What’s wrong with what Rafa said about Federer v Djokovic?

[mahatma]

Nadal is too bu**hurt since some time now tbh. Just everyone needs to remove their fan glasses for a bit and check his recent interviews.

He has been making comments after comments to ensure world sees that he “isn’t obsessed”, while he still played a GS with numb foot etc.

He has been chasing that slam record for 2 decades and had it eventually for 9 months and it’s again gone.

Federer though I feel has moved on nicely. Being 3rd helps in moving on. It ensures you not thinking that you were close enough. But Nadal was quite close.. and acceptance will come in eventually. Though it’s difficult for him.

 

[soldat]

You proved my point, he couldn't win over the fans and this is what it kills Djoko b 0 ts.

Djokovic has fans everywhere, he may even have more fans than Federer and Nadal.

But when the media is trying to create a false narrative, as a citizen of this community we have a duty to call it out.

When you are asked about whose game captivates you more, your answer should be a personal one. Mentioning what “tennis fans” in general think is trying to create the idea that there is widely accepted opinion when there isn’t one, and putting words into other people’s mouths.

The way Djokovic answered the interview in 2011 Indian wells final is the respectful way to give your opinion. “It is always a great pleasure to play against you, you are a big champion, for me, you are the greatest tennis player of all time.”

For me Djokovic is the most inspiring player, the GOAT and I admire his game the most.

 

[Federev]

I get that. And I’ve always thought of the Fedovic rivalry as the one least in the media’s eye yet the closest of the 3. Not sure why.

I think Fedal has a greater contrast. But think it’s also a matter of timing. Fed wasn’t losing to Novak - barely challenged in slams until 2010-2012. After that it’s all Novak and Fed is old. Not such a compelling story.

Whereas by 2010 Federer and Nadal had already had a full Federer prime of matches. Especially back then - it was like the majority of Feds career was spent w Nadal. Thats what it came across as - before guys started playing till they had to wear man bras.

But otherwise - I tend to agree that since 2010 the Fedovic rivalry has been more compelling.

 

[Federev]

Fedal fans have just become too old and hurt with latest developments. They had huge headstart but never showed required respect to Nole. Same with Nadal here.

That’s it …

“Never showed the required respect”…

I think that’s at the core of it right?

This sense that “my player has been robbed of earned acclaim”.

I see Buffalo Bills fans mad their QB, Josh Allen, got snubbed in Pro Bowl voting. I’m a Bills fan, I get it.

It seems to make sense on one level. Initially. And - If acclaim were simply a function of records it would make sense.

But abstractions like respect and appreciation and acclaim - you can’t earn them. Not like you can earn medals and trophies.

Think of it like this:

Would you go to your boss and say - “I earned my bonus by hitting the sales record. You owe me this.” Of course you would. We’ll.. that’s what trophies are like.

Would you go to a girl you like and say “I earned your affection and admiration by hitting my sales record”. Of course not. In fact, if you keep going, she’s going to run and call the police because you seem irrational.

THAT’S the difference between trophies and respect/acclaim in sports.

One you can earn, the other gets farther away from you the more you act like you earned it.

 

[nolefam_2024]

That’s it …

“Never showed the required respect”…

I think that’s at the core of it right?

This sense that “my player has been robbed of earned acclaim”.

I see Buffalo Bills fans mad their QB, Josh Allen, got snubbed in Pro Bowl voting. I’m a Bills fan, I get it.

It seems to make sense on one level. Initially. And - If acclaim were simply a function of records it would make sense.

But abstractions like respect and appreciation and acclaim - you can’t earn them. Not like you can earn medals and trophies.

Think of it like this:

Would you go to your boss and say - “I earned my bonus by hitting the sales record. You owe me this.” Of course you would. We’ll.. that’s what trophies are like.

Would you go to a girl you like and say “I earned your affection and admiration by hitting my sales record”. Of course not. In fact, if you keep going, she’s going to run and call the police because you seem irrational.

THAT’S the difference between trophies and respect/acclaim in sports.

One you can earn, the other gets farther away from the more you act like you earned it.

You may have correct analogy. But that doesn't dissuade the fans at all. The fans will only get louder.

 

[junior74]

Nothing

 

[mike danny]

The difference is that they’ve had great matches at all 4 slams. Even at RG, where Nadal reigns supreme.

But it’s true the only really close matchup is that of Fedovic

Have they now? None of their USO finals were epic memorable matches

 

[Azure]

Nah.

I love that he is disliked by the establishment.

He is disliked by himself? Wow

 

[Lauren_Girl']

It’s his opinion. I think he summed it up perfectly and in perfect “get to the point” Rafa style.

It’s also an opinion shared by tens of millions of people like me (if not more).

It doesn’t subtract from Novak’s records at all.

Novak fans who can’t live with it should try living with “40-15”!

I’m sure you wouldn’t make that trade. You’ve got the clutch record holder. Why worry that much about people’s opinions?

Anyway - it doesn’t make fans - or Novak - look any better when they get in a tizzy about it. Better to let it be.

Roger Federer may not be tennis' GOAT, but as Rafael Nadal articulated, he's a 1 of 1 | Tennis.com

The Swiss was a player for the ages in ways that goes far beyond his contribution as winner of 20 Grand Slam singles titles.

www.tennis.com

And there are tens of millions of people (like me) who don't share his opinions at all.

Nothing wrong with Nadal's opinions for me, I just don't agree with a lot of them.

Opinions are just that at the end of the day. Opinions. Nadal's opinion isn't more correct than mine, yours or any other tennis fan.

I can still tell the difference between opinions and facts.

FACTS : 24 > 22, 408 > 209, 40 > 36, 8 > 5, 30 > 29, 98 > 94, ... those numbers are mathematical, undisputable, irrevocable FACTS. No one on this planet would be able to argue these.

OPINIONS : Nadal has more fans around the world. Nadal has a better style. Nadal is a better person. Those are just OPINIONS, not facts.

 

[jackson vile]

Cringe

 

[mika1979]

It’s his opinion. I think he summed it up perfectly and in perfect “get to the point” Rafa style.

It’s also an opinion shared by tens of millions of people like me (if not more).

It doesn’t subtract from Novak’s records at all.

Novak fans who can’t live with it should try living with “40-15”!

I’m sure you wouldn’t make that trade. You’ve got the clutch record holder. Why worry that much about people’s opinions?

Anyway - it doesn’t make fans - or Novak - look any better when they get in a tizzy about it. Better to let it be.

Roger Federer may not be tennis' GOAT, but as Rafael Nadal articulated, he's a 1 of 1 | Tennis.com

The Swiss was a player for the ages in ways that goes far beyond his contribution as winner of 20 Grand Slam singles titles.

www.tennis.com

Complete waste of time both the article and the post.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

The thinking is that Rafa is as obsessed with Djokovic as Novak's army of internet lunatics are, and that every single thing that he says is intended as a slight against the man.

That's not to say some of the things he says may not be intended as such, but the fanbase with the worlds greatest persecution complex see every single thing that way.

Most have no comprehension of Federer, his immensity, what he meant to so many, and if someone is to wax lyrical about him they could only be doing it as an insult to Djokovic, because I, the offended, was born yesterday.

I think they do, and that's the issue.

 

[GabeT]

Have they now? None of their USO finals were epic memorable matches

2013 was pretty good, maybe not AO12 level though

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Nadal is too bu**hurt since some time now tbh. Just everyone needs to remove their fan glasses for a bit and check his recent interviews.

He has been making comments after comments to ensure world sees that he “isn’t obsessed”, while he still played a GS with numb foot etc.

He has been chasing that slam record for 2 decades and had it eventually for 9 months and it’s again gone.

Federer though I feel has moved on nicely. Being 3rd helps in moving on. It ensures you not thinking that you were close enough. But Nadal was quite close.. and acceptance will come in eventually. Though it’s difficult for him.

Close enough to what?

 

[mike danny]

2013 was pretty good, maybe not AO12 level though

I fail to see how 2013 was better than, say, 2007 or 2011 FO Fedal finals.

 

[mike danny]

2013 was pretty good, maybe not AO12 level though

And I fail to see how a match with 6-2 and 6-1 sets can even be called a great match.

 

[Clay lover]

For some who claim to be hipster and hate the establishment one fanbase sure does a lot of thought-policing around here...

 

[tsp_207]

He was asked about Federer and he answered Djokovic. That's the problem.

 

[NeutralFan]

Djokovic has fans everywhere, he may even have more fans than Federer and Nadal.

But when the media is trying to create a false narrative, as a citizen of this community we have a duty to call it out.

When you are asked about whose game captivates you more, your answer should be a personal one. Mentioning what “tennis fans” in general think is trying to create the idea that there is widely accepted opinion when there isn’t one, and putting words into other people’s mouths.

The way Djokovic answered the interview in 2011 Indian wells final is the respectful way to give your opinion. “It is always a great pleasure to play against you, you are a big champion, for me, you are the greatest tennis player of all time.”

For me Djokovic is the most inspiring player, the GOAT and I admire his game the most.

Lmao at he has more fans than Fedal, keep creating your own reality. He's the only champion in history of tennis who get booed at every slam even against unseeded players .

 

[FlyingSaucer]

For some who claim to be hipster and hate the establishment one fanbase sure does a lot of thought-policing around here...

I have genuinely found it incredibly strange to see folks stipulate the terms on which Nadal is permitted to mention Djokovic. Not like he knows him personally, or anything.

 

[Federev]

He was asked about Federer and he answered Djokovic. That's the problem.

To be fair, i believe the question started with why the Fedal rivalry seems to be so renowned as opposed to Djokdal rivalry.

So from the start it involved Novak.

 

[Azure]

For some who claim to be hipster and hate the establishment one fanbase sure does a lot of thought-policing around here...

One fanbase or a few posters?

 

[Razer]

Djokovic has won the Slams Race but he ended up as a loser in Gaining Fans.
Federer has the Most fans & the most Money but he ended up losing his Goathood and slams race.

Nadal had neither, I think that's why he is the angriest (read : least satisfied) of the 3 right now.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic has won the Slams Race he ended up as a loser in Gaining Fans.
Federer has the Most fans & the most Money but he ended up losing his Goathood and slams race.

Nadal had neither, I think that's why he is the angriest of the 3 right now.

Facts.

Also having most fans is not the goal. Having fans is always great but having trophies is better. Otherwise these are Moral victories. Like here. You want your favorites to have real victories, not moral ones.

 

[Razer]

Facts.

Also having most fans is not the goal. Having fans is always great but having trophies is better. Otherwise these are Moral victories. Like here. You want your favorites to have real victories, not moral ones.

Yeah but having most money can be a goal Federer has more money than Djokodal combined and his brand is the biggest, this means money attracts more money, he will only widen that gap more in future. His fanfare was always skyhigh and he was loved throughout, so he never had to endure the boos and hostile crowds, feeling miserable, that kind of feelings he never endured. So it has its perks as well

and who says being popular is not a goal ? Popularity is very very very important, the reason why a sport exists is because fans come to watch these players hit a ball.
Tennis is not an essential day to day life activity for it to be only results based.

A doctor has to be skilled, not popular because patients will find him anyway when they need him, cannot say the same for sportsman, a sportsman has to make people care for him otherwise the sport will gradually die. Djokovic given how boring and unpopular he is does reap benefits of Federer popularising the game, so he can afford to be booed and still make money, but if Tennis has no stars who are popular even 10 year after Novak retires then the sport slowly will die.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Big assumption to say Djokovic is unpopular. He is very popular. Everywhere. The cena like hate from Fedal oldies doesn't matter. They still come and pay.

 

[Razer]

Djokovic is indeed like Cena while Peak Federer is similar to peak Stonecold while Nadal could be some version of the Rock, we could consider Borg as Hulk Hogan while Pete was Bret the Hitman Hart.

Seems like a good comparison of the stardom & significance ? @MichaelNadal

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Big assumption to say Djokovic is unpopular. He is very popular. Everywhere. The cena like hate from Fedal oldies doesn't matter. They still come and pay.

Yeah it's a dangerous statement. Not sure why it's stated as a fact when it's clearly not true. He has haters (like everyone) but he is at worst the 2nd most popular ATP active player behind Nadal (Fed is long retired now, the popularity contest makes no sense at this point). I defy anyone to mention a more popular name than Djokovic in 2023, lol. Alcaraz/Sinner are gaining fans for sure, but they still don't have the quarter of Djokovic's fanbase. Also a big assumption to say Nadal is more popular than him at this point. Depends on a lot of factors (which country to begin with). One thing is for sure, all 4 Grand Slams broke records of attendance in 2023 and there was only 1 common denominator (guess who)

 

[Razer]

Yeah it's a dangerous statement. Not sure why it's stated as a fact when it's clearly not true.

One thing is for sure, all 4 Grand Slams broke records of attendance in 2023 and there was only 1 common denominator (guess who)

Borg and Federer popularized & carried Tennis in their times just like Hulk Hogan & Stonecold Steve Austin did for WWF. Djokovic & John Cena reaped the benefits of their predecessors despite being so disliked and yet the game/sport that they play is hugely popular worldwide in their eras, so whatever attendance records you are seeing now is because of the game on the whole being at this level, not because of anyone coming to watch this image of a larger than life superstar called Novak that you have in your mind. By the way you were probably not a fan of the game before 2011, it is evident from your posts, so how would you understand why the game has the attendance numbers even now ?

 

[Clay lover]

One fanbase or a few posters?

True ma bad

 

[pirhaksar]

I completely agree. The media hyped it up but it wasn’t the most exciting or competitive rivalry of the big 3.

I agree with this.

Borg and Federer popularized & carried Tennis in their times just like Hulk Hogan & Stonecold Steve Austin did for WWF. Djokovic & John Cena reaped the benefits of their predecessors despite being so disliked and yet the game/sport that they play is hugely popular worldwide in their eras, so whatever attendance records you are seeing now is because of the game on the whole being at this level, not because of anyone coming to watch this image of a larger than life superstar called Novak that you have in your mind. By the way you were probably not a fan of the game before 2011, it is evident from your posts, so how would you understand why the game has the attendance numbers even now ?

i don’t understand why you are so obsessed about who likes Djokovic or why he should be as liked as Roger? I get trying to troll and rile some of the fans but clearly he is not as unpopular as you claim him to be either. He ain’t Roger sure (guess no one can be) but he ain’t a villain either. He is popular enough. Pete was not all that popular in his glory Wimby days. Unlike Pete who is quiet and unassuming, Djokovic needles people and likes to rub it in and gets boed etc. he is controversial and polarizing that there’s no doubt. But that doesn’t mean he is some random guy, he is right up there next to Rafa and that’s not a bad spot.

 

[Razer]

I agree with this.

i don’t understand why you are so obsessed about who likes Djokovic or why he should be as liked as Roger? I get trying to troll and rile some of the fans but clearly he is not as unpopular as you claim him to be either. He ain’t Roger sure (guess no one can be) but he ain’t a villain either. He is popular enough. Pete was not all that popular in his glory Wimby days. Unlike Pete who is quiet and unassuming, Djokovic needles people and likes to rub it in and gets boed etc. he is controversial and polarizing that there’s no doubt. But that doesn’t mean he is some random guy, he is right up there next to Rafa and that’s not a bad spot.

Trolling and Riling up poster is not my hobby, I dont even know who fans most of the people are, but what I've written in reality. Djokovic is vilified because of him chasing Federer's records and also because of his game being boring, this has made him sorta of a public enemy for Fedfans and Rafans, if you see Twitter then you will find 2 fanbases vs 1, that explains it. Djoker is unpopular as well in many ways, the speed at which he became an enemy fans in Australia is not something which Federer would have become if Federer had refused the vaccine. Plus Federer has hit ballboys as well in the past, he has never been DQ'd. These things are reality.

 

[tex123]

What Roger and Rafa did for men's tennis after Sampras era cannot be matched. They drew in million of fans who were not into tennis and made it a huge global sport on another level. The rivalry was just perfect - the suave approach matched by macho brute force. People can never forget that.

Novak just came in for the ride. He never made any kind of emotional history. He can make up numbers by beating poor gens. Everyone knows it means f-all. Having said that, I certainly appreciate how he competed with Roger and Rafa.

 

[Razer]

What Roger and Rafa did for men's tennis after Sampras era cannot be matched. They drew in million of fans who were not into tennis and made it a huge global sport on another level. The rivalry was just perfect - the suave approach matched by macho brute force. People can never forget that.

Novak just came in for the ride. He never made any kind of emotional history. He can make up numbers by beating poor gens. Everyone knows it means f-all. Having said that, I certainly appreciate how he competed with Roger and Rafa.

Even Novak added many Slavic Fans to the game.

 

[tex123]

Even Novak added many Slavic Fans to the game.

Certainly great to see.

 

[junior74]

The world is getting stranger by the hour.

Looks like it's impossible to prefer something that is not "best".

We're advocating diversity and demanding unison at the same time. Really bizarre.

 

[pirhaksar]

Trolling and Riling up poster is not my hobby, I dont even know who fans most of the people are, but what I've written in reality. Djokovic is vilified because of him chasing Federer's records and also because of his game being boring, this has made him sorta of a public enemy for Fedfans and Rafans, if you see Twitter then you will find 2 fanbases vs 1, that explains it. Djoker is unpopular as well in many ways, the speed at which he became an enemy fans in Australia is not something which Federer would have become if Federer had refused the vaccine. Plus Federer has hit ballboys as well in the past, he has never been DQ'd. These things are reality.

Yes that’s because of the inherent bias already established. I agree with the Roger getting away with stuff etc and the emotional impact driving some of it. If your kid breaks your window playing vs neighbors kid breaking your window while playing with your kid - once you like/love someone whatever they do is forgiven or ignored or not analyzed but you don’t lot like someone (reasons are irrelevant here) then everything they do gets micro analyzed and criticized. Add on media who writes click bait crap, it gets amplified.
He is not popular relative to Roger and that’s the key. It’s not like he is some schmuck. Could he be less vocal and polarizing with some of his antics, yes. Would being so suddenly change the opinion of fans and media and fedal fans, I doubt very much. There’s no doubt he craves the love and adoration of Roger but he has finally and rightly realized he will never get that. Best to focus on what he can control with respect to his legacy which is what he is doing breaking records every day now sending his fans into overdrive and his detractors looking for reasons why to hate him even more.

 

[Tennfan123]

Poor Nolefam. They have the numbers and facts but continue to bother fighting these minor things. And they are armed with delusions (4-4, 2-1 is a tie?), ignorance, and conspiracies.
The horror!

 

[mike danny]

What Roger and Rafa did for men's tennis after Sampras era cannot be matched. They drew in million of fans who were not into tennis and made it a huge global sport on another level. The rivalry was just perfect - the suave approach matched by macho brute force. People can never forget that.

Novak just came in for the ride. He never made any kind of emotional history. He can make up numbers by beating poor gens. Everyone knows it means f-all. Having said that, I certainly appreciate how he competed with Roger and Rafa.

Novak did make history by breaking through the Fedal duopoly in 2011 and establishing his own dominance.

But his last several slams certainly don't change my overall perception of him. I don't view him any differently to how I did 6 years ago.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Trolling and Riling up poster is not my hobby, I dont even know who fans most of the people are, but what I've written in reality. Djokovic is vilified because of him chasing Federer's records and also because of his game being boring, this has made him sorta of a public enemy for Fedfans and Rafans, if you see Twitter then you will find 2 fanbases vs 1, that explains it. Djoker is unpopular as well in many ways, the speed at which he became an enemy fans in Australia is not something which Federer would have become if Federer had refused the vaccine. Plus Federer has hit ballboys as well in the past, he has never been DQ'd. These things are reality.

A question about the emboldened: Is that not something that emerged over the last two or so years? Just based on forums, it was Djo and Rafa fanbois v Fed fanbois for a long time. Federer's 2017 gave Djo fans new arguments against Rafa, but the total shift still didn't come until way after.