said? I think you'll find the answer is no, it's not. I was speaking purely on why some might argue that Fed was better in 2017 than 2014/2015 despite being older - I made no comments about the h2h with Djokovic.

Ok.

IMO the main difference between 2014-15 and 2017-18 is that in the latter he didn't play Djokovic.

 

[KINGROGER]

I think 14/15 Fed was a very good opponent on BO3 HCs. At slams for whatever reason’s he didn’t bring a top level. Djokovic basically kept the ball in play with decent depth and watch Federer implode with UFE’s. Nothing special apart from the last 2 sets of the Wimbledon 15 final.

 

[NatF]

Ok.

IMO the main difference between 2014-15 and 2017-18 is that in the latter he didn't play Djokovic.

That's probably true.

 

[KINGROGER]

Ok.

IMO the main difference between 2014-15 and 2017-18 is that in the latter he didn't play Djokovic.

19 Fed (which is worse than 17) had double MPs against Djokovic. I’m taking 2017 Fed against 14 Djokovic and 5 sets against 15 version.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Just watched the '15 Wimbledon F video again.

The commentator said in the 6 matches coming into the final, Federer had to face 4 break points. That's incredible, that's top-notch tennis. In the semi, Murray had 1 break point, in Fed's very first service game. Fed was playing sublime tennis (as all tennis analysts acknowledged prior to the match), he would've overwhelmed any other opponent.

There's no way '17 version of Fed even came close to '14 or '15. I remembered watching the '17 F, I thought both finalists were ordinary, and thought, if Djokovic were not injured, he'd have won easily over either finalist.

Djokovic as an opponent would ask questions of Federer that a healthy Cilic could only dream of! Much less an injured Cilic!

Hearken back to the times "peak" Djokovic got bagelled in the Cincy final.

 

[Krish0608]

You said that Fed's problem with Djokovic in 2014-16 was that he had not adapted to the racquet yet. He adapted only in 2017.

Since 2017 the h2h is 4-1 Djokovic.

So the problem was not adapting to the racquet?

Since 2018* Paris. Just saying. The way you use numbers is disingenuous. But hey, that's old news.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Bottom line : he was an amazing opponent, very good especially on grass and HC.

But strategically he had enough gaping holes in his game that could be exploited by a very complete player(Ala Djokovic ).



The guy had literally decided to not play any rallies going over 5 shots. That just can't happen in a baseline dominated era. He lacked consistency from back of the court and he covered it with huge serve and net rush, of course those are the terms Federer wants play every match on, but someone like Djokovic would always bulldoze such an approach over bo5.


What people forget that Federer was way too suicidally aggressive in his matches. This just wasn't going to hold against an in form ATG like Djokovic over 3-4 hr period.
People need to stop saying things like 2015 Federer could have won a bo5 match against 2015 Djokovic. He won't, not at USO or anywhere.


I am sick of hearing how "Federer lost important points by silly mistakes IN USO 2015 F Or Wimbledon F"

No, they weren't really silly, Federer just decided to be overly aggressive as he thought he could never beat Djokovic from baseline.

Being crafty doesn't win you GS now, being solid does.



There is a good reason why 2017 won slams and beat a resurgent Nadal , unlike 2015 , 2017 did not thoroughly neglect the baseline . Infact early 2017 was very happy junk balling from the back. But if Djokovic was around, he again would expose Federer's relatively bad movement to FH side.

So even though 2015 was a great player, his playing style was so niche and suicidal that it ensured that he won't be able to defeat a well playing consistent Djokovic.



If you want a recent version of Federer who would stand a chance against 2015 Djokovic in bo5 , look at 2011-12. 2015-17 would be Massacred.

USO gives people false hope as Djokovic didn't really bring it and Wimbledon could have and should have been a straight setter.

Fed beat Djokovic three times that year. How do you explain that?

 

[Lew II]

Since 2018* Paris. Just saying. The way you use numbers is disingenuous. But hey, that's old news.

So he was not adapted to the racquet anymore in 2018 Cincinnati (not Paris)?

 

[ForehandCross]

Fed beat Djokovic three times that year. How do you explain that?

Courts and Bo3.

Also Djokovic in slam is a whole different animal.

Dubai , Cincy,WTF all suited Fed.

Wimbledon suited his style too. But Djokovic was so solid that Federer's plan A failed miserably and he had to no plan B to tackle Djokovic with that day.

 

[SeeItHitIt]

He made the right decision, but came off short. Fed would never beat Djoker from the baseline.

I don’t know about ‘never’, but the inverse can also be assumed without a stretch (Djoker cant ever beat Fed with all-court, even now).

 

[King No1e]

He never would. But to neglect it was wrong.

2011 actually didn't outdid Djokovic from baseline at RG and USO, but he wasn't as hopeless from the baseline so he had options to adapt a mixed up game, and it worked.

And let's not forget that Federer did far better in BO3 vs Djoker in 2015 than he did in 2011. Because 2011 Djoker would just outgun Federer from the baseline. While 2015 Djokovic played more percentage tennis and Federer played much more aggressive, which earned him some BO3 wins on fast courts but didn't work in BO5.

 

[Biotic]

Would have loved to see Djokovic Wim 2015 final vs Federer Wim 17 final or Djokovic AO 15 final vs Federer AO 17 final.

Let's say Wim 2015 Anderson finished him off. The rest stays the same.

Federer handled Murray in straights, and it's safe to say he would have done the same to any other opponent bar Djokovic. Would have been a dominant run to the title.

Now, would you love to see Federer Wim 2015 vs Djokovic Wim 2018?

 

[KINGROGER]

Fed beat Djokovic three times that year. How do you explain that?

2 fast courts over BO3 and a RR match. over BO5 Federer didn’t bring the same level.

 

[KINGROGER]

If Wimbledon was fast grass I’d wager Fed would be a 10-11 times champ by now and a baseliner like Djokovic “might” have 1-2. We’d see a couple of different new winners too.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

And let's not forget that Federer did far better in BO3 vs Djoker in 2015 than he did in 2011. Because 2011 Djoker would just outgun Federer from the baseline. While 2015 Djokovic played more percentage tennis and Federer played much more aggressive, which earned him some BO3 wins on fast courts but didn't work in BO5.

2011 Federer wasn't particularly focused in BO3 until the indoor season when he could strike while Djokodal were on fumes. He could still make masters QF/SF on semi-autopilot. Not the case in 2015 where Rusterer would fall to Kyrgios, Ramos and Isner, so he had to be focused when he wanted to do well.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

Would have loved to see Djokovic Wim 2015 final vs Federer Wim 17 final or Djokovic AO 15 final vs Federer AO 17 final.

Federer would win the polls. Djokovic would win the matches.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

2 fast courts over BO3 and a RR match. over BO5 Federer didn’t bring the same level.

Fed was ultra tight in Wimbledon final.
USO F his FH was worst I’ve seen in a slam final from him.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Federer played great in the summer of 2015, Djokovic was simply too good for him on the biggest occasions. No, I don't think it was ultimate peak Federer but at the same time I don't see why it had to be for Novak to be given credit for his wins over him.

 

[SonnyT]

There's little doubt, in '14 and '15 at Wimbledon, Federer and Djokovic were heads and shoulders above the field. Whoever won that duel would be crowned champion.

In 2019, both had declined, maybe one for good, the other temporarily. Who knows!

 

[KINGROGER]

Fed was ultra tight in Wimbledon final.
USO F his FH was worst I’ve seen in a slam final from him.

This. I have no doubt 2011 Federer would win a slam vs 2015 field (RG or USO)

 

[Nadalgaenger]

This. I have no doubt 2011 Federer would win a slam vs 2015 field (RG or USO)

No doubt? He’d have a decent shot. 2011 FO Fed definitely takes out Stan. But would he beat Nole?

 

[Third Serve]

No doubt? He’d have a decent shot. 2011 FO Fed definitely takes out Stan. But would he beat Nole?

I think he would. IMO Djokovic played a better match in 2011 against Fed than he did in 2015 against Stan. I think Fed might even win that one with a more dominant score line. I actually think Stan would be the tougher match for Fed.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

I think he would. IMO Djokovic played a better match in 2011 against Fed than he did in 2015 against Stan. I think Fed might even win that one with a more dominant score line. I actually think Stan would be the tougher match for Fed.

Of course 2011 Fed was not dominant. That match was won by two tie breaks. 2019 Wimbledon showed that the guy winning tiebreaks isn’t always the dominant player.

 

[Third Serve]

Of course 2011 Fed was not dominant. That match was won by two tie breaks. 2019 Wimbledon showed that the guy winning tiebreaks isn’t always the dominant player.

I didn’t say he was.

 

[SonnyT]

In '15, Kevin Anderson was up 2 sets on Djokovic in the 4th round at Wimbledon, and then lost the next 3 sets, 7-5 in the 5th. They said the last three sets were played the following day, I don't remember! So the match must've been played in Court 1. (Imagine that, Court 1 actually save the *** of the #1 ranked player. No wonder C1 has never been Fedfans' favorite!) If Anderson had won, Federer would've been the heavy favorite to take the crown.

Who'd have thought but, in '15, Anderson cost Fed another Wimbledon crown more than in '18! Because in '18, even if he had beat Anderson, he'd have to beat Isner (expected) and Djokovic (hard but doable).

 

[RS]

Let's say Wim 2015 Anderson finished him off. The rest stays the same.

Federer handled Murray in straights, and it's safe to say he would have done the same to any other opponent bar Djokovic. Would have been a dominant run to the title.

Now, would you love to see Federer Wim 2015 vs Djokovic Wim 2018?

The poster was talkinh about 2017 Federer chances vs Djokovic not 2018 Djokovic. But yeah the latter would be a good match as well.

 

[JaoSousa]

delete

 

[vex]

Bottom line : he was an amazing opponent, very good especially on grass and HC.

But strategically he had enough gaping holes in his game that could be exploited by a very complete player(Ala Djokovic ).



The guy had literally decided to not play any rallies going over 5 shots. That just can't happen in a baseline dominated era. He lacked consistency from back of the court and he covered it with huge serve and net rush, of course those are the terms Federer wants play every match on, but someone like Djokovic would always bulldoze such an approach over bo5.


What people forget that Federer was way too suicidally aggressive in his matches. This just wasn't going to hold against an in form ATG like Djokovic over 3-4 hr period.
People need to stop saying things like 2015 Federer could have won a bo5 match against 2015 Djokovic. He won't, not at USO or anywhere.


I am sick of hearing how "Federer lost important points by silly mistakes IN USO 2015 F Or Wimbledon F"

No, they weren't really silly, Federer just decided to be overly aggressive as he thought he could never beat Djokovic from baseline.

Being crafty doesn't win you GS now, being solid does.



There is a good reason why 2017 won slams and beat a resurgent Nadal , unlike 2015 , 2017 did not thoroughly neglect the baseline . Infact early 2017 was very happy junk balling from the back. But if Djokovic was around, he again would expose Federer's relatively bad movement to FH side.

So even though 2015 was a great player, his playing style was so niche and suicidal that it ensured that he won't be able to defeat a well playing consistent Djokovic.



If you want a recent version of Federer who would stand a chance against 2015 Djokovic in bo5 , look at 2011-12. 2015-17 would be Massacred.

USO gives people false hope as Djokovic didn't really bring it and Wimbledon could have and should have been a straight setter.

2015 Fed sure was fun to watch tho

 

[vex]

If Wimbledon was fast grass I’d wager Fed would be a 10-11 times champ by now and a baseliner like Djokovic “might” have 1-2. We’d see a couple of different new winners too.

Djokovic doesn’t win Wimbys because of his baseline skills. He wins them because he’s great at the 2 shots that matter the most on grass: Serves and Returns.