It finally happened yesterday. Jeff McDonald, Vanderbilt's coach and one of the most respected coaches in the women's game, finally lost it. It was in the semi-final match of the SEC Women's championship, being held in College Station, Texas. The match was a tight one between his Commodores and the South Carolina Gamecocks. All of a sudden, Vanderbilt wins a point and McDonald lets out a shriek like one has not heard in a long time. The shriek, mocked the constant screaming and screeching made by not one, but all of South Carolina's players throughout the match. Coaches throughout the SEC have constantly complained to the SEC, and even at last year's NCAA's, about South Carolina's attempt at what can only be described as gamesmanship (screaming and fist pumping right in your opponents face after each and every point). Except for the rare hinderance call, officials have decided not to do anything about this. McDonald had enough yesterday. It's a shame, because SC's roster is loaded with talent, led by #1 Ingrid Martins, probably the best player that nobody has heard about and some other outstanding players. Are the girls being coached to do this? Unfortunately the answer has to be yes. Girls that never uttered a sound in the juniors, have been transformed into screaming machines. If these coaches aren't encouraging this, they are sure standing by idly and allowing it to happen. I'm not going to say anymore. I just hope everyone tunes into the SEC Women's Championship match at 4:30 ET on SEC Network today, and sees for themselves. There is no place in college tennis, for this type of behavior. Watch for yourself, this is taking things a little too far!
South Carolina Women
- Thread starter The Dawgs
- Start date
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Was it much worse than Danielle Collins going screeching and yelling and going psycho on court ?
SavvyStringer
Professional
1. We do in fact coach the girls to do this. It's part of the culture. With all the restrictions that have been levied on the college game in the last few years it's one of the last ways to show emotion. 2. You don't watch much college tennis do you? Every team, at least all of the SEC teams do this. In the last 7 years I've watched 100+ matches between Men and Women. Players of all genders from all teams make noise that's what makes college tennis fun. Just go back to watching pro tennis. 3. Clearly it worked since they beat UGA 4-3 for the SEC title.
For the most part, I don’t have a problem with how they acted (having watched on SEC network yesterday) - yes, they’re showing a lot of emotion, both the players on the court and the players cheering on the sideline. They acted like every men’s team in college tennis, so tough if some other women’s teams get unsettled by their volume.
My one caveat, however, is the exaggerated dancing around and intentionally screeching the soles of their shoes during their opponent’s serves. Was happening on lots of courts, and even the returner’s partner in doubles, so certainly being coached / encouraged. That’s getting a little bush league - certainly a hindrance judgment call that I’d like to see some of the refs put a stop to. If it were men’s college tennis with some stronger serves, a couple first serves rifled at the returner’s partner would put a stop to it.
My one caveat, however, is the exaggerated dancing around and intentionally screeching the soles of their shoes during their opponent’s serves. Was happening on lots of courts, and even the returner’s partner in doubles, so certainly being coached / encouraged. That’s getting a little bush league - certainly a hindrance judgment call that I’d like to see some of the refs put a stop to. If it were men’s college tennis with some stronger serves, a couple first serves rifled at the returner’s partner would put a stop to it.
SavvyStringer
Professional
For the movement on serves it’s all about consistency. If you do it every time it’s routine. If you only do it on certain points it’s a hinderance. Use the rules to your advantage. They’ve been doing it in doubles for at least the last 5 years.
Part of what culture? The culture which disrespects your opponents and the game in general? There's a big difference in what the other teams in the SEC do and what South Carolina does.
SavvyStringer
Professional
The culture that is about competition and competing for the players beside you in an individual sport. You're attempting to take the college out of college tennis. It doesn't disrespect your opponents or the game. It's not directed at the opponents, that would be against the rules. For the most part it's self talk and releases tension. You probably also think the grunting in tennis is strategic.
I agree with you if players are pumping themselves up, but far to many players/teams take it to the disrespectful route of looking right at opponent and screaming and pumping fist, that is taunting not celebrating, not calling out SC either because I saw this way to many times at the Sun Belt this past weekend.
SavvyStringer
Professional
I think it certainly depends on the situation every time. The first time we played UGA during the regular season the 3 (Lordes) won a competitive match 4 and 3 and literally yelled right at our player all the way from the base line to the net. It lasted like 30 seconds. Our player just turned and walked over to the umpire rather than shaking her hand. It's life. I'm not sure why competition has to be taken out of everything. If you really watch the players you see all sorts of true gamesmanship. For instance in the match yesterday: 3-3 team score, Jokic took an injury timeout down 5-4 in the 3rd. Maybe she was hurt, maybe the match was sliding away after Martins won the last 2-3 games. I personally believe it was gamesmanship but who actually knows?
Dawgie Dawg
Rookie
Programs without history or relevance need to find gimmicks to try to find a way to win. Screaming is a popular gimmick in women tennis. Hooking in men tennis
SavvyStringer
Professional
Interesting. Hooking as a gimmick and another angry UGA fan. Hmm seems I've seen this before.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
with so much on the line, I can't blame them for hooking. but I just think balls just inside the line should be over-ruled everytime. These umpires just seem useless or are there just for show
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I've seen this behavior from a number of teams across a number of divisions, though it's usually men. I agree that it can be obnoxious, but I don't know, does it really have to be regulated? It's entertaining to see how teams deal with it; though it's understandably probably no fun for the players on the receiving end. Vanderbilt should have given it right back.
atatu
Legend
Yes ! Just watching the match vs. Duke it's obvious that they are doing this to distract the server, it's ridiculous.
Dawgie Dawg
Rookie
Georgia women bringing the respect to Athens. Win with class.
Yeah, adios SC. Spend a little more time practicing tennis and a little less time practicing squeaking shoes / being obnoxious next year.
Go Duke!
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Embarrassing.
SavvyStringer
Professional
You guys don't understand how coaching works do you? If you look back a year our assistant coach was the National Assistant of the year. Look at our recruiting comparative to the other 7 teams in the top 8. Then look at who won the award. Our coaches actually recruit AND develop players. We're not a school like Stanford, UGA, Duke, UNC where they have 2-3 girls playing that could have gone pro but for some reason ended up in college. Just to give you something else to gripe about, Our number one also got National Senior player of the year.
I’m talking about the behavior being coached. Governing body should not be endorsing intentional serve disruption. Yes he’s otherwise doing a wonderful job with the program.
SavvyStringer
Professional
Did I miss the cheating? Can you direct me to the rule that was broken?
I do think it is directly against a rule - there are several threads on talk TW in the adult league section arguing about interpretations of the rule that deals with allowable movement during service motions, and depends on referee interpretation of whether it is solely to distract - not going to spend another 20 posts debating the wording of that rule with you and beating a dead horse. It’s my opinion that ITA should not be endorsing someone who coaches this behavior. Either way Duke silenced you guys so I’m happy as a Duke alumnus.
SavvyStringer
Professional
Interesting how it's up to individual referees but over the last 5 years and multiple players doing the same thing it's never been talked about. And Duke played well and they should have considering their 6 could have played 1 for half the teams in the nation. Duke will be even better next year if Navarro and Beck actually both make it to school. My way too early prediction is they will be a top 10 doubles team by the time spring rolls around as long as they're left together. Emma will also be in the individual singles tournament next spring as long as the coach doesn't keep her too low in the lineup.
Like I’ve previously said I like a lot about what S.C. is doing. Bringing more vocal player / crowd support is great. More womens’s teams should do that. Their player development is great, I agree. We’ll agree to disagree on the shoe-screeching etc - I cannot support it and would never allow my child to do that regardless of coaching.
Dawgie Dawg
Rookie
Why isn't that considered good recruiting? Getting good players to come to college.
Beck's a 19 and Navarro a 20. Doubt they will be playing doubles together next year. Although Beck and Navarro are a great doubles team, Beck hasn't done much lately in singles.
SavvyStringer
Professional
Good recruiting doesn’t equal a good coach. It can make an average coach look good for sure. We’re talking about coaching.
SavvyStringer
Professional
Did Emma create a gap year? I thought they were both classified as 19’ last year.
optimaltennis
Rookie
Pretty sure Navarro is '20. Beck was originally '20, but reclassified to '19
SavvyStringer
Professional
Ok that makes sense. I felt like they were the same class. I watched them play clay nationals last year and Volvo this year. If they’re together in college they’re immediately one of the most dangerous doubles teams in the country.
Dawgie Dawg
Rookie
The short lefty for the Gamecocks who plays #2 is the worst player to watch in college tennis. Sprints backwards after she hits the ball, does nothing but moonballs and screams like a banshee every time she wins a point, even when she was getting killed in the 2nd set by the Duke player.
I can agree with you on that. They will make a very dangerous team. Hopefully Navarro will go pro and leave Beck hanging.
SavvyStringer
Professional
From being around her dad, I know he's committed to her going to school. I'm not sure why though. He's incredibly wealthy, the money will be there for her to go to school later if the pros don't work out but from what I've seen of her, she'll be top 100 in no time. Maybe struggle to get to top 10-20 but the way she plays and the way she is mentally she'll be top 100 quick.
On the other hand Beck's singles results haven't been great ever since she committed to Duke. Good thing for the rest of us is nobody ever gets any better at Duke!
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Oh please, don't be so upset that UGA women haven't won a team championship since 2000.
For comparison, Duke won in 2009.
Other SEC schools have won 5x since then (UF x4, Vandy x1).
The state of California has brought back 12 titles since then (Stanford x 10, UCLA x2).
And even that other school in Georgia has won since UGA's last women's team title, ouch.
Don't need to go bad-mouthing recruits you couldn't lock down just because it has been a down couple decades since UGA took a celebratory team photo. Next year might be your year!
SavvyStringer
Professional
They were certainly really strong this year but Stanford was just unreal.
atatu
Legend
I don't know for sure, but maybe because at Duke they actually have to go to class and get decent grades ?? I mean...Georgia isn't exactly an academic powerhouse is it ?
This has nothing to do with academics. We're talking tennis hear. If you want to talk academics go talk to a professor.
atatu
Legend
That's what I expected, and I think you meant "here."
I see it the same way. At least that day, Stanford was the better team. Nobody wants to make excuses or take anything away from Stanford, but I feel the #1 seed should have ever advantage the draw affords. When one team gets a 5 hour rest advantage on the other team, it should be the higher seed. I know you want to put your better teams. or at least higher seeded team on television but these teams fight all year to put themselves in the position of being the #1 seed and that's what you get for it. A 5 hour later start.
That was dumb. I really am embarrassed!
Dawgie Dawg
Rookie
Remind me who won the semifinal match between UGA and Duke on Saturday
As a Duke alumnus and basketball fan I can assure you no one (besides your own fan base) cares if you had a great team, even the best team in a given year, if you didn’t hang the banner. But sure, you guys failed one day later than Duke this year. You were this year’s Texas Tech of men’s basketball. Congrats. A team that will go down in history.
Dawgie Dawg
Rookie
Georgia did win the ITA Indoor title this year
Talking smack about a program that just eliminated you and ended your season is always a classic sign of sour grapes, only the most juvenile and insecure of fans do it. Oklahoma fans did the same thing in football after they lost the Rose Bowl to us. I was upset to see Georgia softball got eliminated by Minnesota today but am I going to start saying how much Minnesota's program sucks just because I am hurt they beat my team? No, because I am not a sore loser fan.
Or I just talked smack in response to a petty post from one of your fellow Dawg fans, who apparently couldn’t handle that a GA player chose to leave the state to go to Duke. Cannot expect you to follow the logical progression of this thread, however, which is probably why some players leave state looking for a better education. Won’t find me talking any smack about Texas men, despite eliminating UF, because their fans don’t freak out when they don’t win a recruiting battle and start posting a bunch of UTR nonsense about the other team. And because they’ve won* a title yesterday as opposed to twenty years ago
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