What are the best 'stolen sets' that you can think of in big matches? (e.g., 3 return points won in the whole set, yet they won the TB)

jl809

Hall of Fame
Something different.

So I carried out an absolute ROBBERY of a set in Full Ace Tennis vs Djoker (who is basically the final boss) as Ole Rog earlier. Stats attached here:

IMG-2754.jpg


  • 3 return points won
  • 17 serve points lost (Djoker won 32% of return points)
  • 0 BPs
  • 56% first serve rate
  • 47% 2nd serve points won
  • Served 63% of the total points, only won 46% of total points
And yet in the TB, traded minibreaks, got 1 more minibreak to get SP, and converted.

Which got me thinking...

What are the "best" / (worst) sets like this one that have happened IRL?

  • I know for example that in the 2013 Cincy final, Nadal had 0 BPs, and offered 3 in 2 games, and won the match in straight sets via 2 TBs. But he dominated his own service games in general, hitting a high number of unreturned serves and winning more 2nd serve points than Isner
So what are the really big ones? I feel like a Wimbledon 2019 set must be a good one, but iirc none came close to the stats above
 
Last edited:

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Something different.

So I carried out an absolute ROBBERY of a set in Full Ace Tennis vs Djoker (who is basically the final boss) as Ole Rog earlier. Stats attached here:

IMG-2754.jpg


  • 3 return points won
  • 17 serve points lost (Djoker won 32% of return points)
  • 0 BPs
  • 56% first serve rate
  • 47% 2nd serve points won
  • Served 63% of the total points, only won 46% of total points
And yet in the TB, traded minibreaks, got 1 more minibreak to get SP, and converted.

Which got me thinking...

What are the "best" / (worst) sets like this one that have happened IRL?

  • I know for example that in the 2013 Cincy final, Nadal had 0 BPs, and offered 3 in 2 games, and won the match in straight sets via 2 TBs. But he dominated his own service games in general, hitting a high number of unreturned serves and winning more 2nd serve points than Isner
So what are the really big ones? I feel like a Wimbledon 2019 set must be a good one, but iirc none came close to the stats above
USO 2007 F first set was stolen irrespective of stats
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer famously dropped zero service points all set (six love holds) then dropped two in the tiebreak to lose it 4-7 against Haas in their 2009 RG 4R match, first set. That's just one short of a potential unbeatable record - winning a set with just one return point won - which I've never heard of happening.
Per TA, Federer won 12 return points in that set, so the ratio of return points won to service points lost was 12/2=6, just a little more than your computer game example.
 
Last edited:

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
Federer famously dropped zero service points all set (six love holds) then dropped two in the tiebreak to lose it 4-7 against Haas in their 2009 RG 4R match, first set. That's just one short of a potential unbeatable record - winning a set with just one return point won - which I've never heard of happening.

He was really nervous that match because of Nadal losing and what it meant. He managed to pull through with that incredible forehand winner but was very close not to.
 

jl809

Hall of Fame
Federer famously dropped zero service points all set (six love holds) then dropped two in the tiebreak to lose it 4-7 against Haas in their 2009 RG 4R match, first set. That's just one short of a potential unbeatable record - winning a set with just one return point won - which I've never heard of happening.
Per TA, Federer won 12 return points in that set, so the ratio of return points won to service points lost was 12/2=6, just a little more than your computer game example.
Bingo, cheers. Love it
 

ALCARAZWON

Professional
He was really nervous that match because of Nadal losing and what it meant. He managed to pull through with that incredible forehand winner but was very close not to.
That turned out to be the most important match or the most important tournament of Federer's career.
If he'd never won the Career Grand Slam, that would downgrade him historically, especially with Nadal/Djokovic winning the Double Career Grand Slam...
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
I think there might have been a set like this in the Federer-Isner match at Laver Cup 2018. I think it was the first set. I saw that match live in Chicago so that's why I remember it.
 

jl809

Hall of Fame
I've never played Full Ace Tennis.
Does it let you play a whole season as Nadal, or do they make you create a player?
Does it have all the real life players?
You can play as any of the current ATP top pros, and for the absolute top guys they have custom animations for all the groundstrokes, serves etc, so they’ve got Federer’s FH, Djoker’s BH, Nadal’s FH etc looking really accurate. Plus they have the legends like PETE, Mac, Lendl, Agassi etc. Using mods you can get classic kits like Fed’s AO 17 or Ned’s AO 09 kits. You can do careers or exhibition matches.

Reason I like it so much besides the accuracy of the playable characters is the ball physics. Unlike Top Spin 4 where the ball randomly slows down after it’s hit, in this game it is pretty realistic
 

ALCARAZWON

Professional
You can play as any of the current ATP top pros, and for the absolute top guys they have custom animations for all the groundstrokes, serves etc, so they’ve got Federer’s FH, Djoker’s BH, Nadal’s FH etc looking really accurate. Plus they have the legends like PETE, Mac, Lendl, Agassi etc. Using mods you can get classic kits like Fed’s AO 17 or Ned’s AO 09 kits. You can do careers or exhibition matches.

Reason I like it so much besides the accuracy of the playable characters is the ball physics. Unlike Top Spin 4 where the ball randomly slows down after it’s hit, in this game it is pretty realistic
Sounds perfect (y)
I usually only play games on ps4, but for this computational masterpiece I'll make an exception.
 
it was a close match, so not a 'robbery' exactly, but:

michael stich beat stefan edberg in the wimbledon SF 46 76 76 76. never broke edberg's serve, and if my memory is right on this one, edberg might not have been broken the entire tournament.

Edberg did drop serve against McEnroe in round 4.

Per ATP stats, he also dropped serve once against Van Rensburg.
 
Last edited:
Federer famously dropped zero service points all set (six love holds) then dropped two in the tiebreak to lose it 4-7 against Haas in their 2009 RG 4R match, first set. That's just one short of a potential unbeatable record - winning a set with just one return point won - which I've never heard of happening.
Per TA, Federer won 12 return points in that set, so the ratio of return points won to service points lost was 12/2=6, just a little more than your computer game example.

I was going to mention this and that was on Clay as well. Goes to show you the quirkiness and relative in efficiency of the tennis scoring system.
 

Waspsting

Hall of Fame
So I carried out an absolute ROBBERY of a set in Full Ace Tennis vs Djoker (who is basically the final boss) as Ole Rog earlier. Stats attached here:

IMG-2754.jpg


  • 3 return points won
  • 17 serve points lost (Djoker won 32% of return points)
  • 0 BPs
  • 56% first serve rate
  • 47% 2nd serve points won
  • Served 63% of the total points, only won 46% of total points
And yet in the TB, traded minibreaks, got 1 more minibreak to get SP, and converted.

Which got me thinking...

What are the "best" / (worst) sets like this one that have happened IRL?

I've got something that's so freakishly similar that you'll think I'm making it up

2018 Halle final, 1st set, Coric beats Federer 7-6(6)
Going into 'breaker...
- 3 return points won
- 15 serve points lost (Fed won 34% return points)
- 0 BPs
- 70% first serve rate
- 46% 2nd serve points won
- Served 62% of total points, only won 45% of total points

in TB, traded minibreaks, got 1 more minibreak to get SP and converted (Fed led 6-4, with a serve point to come)

Basic Stats for set (including TB) -
- 1st serve in - Coric 71%, Fed 82%
- 1st serve won - Coric 78%, Fed 93%
- 2nd serve won - Coric 47%, Fed 50%
BPs - Coric 0, Fed 0/1

How is it your winners/UEs stuff is so much better than his?
--------------

I like sets like this. Few others that come to mind (none of them tiebreakers)

1) '04 Indian Wells, Agassi beats Federer 6-4

"Agassi takes first set with 1 break, a terrible game from Fed with 2 double faults and 2 FH UEs (1 of them on the move and not too easy). In remaining 4 return games, Agassi wins 1 point (a double fault). Not only can he hardly win a point, he can barely make a return. His return rate for the set is 6/19 or 31.6%. He himself holds fairly comfortably - he serves 27 points in set to Fed's 22 and doesn't face break point - but is down 0-15 three times, once going on to 15-30 from there. Not much - but anything looks substantial compared to how he's completely shut out returning other than the break"

2) '80 Wimby, Connors beats McEnroe 6-3

"Second set is hell of a struggle. Both players hold to 30 once and remaining 7 games all go to deuce and/or have break points in them. Connors in particular is put through the wringer and serves 62 points or 12.4 per game, including a mammoth 26 point game. Mac has it easier and serves just 28 or 7 a game

What matters is Connors breaks (1/3 from 2 games), Mac doesn't (0/13 from 4 games) to win the set

The 26 point game is particularly thrilling. Mac has 8 break points in it, Connors just 3 game points. Just about everything that can happen on those break points, does - 1st serves and 2nd serves, good returns and not so good ones, unreturned serves and Connors' sole ace, baseline rallies developing, 1 or other player rallying to net, Connors serve-volleying and getting easy volleys or tough ones. Everything that is, bar Mac winning any of the points"

3) '85 French, Wilander beats McEnroe 7-5

"In second set, McEnroe has 8 break points in 4 games to Wilander's 0 as he steps up to serve to take the match into a tiebreak. 4 points later, the set is over - possibly the worst service game McEnroe had in his career (3 third ball UEs - 1 volley and 2 regulation BH cc's to open court - and a double fault). Wilander served 64 points in the set, McEnroe exactly half that amount

4) '89 French, Chang beats Edberg 6-4

"Particularly crucial is 4th set. After players trade breaks early, virtually every Chang service game turns into a monumental tussle. He holds in games lasting 18 points (4 break points), to love, 12 points (5 break points - including from down 0-40) and 8 points (1 break point), while Edberg holds to 15 twice and is taken to deuce once (no break points)

All that counts for nothing for Edberg because he's broken to 30 to give up the set. In short, Chang is 1/1, Edberg 0/11 (3 games)... and its Chang's break that ends the set. Chang serves 47 points, Edberg 30
To rub it in, first game of 5th set carries on in same vein and lasts 18 points. And Edberg breaks."
 

jl809

Hall of Fame
I've got something that's so freakishly similar that you'll think I'm making it up

2018 Halle final, 1st set, Coric beats Federer 7-6(6)
Going into 'breaker...
- 3 return points won
- 15 serve points lost (Fed won 34% return points)
- 0 BPs
- 70% first serve rate
- 46% 2nd serve points won
- Served 62% of total points, only won 45% of total points

in TB, traded minibreaks, got 1 more minibreak to get SP and converted (Fed led 6-4, with a serve point to come)

Basic Stats for set (including TB) -
- 1st serve in - Coric 71%, Fed 82%
- 1st serve won - Coric 78%, Fed 93%
- 2nd serve won - Coric 47%, Fed 50%
BPs - Coric 0, Fed 0/1

How is it your winners/UEs stuff is so much better than his?
--------------

I like sets like this. Few others that come to mind (none of them tiebreakers)

1) '04 Indian Wells, Agassi beats Federer 6-4

"Agassi takes first set with 1 break, a terrible game from Fed with 2 double faults and 2 FH UEs (1 of them on the move and not too easy). In remaining 4 return games, Agassi wins 1 point (a double fault). Not only can he hardly win a point, he can barely make a return. His return rate for the set is 6/19 or 31.6%. He himself holds fairly comfortably - he serves 27 points in set to Fed's 22 and doesn't face break point - but is down 0-15 three times, once going on to 15-30 from there. Not much - but anything looks substantial compared to how he's completely shut out returning other than the break"

2) '80 Wimby, Connors beats McEnroe 6-3

"Second set is hell of a struggle. Both players hold to 30 once and remaining 7 games all go to deuce and/or have break points in them. Connors in particular is put through the wringer and serves 62 points or 12.4 per game, including a mammoth 26 point game. Mac has it easier and serves just 28 or 7 a game

What matters is Connors breaks (1/3 from 2 games), Mac doesn't (0/13 from 4 games) to win the set

The 26 point game is particularly thrilling. Mac has 8 break points in it, Connors just 3 game points. Just about everything that can happen on those break points, does - 1st serves and 2nd serves, good returns and not so good ones, unreturned serves and Connors' sole ace, baseline rallies developing, 1 or other player rallying to net, Connors serve-volleying and getting easy volleys or tough ones. Everything that is, bar Mac winning any of the points"

3) '85 French, Wilander beats McEnroe 7-5

"In second set, McEnroe has 8 break points in 4 games to Wilander's 0 as he steps up to serve to take the match into a tiebreak. 4 points later, the set is over - possibly the worst service game McEnroe had in his career (3 third ball UEs - 1 volley and 2 regulation BH cc's to open court - and a double fault). Wilander served 64 points in the set, McEnroe exactly half that amount

4) '89 French, Chang beats Edberg 6-4

"Particularly crucial is 4th set. After players trade breaks early, virtually every Chang service game turns into a monumental tussle. He holds in games lasting 18 points (4 break points), to love, 12 points (5 break points - including from down 0-40) and 8 points (1 break point), while Edberg holds to 15 twice and is taken to deuce once (no break points)

All that counts for nothing for Edberg because he's broken to 30 to give up the set. In short, Chang is 1/1, Edberg 0/11 (3 games)... and its Chang's break that ends the set. Chang serves 47 points, Edberg 30
To rub it in, first game of 5th set carries on in same vein and lasts 18 points. And Edberg breaks."

w=500


Incredible! Very uncanny as you say

Poor 18’erer, I think that match was my first inkling that there might not be the grand return of 2017.

As for the others gems, that Mac - Edberg one is astonishing, almost like Mac was “underdone” by having so little to do on serve before crunch time. This in turn makes me wonder.. what is the lowest % of points in a set that were served by the loser of it? 33% is down there… a topic for another thread sometime maybe
 

Santis

Rookie
Don't know about stats, but that first set Nadal won against Zverev in FO 22 was crazy...if memory serves me right, he hit the first winner of the set during the tiebreaker.
 

ALCARAZWON

Professional
Don't know about stats, but that first set Nadal won against Zverev in FO 22 was crazy...if memory serves me right, he hit the first winner of the set during the tiebreaker.
That was the most entertaining set of tennis I've ever seen, both sets.
The amount of struggle behind each shot for both players, was incredible.
It really changed my definition of entertainment, and there may never be a more entertaining tennis match than Nadal-Zverev Roland Garros 2022.
And Zverev's traumatic injury was just the icing on my cake.
 

Santis

Rookie
That was the most entertaining set of tennis I've ever seen, both sets.
The amount of struggle behind each shot for both players, was incredible.
It really changed my definition of entertainment, and there may never be a more entertaining tennis match than Nadal-Zverev Roland Garros 2022.
And Zverev's traumatic injury was just the icing on my cake.
Yeah agreed. If it had gone the distance, it would surely have been the longest match ever played in FO...what was it like! 3 hours for first 2 sets or something...
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Yeah agreed. If it had gone the distance, it would surely have been the longest match ever played in FO...what was it like! 3 hours for first 2 sets or something...
Considering the brutal conditions, chances are one of the two players would have physically collapsed at some point.

It was one of the slowest playing courts I've ever seen, also warm and humid with no wind, so the heat index was really high.

Those conditions were simply unfit for playing pro tennis. I hope the RG organization has improved the ventilation under the closed roof since then.
 
Last edited:

RS

Bionic Poster
Top spin 5 apparently out next year (although the trailer looks crap)
I used to play Virtua Tennis on Xbox years ago but it wasn't how I expected it. When you played on the ATP tour there was no BO5 matches so it was a watered down version.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
That was the most entertaining set of tennis I've ever seen, both sets.
The amount of struggle behind each shot for both players, was incredible.
It really changed my definition of entertainment, and there may never be a more entertaining tennis match than Nadal-Zverev Roland Garros 2022.
And Zverev's traumatic injury was just the icing on my cake.
Think it was just over 3 hours before the match ended the way it did.
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
as for the entire match, besides wimby 2019 final, there is this one:

Yevgeny Kafelnikov vs Richard Krajicek 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 1-6, 7-6 at the us open 1999.
 

Phenomenal

Professional
Tsist won zero point on return in AO qf 2021 third set till 6-5 0-40 and won the set against Rafa
I would have said the same. Tsitsi won either 1 or 2 points as far as i remember until tiebreak. Also Nadal missed overheads in the tiebreak to lose it. Tsitsipas eventually won the match in 5.
It was the second time Nadal lost a slam match after being up 2-0.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NAS

Mustard

Bionic Poster
michael stich beat stefan edberg in the wimbledon SF 46 76 76 76, never broke edberg's serve
The only break of serve in that match was Stich serving at 2-2 in the first set and getting broken. Edberg led 4-2 in the second set tiebreak, double faulted twice and lost the tiebreak 5-7. When Edberg was set point down in the third set tiebreak, Edberg had a horrible mis-hit overhead smash. In the fourth set tiebreak, Stich just seemed a bit more hungry to finish it off.

It was a weird way for the defending champion Edberg to go out, i.e. to win 1991 Queen's Club without dropping a set, to get to the 1991 Wimbledon semi finals without dropping a set, to then hold serve in all 23 of your service games in the semi final, but still lose the semi final anyway.
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
The only break of serve in that match was Stich serving at 2-2 in the first set and getting broken. Edberg led 4-2 in the second set tiebreak, double faulted twice and lost the tiebreak 5-7. When Edberg was set point down in the third set tiebreak, Edberg had a horrible mis-hit overhead smash. In the fourth set tiebreak, Stich just seemed a bit more hungry to finish it off.

It was a weird way for the defending champion Edberg to go out, i.e. to win 1991 Queen's Club without dropping a set, to get to the 1991 Wimbledon semi finals without dropping a set, to then hold serve in all 23 of your service games in the semi final, but still lose the semi final anyway.
yep i was a huge edberg fan...that sucked.

credit to stich though, great fortnight for him. played incredibly well to beat becker in the final as well.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Considering the brutal conditions, chances are one of the two players would have physically collapsed at some point.

It was one of the slowest playing courts I've ever seen, also warm and humid with no wind, so the heat index was really high.

Those conditions were simply unfit for playing pro tennis. I hope the RG organization has improved the ventilation under the closed roof since then.
Strongrule dixit: DO!
8-B
 
Top