liftordie
Hall of Fame
But Armour Pro has a really strong coating. Much stronger than the coating of VS Touch or Tonic. And maybe that coating could give more durability on clay, no? And maybe better snapback too with poly crosses.
The gut/poly thread
- Thread starter SpinToWin
- Start date
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
What is a stronger coating, pray tell? Are you saying it because you know or because it’s advertised that way?
That aside, I recall most people disliked the string when they tried it.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
OK... So for you what is the best gut/poly setup on clay?
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Depends on your priorities. For durability I’d take Tonic + Longevity. That’s a thick gut, though, which will add noticeable mass to the hoop, at least IME. It also won’t have the feel and liveliness of thinner guts.OK... So for you what is the best gut/poly setup on clay?
liftordie
Hall of Fame
How would you estimate the life of the combo Tonic Ball Feel 16/Max Power Rough 18 in a Pure Aero on clay? My level is 4.0/4.5 and I break a multi 16g in 7/10hours. I play like 6hours a week or more. I play from baseline with maximum spin I can generate.
Thank you
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Hard to say. The pure aero ain’t a string friendly frame though.
NRMM
Semi-Pro
Guys, need your advise please. I've been playing really well for the past few months after testing a few variations on wilson blade, strings (always poly), etc So in summary, I'm really happy with the current racquet and it setup.. it's wilson blade 104 (last model), it has been customised with some lead tape at 9 and 3 and it's now: strung wt: 320 sw: 337 and bp: 34 on Luxilon 4G Soft 51/54. I've been bringing the tension down for the past 2/3 re-strings.
Now.. last week, after some intense doubles, by the end of the match (2 hours roughly) my elbow was hurting, not excruciating, just sore and persistent mild pain. The next day, despite feeling better, I played doubles and I could feel it coming back... it only hursts when serving, when doing the twist right after hitting the ball. I play double hand both swings and I don't experience pain when hitting any other shots but serve or smash. So the plan is to stop 1 week, doing stretching and put some kinetic tape on; I'm also happy to try a softer string on mains (always had it in the back of my mind anyway...).
Which gut would you recommend, which setup, and tension? I really love my existing setup, I love the 4g soft.. I always felt more confident with stiff muted strings.. what are your thoughts?
Now.. last week, after some intense doubles, by the end of the match (2 hours roughly) my elbow was hurting, not excruciating, just sore and persistent mild pain. The next day, despite feeling better, I played doubles and I could feel it coming back... it only hursts when serving, when doing the twist right after hitting the ball. I play double hand both swings and I don't experience pain when hitting any other shots but serve or smash. So the plan is to stop 1 week, doing stretching and put some kinetic tape on; I'm also happy to try a softer string on mains (always had it in the back of my mind anyway...).
Which gut would you recommend, which setup, and tension? I really love my existing setup, I love the 4g soft.. I always felt more confident with stiff muted strings.. what are your thoughts?
Guys I need your input on this,,, Im a long time poly user ( usual set up head tgk 238.2 and rf rf97 16x19 solinco hyper g g17 @47lbs) and have decided to try nat gut/poly combo for the first time. I ordered several sets of klip legend g15l and some lux alu rough g16 for starters. I string myself using a drop weight machine. Right now, Im more inclined to pursue the gut mains/ poly cross set up.
My question are.
1. Any special tecqniques that can help me string the nat gut safely?
2. Suggested string tension?
3. Im planning on using elastocross to extend the life of the gut. But I worry it might negate the snapback that im looking for in the gutmains/polycross set up. Any opinion about this?
Thanks....
My question are.
1. Any special tecqniques that can help me string the nat gut safely?
2. Suggested string tension?
3. Im planning on using elastocross to extend the life of the gut. But I worry it might negate the snapback that im looking for in the gutmains/polycross set up. Any opinion about this?
Thanks....
djNEiGht
Legend
My first suggestion is to get a smooth poly versus the alu rough. IMO, some type of string saver will benefit more than hurt it just for the fact of longer string life. As for tension...this is what I have done in my 18x20 beds
Full bed 1.25 poly 45-48# depending on the stiffness of the string or time of the year. Synthetic/Multifilament 50-55#. Gut/Poly 55# main with 50-52# cross.
Good luck
stephenclown
Professional
Alu rough has great feel in a gut mains hybrid. The friction of the string is better than standard alu as well and its not a shaped string so durability shouldnt be an issue. If federer gets more than an hour out of it in practice most people should get 10+ in a normal frame without any issues.
Alu rough is very lightly textured in the scheme of things and doesn't create noticeably added stress to the gut in my experience. Elastocross also greatly extend the gut life and sliding as well. They arent like wilson stringsavers which have negative impacts, just dont put too many in or it will feel boardy.
The only reason not to use alu rough in the cross to natural gut consistently is due to the lifespan of alu. It drops tension and gets a bit harsh after a while but still better than some other strings. It is the best feeling cross I have used by far and maintains that feel for an adequate amount of time. Movement is no issue with this combo nor is durability.
Feel is subjective but PTP felt vague, Revolve missing punch and a little firm, cyclone close to feel but chewed mains faster, max power rough close although more like old alu rough. RS Lyon was probably the closest to Alu Rough but lower power and a little less feel but extremely fun. Yet to try HEAD strings due to the exorbitant price for sets but may be worth a shot.
Next I aim to try Max Power normal, HEAD hawk and probably hyper g.
Overall I would advise anyone to try gut rough at least once, they might not notice the loss in playability depending on their level and get months out of a set if they hit with less power and more flat.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
So you want a muted gut... I find Pacific Tough Gut has a more plush feel, whereas Tonic + has a relatively crisper feel.
You can try 4G soft in the crosses. Keep the tension of 4G soft where it is and string the gut in the mains 4-5 lbs higher.
Thanks for the suggestion. My choice in strings are quite limited costwise. Klip is one of the most affordable guts out there and I bought some really cheap sets of alu rough ($10 usd) from a friend. Im basically stuck to what this.
I have not tried alu rough before but I have heard that it doesnt hold tension well. So I planned to have it pre stretch and hope that the gut mains should make the whole set up playable till it breaks. My gripe on a full bed of poly is that it loses playability and tension faster than I break them( hyper g included). Factoring that I feel the need to string them frequently ( about once in 2 weeks of playing) a gut poly hybrid should in theory last longer.
dsb
Rookie
Have you tried ALU Power Soft? I found that it plays and feels about the same as rough, but for me it holds tension better.
stephenclown
Professional
NRMM
Semi-Pro
@SpinToWin thanks, some guys suggested I go full bed of syn gut and take poly completely out of my system to prevent TE to go worse (which isn't at the moment as I'm resting totally). In your view, would it be risky to go hybrid ie 4g Soft crosses at let's say 50 and PSGO on mains at 55 ? Or shall I just go full bed on PSGO for now? I'm really apprehensive of how big the change it will be, going from 4g soft full bed to PSGO full bed... I shouldn't use natural gut because I'll kill the gut in 1 session... usually damp/humid, specially now... cheers
@Envy what tension would you recommend ?
I cant offer a reliable answer... the klip natural gut that ive ordered are still being shipped overseas so at the moment I have no experience using nat gut first hand. Haha
In my opinion though, pure aero is probably one of the most powerful 100 sqinch racquet ive ever used... so if i could take a guess you have to string the gut around 60lbs to tame the power.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
OK!
To tame the power I have Max Power Rough as crosses.
I will try 53/49.
To obtain maximum snap back I highly recommend SMOOTH Poly crosses. They are more slippery.
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liftordie
Hall of Fame
Max Power Rough is perfect as crosses with gut. Maximum slippery. It is not a shaped poly. Test it.
Traffic
Hall of Fame
Have you tested this setup yet?Max Power Rough is perfect as crosses with gut. Maximum slippery. It is not a shaped poly. Test it.
I've used Max Power Rough in a hybrid with Sgut. It is super textured. Probably one of the roughest strings I've ever laced my racquet with. I was actually glad I didn't gel with it as I figured I'd have to change my grommets out periodically from the burns from the rough string.
Gut itself is very textured. I would put it up there close to textured poly only it is not as stiff.
While MPR is textured, it does feel pretty slipper against another string. But since the gut will be "sawing" back and forth on the MPR, I wonder how long gut will last without getting severely notched.
I'd be curious at how your tensions work out. It's true that MPR is a low powered poly, gut @ 53# is pretty powerful.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
I will test it next week. But I'm pretty confident about the association of MPR17 and VST16.
I will try at 55/49 in my PA.
Voytek Bunia
Rookie
I break multi/poly in about 10 hours.
i also play with vs touch/rpm blast that lasts me about 30 hours.
Played my first singles match last night with my new (weighted up for more plow) Prince Phantom Pro 100. Strung it up with Babolat Tonic Ball Feel mains @ 40 and Gosen G-Tour 3 poly crosses @ 25. Was going for a maximum comfort angle here with still lots of spin/performance and durability. It took a bit to get used to the power at the lower tension, but once I did and was consistently brushing up hard on the ball, I was getting pretty good control, very good spin, and very good comfort for my sensitive elbow. Not as good control as with full poly, and didn't come by the spin quite as easily as with full poly, but the comfort was much better. Kick 2nd serves were really good.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I would not recommend blending a poly with a multi. It’s just a very bad marriage. First, the multi will shred quickly…it can’t stand up to the stiffness of a poly, much less a profiled poly. Most importantly the multi does not support the poly well enough and results in subpar play and longevity of the setup. Find a soft solid core Poly or perhaps a good synthetic gut instead for your hybrid.
If using a poly/soft solid core hybrid the poly would go into the mains. Reverse does not work so well. If using a poly in the cross the best partner is a natural gut main if you are not using a full poly setup.
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Voytek Bunia
Rookie
Yeah I’ve been experimenting different setups this year. I like the control of the multi/poly but it’s too muted for me.
What’s a good syn gut to try. Something lively.
djNEiGht
Legend
Synthetics are pretty cheap compared to other strings so it will be easier on your pocket to experiment. IIRC Volkl Classic SG & Gosen OG Sheep is crisp and has a slick coating. Forten Sweet and Prince w durafl are softer and have a nice feel. There is also a Wilson SG that is fairly cheep in cost but I am drawing a blank on the name.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Gosen OG Sheep is hard to beat for the money and a great place to start.
My favorite for hybrids however is LTEC Flex. Feels very close to gut and made for Cross string purposes only.
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liftordie
Hall of Fame
So why are you using Kirschbaum Evolution as crosses?
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Because I switch from SynGut to Natural Gut. In doing so, I moved the gut to the main strings to improve feel and playability and moved the poly (Kirschbaum) to the crosses.
Last edited:
liftordie
Hall of Fame
L-tec Flex is a poly not sgut.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Nope. LTEC Flex is a synthetic gut.
From TW website:
L-Tec offers a new concept in synthetic string design, specifically created to perform as a hybrid for optimum customization and performance. L-Tec string is specifically designed to be strung at 52lb or less. With its exceptional power, comfort, and feel, L-Tec Premium Flex Hybrid is the perfect cross string.
The L-Tec Premium Flex Hybrid enhances performance with its ability to work in unison with the mains.
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liftordie
Hall of Fame
OK there is a mistake on twe website in the description.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Gut/ poly seem to be the best string setup of any setup. but how do you circumvent the problem of poly going dead so much faster than gut ?? do you just leave it in there and keep playing ?? I had this problem in league matches. I had Babolat Tonic gut and solinco hyper G. Great setup, gave enhanced spin and added power, plus enhanced control which was surprising. but then after about 6 hours play hyper G started going dead and became stiff and lost all the great qualities of this hybrid setup. It was very frustrating, lost control, then power. had to cut it out.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
That is the magic of Max Power! It stay alive lot longer than other poly. And tame perfectly the liveliness of the gut!
What I ask is how many hours of play before the VS Touch 16 break?? On clay and I'm 4.0/4.5 player with lot of spin and slice.
Thanks!!
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Kirschbaum max power, right ? they make great strings overall, it's a great german company, every bit as good as luxilon, I think. but I was told max power wasn't as good for spin potential as Hyper G is. is this correct ?That is the magic of Max Power! It stay alive lot longer than other poly. And tame perfectly the liveliness of the gut!
What I ask is how many hours of play before the VS Touch 16 break?? On clay and I'm 4.0/4.5 player with lot of spin and slice.
Thanks!!
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
That is the magic of Max Power! It stay alive lot longer than other poly. And tame perfectly the liveliness of the gut!
What I ask is how many hours of play before the VS Touch 16 break?? On clay and I'm 4.0/4.5 player with lot of spin and slice.
Thanks!!
MaxPower is pre-stretched from the factory.
Essentially it is "dead" poly, so it doesn't lose as much tension over time as other polys.
That's why it's popular as a cross in a gut hybrid. It makes longer life of the stringbed, since poly usually goes dead faster than gut. With MaxPower, the poly lasts longer, so you can play longer with the gut/poly hybrid.
Mine play well for ~15-20 hours.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
Thanks!!!!
15-20 hours... WOW!!!!!!! What is your level?? Are you a spin player?? And do you play on clay?? Thanks!!
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Thanks!!!!
15-20 hours... WOW!!!!!!! What is your level?? Are spin player?? And do you play on clay?? Thanks!!
Hard court.
I play against guys 4.5-5.0. My strokes are medium spin/pace, I'm more of a touch player/counterpuncher.
I like 1.30 Pacific Tough Gut as the gut main, it has the longest life of any gut that I have tried, the coating helps resist sawing by the poly crosses.
YMMV.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
What about max power rough ? does it have same qualities but more spin ? I got so used to hyper G with its max spin shape and decent power level. I am not sure if I can go down that much on power. Max power got one of the lowest power score of all polys. I wonder max power rough has little bit more power and spin ?
liftordie
Hall of Fame
I will use Max Power Rough 17, yes. It is perfect as crosses with gut. Really perfect. Just read everywhere..... MPR is DA BEST with gut.
I will first try VS Touch 1.30. I'm 4.0-4.5 and I play with lot of spin on clay with Pure Aero, do you think I can expect 15hours of play before VS break??
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
For me, VS doesn't hold up as well as Tough Gut. YMMV.
You'll just have to give it a try to see what you think...
liftordie
Hall of Fame
I will but I hope to keep it for minimum 10 hours...... Will see.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
you sound like you are extremely smart and know all things. I will try the max power rough 18 g. and see I can make as much spin as Hyper G.I will use Max Power Rough 17, yes. It is perfect as crosses with gut. Really perfect. Just read everywhere..... MPR is DA BEST with gut.
I will first try VS Touch 1.30. I'm 4.0-4.5 and I play with lot of spin on clay with Pure Aero, do you think I can expect 15hours of play before VS break??
liftordie
Hall of Fame
You don't make spin with cross string... Cross string is important for control and durability and snapback (who will increase spin)...
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Whatever you use in the mains will dictate 80% of the characteristic of the string bed. Whatever you are use to, put that in the mains. If you are a string breaker, sync in the crosses. Naturally you can always flip the configuration if the first pass doesn't quite work for you.
Tension is subjective but would go a tad on higher side for the sync to minimize string movement and throttle back the power a bit. It should still be much more arm friendly than a full bed of polyester.
The poly you use, depending on its stiffness can and should be strung lower (10% of the other string being used). I would highly suggest a round SMOOTH copoly as they will allow the other string to slide over it more easily and extend the life of the other string.
Also I have posted this before...
http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2015/07/15_nylon_vs_poly.html
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Tension is subjective but would go a tad on higher side for the sync to minimize string movement and throttle back the power a bit. It should still be much more arm friendly than a full bed of polyester.
The poly you use, depending on its stiffness can and should be strung lower (10% of the other string being used). I would highly suggest a round SMOOTH copoly as they will allow the other string to slide over it more easily and extend the life of the other string.
Also I have posted this before...
http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2015/07/15_nylon_vs_poly.html
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tennisbike
Professional
Cut out the cross only and restring the cross.
