The Draw at AO will likely decide the winner

The Guru

Legend
Like most I believe this year's AO is more than likely going to be won by either Nadal or Djokovic, but the tour is extremely deep right now and there are some extremely threatening players that could stand in Nadal and Djokovic's way. There are also many pushovers in the same seed range as the threats so the difficulty of the draw could differ drastically based on luck (or maybe not :censored:). Here's a breakdown of the matchups that could happen for Nadal Djokovic:
3R:
Threats: Raonic, Tsonga, Kyrgios
Pushovers: Coric, Pella, Basilashvili
4R:
Threats: Shapovalov, Wawrinka
Pushovers: Nishikori
QF:
Threats: Tsitsipas, Medvedev
Pushovers: Zverev, Berretini
SF:
Title Contender: Federer
Probably not making it this far: Thiem

The players ranked from 7-12 are all really beatable but the group from 13-21 (plus Rublev) is riddled with people with big games who can take on the best. Not to mention the disparity between getting the 5th or 6th seed in the quarters vs 7 and 8. The most obvious difference is getting a GOAT candidate vs Thiem on a low bouncing medium fast hard court. The draw could be ridiculously easy or extremely challenging for Nadal or Djokovic and while I believe Nadal is mostly draw-proof, he isn't totally because he needs someone else to take out Djokovic for him so he needs some draw luck on that.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
But the tour is extremely deep right now
In the past 10 years, only Cilic, Stan and Murray have won slams aside from the big three. How can the tour be "extremely deep" under those circumstances? If the tour was really "extremely deep" then in 2019 the 4 slams would have panned out like this:

AO: Tsitsipas
FO: Rafa
Wimbledon: Shapo
USO: Med

Instead it was the same guys winning as always. The tour is anything but deep when nobody outside of the big 3 ever win majors. It's just a fact.
 

Yugram

Legend
It can indeed be decisive. Healthy or not, you could definitely tell Djokovic wasn’t winning USO with Wawrinka-Medvedev-Federer-Nadal draw.

I expect him to have a draw of similar fashion at AO as tournament director Craig Tiley is Federer’s puppet.
 

The Guru

Legend
In the past 10 years, only Cilic, Stan and Murray have won slams aside from the big three. How can the tour be "extremely deep" under those circumstances? Come on.... if the tour was really "extremely deep" then in 2019 the 4 slams would have panned out like this:

AO: Tsitsipas
FO: Rafa
Wimbledon: Shapo
USO: Med

Instead it was the same guys winning as always. The tour is anything but deep when nobody outside of the big 3 ever win majors. It's just a fact.
Deep does not equal top heavy. It means that the players from like 10-32 are better than they normally are. I agree that the top of the tour is really weak but I think there is a lot of depth in the field and I think that's evident when you could have the 1 seed get a draw like Querrey, Cilic, Raonic, Wawrinka, Medvedev, Federer, Nadal
 

Jonesy

Legend
I think the only bad match up for Rafa is Fed and DJ.

Djokovic needs to avoid Stan as always.

Fed needs to avoid Milman and the night.

Next gen are not ready to win a slam. Best of 5 is just too much for them.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
The tour is shaping up now. For every slam that goes it's gonna be tougher and tougher.
 

apjones01

Rookie
I think the only bad match up for Rafa is Fed and DJ.

Djokovic needs to avoid Stan as always.

Fed needs to avoid Milman and the night.

Next gen are not ready to win a slam. Best of 5 is just too much for them.
Not sure I agree - Med didn't exactly tire out against Nadal at the 2019 US Open. You could argue Nadal was more wiped out after that marathon.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
The tour is shaping up now. For every slam that goes it's gonna be tougher and tougher.
I'll believe it when I see it. Does anyone honestly believe that anyone besides one of the big 3 (primarily Rafa or Novak) will win the AO?
 

Drob

Hall of Fame
Yes, Nadal-Berrettini in the SF or F.

Do you really think that? So far on this thread there seems like a consensus that we should be concentrating on Djokovic, Nadal and the "Maestro". One poster mentioned Medvedev.

I have been thinking differently about 2020. I think it is going to move in the other direction. But before I get to that, it appears that maybe you think Berrettini is perhaps the best of the young guns? If so, why? I may be underrating him.

I'll believe it when I see it. Does anyone honestly believe that anyone besides one of the big 3 (primarily Rafa or Novak) will win the AO?


My thinking is that The Holy Trinity will account for only one, maybe 2 Slams. I would also predict The Gold to Djokovic. Two or three Slams and ATP finals to the younger guys. This extension of career, or new longevity factor, is real but only goes so far. In history of men's game, only players to win real majors after 34 (Nadal's age), are Tilden, Rosewall and Federer. Can you think of anyone else? Each of these three moved lightly through the battle, almost like angels floating above the bitter earth. Rafa has already won his last Major, IMO. Age is still age. Rafa has defied the mileage and age and this courage will be an important part of his legacy. Federer is clearly over the hill but it is still conceivable he might win Wimbledon - i think not, but just possible. And by over the hill i don't mean irrelevant. You'd expect he'll manage to stay in top 8, barely.

Nole can be competitive in any of the four Slams, if not hurting or fatigued. Of the Slams, Wimbledon seems his best possibility. I predict the Gold Medal because he wants it so bad. I think that most of us see Olympic Gold as something on level of the ATP Finals, or Davis Cup from the 90s to 2018 - some posters say it is like one of the higher M1000s. But not Nole. I think i even have a 2016 quote where he puts it virtually on the level of the Slams. He has said the Gold Medal is his top priority this season. Novak will be mentally together this year, and who is a greater competitor than he?

I put Tsitsipas and Medvedev as most likely to win a Slam, along w Djokovic.

Next, pretty good chance: Dominic Thiem

Next - has most of the tools and would not be a huge surprise, but a bit of a surprise: Zverev.

Next: Fed and Rafa

Next: probably his first Slam comes in 2021: Auger-Aliassime.

Just about Anyone else this year would surprise me, except Kyrgios who is just in a class by himself. With Fed waning, Nick is the most talented player on the tour, or maybe 2nd to Novak - can't compare their games. Also, altho not very likely to happen, if Shapovalov makes the quarters and then can lock in on the target, those rocket launchers he calls ground strokes could beat anyone's game. Who could beat him if his accuracy rose just 10-15 percent during a short hot streak? Only a determined, fit and grooved Djokovic, that's who (you may say you could say this about many players - that if they get really hot they could win a Slam. I think not. It almost never works that way). Shapo over hits, but if he finds a patch when he is in the zone, i don't think anybody can out hit him - and he has better net game than most, a good-enough and improving service, and now even a bit of touch.

Melbourne: Assuming and hoping there is a tournament, I say Tsi or Mdv for favorite but Novak might just bore us to death w his eighth championship. Of course i don't mean that Novak is boring, perish the thought, only starting to get a little boring how he dominates the AO.

Roland Garros - Thiem for slight favorite. Nadal 2nd. I may think he is about spent, but then Rafa will win his decimotercero. Stefanos and Sascha love the clay, so 3 and 5 seeds, respectively. And Djokovic is an historical top-10 or 12 clay player, so he is my 4th seed. I just think that the terra baute is going to be brutal on 33-year old legs, given the power game they play nowadays on the dirt. And, Novak seems to struggle at RG relative to eight clay M1000s, four at the Italian Open (on the other hand, two finals losses to Nadal, and nobody, not even Nadal, could have beat the Stanimal on June 7, 2015). And, Nole did finally get over the hump. IF Djokovic wins RG this season or next, that ends the GOAT debate in my view. I just don't think he can do it. If he gets a "light draw" first four rounds . . . ???

A Djokovic championship at the French would be a huge achievement. Yet a Dominic Thiem championship makes sense.


Wimbledon - all things being equal, the Crown should go to Novak if he is fit. Folks talk so much about how Nadal's way of playing is inordinately brutal on the body - what about Djokovic's so often grinding, defense-offense, chess-like approach and his superhuman splits on the dead run? The elbow may kick up. He occasionally (increasingly it seems) suffers a bit from fatigue. It is a game of margins. Tsi certainly seems to have the game and attitude for Wimbledon, but grass is very alien to him. He needs a couple of years. Kyrgios has game for it but we know it is doubtful he is a champion. Regarding Zv, unless he is in some kind of hot streak, i think Wimbledon is too daunting yet for him, psychologically. Outside chance for Fed. He can get to the quarters easily enough, maybe the semis easily enough. At that point, a few days of Indian Summer and a little bit of luck and its NINE championships at the King of tournaments. AA was 9-3 on grass last year but he is not ready. Guess should not forget Mdv but poor on grass so far and who knows how his peculiar style will jibe with lawn tennis. Possibly great, i just don't know tennis well enough to hazard a guess. Any ideas on that? As said, should go to Djokovic.

USO - Well, Mdv of course, as favorite. I see outside chance for Thiem. Nole in the running for sure. Tsi of course. Berrettini or Shapo, anyone?

ATP Finals - Last year in London. Thiem should be motivated and confident. If he makes top eight, Karen Khachanov is a beast indoors. The surface is medium-fast and indoors. Roger and Novak have both thrived at this venue. Sascha seems comfortable at the O2, with a title to prove it, and Stefanos took to the super stadium like it was his back yard. So, there are six plausible winners: Tsi, Thiem, Zv, Nole , Fed and Khachanov, if makes the top eight, which I think he might. And Mdv makes a seventh. Point: There is a greater combination of depth and sheer excellence than anytime since 2012-13.* The current young guns are not Dimitrovs, Nishikoris or Raonices. They are not a lost generation, overrated and either lacking the will of the champion or overly beseeched by minor and moderate injuries, or both. Injuries the up-and-coming youngsters may incur from time to time. But the players I have mentioned appear to have grit and heart to go along with their inter-galatic level of athleticism and technical virtuosity.

A Note: I guess you all saw that Juan Martin pulled out of the Aussie. Broken kneecaps do not take this long, usually. I feel sad not being able to mention him as a possible contender at Flushing Meadow, Tokyo or Turin in 2nd half of season. There may not be a glorious end to this hero's grand struggle.

Do I overrate anyone? Did i leave out anyone whose championship would not be a big upset? Lots of guys moving up. Anyone particularly impress any of you as possible Slamster in 2020? Thanks.


*2012 top eight were, in order: Djokovic, Federer , Murray, Nadal, Ferrer, Berdych, del Potro, Tsonga.

2013 top eight were, in order: Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer, Murray, del Potro, Berdych, Federer, Warwinka.
 
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I Am Finnish

Bionic Poster
Like most I believe this year's AO is more than likely going to be won by either Nadal or Djokovic, but the tour is extremely deep right now and there are some extremely threatening players that could stand in Nadal and Djokovic's way. There are also many pushovers in the same seed range as the threats so the difficulty of the draw could differ drastically based on luck (or maybe not :censored:). Here's a breakdown of the matchups that could happen for Nadal Djokovic:
3R:
Threats: Raonic, Tsonga, Kyrgios
Pushovers: Coric, Pella, Basilashvili
4R:
Threats: Shapovalov, Wawrinka
Pushovers: Nishikori
QF:
Threats: Tsitsipas, Medvedev
Pushovers: Zverev, Berretini
SF:
Title Contender: Federer
Probably not making it this far: Thiem

The players ranked from 7-12 are all really beatable but the group from 13-21 (plus Rublev) is riddled with people with big games who can take on the best. Not to mention the disparity between getting the 5th or 6th seed in the quarters vs 7 and 8. The most obvious difference is getting a GOAT candidate vs Thiem on a low bouncing medium fast hard court. The draw could be ridiculously easy or extremely challenging for Nadal or Djokovic and while I believe Nadal is mostly draw-proof, he isn't totally because he needs someone else to take out Djokovic for him so he needs some draw luck on that.
Nishikori is not playing AO
 

oldmanfan

Legend


Do you really think that? So far on this thread there seems like a consensus that we should be concentrating on Djokovic, Nadal and the "Maestro". One poster mentioned Medvedev.

I have been thinking differently about 2020. I think it is going to move in the other direction. But before I get to that, it appears that maybe you think Berrettini is perhaps the best of the young guns? If so, why? I may be underrating him.




My thinking is that The Holy Trinity will account for only one, maybe 2 Slams. I would also predict The Gold to Djokovic. Two or three Slams and ATP finals to the younger guys. This extension of career, or new longevity factor, is real but only goes so far. In history of men's game, only players to win real majors after 34 (Nadal's age), are Tilden, Rosewall and Federer. Can you think of anyone else? Each of these three moved lightly through the battle, almost like angels floating above the bitter earth. Rafa has already won his last Major, IMO. Age is still age. Rafa has defied the mileage and age and this courage will be an important part of his legacy. Federer is clearly over the hill but it is still conceivable he might win Wimbledon - i think not, but just possible. And by over the hill i don't mean irrelevant. You'd expect he'll manage to stay in top 8, barely.

Nole can be competitive in any of the four Slams, if not hurting or fatigued. Of the Slams, Wimbledon seems his best possibility. I predict the Gold Medal because he wants it so bad. I think that most of us see Olympic Gold as something on level of the ATP Finals, or Davis Cup from the 90s to 2018 - some posters say it is like one of the higher M1000s. But not Nole. I think i even have a 2016 quote where he puts it virtually on the level of the Slams. He has said the Gold Medal is his top priority this season. Novak will be mentally together this year, and who is a greater competitor than he?

I put Tsitsipas and Medvedev as most likely to win a Slam, along w Djokovic.

Next, pretty good chance: Dominic Thiem

Next - has most of the tools and would not be a huge surprise, but a bit of a surprise: Zverev.

Next: Fed and Rafa

Next: probably his first Slam comes in 2021: Auger-Aliassime.

Just about Anyone else this year would surprise me, except Kyrgios who is just in a class by himself. With Fed waning, Nick is the most talented player on the tour, or maybe 2nd to Novak - can't compare their games. Also, altho not very likely to happen, if Shapovalov makes the quarters and then can lock in on the target, those rocket launchers he calls ground strokes could beat anyone's game. Who could beat him if his accuracy rose just 10-15 percent during a short hot streak? Only a determined, fit and grooved Djokovic, that's who (you may say you could say this about many players - that if they get really hot they could win a Slam. I think not. It almost never works that way). Shapo over hits, but if he finds a patch when he is in the zone, i don't think anybody can out hit him - and he has better net game than most, a good-enough and improving service, and now even a bit of touch.

Melbourne: Assuming and hoping there is a tournament, I say Tsi or Mdv for favorite but Novak might just bore us to death w his eighth championship. Of course i don't mean that Novak is boring, perish the thought, only starting to get a little boring how he dominates the AO.

Roland Garros - Thiem for slight favorite. Nadal 2nd. I may think he is about spent, but then Rafa will win his decimotercero. Stefanos and Sascha love the clay, so 3 and 5 seeds, respectively. And Djokovic is an historical top-10 or 12 clay player, so he is my 4th seed. I just think that the terra baute is going to be brutal on 33-year old legs, given the power game they play nowadays on the dirt. And, Novak seems to struggle at RG relative to eight clay M1000s, four at the Italian Open (on the other hand, two finals losses to Nadal, and nobody, not even Nadal, could have beat the Stanimal on June 7, 2015). And, Nole did finally get over the hump. IF Djokovic wins RG this season or next, that ends the GOAT debate in my view. I just don't think he can do it. If he gets a "light draw" first four rounds . . . ???

A Djokovic championship at the French would be a huge achievement. Yet a Dominic Thiem championship makes sense.


Wimbledon - all things being equal, the Crown should go to Novak if he is fit. Folks talk so much about how Nadal's way of playing is inordinately brutal on the body - what about Djokovic's so often grinding, defense-offense, chess-like approach and his superhuman splits on the dead run? The elbow may kick up. He occasionally (increasingly it seems) suffers a bit from fatigue. It is a game of margins. Tsi certainly seems to have the game and attitude for Wimbledon, but grass is very alien to him. He needs a couple of years. Kyrgios has game for it but we know it is doubtful he is a champion. Regarding Zv, unless he is in some kind of hot streak, i think Wimbledon is too daunting yet for him, psychologically. Outside chance for Fed. He can get to the quarters easily enough, maybe the semis easily enough. At that point, a few days of Indian Summer and a little bit of luck and its NINE championships at the King of tournaments. AA was 9-3 on grass last year but he is not ready. Guess should not forget Mdv but poor on grass so far and who knows how his peculiar style will jibe with lawn tennis. Possibly great, i just don't know tennis well enough to hazard a guess. Any ideas on that? As said, should go to Djokovic.

USO - Well, Mdv of course, as favorite. I see outside chance for Thiem. Nole in the running for sure. Tsi of course. Berrettini or Shapo, anyone?

ATP Finals - Last year in London. Thiem should be motivated and confident. If he makes top eight, Karen Khachanov is a beast indoors. The surface is medium-fast and indoors. Roger and Novak have both thrived at this venue. Sascha seems comfortable at the O2, with a title to prove it, and Stefanos took to the super stadium like it was his back yard. So, there are six plausible winners: Tsi, Thiem, Zv, Nole , Fed and Khachanov, if makes the top eight, which I think he might. And Mdv makes a seventh. Point: There is a greater combination of depth and sheer excellence than anytime since 2012-13.* The current young guns are not Dimitrovs, Nishikoris or Raonices. They are not a lost generation, overrated and either lacking the will of the champion or overly beseeched by minor and moderate injuries, or both. Injuries the up-and-coming youngsters may incur from time to time. But the players I have mentioned appear to have grit and heart to go along with their inter-galatic level of athleticism and technical virtuosity.

A Note: I guess you all saw that Juan Martin pulled out of the Aussie. Broken kneecaps do not take this long, usually. I feel sad not being able to mention him as a possible contender at Flushing Meadow, Tokyo or Turin in 2nd half of season. There may not be a glorious end to this hero's grand struggle.

Do I overrate anyone? Did i leave out anyone whose championship would not be a big upset? Lots of guys moving up. Anyone particularly impress any of you as possible Slamster in 2020? Thanks.


*2012 top eight were, in order: Djokovic, Federer , Murray, Nadal, Ferrer, Berdych, del Potro, Tsonga.

2013 top eight were, in order: Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer, Murray, del Potro, Berdych, Federer, Warwinka.

Nice post. Thx for the read.

I have a 'gut' feeling that Fedr makes history with 2020 being a 2-slams year for Fedr.

You're predicing a 1-2 slams year for Big3 in total, while I think it'll be a 2-slams year for Fedr. Both low odds. 2020 should be fun!
 

Fridge

Professional
the only real surprise threat I see for either Nadal or Djokovic would be shapovalov. Ever since he has gotten Youzhny in his box he has been playing with much more confidence.
 

Jonesy

Legend
the only real surprise threat I see for either Nadal or Djokovic would be shapovalov. Ever since he has gotten Youzhny in his box he has been playing with much more confidence.
What? Don't you remember Paris? Shapo would just ball bash his way to another loss. Guy can't keep the ball in when playing regular players.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
The draw obviously plays it's part.

But there's other factors too such as form, scheduling and luck.

If we base it on last year's seeding arrangement (top half 1, 4, 7 & 8 ) (bottom half 2, 3, 5 & 6)

We'd see Nadal with Theim, Zverev and Berrettini in his half with Novak having Federer, Tsitsipas and Medvedev in his half.

Wow, that would make @tennis_pro a happy boy wouldn't it?
 

AceSalvo

Legend
In the past 10 years, only Cilic, Stan and Murray have won slams aside from the big three. How can the tour be "extremely deep" under those circumstances? If the tour was really "extremely deep" then in 2019 the 4 slams would have panned out like this:

AO: Tsitsipas
FO: Rafa
Wimbledon: Shapo
USO: Med

Instead it was the same guys winning as always. The tour is anything but deep when nobody outside of the big 3 ever win majors. It's just a fact.

To add to this, take a look at the Next Gen players since 2015 that has done nothing to date at the slams.

Nishikori, Dimitrov, Raonic, Thiem (outside clay), Kyrgios, Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev. The rest of them are not even worth my time typing. LOL.

So much depth -of nothingness- right there.
 

Drob

Hall of Fame
Nice post. Thx for the read.

I have a 'gut' feeling that Fedr makes history with 2020 being a 2-slams year for Fedr.

You're predicing a 1-2 slams year for Big3 in total, while I think it'll be a 2-slams year for Fedr. Both low odds. 2020 should be fun!

Thanks. I am curious how you see two Slams for Roger. To me he has clearly fallen off. Not on outright ability, beauty, and his greater variety of offensive tactics than anyone, but on consistency. More unforced errors, much less ability to sustain the long rallies with the best hitters, and most especially, Djokovic. And I think Fed no longer relishes playing the five-set matches. He loves the game as much and is still the most gifted player on the tour. But he can't keep the pressure on for more than a set and a little.

I was at the 2018 WTF and I thought I saw Father Time finally tap him lightly on the shoulder. He should never have lost to the unimaginative Zverev. (He also lost his initial RR match for the first time in his YEC career, to Nishikori. He should never have lost that match - flat as a pancake). Then I saw him at Indian Wells last March. I saw the QF and Roger was playing perfect, effortless tennis. He played extremely well in the final (and in fact I was sort of rooting for the underdog, Thiem - like the guy). But as swell as Dominic played and as exciting as the match was, there just seemed a little missing from Roger's game.

The record indicates this also, I think.

2017: two slam champs and 18-1 slam record, champion at three of the four M1000s he entered, 54-5 record and seven titles.

2018, one Slam champs, one QF, one 4th Round. QF loss at Wimbledon to Anderson was truly strange. But Anderson at least was a top 10 player. The USO loss to John Millman was stranger still. As opposed to 3 titles in 4 M1000s entered, Roger was zero for five at M1000s. 50-10 record and four titles versus seven the year before.

2019: Zero for four at Slams. One final, one semifinal. One title in six M1000 events. 53-10 record, four titles. Not a bad year. Punctuated on each end by a loss to Stefanos, but that kid has really got it, so I don't see those loses as "crucial." First-half was quite good. We could talk and talk about how Roger lost the Wimbledon final. Second half had a few troubling loses: Rublev at Cincy; Dimitrov at Flushing Meadows (what the heck was that?); a decent but not particularly in-form Zverev as Shanghai.

This isn't 2013, marred by injury, to be followed by a superb comeback with a more creative approach to the game.

This isn't 2016, with a specific, remediable injury and the smart decision to end the season and practice and refine the game. That period led to a new, aggressive backhand and the almost fairly tale 2017 season.

The man is 38. Older than Tilden when Bill won his last Wimbledon. Older than Rosewall when he won the 1972 WCT finals. Assuming there even is an AO, do you think Roger can consistently duke it out in matches averaging close to three hours, some with court temperatures at 120 fahrenheit or more, quite possibly?

I am sure you do not envision Roger winning Roland Garros.

Wimbledon I can see him winning, and I would like to see that. But it would be a marvel and unprecedented in the history of men's tennis.

USO - Roger did poorly there in 2018 and 2019, and has made only one Final in his last 10 USOs.

Can he turn his USO maladies around? Yes, sure. But the competition is stiffer and Roger is not as reliable athletically. How could he be?

Could he play with real vigor and freshness at Melbourne after a mostly restful period since mid-November? Sure. The weather might cooperate as well. There also may be no tournament. I can see him going deep at Melbourne but I cannot see him winning the championship.

I hope my tone is not overly critical. I am genuinely curious as to how you see Federer winning two Slams out of four when he has made one final in the last five Slams he has played in the past 18 months approx. And now the competition is more fierce.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Well there is one less retirement happening at the AO this year then.
He's 30 now, this moment will likely be his career highlight:

giphy.gif
 

Yugram

Legend


Do you really think that? So far on this thread there seems like a consensus that we should be concentrating on Djokovic, Nadal and the "Maestro". One poster mentioned Medvedev.

I have been thinking differently about 2020. I think it is going to move in the other direction. But before I get to that, it appears that maybe you think Berrettini is perhaps the best of the young guns? If so, why? I may be underrating him.




My thinking is that The Holy Trinity will account for only one, maybe 2 Slams. I would also predict The Gold to Djokovic. Two or three Slams and ATP finals to the younger guys. This extension of career, or new longevity factor, is real but only goes so far. In history of men's game, only players to win real majors after 34 (Nadal's age), are Tilden, Rosewall and Federer. Can you think of anyone else? Each of these three moved lightly through the battle, almost like angels floating above the bitter earth. Rafa has already won his last Major, IMO. Age is still age. Rafa has defied the mileage and age and this courage will be an important part of his legacy. Federer is clearly over the hill but it is still conceivable he might win Wimbledon - i think not, but just possible. And by over the hill i don't mean irrelevant. You'd expect he'll manage to stay in top 8, barely.

Nole can be competitive in any of the four Slams, if not hurting or fatigued. Of the Slams, Wimbledon seems his best possibility. I predict the Gold Medal because he wants it so bad. I think that most of us see Olympic Gold as something on level of the ATP Finals, or Davis Cup from the 90s to 2018 - some posters say it is like one of the higher M1000s. But not Nole. I think i even have a 2016 quote where he puts it virtually on the level of the Slams. He has said the Gold Medal is his top priority this season. Novak will be mentally together this year, and who is a greater competitor than he?

I put Tsitsipas and Medvedev as most likely to win a Slam, along w Djokovic.

Next, pretty good chance: Dominic Thiem

Next - has most of the tools and would not be a huge surprise, but a bit of a surprise: Zverev.

Next: Fed and Rafa

Next: probably his first Slam comes in 2021: Auger-Aliassime.

Just about Anyone else this year would surprise me, except Kyrgios who is just in a class by himself. With Fed waning, Nick is the most talented player on the tour, or maybe 2nd to Novak - can't compare their games. Also, altho not very likely to happen, if Shapovalov makes the quarters and then can lock in on the target, those rocket launchers he calls ground strokes could beat anyone's game. Who could beat him if his accuracy rose just 10-15 percent during a short hot streak? Only a determined, fit and grooved Djokovic, that's who (you may say you could say this about many players - that if they get really hot they could win a Slam. I think not. It almost never works that way). Shapo over hits, but if he finds a patch when he is in the zone, i don't think anybody can out hit him - and he has better net game than most, a good-enough and improving service, and now even a bit of touch.

Melbourne: Assuming and hoping there is a tournament, I say Tsi or Mdv for favorite but Novak might just bore us to death w his eighth championship. Of course i don't mean that Novak is boring, perish the thought, only starting to get a little boring how he dominates the AO.

Roland Garros - Thiem for slight favorite. Nadal 2nd. I may think he is about spent, but then Rafa will win his decimotercero. Stefanos and Sascha love the clay, so 3 and 5 seeds, respectively. And Djokovic is an historical top-10 or 12 clay player, so he is my 4th seed. I just think that the terra baute is going to be brutal on 33-year old legs, given the power game they play nowadays on the dirt. And, Novak seems to struggle at RG relative to eight clay M1000s, four at the Italian Open (on the other hand, two finals losses to Nadal, and nobody, not even Nadal, could have beat the Stanimal on June 7, 2015). And, Nole did finally get over the hump. IF Djokovic wins RG this season or next, that ends the GOAT debate in my view. I just don't think he can do it. If he gets a "light draw" first four rounds . . . ???

A Djokovic championship at the French would be a huge achievement. Yet a Dominic Thiem championship makes sense.


Wimbledon - all things being equal, the Crown should go to Novak if he is fit. Folks talk so much about how Nadal's way of playing is inordinately brutal on the body - what about Djokovic's so often grinding, defense-offense, chess-like approach and his superhuman splits on the dead run? The elbow may kick up. He occasionally (increasingly it seems) suffers a bit from fatigue. It is a game of margins. Tsi certainly seems to have the game and attitude for Wimbledon, but grass is very alien to him. He needs a couple of years. Kyrgios has game for it but we know it is doubtful he is a champion. Regarding Zv, unless he is in some kind of hot streak, i think Wimbledon is too daunting yet for him, psychologically. Outside chance for Fed. He can get to the quarters easily enough, maybe the semis easily enough. At that point, a few days of Indian Summer and a little bit of luck and its NINE championships at the King of tournaments. AA was 9-3 on grass last year but he is not ready. Guess should not forget Mdv but poor on grass so far and who knows how his peculiar style will jibe with lawn tennis. Possibly great, i just don't know tennis well enough to hazard a guess. Any ideas on that? As said, should go to Djokovic.

USO - Well, Mdv of course, as favorite. I see outside chance for Thiem. Nole in the running for sure. Tsi of course. Berrettini or Shapo, anyone?

ATP Finals - Last year in London. Thiem should be motivated and confident. If he makes top eight, Karen Khachanov is a beast indoors. The surface is medium-fast and indoors. Roger and Novak have both thrived at this venue. Sascha seems comfortable at the O2, with a title to prove it, and Stefanos took to the super stadium like it was his back yard. So, there are six plausible winners: Tsi, Thiem, Zv, Nole , Fed and Khachanov, if makes the top eight, which I think he might. And Mdv makes a seventh. Point: There is a greater combination of depth and sheer excellence than anytime since 2012-13.* The current young guns are not Dimitrovs, Nishikoris or Raonices. They are not a lost generation, overrated and either lacking the will of the champion or overly beseeched by minor and moderate injuries, or both. Injuries the up-and-coming youngsters may incur from time to time. But the players I have mentioned appear to have grit and heart to go along with their inter-galatic level of athleticism and technical virtuosity.

A Note: I guess you all saw that Juan Martin pulled out of the Aussie. Broken kneecaps do not take this long, usually. I feel sad not being able to mention him as a possible contender at Flushing Meadow, Tokyo or Turin in 2nd half of season. There may not be a glorious end to this hero's grand struggle.

Do I overrate anyone? Did i leave out anyone whose championship would not be a big upset? Lots of guys moving up. Anyone particularly impress any of you as possible Slamster in 2020? Thanks.


*2012 top eight were, in order: Djokovic, Federer , Murray, Nadal, Ferrer, Berdych, del Potro, Tsonga.

2013 top eight were, in order: Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer, Murray, del Potro, Berdych, Federer, Warwinka.

Lol, watch out, buddy. Nadal is on pace for something special in 2020. If not NCYGS, then AO-RG combo or another Channel Slam at least. I don’t see any evidence of him stopping suddenly.
 

Kaznkul

Rookie
I'll believe it when I see it. Does anyone honestly believe that anyone besides one of the big 3 (primarily Rafa or Novak) will win the AO?
Agree. Can't see past Rafa or joker, but that is the logical reality we've come to expect. I'm done with it! So I'm going to start thinking like my 9 year old son, and like he's told me over and over, anyone can win..... It's not impossible..........

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk
 

oldmanfan

Legend
Thanks. I am curious how you see two Slams for Roger. To me he has clearly fallen off. Not on outright ability, beauty, and his greater variety of offensive tactics than anyone, but on consistency. More unforced errors, much less ability to sustain the long rallies with the best hitters, and most especially, Djokovic. And I think Fed no longer relishes playing the five-set matches. He loves the game as much and is still the most gifted player on the tour. But he can't keep the pressure on for more than a set and a little.

I was at the 2018 WTF and I thought I saw Father Time finally tap him lightly on the shoulder. He should never have lost to the unimaginative Zverev. (He also lost his initial RR match for the first time in his YEC career, to Nishikori. He should never have lost that match - flat as a pancake). Then I saw him at Indian Wells last March. I saw the QF and Roger was playing perfect, effortless tennis. He played extremely well in the final (and in fact I was sort of rooting for the underdog, Thiem - like the guy). But as swell as Dominic played and as exciting as the match was, there just seemed a little missing from Roger's game.

The record indicates this also, I think.

2017: two slam champs and 18-1 slam record, champion at three of the four M1000s he entered, 54-5 record and seven titles.

2018, one Slam champs, one QF, one 4th Round. QF loss at Wimbledon to Anderson was truly strange. But Anderson at least was a top 10 player. The USO loss to John Millman was stranger still. As opposed to 3 titles in 4 M1000s entered, Roger was zero for five at M1000s. 50-10 record and four titles versus seven the year before.

2019: Zero for four at Slams. One final, one semifinal. One title in six M1000 events. 53-10 record, four titles. Not a bad year. Punctuated on each end by a loss to Stefanos, but that kid has really got it, so I don't see those loses as "crucial." First-half was quite good. We could talk and talk about how Roger lost the Wimbledon final. Second half had a few troubling loses: Rublev at Cincy; Dimitrov at Flushing Meadows (what the heck was that?); a decent but not particularly in-form Zverev as Shanghai.

This isn't 2013, marred by injury, to be followed by a superb comeback with a more creative approach to the game.

This isn't 2016, with a specific, remediable injury and the smart decision to end the season and practice and refine the game. That period led to a new, aggressive backhand and the almost fairly tale 2017 season.

The man is 38. Older than Tilden when Bill won his last Wimbledon. Older than Rosewall when he won the 1972 WCT finals. Assuming there even is an AO, do you think Roger can consistently duke it out in matches averaging close to three hours, some with court temperatures at 120 fahrenheit or more, quite possibly?

I am sure you do not envision Roger winning Roland Garros.

Wimbledon I can see him winning, and I would like to see that. But it would be a marvel and unprecedented in the history of men's tennis.

USO - Roger did poorly there in 2018 and 2019, and has made only one Final in his last 10 USOs.

Can he turn his USO maladies around? Yes, sure. But the competition is stiffer and Roger is not as reliable athletically. How could he be?

Could he play with real vigor and freshness at Melbourne after a mostly restful period since mid-November? Sure. The weather might cooperate as well. There also may be no tournament. I can see him going deep at Melbourne but I cannot see him winning the championship.

I hope my tone is not overly critical. I am genuinely curious as to how you see Federer winning two Slams out of four when he has made one final in the last five Slams he has played in the past 18 months approx. And now the competition is more fierce.

2017:
As you said, Fedr was the best player. He just didn't play enough tournies to be YE#1.

2018:
It seems you may have forgotten that from set3 against Anderson at WB18 to the end of 2018, it was a wash bc Fedr had a hand injury since Stuttgart18, which became apparent since set3 (his FH disappeared completely for almost 3 sets). Since set3 against Anderson, he had basically no FH and no ROS. It's why he played like crap against Nishikori at WTF18. It was really bad. It was actually shocking Fedr made it to the finals to face Djokr at Cinci18. You can see it in his results too. It's the same reason he lost to Millman when he had chances to go 2-0 sets up, yet end up losing in 4, with 2 TBs lost. The hand injury finally recovered around Hopman Cup 2019, 6-7 months later, and as a result, he accumulated the most points thru Miami19 even AFTER he bombed out against a clutch Tsits in 4R AO19. Going into 2019, I thought it was the beginning of the end, and I was worried. I'm actually way more confident for Fedr going into 2020 in comparison, even though he's a year older.

2019:
He lost to Tsits at AO19, mainly bc Tsits was more clutch, winning 2/3 TBs against the greatest TB player in history, Fedr. It didn't help that Fedr went 0/12 on BPs, so the win wasn't a convincing one from Tsits. Fedr proved it a month later by comfortably beating him in straights in Dubai19 finals. That was the finals, when finalists are in form. Fedr 'should've' won IW19, but Thiem was just a tad more clutch and won with less opportunities. Many thought that loss would devastate him for Miami19, but after clutching a win against Albot, he breezed through the draw, crushing a good Anderson, then swaggered to the title beating a red-hot Shapo and a well-playing Isner, all in straights. He had accumulated the most points to date, even with Djokr winning AO19 and Nadl being the finalist. At this point, based on form, Fedr was the best player for the 1st 3 months.

I actually thought Fedr had a real shot to beat Nadl at RG19 SF bc Fedr entered the match in better form. But the bloody sandstorm ruined what would've been a great match, even if he ends up losing. Some on TTW thought I was delusional in thinking so, yet a month later, Fedr beat an even better-playing Nadl at WB19 SF, and then played much better than Djokr, but lost bc he was out-clutched by Djokr. The stats proved it bc Fedr won 14-15 more points in total. That's almost 4 games! I kept saying that I don't think Djokr has been as dominant as many thought since WB18, which many don't agree. Do recall that Djokr only won the last 2/3 Fedovic matches bc he won 5 TBs in a row. Djokr is likely the greatest returner in history, yet he can't win a set against a 37/38 year old by breaking him... That doesn't seem 'dominant' to me. So going into their WTF19 RR match, I thought Fedr had decent chances to win, which many scoffed at. What ensued was an easy with for Fedr, in straights.

This leads to why I think 2020 will be a very successful year for Fedr. It's just a hunch, but it's a hunch based on great play from Fedr in 2019, marred by missed opportunities (IW19, RG19 (sandstorm), WB19, USO19 (stiff neck)).
 

Yugram

Legend
This leads to why I think 2020 will be a very successful year for Fedr. It's just a hunch, but it's a hunch based on great play from Fedr in 2019, marred by missed opportunities (IW19, RG19 (sandstorm), WB19, USO19 (stiff neck)).
Roger Federer — The Biggest Moral Winner of All Time. 2nd moral CYGS in a row incoming in 2020?
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Like most I believe this year's AO is more than likely going to be won by either Nadal or Djokovic, but the tour is extremely deep right now and there are some extremely threatening players that could stand in Nadal and Djokovic's way. There are also many pushovers in the same seed range as the threats so the difficulty of the draw could differ drastically based on luck (or maybe not :censored:). Here's a breakdown of the matchups that could happen for Nadal Djokovic:
3R:
Threats: Raonic, Tsonga, Kyrgios
Pushovers: Coric, Pella, Basilashvili
4R:
Threats: Shapovalov, Wawrinka
Pushovers: Nishikori
QF:
Threats: Tsitsipas, Medvedev
Pushovers: Zverev, Berretini
SF:
Title Contender: Federer
Probably not making it this far: Thiem

The players ranked from 7-12 are all really beatable but the group from 13-21 (plus Rublev) is riddled with people with big games who can take on the best. Not to mention the disparity between getting the 5th or 6th seed in the quarters vs 7 and 8. The most obvious difference is getting a GOAT candidate vs Thiem on a low bouncing medium fast hard court. The draw could be ridiculously easy or extremely challenging for Nadal or Djokovic and while I believe Nadal is mostly draw-proof, he isn't totally because he needs someone else to take out Djokovic for him so he needs some draw luck on that.


Something always keeps Rafa from winning the AO. No matter how good his form is, I have to see it to believe it.
 

The Guru

Legend
@The Guru no faith in Fedr?
I think he's probably the 3rd or 4th favorite, but I don't think his odds are nearly as good as Djokodal. Fed is gonna need a good draw and efficient 3 set wins to be able to put together the goods in the second week. It's not impossible but it's highly unlikely imo. I'd take Djokodal over the field with absolutely no hesitation.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
It can indeed be decisive. Healthy or not, you could definitely tell Djokovic wasn’t winning USO with Wawrinka-Medvedev-Federer-Nadal draw.

I expect him to have a draw of similar fashion at AO as tournament director Craig Tiley is Federer’s puppet.
I wonder if the Australians are still enarmoured of Federer as he has shown them his true colours by snubbing the ATP Cup because he doesn’t like it up-staging his Laver Cup.

It’s not even noticeable that Fedr is not at the ATP Cup. He is not conspicuous by his absence.
 
The key is the draw for the quarter finals. Earlier rounds will be fairly irrelevant. Who among the big three get tsits and med is the big draw question. I see them as about equally threatening to nadal and joker. If Federer can avoid both he might have an outside chance to get to the final or even win. The biggest joke would be if thiem and fed draw med and tsits.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
You certainly seem to notice it though, clayqueen as you do everything else that Federer does. Some really weird obsession you have. :p
Of course everyone knows he's not there but that has no impact on the tournament. I've not heard anyone say they miss him.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Because nobody cares about the ATP Cup. They want it to mean something but we've already got Davis Cup which has historical significance.
I care. Are you saying that the stands are empty because no one cares about it?

Federer doesn't even support DC anymore.
 

Sambuccashake

Hall of Fame
As per usual, Nadal will get an actual bye followed by at least 2 virtual byes. (Not talking about back to back matches with Pierre Hugues Herbert for those of you who are familiar with his less than favorable nickname)
Qualifier, Bottom barrel 128 ranked player/Wildcard (Tomic). Something like this.

So the interesting part is more how bad it gets for Djokovic and if his elbow allows for full flight tennis.

Regarding the other Big 3 member, I don't think Fed has it in him anymore. #40-15 :cry:
 
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