What is the best match each player played but still lost
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Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Alternatively, if Roddick was actually “extremely clutch”, the match could’ve been over in straights. Losing a set from 6-2 up in a tiebreak is completely unacceptable from a professional level player.
RS
Bionic Poster
Gave it a watch.
joe sch
Legend
Roddick - 2009 Wimbledon (duh) was first in my mind but soo many including ones listed above. More details ...
Federer won 5–7, 7–6(8–6), 7–6(7–5), 3–6, 16–14.[1] This match was historic as it saw Federer capture his fifteenth major title, breaking the all-time Grand Slam record held by Pete Sampras. The victory also caused Federer to reclaim the world number 1 ranking from his rival Rafael Nadal.
2009 Wimbledon Championships – Men's singles final - Wikipedia
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Still waiting on the right answer for Rafa
RS
Bionic Poster
What's yours? Wim 07 F or Wim 18 SF or something?
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Did you have to learn how to be this odious or did you just come out of the shoot that way?
tacotanium
Professional
One of them was Fed 2009 USO Final, played well with DP's powerful FH, came down to 1/4" inch from winning.
tacotanium
Professional
Never mind, I got that wrong, that 1/4" was for break point. lol.
cb4_89
New User
I think Alcaraz at Cinci 2023 against Novak was a higher level than the Rafa IW match. Can't really disagree with any of the others though.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Mighty Peakovic lost a tiebreak from 6-3 up.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
His GOAT mental strength is grossly overrated.
RS
Bionic Poster
Roddick Wim 09 final vs Djokovic Wim 15 final 10 match series?
RS
Bionic Poster
Mental strength is general. The big 3 are not so far ahead of the field because they are so much "mentally stronger"
RS
Bionic Poster
Done with making opening threads but you can always do it.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
"Mental strength" has been accurately explained by a few posters here. It's not a coincidence that when it gets tight, PETE serves an ace, Novak nails a return winner, Fred fires a FH winner and so on. It's what they do best and it works even under pressure as long as they perform good enough. Unless it's 2019 Wimbledon we're looking at, but even there Djokovic managed to stay with him, even if not for the whole time, but just enough to make it count when it matters.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
But the same reason PETE can serve an ace on a big point or Fed can rip an inside out FH winner break point down is because they can do those two things at 15-0 better than anyone. At any point really. You’d favor Nadal or Djokovic in a final set TB for the exact same reason your favor them at the start of the match.
Because they’re much better than their opponent. Just generally it’s much easier to execute things under pressure when you know you have the advantage in a neutral point, which all of them do.
I do believe in mental midgetry being a real factor to an extent but not mental strength.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Let's say it takes a bit of a mental focus to at least stay as good in those important moments as you were throughout the match, especially when you're 5 hours on the court aleardy.
Mental midgetry is well documented in tennis, so no objections there.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Federer going 16-1 in TBs in SF/F of Wimbledon (sure some were against weaker opponents, but against the 4 best opponents he faced in all those years, 07 Ned, 08 Ned, 09 Roddick, 04 Roddick he went 7-0 in tiebreaks) or having better numbers against the top 10 in 2004 vs the field, or Pete's serve numbers in Wimbledon finals vs the rest of the field is going above and beyond against the best players though. Djokovic certainly didn't have a habit of raising his game like this, Ned on clay beat up on so much hapless cannon fodder I doubt it's the case for him either. However I think Nadal's numbers on break points are quite good though, and by the eye test he raises his aggression down BPs, at least the good versions of Nadal.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
b-but he hit 100 winners!!!
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
6-3 can be just a minibreak in tiebreak.
The fact the Roger, the grass goat, had 2 pts on serve means 6-3 lead is great but its no big choke.
Djokovic is mentally far better player than Federer.
The fact the Roger, the grass goat, had 2 pts on serve means 6-3 lead is great but its no big choke.
Djokovic is mentally far better player than Federer.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
A match where he got thrashed after 2 sets? Is this the best sinner can play. Ridiculous.
dking68
Legend
Sinner was really in control. I was shocked how he well he was playing
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
If someone is in control,, they don't get smashed for 3 straight sets. You talk just out of some misguided loyalty towards sinner.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Sinner was better in the US Open match against Alcaraz.
dking68
Legend
Nah Sinner was very dominant in the Wimbledon match, he actually was in a winning position
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Hahaha more time on ttw ok
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Those last three sets were pretty crap though.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
If you play sports, you know that when you believe you are the better player who deserves to win a match, you can execute well under pressure which manifests itself as mental strength and the ability to complete impossible-looking comebacks. Conversely, if you don’t have that self-belief, you will miss the sitters or serve poorly when on the threshold of winning. This is why Djokovic is strong against everyone on key points since 2011 except when he played Rafa at the FO (2013, 2022), Federer is strong against everyone except against Djokovic (USO 2010/2011/2015, W2019) or Rafa on clay (numerous), Nadal wilts against Djokovic on grass/hard (2012AO, 2018W) etc.
Still wondering why Djokovic choked against Alcaraz at Wimbledon this year because presumably he should have had the belief that he is better on Center court. Getting old also chips away at this mental belief of being invulnerable and I wonder if the Wimbledon final is a fore-runner of many more instances to come in the future of Djokovic snatching defeat from the jaws of victory against the young stars.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Yes, he has worked on the mental game. I didn't like his attitude around 2016 but it's just part of his character, to always be inquisitive and sometimes he followed people like Pepe Imaz as well.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic had 6 set points, two on his own serve, and Federer missed first serves on 3 of the 4 other ones, granted one of those second serves was extremely good. Djokovic made 2 unforced errors, and had 2 very nervy FHs (one was a sitter that he hit barely past the service line, the other was a fairly straightforward second serve return that he mishit well inside the service line). He also had another very nervy FH miss at 10-10.
Compared to Roddick losing 4 set points, two on his serve, with one bad error, one brilliant shot by Federer and two good first serves by Federer. Had a bad approach and hashed the half volley at 6-6, but Djokovic hit a far worse approach shot off a complete sitter at 6-5, and then he made an easy UFE to give Fed the set, but Djokovic's FH miss at 10-10 was even worse.
So Djokovic seems to have mugged quite a bit harder and had more opportunities to take the set. Not even going to mention how Federer was in his prime in 09 and was much better in all areas of the game and much more confident than in 15, but I guess I just did.
RS
Bionic Poster
Who played at a higher level?
1. Federer USO 08 final or Safin AO 05 SF
2. Federer AO 09 QF or Nadal Wim 07 final
3. Hewitt Wim 02 final or Djokovic USO 15 final
4. Federer USO 06 final or Nadal Rome 06 final
5. Federer Wim 09 final or Roddick USO 03 final
6. Murray Wim 13 final or Murray AO 12 SF
1. Federer USO 08 final or Safin AO 05 SF
2. Federer AO 09 QF or Nadal Wim 07 final
3. Hewitt Wim 02 final or Djokovic USO 15 final
4. Federer USO 06 final or Nadal Rome 06 final
5. Federer Wim 09 final or Roddick USO 03 final
6. Murray Wim 13 final or Murray AO 12 SF
RS
Bionic Poster
What chance does Roddick 09 have of beating Djokovic 15 both in final form?
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
He lost 6-3 6-2 6-2 in the last three sets. Doesn't look like being in a winning position for me.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yall STILL haven gotten Rafa right smh
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Fair but that was an exception to Roddick’s norm for that match. A notorious exception, but an exception nonetheless.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Doha 2010 against Davydenko?
Slam or other?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
metsman
G.O.A.T.
roflmao
Slam or other?
Subway Tennis
Legend
It’s debatable, you’re right. I just can’t believe how in control Nadal was in that match. But you’re right his level at Wimbledon 2007 was higher.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Using points stats is also an overly simplistic way of establishing Federer was the better player, since Roddick had probably the best sequenced serving day in the history of tennis (i.e. the points he lost on serve were so perfectly sequenced with his unreturnables, that just getting to 30 or even deuce would mean very little). As a result, 6 of the 7 BPs he faced were in 2 separate games, 4 hours apart. So given that the fact that Federer was getting to 15 or 30 more often mean nothing. Instead you just have to look at the match.
First set - Basically dead even until 5-5, then Federer had some break points. On 3 of them, Roddick hit great serves, yes they could have been returned and Federer did make a habit of returning such serves in 03-07, but this is 2009, and the serves were a 108 handcuffing body 2nd serve, and then 138 and 139 to the corners. Federer barely missed a FH on the 4th. Then of course Roddick broke with a winner, 1 FE, and one borderline FE/UFE. Anyways, this just seems like Roddick being better at the end of the set, I don't see it pointing to Federer being the better player.
Second set - same thing, dead even until the breaker, any half chances sniffed out with serving. Then in the breaker, Roddick was the better player till he wasn't, reverse of the first set.
Third set - Federer the better player, clearly.
Fourth set - Roddick the better player clearly.
Fifth set - I would say Federer looked a bit sharper visually, but was completely kept at bay by Roddick's serving, but ultimately until the last game it was Roddick with the significant chance.
So honestly up until 15-14 I think you can make a case for either guy being the better player. Obviously what happened then matters a ton, but the narrative that Federer was dominating him throughout and Roddick somehow squeaked into it being a long match is wrong. He may not have looked as pretty, but end result was every bit as good as Federer for 99% of the match. He was very clutch on serve, and clustered points on the return marvelously despite being useless in most games, similar to what a late career Sampras would do, but when Pete did it, are we going to say he was being outplayed?
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