Tsitsipas

[Thedesertfox]

What the hell just happened? One of the best clay players in the current era was upset by 19 y.o. Rune.
To be honest I have never seen Tsitsipas play so badly on clay . His BH was broke beyond fixing , his FH did not work too. And how did he manage to hit so many Unclean shots?
Sure Rune played good, but Tsitsipas was horrible in this match.
Your opinions?
PS: who is most likely to reach the final from the bottom half now, when Tsitsipas is out

 

[Siewi]

Tsitsi never fails to wonder me... Hard to predict who has a better shot of reaching the final on that side of the draw now. I would say probably Meddy or Ruud.

 

[darthrafa]

defeated by one playing better today
he plays not badly but just another one is better

 

[Thedesertfox]

Tsitsi never fails to wonder me... Hard to predict who has a better shot of reaching the final on that side of the draw now. I would say probably Meddy or Ruud.

I would say Sinner or Ruud.

 

[Phoenix*]

He overplayed.

 

[Bambooman]

Tsitsipas was scarred by multiple Alcaraz defeats and he's realizing that his generation may have missed their chance to the new young guns.

The "old" next gen is now the filler between the new guys and the old warhorses who aren't going away.

 

[merwy]

Tsitsipas is a very fragile player. Can play terrible on bad days. Shaky backhand and forehand. Honestly I'm surprised he does as well as he does. Rune is a solid clay player but still as a the finalist of last year's RG you should beat him.

 

[Thedesertfox]

Tsitsipas was scarred by multiple Alcaraz defeats and he's realizing that his generation may have missed their chance to the new young guns.

The "old" next gen is now the filler between the new guys and the old warhorses who aren't going away.

Scared? Well he won MC, reached semis in Madrid and was runner up in Madrid. That is pretty good for someone who is "scared". But it is possible that Alcaraz got inside his head. Rafa did the same to Roger. I am convinced that had Roger converted 2 match points in Rome 06 against Rafa, he would have won FO as well

 

[BeatlesFan]

What the hell just happened?

He lost to the better player, that's what happened. Holger is likely a future ATG, the Greek is a placeholder.

 

[Bambooman]

He's scared when playing the new kids.

 

[Thedesertfox]

Tsitsipas is a very fragile player. Can play terrible on bad days. Shaky backhand and forehand. Honestly I'm surprised he does as well as he does. Rune is a solid clay player but still as a the finalist of last year's RG you should beat him.

Forehand is good, one of the best IMO. At least on his day. But his BH is average at best. Moonballing slow crosscourt BH. No pace, power, speed nor placement.

 

[zuluzazu]

Djokovic sucked out his soul last year and he has never been the same

 

[Visionary]

What the hell just happened?

Let him sleep. We've got about 10 fine players coming into the top. As soon as Rafa and Novak are gone, the new blood'll make those big tournaments more colorful. Good to see that we don't just have the same players showing up anymore. Rune's cool and I bet he'll soon join Alcaraz, FAA, Ruud, Sinner, Rublev, Korda etc. Tsitsi, Zverev and Meddy will have to share their glory more often than they think. We won't have such a number of slams in a couple guys' pockets anymore

 

[Thedesertfox]

He lost to the better player, that's what happened. Holger is likely a future ATG, the Greek is a placeholder.

Pretty good placeholder. But yeah, he should not have lost

 

[rUDin 21]

Tsitsipas was scarred by multiple Alcaraz defeats and he's realizing that his generation may have missed their chance to the new young guns.

The "old" next gen is now the filler between the new guys and the old warhorses who aren't going away.

What is exactly a gen?Five year span or something more arbitrary?
Also who are the new "guns"?
Alcaraz and as of today Rune and that's it?

 

[Thedesertfox]

What is exactly a gen?Five year span or something more arbitrary?
Also who are the new "guns"?
Alcaraz and as of today Rune and that's it?

Well IMO the news guns are Sinner, Rune, maybe Auger, Alcaraz.

 

[ChaelAZ]

What the hell just happened?

Rune played much better and more confidently.

 

[Thedesertfox]

One more thing. Tsitsi could not capitalize on a decent draw. This could defeat could shake with his confidence to the core. Just saying.
He needs to hire some good coach. Id go with Norman.

 

[Hitman]

Such a golden chance here and he couldn't even make the quarters...

 

[Aabye5]

That's what you deserve! Rigging the draw like this for Mouratoglou

 

[rUDin 21]

Well IMO the news guns are Sinner, Rune, maybe Auger, Alcaraz.

I'm guessing they're all under 23.
I can get behind that

 

[Hamnavoe]

He's lost a lot of confidence on his forehand since the string change and doesn't dictate with it like he used to.

Since his best shot isn't as potent as it was he's resorted to passive trading, and hoping the opponent beats himself. This has yielded results against Johnny Mug over the course of the clay season but against a guy like Rune, who was aggressive and took control of the points, Tsitsipas was exposed as a second-rate competitor in the grinding department.

His level also tends to fluctuate heavily depending on how many first serves he's making. His second serve won % is down 4% from last year, and hold % overall is down 6%.

It's time for him to go back to the drawing board. I don't see any point in turning up for Wimbledon with no points at stake and taking another early defeat. He needs to take time to find his forehand again. A proper coach who can teach him how to slice and hit flat backhands wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[Thedesertfox]

He's lost a lot of confidence on his forehand since the string change and doesn't dictate with it like he used to.

Since his best shot isn't as potent as it was he's resorted to passive trading, and hoping the opponent beats himself. This has yielded results against Johnny Mug over the course of the clay season but against a guy like Rune, who was aggressive and took control of the points, Tsitsipas was exposed as a second-rate competitor in the grinding department.

His level also tends to fluctuate heavily depending on how many first serves he's making. His second serve won % is down 4% from last year, and hold % overall is down 6%.

It's time for him to go back to the drawing board. I don't see any point in turning up for Wimbledon with no points at stake and taking another early defeat. He needs to take time to find his forehand again. A proper coach who can teach him how to slice and hit flat backhands wouldn't go amiss either.

Johny Mug? Come on speak english

 

[Rattie]

Tsitsipa hasn’t been playing his best the entire tournament from round 1 onwards, so it’s not a huge surprise he lost today, although credit to Rune for a great run and win to reach the QFs.

 

[Zoid]

Tsitsipas has holes in his game. Don't get fooled by media hype.

1) his backhand is a liability. It's never going to be the shield it needs to be for top players until he fixes his slice. As I tweeted and retweeted during this match

2) Falls left on serve exposing the deuce side.

3) i wonder if the switch to gut/poly this year blunted his spin potential. His strokes looked weaker this year. Just my eye observation. Anyone with data on speed/spin rates from this year compared to last?


tsitsipas will never reach a high level without a great backhand slice.

 

[Thedesertfox]

Tsitsipas has holes in his game. Don't get fooled by media hype.

1) his backhand is a liability. It's never going to be the shield it needs to be for top players until he fixes his slice. As I tweeted and retweeted during this match

2) Falls left on return, exposing the deuce side.

3) i wonder if the switch to gut/poly this year blunted his spin potential. His strokes looked weaker this year. Just my eye observation. Anyone with data on speed/spin rates from this year compared to last?


tsitsipas will never reach a high level without a great backhand slice.

He uses gut and poly? What did he use before the switch

 

[Zoid]

He uses gut and poly? What did he use before the switch

All poly

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Bum should just retire. He's been a lost cause for a year now. From dominating clay last year until the blown RG finals, to losing to toddlers. Its clear you don't want to be playing tennis, so get the hell off the court and take up your little poetry. You're an embarrasment like the rest of your era

 

[TheNachoMan]

Rune will win 14 RGs.

 

[Thedesertfox]

Bum should just retire. He's been a lost cause for a year now. From dominating clay last year until the blown RG finals, to losing to toddlers. Its clear you don't want to be playing tennis, so get the hell off the court and take up your little poetry. You're an embarrasment like the rest of your era

F.. off troll

 

[TennisLurker]

Tsitsipas has a one handed backhand but he doesn't have:
-a good fast crosscourt backhand for backhand to backhand rallies, like Kuerten or Gaudio or Wawrinka, his crosscourt backhand is slow and loopy
-a good slice backhand
-a good slice chip return

It's technical issues what makes him not great

 

[Jonas78]

He was always overrated, NextGen starting to look like LostGen.

Help me Alcaraz, youre my only hope...

 

[Bambooman]

What is exactly a gen?Five year span or something more arbitrary?
Also who are the new "guns"?
Alcaraz and as of today Rune and that's it?

Nobody seems able to agree and it is somewhat arbitrary. A lot seems to now depend on how on a career can feasibly last.
I think a new generation does transition to the one ahead of it after a certain point.

Sinner for example is moving into the same one as Tsitsipas et al.

For now Alcaraz and Rune are separate and unique but from time to time greatness arrives in pairs, even if they develop at slightly different rates. See Djokovic and Nadal.

 

[Thedesertfox]

He was always overrated, NextGen starting to look like LostGen.

Help me Alcaraz, youre my only hope...

AND Sinner , maybe Auger if he can remain consistent.

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

Virgin Greek God vs Chad Viking, it is what it is

 

[TheNachoMan]

Virgin Greek God vs Chad Viking, it is what it is

Sissypas would be a eunuch in ancient Greek times.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Definitely not Ruud.

 

[Thedesertfox]

And one more thing, IMO people underrate Sinner. Sure he is not as good as Alcaraz, nobody has been since Nadal at such a young age, but he has potential, great movement, excellent groundies...

 

[Jonas78]

What is exactly a gen?Five year span or something more arbitrary?
Also who are the new "guns"?
Alcaraz and as of today Rune and that's it?

Its not only about birth year, but also tennis age. NextGen for me is Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Rublev, Shapovalov. LostGen was Dimitrov, Raonic, Goffin, Nishikori etc. Thiem was somewhere in between for me. BabyGen is Sinner, Alcaraz, FAA, etc.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Its not only about birth year, but also tennis age. NextGen for me is Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Rublev, Shapovalov. LostGen was Dimitrov, Raonic, Goffin, Nishikori etc. Thiem was somewhere in between for me. BabyGen is Sinner, Alcaraz, FAA, etc.

And there comes a point when people run out of excuses for them. Next gen should be the top guys right now as they have 3-6 more years experience then the babies. . Teenagers shouldn't nbe dominating. Nor should the 35-50 year olds. . It should be the guys in their early-mid 20s right now. Tstsipas/Zverev/Med should be the guys on top. Yet its the geriatrics and teenagers winning everything. Something is way off with this picture

 

[Jonas78]

Definitely not Ruud.

Unfortunately not. Best scenario he ends up with a Ferrer like career.

 

[Thedesertfox]

Its not only about birth year, but also tennis age. NextGen for me is Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Rublev, Shapovalov. LostGen was Dimitrov, Raonic, Goffin, Nishikori etc. Thiem was somewhere in between for me. BabyGen is Sinner, Alcaraz, FAA, etc.

Lost gen Raonic and Nishikori?
Raonic's latter part of his career was destroyed by injuries.
Thiem was a great player but when he won a slam all went downhill for him

 

[Thedesertfox]

Unfortunately not. Best scenario he ends up with a Ferrer like career.
[/QUOTE/
Pretty good career. World number 3. Grand slam runner up. WTF runner up. 26 titles to his name

 

[Jonas78]

And there comes a point when people run out of excuses for them. Next gen should be the top guys right now as they have 3-5 more years experience then the babies. . Teenagers shouldn't nbe dominating. Nor should the 35-50 year olds. . It should be the guys in their early-mid 20s right now. Tstsipas/Zverev/Med should be the guys on top. Yet its the geriatrics and teenagers winning everything. Something is way off with this picture

Thats why we need Alcaraz. He could be the one making all the excuses for the this getriatric tour look ridiculous. Like "A teenager will never win a grand slam again, the tour has become too physical". Lets admit it, watching him is like watching something we havent seen sinse Djokovic. This is what ATG potential look like.

 

[Aabye5]

Well IMO the news guns are Sinner, Rune, maybe Auger, Alcaraz.

And Korda

 

[14OuncesStrung]

I'm sad for Stefanos....

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Thats why we need Alcaraz. He could be the one making all the excuses for the this getriatric tour look ridiculous. Like "A teenager will never win a grand slam again, the tour has become too physical". Lets admit it, watching him is like watching something we havent seen sinse Djokovic. This is what ATG potential look like.

Generally teenagers use to win slams when the previous eras were at the end of thir primes on their last legs etc (Sampras at the US Open, Chang at the French etc) . It was never an entire gen was glossed over, they won nothing then the teenagers had to pick up the slack for the 22-25 years old. Its weird

 

[travlerajm]

What the hell just happened? One of the best clay players in the current era was upset by 19 y.o. Rune.
To be honest I have never seen Tsitsipas play so badly on clay . His BH was broke beyond fixing , his FH did not work too. And how did he manage to hit so many Unclean shots?
Sure Rune played good, but Tsitsipas was horrible in this match.
Your opinions?
PS: who is most likely to reach the final from the bottom half now, when Tsitsipas is out

Tsitsipas changed his setup after RG 21, and it lowered his level.

Tsitsipas’ odds are quite overrated

This early exit was pretty easy call (my comments are from the odds thread).

 

[mike danny]

Its not only about birth year, but also tennis age. NextGen for me is Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Rublev, Shapovalov. LostGen was Dimitrov, Raonic, Goffin, Nishikori etc. Thiem was somewhere in between for me. BabyGen is Sinner, Alcaraz, FAA, etc.

To me the Next Gen is anyone from Medvedev to Shapovalov (1996-1999).

2000-2003 is the new gen with FAA, Sinner, Alcaraz, Rune and Korda.

 

[Jonas78]

Lost gen Raonic and Nishikori?
Raonic's latter part of his career was destroyed by injuries.
Thiem was a great player but when he won a slam all went downhill for him

Thiem was ok, he was never ATG potential. In my opinion tier one of LostGen was weaker than tier two in many other generations.