Uncle Toni speaks out against new female DC captain.

F

Federer302

Guest
http://t.co/2X4CSkTP8E



"It's a problem.There's a lot of proximity in the dressing room and it's not proper that there should be a woman there. Furthermore, she's someone who hasn't been very connected to men's tennis. I'm very surprised, to tell the truth. At first glance, it's difficult to see it as a good idea. There were others beforehand, like Ferrero, or other people ready to take that job.

"Obviously there have been men who have been captain of the Fed Cup team, but to me, it's weird. But at best, she'll do a good job.

"I can't imagine a woman being coach of the football team."
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I don't think Toni's comments help with the fight against discrimination of women in sport.

Probably just Toni's massive ego at play here. He is desperate for attention.
 
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S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Well, Toni is not the one who is going to play so who cares as long as Nadal plays. And Nadal will play the same whoever is the captain because he is a true champion and does not need anyone's help.
 
easywin

easywin

Rookie
He is not very eloquent about this but he is not sexist.
He points out a reason why he doesn't think a woman fits into that position without saying she is not able to good BECAUSE she is a woman and is inferior in terms of capability.

The thing about the locker room is a valid opinion. I don't necessarily share it but of course it is a different thing to have a women in the locker room rather than a man.

I think he is just honest and doesn't think about everything being politically correct beforehand.
 
J

JMR

Hall of Fame
easywin said:
He is not very eloquent about this but he is not sexist.
He points out a reason why he doesn't think a woman fits into that position without saying she is not able to good BECAUSE she is a woman and is inferior in terms of capability.
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No, Toni's arguments are the definition of sexism, because they would prevent any woman from being deemed qualified.

Not "connected to men's tennis"? What woman is? Women don't play on the men's tour. If women can't become high-level coaches, how can they ever develop the necessary "connection"? Catch-22 from Toni.

A problem with player modesty in the locker room? What woman wouldn't this objection apply to? Note, by the way, that the locker room objection itself was long ago dismissed by the major American team sports when female journalists started covering men's pro sports. And how do male coaches deal with female players? Toni's living in the past.
 
easywin

easywin

Rookie
JMR said:
No, Toni's arguments are the definition of sexism, because they would prevent any woman from being deemed qualified.

Not "connected to men's tennis"? What woman is? Women don't play on the men's tour. If women can't become high-level coaches, how can they ever develop the necessary "connection"? Catch-22 from Toni.

A problem with player modesty in the locker room? What woman wouldn't this objection apply to? Note, by the way, that the locker room objection itself was long ago dismissed by the major American team sports when female journalists started covering men's pro sports. And how do male coaches deal with female players? Toni's living in the past.
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As I said, I don't share his view but I don't think he is sexist.
Am I sexist saying that I can't imagine walking past a construction area and seeing women working the jackhammer ? Well I can imagine it but you know what I mean :)
I am actually kind of curious how male coaches are behaving in, lets say a womens soccer team locker room. I always thought it'd be kind of weird - I mean its not like I am sexist towards women than, I'm sexist towards men too.

I think Toni has experienced tennis locker room situations in important moments more often than we have - I played soccer for 10 years and I can't imagine having a woman as a coach retrospectively.
Its different from pro sports because its a profession but for me, a coach in soccer was a dominant force who told you why you sucked at some point and yells at the team in order to wake them up.
Most women certainly wouldn't be authentic in such a role so they'd have to interprete it differently - which could of course be succesfull but I'm having a hard time to imagine such a role ... and I hope this doesn't make me sexist :)
 
J

JMR

Hall of Fame
easywin said:
As I said, I don't share his view but I don't think he is sexist.
Am I sexist saying that I can't imagine walking past a construction area and seeing women working the jackhammer ?
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I'm afraid so. It may not be consciously malevolent sexism, but it exists nonetheless. Historically, the failure of people (usually men) to "imagine" that women could be suitable for occupations traditionally occupied by men has been a major factor in preventing women from actually moving into those occupations.

Btw, I've seen plenty of women on construction sites. I'm sure they're just as happy as their male co-workers to have those good jobs.
 
President

President

Legend
This guy is a tool, always has been. Amazing that Rafael turned out to be a pretty nice guy with Toni Nadal guiding him through the years. Real strength of character.
 
easywin

easywin

Rookie
JMR said:
I'm afraid so. It may not be consciously malevolent sexism, but it exists nonetheless. Historically, the failure of people (usually men) to "imagine" that women could be suitable for occupations traditionally occupied by men has been a major factor in preventing women from actually moving into those occupations.

Btw, I've seen plenty of women on construction sites. I'm sure they're just as happy as their male co-workers to have those good jobs.
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That might be true.
I really never saw a woman on a construction site but you have to agree that there are certain professions that are harder to imagine a woman doing them - even without barriers of strength.
Like Mick said, can you imagine a female NFL coach ? Its hard to act like there is no difference. Of course (besides physical differences) women have the same possibilites as men. They can have the same character traits and personalities but that's just not how it actually plays out.
Girls play with Barbie, boys have cars. If we want to go down this road, parents panting their newborn daughters room pink is sexist.

Its just that, even though I don't know the actual circumstances, this was propably an interview question where Toni made an honest reply without trying to insult woman. He didn't look up how many female coaches there are in 2nd division soccer in some country. I think it is way more wrong to call Toni a sexist looking at such a short, spontaneous answer.

I have to say though that I'm not very sensitive towards that topic because I don't experience social imbalances or know people that are impacted by it.
And I also am not part of some "Rafa-Camp" or the opposite so I don't know if Toni is a ******bag or whatever. I saw 2-3 interviews and he seemed like a nice guy.
 
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Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
They fired Moya and replaced him with a female coach? SAY WHAT???

Don't see this being a received favorably by the likes of Ferrer Lopez Verdasco Rafa, at all.
 
Crisstti

Crisstti

Legend
I see some men here aren't too happy to be called out on their sexist comments against women here :roll:

Mustard said:
There are plenty of female soccer coaches. Dumb comment from Toni.
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Of male soccer teams?.

There are many, many male coaches of women and I guess female team sports and no one seems to think it's a problem.

Very old fashioned comment from Toni, at least...

BTW, I see in David Nadal's twitter that Carlos Moyá said he's surprised by the appointment. It does seem there were some more obvious choices. It's a pity Moyá couldn't count with Rafa during his time as captain. And with several other players for that matter. I'm not sure who he had available at all...

Moyá also says something about maybe Gala León naming herself for the job?, how could that be? (Edit: apparently she works at the Spanish Tennis Federation). He also defends Toni's comments "Toni Nadal's criticisms have to be analized from a sporting perspective, not from a sexist context which doesn't exist".

Toni's also quoted as saying "Let's not misunderstand things, I have nothing against a women coaching a (male) player".

(BTW his comment about the footbaal team was about the national football team).

Rafa just said "I can't say anything because I don't know her".
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
The real issue here is why Gala Leon, and I don't mean her sex but her performance as a tennis player.

Looking at wiki, she reached a career high of 27 on the WTA and has won nothing of note. She hasn't even made a slam QF. Not impressive in doubles either.

Ignoring gender, if you had her CV on your desk, not much would stand out and I certainly wouldn't pick her to lead one of the most important DC men's teams out there, especially in a time like this, when there are a lot of spanish players who are over the hill and relatively few youngsters coming from behind.
 
Crisstti

Crisstti

Legend
namelessone said:
The real issue here is why Gala Leon, and I don't mean her sex but her performance as a tennis player.

Looking at wiki, she reached a career high of 27 on the WTA and has won nothing of note. She hasn't even made a slam QF. Not impressive in doubles either.

Ignoring gender, if you had her CV on your desk, not much would stand out and I certainly wouldn't pick her to lead one of the most important DC men's teams out there, especially in a time like this, when there are a lot of spanish players who are over the hill and relatively few youngsters coming from behind.
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Quite a bit of conflict this is causing it seems. Apparently she worked at the Spanish tennis federarion and Moyá suggests she just appointed herself. Here former Spanish player Tomás Carbonel talks against the appointment too and says players should have had a say in who was captain:
 
OTMPut

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
what do captains do here? Do they add any value? especially the non playing captains.

another pointless tradition they can do away with.
 
RDS001

RDS001

Rookie
Instead of being stupid and insult people around, he should better care about his own things, his nephew is getting past his prime, and he should better figure out how to get him back on track when he gets back from injury..
 
F

Federer302

Guest
Crisstti said:
I see some men here aren't too happy to be called out on their sexist comments against women here :roll:
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You called Djokovic2011 sexist when he isn't and didn't do anything sexist. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can unnecessarily slander someone. As Djokovic2011 mentioned he is gay so knows all about discrimination. For you to insult him like that was probably quite hurtful.

The worst thing is you only did it because he is a Djokovic fan.
 
reversef

reversef

Hall of Fame
I quite agree with Toni's comments despite being a woman. I understand how it can be seen as "sexist comment", but I also think it could be a strange situation. On the other hand, maybe the fact that this woman doesn't know the players could help. Former players like Moya or Corretja know the players very well, they are close to them, but they couldn't make them play. Maybe the Spanish Tennis Federation hopes that someone who comes from the outside will have more success.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
namelessone said:
The real issue here is why Gala Leon, and I don't mean her sex but her performance as a tennis player.

Looking at wiki, she reached a career high of 27 on the WTA and has won nothing of note. She hasn't even made a slam QF. Not impressive in doubles either.

Ignoring gender, if you had her CV on your desk, not much would stand out and I certainly wouldn't pick her to lead one of the most important DC men's teams out there, especially in a time like this, when there are a lot of spanish players who are over the hill and relatively few youngsters coming from behind.
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Being a good coach and being a good player are not always exclusive. In fact, it is often the opposite that is true.

For example, Wayne Gretzky is widely regarded as the greatest hockey player ever, but he was a terrible coach. In contrast, Scotty Bowman was a mediocre hockey player at best, but he is regarded as perhaps the greatest coach ever. And there are a fair few examples in other sports as well.

As regards to Toni, well he's an idiot, but everybody knows that. No reason a woman can't coach a tennis team
 
RDS001

RDS001

Rookie
octobrina10 said:
Why do you think that tennis in Spain isn't Toni's thing?!
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I don't think it isn't his thing, I just think that he shouldn't act rude and be jelaous :) after all he is a coach of one of the best players that game has ever seen, but sometimes he doesn't act like that..
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Steve0904 said:
Being a good coach and being a good player are not always exclusive. In fact, it is often the opposite that is true.

For example, Wayne Gretzky is widely regarded as the greatest hockey player ever, but he was a terrible coach. In contrast, Scotty Bowman was a mediocre hockey player at best, but he is regarded as perhaps the greatest coach ever. And there are a fair few examples in other sports as well.

As regards to Toni, well he's an idiot, but everybody knows that. No reason a woman can't coach a tennis team
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I have a theory why some smart people are terrible coaches. It's if you are smart from the start or you get smart gradually from learning.

Some people grow up in smart environment and are smart from their childhood, so they don't know how stupid people think, they can't put themselves in their shoes.

Then they are people who were stupid from the start and acquired knowledge by hard work and learning a lot. So, they know how stupid people think and know how to explain things to them.

Some people don't get how some people can't understand something.
 
octobrina10

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
RDS001 said:
I don't think it isn't his thing, I just think that he shouldn't act rude and be jelaous :) after all he is a coach of one of the best players that game has ever seen, but sometimes he doesn't act like that..
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Jelaous??? About what??? Toni doesn't want to be the DC captain! He said this recently. Being the DC captain means making 4 trips (max) per year.
He doesn't travel even with Rafa everywhere (Asia, Canada, Cincinnati, Indian Wells ...).
 
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octobrina10

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
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M

mistik

Hall of Fame
You have to try something and give a chance before you say it is working or not. I dont want to pee in front a woman is bringing the argument to extreme low levels.İt seems that already sabotage campaign begins even before try it and give it a real chance.Yes in my book this is sexism.
 
RDS001

RDS001

Rookie
octobrina10 said:
Jealous??? About what??? Toni doesn't want to be the DC captain! He said this recently. Being the DC captain means making 4 trips (max) per year.
He doesn't travel even with Rafa everywhere (Asia, Canada, Cincinnati, Indian Wells ...).
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yes he says that he doesn't want it, which is probbably true,but it is not about him wanting to be DC captain or not, it is about him thinking that he could do it better than anyone else, if he wanted to, that's why he especially doesn't like to see a women being Spains DC captain
 
octobrina10

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
RDS001 said:
yes he says that he doesn't want it, which is probbably true,but it is not about him wanting to be DC captain or not, it is about him thinking that he could do it better than anyone else, if he wanted to, that's why he especially doesn't like to see a women being Spains DC captain
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Do you see into his head????
 
RDS001

RDS001

Rookie
octobrina10 said:
Do you see into his head????
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No I don't, but it is quite obvious if you look at the way he says things, but nevermind, I'm not here to argue, if you like Toni and what he does, I respect that, and I also think that he did an awesome job with rafa, but there are some things about his work that some people don't like, and that has to be respected too :)
 
octobrina10

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
RDS001 said:
No I don't, but it is quite obvious if you look at the way he says things, but nevermind, I'm not here to argue, if you like Toni and what he does, I respect that, and I also think that he did an awesome job with rafa, but there are some things about his work that some people don't like, and that has to be respected too :)
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Who are these some people who don't like Toni's work?
 
bjsnider

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
Toni's comments aren't sexist. It would be sexist to say "she cannot understand men's tennis because women as a whole cannot understand men's tennis." Toni didn't say that. He said she didn't have a background in men's tennis and that men's and women's tennis are different tactically. That may or may not be true, but it isn't sexist.
 
RDS001

RDS001

Rookie
octobrina10 said:
Who are these some people who don't like Toni's work?
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I belive there are alot of people who don't like Toni, even among Rafa fans there sure is alot of people who no longer like Toni....and I also belive that Rafa would have been an even greater player if he changed his coach back in 2008-2009.....you can say what ever, yes Toni contributed alot in making Rafa who he is, but imo he would have become even much more complete and acomplished player if Toni wasn't longer there...
 
B

booson

Professional
I don't imagine it either, but not because I am sexist, but because I feel that elite men tennis player are under so much dirt that I don't think a female player with a somewhat clean history can deal with it properly. The gender issues that Toni mentioned? They make no sense.
 
F

Federer302

Guest
Fernando Verdasco against Gala Leon as Davis Cup captain:"Nothing against her but captain has to be a man"


Does Spain have a problem with sexism? I know it has had problems with racism in the past.
 
Mick

Mick

Legend
Don't know about Spain. How about the other countries, Do they have a female Davis Cup captain?

If Not, maybe they also have a sexism problem too :shock:
 
A

Amelie Mauresmo

Banned
bjsnider said:
Toni's comments aren't sexist. It would be sexist to say "she cannot understand men's tennis because women as a whole cannot understand men's tennis." Toni didn't say that. He said she didn't have a background in men's tennis and that men's and women's tennis are different tactically. That may or may not be true, but it isn't sexist.
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Yes Toni Nadal comments ARE SEXIST! Toni is not a professional tennis pro yet he coaches Nadal. Tired of the misogyny.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
octobrina10 said:
I'm afraid you misunderstood.

Rafa's parents would have found him another coach, if there would have been problems between Rafa and Toni!
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Life is just not that black and white to think that everything between Rafa and Toni is always perfect. During the 2010 Wimbledon match that Rafa had against Philipp Petzschner, it's clear that Rafa was telling Toni to shut up after he got a code violation for coaching.
 
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