Vatic Pro Prism Flash excellent

[ByeByePoly]

Yeah … I bought another paddle.

Why:

I have improved in this first six months, but every week reminds me in doubles, kitchen and transition (3rd shot drops) is 95% of wins and losses, those tennis skills from baseline 5%. Said another way … I have better strokes, serve, return of serve than a lot of players beating me.

I decided to choose a paddle accordingly … feel and power of baseline strokes no longer the priority. I have been loving my Vatic Pro V7 16mm … and game improved with it. But after playing many games with wife’s Vatic Pro Flash 16mm … my doubles/kitchen play is noticeably better with lower swing weight than the extended paddle. FYI … wife’s Flash 8.0 oz, my V7 8.4 oz.

So I ordered another Vatic Pro Flash 16mm. Before it arrived … it occurred to me if I am going to bench playing tennis in pickleball doubles, and commit to improving kitchen and 3rd shot skills, why not go softer/less pop than the thermoformed Vatic Pro Flash. Perhaps I end up back at lower swing weight thermoformed ... I control the Vatic Pro Flash 16mm pretty good … but thin margins in doubles against the better players. Perfect timing … Daryl (Vatic Pro) just came out with the Prism line (V7 and Flash) which is also unibody (face extends through tip of handle), but not thermoformed carbon outer edges so softer and less poppy. Attempting to split the difference between gen 1 soft and gen 2 poppy.

So bought a Prism Flash 16mm … 8oz with overgrip. IMO Vatic nailed it … softer feel but more powerful then gen 1. I’ve played with it three times and love it. Nice feel like XSPAK, but more power … not the poppy feel of the Vatic Pro Flash (poppy very nice in a firefight, not necessarily for dinking or 3rd shot drops). My guess is the Prism paddle sales blow up … everyone from beginner to advanced could use this $99/$89 w/code paddle. I am going to add .4oz to bottom corners taking paddle to 8.4oz but lower swing weight than V7. I have been hitting my 3rd shot drops much better … and if the .4 oz makes it worse I will remove immediately.

Google for youtube reviews (Pickleball Effect, Tickle, Farmer, etc).

Edit: In tennis … I didn’t like to change racquets, strings, tension much because I wanted consistent results. The problem with paddles is you effectively are buying your racquet, string and preset tension … no way to adjust much … just lead tape.

 

[ByeByePoly]

It occurs to me that perhaps the best/first thing a tennis player could do starting pickleball doubles is to buy a light, soft, low power paddle. Take away the baseline banging/strokes and force yourself to develop kitchen skills early. That’s of course if your goal was to improve the fastest … might not be the most fun.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Update:

Love this paddle … love me some plush feel with plenty of power.

I have now played with Prism Flash 16 mm @8.0 oz, 8.25 oz, 8.5ish oz. 8.5 oz about perfect for me … even more plush on baseline (serve, ros) with extra weight, and still feels fast at kitchen. Resets feel really good … I think I’m already better at resets with this paddle in just four play sessions.

fyi lead location … used 1/2” 2g per inch lead tape. I found the balance point with Wilson Comfort overgrip on … which was right between “16” and “mm” on side (about 7 1/4” from tip). 3 inch strips on both sides from that point toward handle. I don’t want lead in 2hbh grip area … and good to go with this setup.

I liked it @8.25 oz … but felt like I had to swing just a little too hard on harder serves … good to go @8.5 oz. (can we really feel .025 oz difference? … I think I do)

 

[kreative]

Thanks for sharing your review. I've also been interested in the Vatic Prism since it's release, but still really enjoying the Vatic Pro V7. Your review has me even more interested as it seems to be the best of both worlds if it has the soft feel similar to the XSPAK but more pop - that was one of the things I was looking for to help with resets and firefights. The V7 gives me that desired pop, but definitely a firmer response. I tried the Flash Pro 14mm and 16mm and actually liked the 14mm better as it was quicker at the net and felt more solid. 16mm to me felt like sweetspot was small.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Thanks for sharing your review. I've also been interested in the Vatic Prism since it's release, but still really enjoying the Vatic Pro V7. Your review has me even more interested as it seems to be the best of both worlds if it has the soft feel similar to the XSPAK but more pop - that was one of the things I was looking for to help with resets and firefights. The V7 gives me that desired pop, but definitely a firmer response. I tried the Flash Pro 14mm and 16mm and actually liked the 14mm better as it was quicker at the net and felt more solid. 16mm to me felt like sweetspot was small.

I just put the XSPAK in my bag and will hit with it some Friday to refresh my memory. I will update here after with comparison to Prism flash power/feel. I was reminded when I just picked up the XSPAK that I do not miss that big squarish grip. Vatic pro octagon type grip is what I will want now regardless of paddle. The Vatic grips run a little small … but I always use an overgrip so not a problem.

To me … in pickleball doubles my best baseline paddle will not be my best kitchen paddle. Even at the kitchen … my best reset/block paddle will not be my best firefight offense.

For example, for me in doubles these would be best for listed purpose … and there would be different weight preferences:

1) baseline, serve, ros, drive -> V7
2) firefight offense -> Flash 16
3) blocks, resets, dinks, lobs, touch -> Prism Flash 16 mm

So imo I am picking a paddle that is best for me in one area, and good enough in others. Weird after never having such thoughts for a tennis racquet.

btw … I find all the foam edged Vatics (Prism Flash included) to be great on sweet spot … no issue with Flash 16, just the occasional launch on ros. Which … just occurred to me … no surprise ros launch with Prism Flash.

So I changed two things … 1) softer 2) not elongated. I’m sure Prism V7 would have been the easiest adjustment, but I decided less swing weight/head heavy was in my kitchen interest.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Thanks for sharing your review. I've also been interested in the Vatic Prism since it's release, but still really enjoying the Vatic Pro V7. Your review has me even more interested as it seems to be the best of both worlds if it has the soft feel similar to the XSPAK but more pop - that was one of the things I was looking for to help with resets and firefights. The V7 gives me that desired pop, but definitely a firmer response. I tried the Flash Pro 14mm and 16mm and actually liked the 14mm better as it was quicker at the net and felt more solid. 16mm to me felt like sweetspot was small.

Wanted to mention … don’t expect to hit either Prism with as much pace from baseline as your V7.

Also … I think of 1) power as baseline power, so stroke and mass of paddle. I think of pop as bounce/deflection of face … like short arm movements in firefights. A weighted up Prism might hit harder from baseline than a lighter Flash … but Flash more pop at kitchen. I think this is why paddle reviewer youtubers have trouble quantifying “power”.

 

[kreative]

I just put the XSPAK in my bag and will hit with it some Friday to refresh my memory. I will update here after with comparison to Prism flash power/feel. I was reminded when I just picked up the XSPAK that I do not miss that big squarish grip. Vatic pro octagon type grip is what I will want now regardless of paddle. The Vatic grips run a little small … but I always use an overgrip so not a problem.

To me … in pickleball doubles my best baseline paddle will not be my best kitchen paddle. Even at the kitchen … my best reset/block paddle will not be my best firefight offense.

For example, for me in doubles these would be best for listed purpose … and there would be different weight preferences:

1) baseline, serve, ros, drive -> V7
2) firefight offense -> Flash 16
3) blocks, resets, dinks, lobs, touch -> Prism Flash 16 mm

So imo I am picking a paddle that is best for me in one area, and good enough in others. Weird after never having such thoughts for a tennis racquet.

btw … I find all the foam edged Vatics (Prism Flash included) to be great on sweet spot … no issue with Flash 16, just the occasional launch on ros. Which … just occurred to me … no surprise ros launch with Prism Flash.

So I changed two things … 1) softer 2) not elongated. I’m sure Prism V7 would have been the easiest adjustment, but I decided less swing weight/head heavy was in my kitchen interest.

I've had issues finding "the one" in tennis too. There were plenty of rackets that I liked in some aspects, but felt deficient in others. However I will say that pickleball is a little more polarizing bc of the higher need for both drive and touch and you could tweak tennis rackets more with string setup. For instance, when I used to play with the Pure Drive my game was power and I wasn't looking for much touch - in pickleball, being a "banger" plateaus much sooner so it's more about developing that all court game. In addition, I could tame the power of the with string/tension selection (up to a point).

Funny you talk about the grip on the XSPAK...I really liked it as soon as I started playing with it bc of it's squarish more tennis-like grip shape. Before that I played with a Franklin Signature which was rectangular and wasn't fond of it. When I switched to the Vatic it felt small and took some time to adjust. Now going back to the XSPAK the grip just feels big lol.

I actually loved the XSPAK from the baseline, it really fit my longer tennis-style strokes. With the Vatic I've migrated to more compact strokes which also helps me be quicker. Touch took a little more time to adjust.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I've had issues finding "the one" in tennis too. There were plenty of rackets that I liked in some aspects, but felt deficient in others. However I will say that pickleball is a little more polarizing bc of the higher need for both drive and touch and you could tweak tennis rackets more with string setup. For instance, when I used to play with the Pure Drive my game was power and I wasn't looking for much touch - in pickleball, being a "banger" plateaus much sooner so it's more about developing that all court game. In addition, I could tame the power of the with string/tension selection (up to a point).

Funny you talk about the grip on the XSPAK...I really liked it as soon as I started playing with it bc of it's squarish more tennis-like grip shape. Before that I played with a Franklin Signature which was rectangular and when I switched to the Vatic it felt small and took some time to adjust. Now going back to the XSPAK the grip just feels big lol.

I actually loved the XSPAK from the baseline, it really fit my longer tennis-style strokes. With the Vatic I've migrated to more compact strokes which also helps me be quicker. Touch took a little more time to adjust.

All my tennis racquet grips have been octagon. I never thought about a different racquet for singles, doubles, volleys, fh vs bh in 40 years of tennis … until … I taught myself a bucket list 2hbh. I ended up preferring a 11-11.5 oz tennis racquet … but 12ish would have been good for 2hbh ( but not 1hbh drive and slice and drop shot ).
In tennis … I varied baseline pace with swing speed with same full stroke. What I have found in pickleball is the same full stroke and follow through … but abbreviated backswing. For example from baseline … I will still hit closed or neutral stance 1hbh with “some” shoulder turn … but none of that racquet/paddle behind the back/drop. Just short backswing than full stroke from there.

Ironic that my tennis was s&v, backhand slice, 1hbh drop shots (control and touch more than power), and I fought this 3rd shot drop thing for months. Why? My 1hbh tennis drop shot was lethal. Now that I’m finally giving in to 3rd shot drop … it comes pretty easy. One of the better players we play against said he loved playing me because he always knew I would bang it. His false assumption was I couldn’t drop … I just didn’t want to. Now I do … and we are getting wins against players we couldn’t beat. You said it perfectly … bangers plateau. My issue is I needed a little softer in order to improve my soft game skills. There is always the chance I do get better and later can take it back to thermoformed. I actually like the feel and feedback of V7, XSPAK started feeling too soft/muted … Prism splits the difference (I think … need hit XSPAK again).

 

[ByeByePoly]

Thanks for sharing your review. I've also been interested in the Vatic Prism since it's release, but still really enjoying the Vatic Pro V7. Your review has me even more interested as it seems to be the best of both worlds if it has the soft feel similar to the XSPAK but more pop - that was one of the things I was looking for to help with resets and firefights. The V7 gives me that desired pop, but definitely a firmer response. I tried the Flash Pro 14mm and 16mm and actually liked the 14mm better as it was quicker at the net and felt more solid. 16mm to me felt like sweetspot was small.

I only got a few minutes to hit the XSPAK again … but this is my feedback fwiw.

I hit a couple max serve drives (my max serve pace when I go for it) as a baseline “power” comparison. I hit a couple of serves with xspak, then prism, then V7.

fyi …
xspak 8.6 oz lead tape on sides
Prism 8.5 oz lead tape throat
V7 8.5 oz no lead

all over gripped

power:

If V7 was a 10, and xspak a 5, I would say prism flash 6 or 7, prism closer to xspak power than V7 imo. Also xspak extended with more swing weight than prism flash I am sure. The better power comparison probably V7 to Prism V7 … apples to apples, or is that oranges to grapes?

Feel and feedback is a little different between xspak and prism to me. Both soft at contact … but with xspak sometimes it feels like I don’t feel it, and with prism closest I’ve come to the feeling/feedback of ball sinking into strings (closest … still not strings ). With Prism … swinging volleys, blocks, resets, dinks to me is ultimate control … very satisfying feeling of wiffle staying on paddle face. If I was only serving … Pro V7 all the way … can create more easy pace without swinging out of your shoes. I am going to stick with max control for now.

I also dinked for a couple of minutes with xspak and then prism … here no contest … prism easy winner. Like the feedback/feel, outer foam forgiving sweet spot, and did I mention grip.

One last bit of feedback from today. Got to hit a few balls for the first time with a R3 Ronbus Pulsar. Soft feel and control like prism, feel a little more spring off the face … but the spin was one of those “are you kidding me”. That is the most spin from a baseline fh that I have hit in pickleball so far. Made me laugh. I don’t think the extra spin from prism to pulsar would make any difference in doubles … but I do like smiling. Definitely see why the pulsar became popular.

In the last two a weeks I hit briefly with Legacy Pro and SixZero DBD … both felt good but honestly didn’t feel much a difference to V7. I definitely did not notice any massive Legacy power. The player with Legacy Pro hit my V7 and commented feels very similar.

Edit: forgot to mention … everyone focuses on power and feel and spin … but perhaps the most important criteria is “can you hit your spots … tight targets in doubles”. At least for me … on this one the Prism Flash is the best paddle I have hit. I think ros near baseline opponent bh corner and I find myself confident in the shot. Perhaps more swinging volleys were coming anyway … have finally started figuring out this stupid game … but this week with Prism I have really started going after the swinging volleys when there. Maybe that is the Oakley Half Jacket clear prescription glasses.

Stupid stupid game … wait … did I remember to sign up for Saturday.

 

[Bud]

I only got a few minutes to hit the XSPAK again … but this is my feedback fwiw.

I hit a couple max serve drives (my max serve pace when I go for it) as a baseline “power” comparison. I hit a couple of serves with xspak, then prism, then V7.

fyi …
xspak 8.6 oz lead tape on sides
Prism 8.5 oz lead tape throat
V7 8.5 oz no lead

all over gripped

power:

If V7 was a 10, and xspak a 5, I would say prism flash 6 or 7, prism closer to xspak power than V7 imo. Also xspak extended with more swing weight than prism flash I am sure. The better power comparison probably V7 to Prism V7 … apples to apples, or is that oranges to grapes?

Feel and feedback is a little different between xspak and prism to me. Both soft at contact … but with xspak sometimes it feels like I don’t feel it, and with prism closest I’ve come to the feeling/feedback of ball sinking into strings (closest … still not strings ). With Prism … swinging volleys, blocks, resets, dinks to me is ultimate control … very satisfying feeling of wiffle staying on paddle face. If I was only serving … Pro V7 all the way … can create more easy pace without swinging out of your shoes. I am going to stick with max control for now.

I also dinked for a couple of minutes with xspak and then prism … here no contest … prism easy winner. Like the feedback/feel, outer foam forgiving sweet spot, and did I mention grip.

One last bit of feedback from today. Got to hit a few balls for the first time with a R3 Ronbus Pulsar. Soft feel and control like prism, feel a little more spring off the face … but the spin was one of those “are you kidding me”. That is the most spin from a baseline fh that I have hit in pickleball so far. Made me laugh. I don’t think the extra spin from prism to pulsar would make any difference in doubles … but I do like smiling. Definitely see why the pulsar became popular.

In the last two a weeks I hit briefly with Legacy Pro and SixZero DBD … both felt good but honestly didn’t feel much a difference to V7. I definitely did not notice any massive Legacy power. The player with Legacy Pro hit my V7 and commented feels very similar.

Edit: forgot to mention … everyone focuses on power and feel and spin … but perhaps the most important criteria is “can you hit your spots … tight targets in doubles”. At least for me … on this one the Prism Flash is the best paddle I have hit. I think ros near baseline opponent bh corner and I find myself confident in the shot. Perhaps more swinging volleys were coming anyway … have finally started figuring out this stupid game … but this week with Prism I have really started going after the swinging volleys when there. Maybe that is the Oakley Half Jacket clear prescription glasses.

Stupid stupid game … wait … did I remember to sign up for Saturday.

Have you hit with the R3.16? If so, how does it differ from the R3 Pulsar?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Have you hit with the R3.16? If so, how does it differ from the R3 Pulsar?

No … but heard it was a very good gen 1 paddle.

Chris briefly mentions gen 1 ronbus here:

Wow … even gen 1 Ronbus r1.16 was at top of spin category

Pickleball Paddle Stats | Notion

This is a spreadsheet with detailed paddle information that ThePickleballStudio has tested. HOW TO USE THIS TOOL https://youtu.be/oGl3P7Dq3QY Views: There are several view options in this spreadsheet that you can see below. This is to help you narrow down the long list of information into...

thepickleballstudio.notion.site

Another goodPulsar review:

@13:30ish he talks about coming from gen 1 but does not mention r3:16

 

[ByeByePoly]

Loved the Prism again today … this is going to be a long term relationship (which in paddle years will probably be two weeks ).

I would still call it an awesome control paddle (hit it where you are aiming) with enough spin and pace for doubles. Two things stood out today besides the expected help with soft game (drops, resets, blocks) … 1) overheads 2) lobs. Coming from tennis … I have been surprised how accurate/precise lobs have to be. Small area … errors come from 1) past baseline … and 2) not over opponents reach. I don’t like to lob constantly … but have really found it can disrupt even higher level intermediates that have solid kitchen skills. They want to play on their perfected dink skills and put away anything popped up. If you can mix in the lob … both from baseline and kitchen … lowest trajectory you can pull off … very effective. Love the Prism for those touch lower lobs. I hit a lot of topspin lobs in tennis (singles mainly) … so I have tried topspin lobs in pickleball doubles from the start. Not easy … because just a tiny bit too much forward swing path and you sail long. You can’t hit a power ts lob like you can with tennis strings. Instead I found it needs to be a light touch spinny lob … which with wiffle, paddle and tight dimensions not easy to be consistent. I had best ts lob success with the soft xspak, and found it harder with V7. Prism is best yet … even better than xspak. Also on just touch lobs without spin … best control since I started.

On overheads … if you came to pickleball from tennis with a good tennis overhead, it is hilarious how many overheads come back. You might get through good players if hit very hard if right near baseline, but in general winning overheads tend to be very deep in middle splitting the opponents, or the most often sharp wide angle overhead. With the angle overhead accuracy is king … not the pace. With the lighter swing weight and control … I am hitting sharp angle near line on opponent ad side better than ever. I can’t hit overhead pace like the V7 … but hit to precise spots. Overheads … luckily … is a tennis skill that migrates to pickleball doubles. I love to hear “tennis” muttered by my new friends… but it’s the newbie tennis pickleball players that do most of the muttering.

$89 … just the kind of thing that might end the $200+ paddle thing. Couldn’t come soon enough imo.

 

[Bud]

I just ordered one, based on your glowing review

Where do folks normally resell paddles if they don't care for them?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I just ordered one, based on your glowing review

Where do folks normally resell paddles if they don't care for them?

Did you get the Prism Flash or Prism V7? I feel such pressure now … what if you think it sucks? At least it can only be a $89 suck and not a $250 suck. I will look forward to your Prism review.

I obviously don’t know where to sell paddles based on the increasing number stacked against the wall in my closet.

 

[Bud]

Did you get the Prism Flash or Prism V7? I feel such pressure now … what if you think it sucks? At least it can only be a $89 suck and not a $250 suck. I will look forward to your Prism review.

I obviously don’t know where to sell paddles based on the increasing number stacked against the wall in my closet.

Flash

 

[Bud]

Did you get the Prism Flash or Prism V7? I feel such pressure now … what if you think it sucks? At least it can only be a $89 suck and not a $250 suck. I will look forward to your Prism review.

I obviously don’t know where to sell paddles based on the increasing number stacked against the wall in my closet.

Which ones do you have that you don't like?

I've got quite a few now as well.

The one on order I'm really looking forward to receiving is the GRUVN Raw-16RX


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0533/6694/8004/products/pickleball-paddle-raw-carbon-fiber-GRUVN-RAW-16RX-3D-grip-green-stealth-Straight-Ahead-w-Cover-1000.jpg

 

[ByeByePoly]

Which ones do you have that you don't like?

I've got quite a few now as well.

The one on order I'm really looking forward to receiving is the GRUVN Raw-16RX


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0533/6694/8004/products/pickleball-paddle-raw-carbon-fiber-GRUVN-RAW-16RX-3D-grip-green-stealth-Straight-Ahead-w-Cover-1000.jpg

You are ordering two new paddles at the same time … worse than me. Looked at the Gruvn specs … that 4.5” grip will make the Prism grip feel tiny.

Paddles (so far)

- his and hers Amazon
- his and hers Prince Response Pro
- his XSPAK
- his Vatic Pro V7 16
- her Vatic Flash 16
- his Vatic Prism Flash 16

 

[ByeByePoly]

I just ordered one, based on your glowing review

Where do folks normally resell paddles if they don't care for them?

fyi … thought these were good write ups and informative:

The 8 Best Pickleball Paddles for $100 or Less in 2023, Ranked

So, you've fallen in love with pickleball and are ready to pick up a nicer paddle for yourself or a loved one? Having a paddle that you love truly does make the game a whole lot more enjoyable. Now, I'm sure you've heard that pickleball paddles can get very expensive.…

dashpickleball.com

Vatic Pro PRISM V7 16mm Review (Feel, Power, Spin, Control, etc.)

Vatic Pro is a company that's been making waves in the pickleball paddle scene and proven to be a major disruptor in 2023. Vatic's flagship paddles, the thermoformed Vatic V7 and Vatic Flash, have been massive hits. They're excellent thermoformed paddles that are among the cheapest available...

dashpickleball.com

 

[ByeByePoly]

Flash

If you don’t want to know all the places on the paddle face you hit … might not be the best choice

Then again … sometimes in a firefight I am glad it just hit the paddle and not the thumb (those sting)

This is from one play session … always clean it after (crbn eraser and thick microfiber cloth)

Yet another reason I miss tennis strings.

 

[Bud]

If you don’t want to know all the places on the paddle face you hit … might not be the best choice

Then again … sometimes in a firefight I am glad it just hit the paddle and not the thumb (those sting)

This is from one play session … always clean it after (crbn eraser and thick microfiber cloth)

Yet another reason I miss tennis strings.

Have you tried a natural rubber eraser for carbon faced paddles. It quickly removes all the ball debris from the face. CRBN makes a black one in the perfect size.

 

[Bud]

You are ordering two new paddles at the same time … worse than me. Looked at the Gruvn specs … that 4.5” grip will make the Prism grip feel tiny.

Paddles (so far)

- his and hers Amazon
- his and hers Prince Response Pro
- his XSPAK
- his Vatic Pro V7 16
- her Vatic Flash 16
- his Vatic Prism Flash 16

3 now. Just ordered the new Ronbus Pulsar 1.

I sold the Hudef Future EVA. It was way too loud on contact. Sounded like a cannon being fired. Also, difficult to control the power. Overheads were unreturnable. Everyone kept asking me is it was legal

Will have 9 or so now, including the two original XSP's. Plan on trying a few more, including the CRBN 1X before make a decision on which to play with permanently.

Will then sell the remaining.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Have you tried a natural rubber eraser for carbon faced paddles. It quickly removes all the ball debris from the face. CRBN makes a black one in the perfect size.

yeah … I use the CRBN eraser to get everything lose … then use the microfiber cloth to clear the plastic debris field. Someone should do a spin test and see if you get more spin with the ball debris shotgun pattern left on the paddle face. I didn’t have to clean the xspak that much … same strokes … just sayin.

 

[ByeByePoly]

3 now. Just ordered the new Ronbus Pulsar 1.

I sold the Hudef Future EVA. It was way too loud on contact. Sounded like a cannon being fired. Also, difficult to control the power. Overheads were unreturnable. Everyone kept asking me is it was legal

Will have 9 or so now, including the two original XSP's. Plan on trying a few more, including the CRBN 1X before make a decision on which to play with permanently.

Will then sell the remaining.

wow … that is going to be a long ttw paddle review post.

 

[Bud]

wow … that is going to be a long ttw paddle review post.

Received the Gruvn Raw-16RX today.
Trying it tomorrow

 

[nvr2old]

My wife and I personally love our Legacy Pro’s. Have 3 of them. Also have and love the new Pro S model. I’ve hit the Vatic Pro V7 and Six One Double Black Diamond and while nice I still prefer the Legacy. Don’t have any problems with resets or soft/kitchen game personally. Glad you like your Vatics though.

 

[ByeByePoly]

My wife and I personally love our Legacy Pro’s. Have 3 of them. Also have and love the new Pro S model. I’ve hit the Vatic Pro V7 and Six One Double Black Diamond and while nice I still prefer the Legacy. Don’t have any problems with resets or soft/kitchen game personally. Glad you like your Vatics though.

I had Legacy ordered several months ago and got tired of waiting so cancelled and bought V7. Very happy with it … improved my game. The Prism represents my realization that I needed pickleball soft game skills development more from the start than I ever needed baseline (tennis) skills. Decent tennis players will be good to go serving and returning (throw in overheads) in pickleball in a couple of weeks … but not dropping, resets, blocking, good enough dinking, kitchen non-rotation firefight skills, etc (basically 3rd shot drops and everything kitchen is where the bulk of the tennis players learning curve must happen). I totally enjoyed the different paddles, and each purchase making me feel closer to tennis. But … if I could go back 6 months I would tell myself to forget the baseline until I have mastered 3rd set drops and all things kitchen (i.e. buy control paddle). I play regularly with a 18-19 year old … 6’ 2” … incredible mover with long reach … even without any paddle or racquet background (no baseline strokes) quickly became a 3rd shot machine. Got to kitchen quickly … low error dinking … got everything back with no big offense … long reach and said basically get it past him. He had just as much success at improving level of play as this 4 decade 4.5 tennis player. Obviously 18 vs 65 part of that … but I still have good movement for 65 and come with “tennis” strokes, topspin, drives … and his focusing on soft game was just as successful in early months as 4 decades of tennis. We … tennis players don’t want to believe that … I ignored it for 5 months. Our head pro … 5.0 … beats D1 tennis players in pickleball doubles says “love playing high level tennis players playing tennis in pball doubles”. He said in general in pball doubles good level tennis players start at 3.5ish pball quickly … then have significant learning curve after that. Anyway … gave in … Prism and on a mission to improve soft game.

I got to hit a Legacy Pro, SixZero DBD, and Ronbus R3 Pulsar briefly … not the same as playing a game with them. My initial impression is I didn’t notice a drastic difference in feel or power in any of them, including my V7.

 

[nvr2old]

I had Legacy ordered several months ago and got tired of waiting so cancelled and bought V7. Very happy with it … improved my game. The Prism represents my realization that I needed pickleball soft game skills development more from the start than I ever needed baseline (tennis) skills. Decent tennis players will be good to go serving and returning (throw in overheads) in pickleball in a couple of weeks … but not dropping, resets, blocking, good enough dinking, kitchen non-rotation firefight skills, etc (basically 3rd shot drops and everything kitchen is where the bulk of the tennis players learning curve must happen). I totally enjoyed the different paddles, and each purchase making me feel closer to tennis. But … if I could go back 6 months I would tell myself to forget the baseline until I have mastered 3rd set drops and all things kitchen (i.e. buy control paddle). I play regularly with a 18-19 year old … 6’ 2” … incredible mover with long reach … even without any paddle or racquet background (no baseline strokes) quickly became a 3rd shot machine. Got to kitchen quickly … low error dinking … got everything back with no big offense … long reach and said basically get it past him. He had just as much success at improving level of play as this 4 decade 4.5 tennis player. Obviously 18 vs 65 part of that … but I still have good movement for 65 and come with “tennis” strokes, topspin, drives … and his focusing on soft game was just as successful in early months as 4 decades of tennis. We … tennis players don’t want to believe that … I ignored it for 5 months. Our head pro … 5.0 … beats D1 tennis players in pickleball doubles says “love playing high level tennis players playing tennis in pball doubles”. He said in general in pball doubles good level tennis players start at 3.5ish pball quickly … then have significant learning curve after that. Anyway … gave in … Prism and on a mission to improve soft game.

I got to hit a Legacy Pro, SixZero DBD, and Ronbus R3 Pulsar briefly … not the same as playing a game with them. My initial impression is I didn’t notice a drastic difference in feel or power in any of them, including my V7.

Sounds good. To each his own I guess. Personally don’t find my Legacy lacking at the kitchen for dinks etc, maybe due to soft hands from playing college baseball years ago, dunno. Anyway glad you like the Prism.

BTW. I initially bought the CRBN eraser like many others. Recently bought a sandpaper cleaner block of natural rubber on amazon which to me is almost identical and much much and larger for much less. Check it out if anyone’s interested.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Sounds good. To each his own I guess. Personally don’t find my Legacy lacking at the kitchen for dinks etc, maybe due to soft hands from playing college baseball years ago, dunno. Anyway glad you like the Prism.

BTW. I initially bought the CRBN eraser like many others. Recently bought a sandpaper cleaner block of natural rubber on amazon which to me is almost identical and much much and larger for much less. Check it out if anyone’s interested.

Yeah … I had heard the belt sander cleaning eraser sticks was just as good (same thing). I can do pretty good with just the microfiber cloth if not that dirty. I end up using a wet paper towel to clean the eraser after cleaning the paddle … who knew the wiffle could cause so much trouble.

btw … that carbon fiber surface most of us thought was like gritty sandpaper is actually soft carbon cloth on top of the plastic core, than they use a peel ply sheet to apply a resin surface over the carbon cloth. The peel ply is removed after it has been pressed against carbon cloth … leaving an exterior resin layer. We apparently are just cleaning the ball plastic off of resin (which makes me ask the question again … would the dirty paddle with wiffle ball debris actually create more spin?). Would be ironic on how strongly they regulate the paddle surface if wiffle debris beat the system.

So maybe carbon fiber never touches the ball … although Johnkew (youtube) thinks it becomes a resin fiber mix that becomes the outer surface. Stay tuned … also sounds like paddle tech might be completely different in a year … those longer warranties don’t seem useful to me with pickleball paddles.

 

[Bud]

Sounds good. To each his own I guess. Personally don’t find my Legacy lacking at the kitchen for dinks etc, maybe due to soft hands from playing college baseball years ago, dunno. Anyway glad you like the Prism.

BTW. I initially bought the CRBN eraser like many others. Recently bought a sandpaper cleaner block of natural rubber on amazon which to me is almost identical and much much and larger for much less. Check it out if anyone’s interested.

I have both erasers and the natural rubber is a better deal and IMO works better. However, It sheds more and is really difficult to cut into small usable pieces. The CRBN eraser works pretty well.

 

[Bud]

Received the Gruvn Raw-16RX today.
Trying it tomorrow

Tried the Gruvn paddle today and really like it. The 6" handle is nearly perfect for two hands and the shape + smaller surface area allows the paddle go through the air quicker.

The surface is also the roughest of every paddle I've tried so far. It creates really nice spin.

I'd like to see this paddle with a 6.5" long grip. That would be perfection.

 

[kreative]

My wife and I personally love our Legacy Pro’s. Have 3 of them. Also have and love the new Pro S model. I’ve hit the Vatic Pro V7 and Six One Double Black Diamond and while nice I still prefer the Legacy. Don’t have any problems with resets or soft/kitchen game personally. Glad you like your Vatics though.

What do you both prefer with your Legacy Pro's vs the DBD and Vatic Pro V7? What differences do you find in play/performance between the Legacy Pro vs Pro S?

 

[nvr2old]

Well I think it really boils down to the fact that we got the Legacy Pro first and got used to it honestly. It made us both better players despite the archer vs arrow saying. Serves, drives, net/hand battles and resets were/are much easier. Took some getting used to on dinks and soft game. Since playing with it I’ve had multiple ATP’s and serve can be amazing. The Vatic and DBD have the same thermoformed solid feel but slightly less pop IMO. If I’d have started with them I’m sure I’d be using them now. Knock on Legacy is touch but not a problem for me. The Pro S is a standard 16x8 size. Lower swingweight and faster in hand at the net. Slightly less power than other Legacy but by no means lacking. Spin for both is over the top of you want to play that way. Jury still out with delam issue but we’ve had no problems with 4 of them pkaying 3-4 times a week since January. Price was $130 or so with MCLEGACY discount code. Anyway can’t go wrong with any of them. Consumers are spoiled with the many brands and options and prices nowadays.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Well I think it really boils down to the fact that we got the Legacy Pro first and got used to it honestly. It made us both better players despite the archer vs arrow saying. Serves, drives, net/hand battles and resets were/are much easier. Took some getting used to on dinks and soft game. Since playing with it I’ve had multiple ATP’s and serve can be amazing. The Vatic and DBD have the same thermoformed solid feel but slightly less pop IMO. If I’d have started with them I’m sure I’d be using them now. Knock on Legacy is touch but not a problem for me. The Pro S is a standard 16x8 size. Lower swingweight and faster in hand at the net. Slightly less power than other Legacy but by no means lacking. Spin for both is over the top of you want to play that way. Jury still out with delam issue but we’ve had no problems with 4 of them pkaying 3-4 times a week since January. Price was $130 or so with MCLEGACY discount code. Anyway can’t go wrong with any of them. Consumers are spoiled with the many brands and options and prices nowadays.

We deserve a little spoiling after being presented with $333.

 

[nvr2old]

We deserve a little spoiling after being presented with $333.

Yeah really! I’d buy 2-3 of LP, Vatic, DBD, Ronbus etc etc before I paid $333 for any PB paddle.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yeah really! I’d buy 2-3 of LP, Vatic, DBD, Ronbus etc etc before I paid $333 for any PB paddle.

Yep … and I won’t be buying any Selkirk 100 two years from now … my memory is good.

 

[Bud]

Received my Prism Flash. Trying it tomorrow.

 

[nvr2old]

Nice!

 

[ByeByePoly]

Received my Prism Flash. Trying it tomorrow.

We expect a 5 page detailed review

This thread shows up on first page with Google search on “Vatic Pro Prism Flash” … but no pressure

 

[Bud]

I only got a few minutes to hit the XSPAK again … but this is my feedback fwiw.

I hit a couple max serve drives (my max serve pace when I go for it) as a baseline “power” comparison. I hit a couple of serves with xspak, then prism, then V7.

fyi …
xspak 8.6 oz lead tape on sides
Prism 8.5 oz lead tape throat
V7 8.5 oz no lead

all over gripped

power:

If V7 was a 10, and xspak a 5, I would say prism flash 6 or 7, prism closer to xspak power than V7 imo. Also xspak extended with more swing weight than prism flash I am sure. The better power comparison probably V7 to Prism V7 … apples to apples, or is that oranges to grapes?

Feel and feedback is a little different between xspak and prism to me. Both soft at contact … but with xspak sometimes it feels like I don’t feel it, and with prism closest I’ve come to the feeling/feedback of ball sinking into strings (closest … still not strings ). With Prism … swinging volleys, blocks, resets, dinks to me is ultimate control … very satisfying feeling of wiffle staying on paddle face. If I was only serving … Pro V7 all the way … can create more easy pace without swinging out of your shoes. I am going to stick with max control for now.

I also dinked for a couple of minutes with xspak and then prism … here no contest … prism easy winner. Like the feedback/feel, outer foam forgiving sweet spot, and did I mention grip.

One last bit of feedback from today. Got to hit a few balls for the first time with a R3 Ronbus Pulsar. Soft feel and control like prism, feel a little more spring off the face … but the spin was one of those “are you kidding me”. That is the most spin from a baseline fh that I have hit in pickleball so far. Made me laugh. I don’t think the extra spin from prism to pulsar would make any difference in doubles … but I do like smiling. Definitely see why the pulsar became popular.

In the last two a weeks I hit briefly with Legacy Pro and SixZero DBD … both felt good but honestly didn’t feel much a difference to V7. I definitely did not notice any massive Legacy power. The player with Legacy Pro hit my V7 and commented feels very similar.

Edit: forgot to mention … everyone focuses on power and feel and spin … but perhaps the most important criteria is “can you hit your spots … tight targets in doubles”. At least for me … on this one the Prism Flash is the best paddle I have hit. I think ros near baseline opponent bh corner and I find myself confident in the shot. Perhaps more swinging volleys were coming anyway … have finally started figuring out this stupid game … but this week with Prism I have really started going after the swinging volleys when there. Maybe that is the Oakley Half Jacket clear prescription glasses.

Stupid stupid game … wait … did I remember to sign up for Saturday.

I tried the Prism stock and didn't care for it. I'll install a leather grip and some lead to get it to about 8.5 oz. Then try it again.

I'm looking forward to the Pulsar R1 when it arrives. It's gotten really good reviews. Supposed to be more power than the PR3.

Gotta start selling off some of these paddles, soon.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I tried the Prism stock and didn't care for it. I'll install a leather grip and some lead to get it to about 8.5 oz. Then try it again.

I'm looking forward to the Pulsar R1 when it arrives. It's gotten really good reviews. Supposed to be more power than the PR3.

Gotta start selling off some of these paddles, soon.

That is way shorter than 5 page review?

To me … the Vatic paddle grips are closest to what I am used to with tennis racquets (octagon). A little small … but I always use an overgrip anyway.

What did you not like about Prism (flash ?) besides the grip? Feel? Power? Spin?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Update:

After a month with Prism Flash, and forcing myself to hit more 3rd shot drops instead of 3rd shot drives … two things:

1) Prism Flash excellent and steal for under $100
2) went back to Vatic Pro V7 (best match for my tennis skills)

For me … it comes down matching my skills/personality (or lack of ) rather than doing a skills makeover, and also factoring in age. I’m a tennis player … I play better (and enjoy it more) as a banger shooting for adequate soft game, rather than ditch the drives and become soft game specialist. Also … age factors into it. Not sure how many 65+ players excel at 5 minute kitchen crab walking dink points … but I won’t be one of them. Factoring in age and tennis skills … it’s in my interest to disrupt the rec player kitchen specialist whenever I can. I am starting to have some success with topspin lobs from the baseline (easiest when inside the baseline a little). It is a hard precise shot given the short court dimensions … but totally disrupts the kitchen-centric play. The V7 from the baseline is my best baseline Vatic paddle … it is my best full swing control paddle. I also intend to lob more often from kitchen. One of the best ways to disguise a lob from kitchen seems to be off a volley in the air rather than off the bounce. More volleys from the air (rather than step back) is on my list anyway … plan on working on both. Also on my list to disrupt the dink meisters … better backhand speedups. I’m already decent with forehand, but thinking of switching to 2hbh for backhand attempted speedups.

I think paddle choices are harder than tennis racquet choices. In pickleball … paddle needs from baseline and net/kitchen can be very different. Never had that thought in tennis. I might want a light poppy Pro Flash for firefights, soft prism for dinks/resets, Pro V7 for baseline/overheads/serves/ros, etc). No getting around settling on tradeoffs … why matching your skills/priorities comes into play. Even if you are just starting out … it might be worth considering what you want to prioritize. There is no getting around the need for good kitchen skills if you want to get to good intermediate level.

One other thought … for me I don’t think soft/plush automatically means control/touch. When I went back to Pro V7, I didn’t lose dinking control I had with the Prism. I expected to, but did not. I know we often liked the feel of some tennis strings but it often wasn’t the best control. Not sure … but I do know Pro V7 is easily the best baseline full swing paddle, including topspin of my three Vatics. To me … that means sticking with paddles leaning toward baseline power, which for now will be thermoformed carbon faced paddles (even with core crushing issues). I have only briefly hit pulsar, legacy, and 6.0 … so I can’t speak to thermoformed comparison. The one I would be most interested in as far as a side by side comparison would be R3 Pulsar … particularly spin comparison. I think both Vatic and Ronbus are doing great things disrupting the $250+ market. Well … attempting to … lots of new Joola showing up in the wild.

Edit:

Another example of paddle tradeoffs. Say you are in a firefight … no time but short backhand punch … give me my pro flash 16. But what about a little more time … a little higher and on backhand side … time to get more arm swing into it ... give me my pro V7 heft.

V7 completes me

 

[Bud]

I gave mine away recently. Good paddle but wasn't a match for my game.

The OYA Obsidian Max is the best paddle for my game.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I gave mine away recently. Good paddle but wasn't a match for my game.

The OYA Obsidian Max is the best paddle for my game.

Your best match in this week’s purchases

I hope someone shows up with one … would be very curious to hit it. Also the Apes paddle. I measured our tennis racquet grips when I posted my 2hbh grip thread here, and I think 7.5”.

Pickleball Studio (Chris) did a review … he added lead because of lower swing weight.

Did you add lead?
Did you try the Pickleball Apes Pro Line Energy paddle?

 

[Bud]

The only modifications made on both the Phantom and Obsidian are a leather grip and head tape. The Phantom is 9.5 oz with no lead. The Obsidian is 9.0 oz. with no lead. I don't notice the stock SW being low on either paddle.

 

[ByeByePoly]

The only modifications made on both the Phantom and Obsidian are a leather grip and head tape. The Phantom is 9.5 oz with no lead. The Obsidian is 9.0 oz. with no lead. I don't notice the stock SW being low on either paddle.

How did just leather grip and head tape add that much weight? What was weight when paddles arrived?

 

[Bud]

How did just leather grip and head tape add that much weight? What was weight when paddles arrived?

8.5 and 8.0. Head tape is heavier than you may think. Gripwise, i placed the leather grip directly on top of the stock grip to increase the grip size. TW thin leather.

 

[ByeByePoly]

8.5 and 8.0. Head tape is heavier than you may think. Gripwise, i placed the leather grip directly on top of the stock grip to increase the grip size. TW thin leather.

ah … I almost guessed it was the head tape. Still … surprising it adds that much. This is good to know … if I was ever adding weight to tip and sides, would prefer tape than lead. So far I have just added weight to throat below sides (3 and 9).

 

[Bud]

Not sure why many add lead at 4/8 instead of 3/9. Will pull the sweet spot lower on the paddle. Perhaps to keep the balance point similar.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Not sure why many add lead at 4/8 instead of 3/9. Will pull the sweet spot lower on the paddle. Perhaps to keep the balance point similar.

fyi … I think all/most paddles are head heavy … makes deciding what balance point feels right or plays best different/harder to gauge than tennis racquets imo. Then again … decades with a racquet, and months with a paddle.


I wonder if 3 and 9 means the same thing to everyone. To me it’s the balance point. I don’t have a balance board … so I just push paddle over edge of a table (or over dowel rod) tip first. I put my tournagrip and edge electrical tape (my constants) on first before marking balance point.

Then I play at least one session with the paddle.

In the case of Vatic Pro V7 it was good to go … same no lead 8.5 oz for 5+ months (no delamination/core crushing btw)

But let’s say I hit a paddle, happy with balance … but want to take paddle from 8.0 oz to 8.4 oz. I would put the lead at the balance point … equal length of strip above and below balance point. If I don’t mind a little less head heavy, I would just put strip starting at balance point and going down from there. Braydon (Pickleball Effect) said that position adds to swing weight minimally, and good for twist weight increase.

I do see why some with a heavier swing weight paddle, but light static weight might want to go closer to the throat if they feel they are at their max swing weight tolerance. But at that point … you probably have the wrong paddle for you. The Pro V7 seems to play around 120 swing weight (Pickleball Studio Paddle Stats Spreadsheet). Whatever it is … good compromise for me with baseline and kitchen play.

Does any of this paddle customization help … probably not.

 

[Bud]

Considering only the face of the racquet/paddle and visualizing it as a clock face, 3/9 would be directly right and left of the approx. centroid.

Most customized paddles I've seen are leaded on the curve down to the handle, 4/8 or 5/7.

I like 3/9 as it gives the highest twistweight. A leather grip can re-balance the paddle back to approximately stock or slightly more head light, assuming one doesn't go overboard with the lead tape.

IMO, 8.5 to 9.0 oz. Is the optimum weight for plow vs maneuverability vs static weight.