Who is 3rd best HC player in world now?

3rd best HC player RIGHT NOW

  • Karatsev

    Votes: 16 24.2%

  • Rublev

    Votes: 9 13.6%

  • Tsitsipas

    Votes: 6 9.1%

  • Thiem

    Votes: 2 3.0%

  • Zverev

    Votes: 8 12.1%

  • Nadal

    Votes: 25 37.9%
  • Total voters
    66
BGod

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Thiem is 2nd. Current USO champion, current IW champion, last year AO finalist and last 2 WTF runner up.

3rd would be Medvedev via his WTF title and AO final.

But poll doesn't have Med so I didn't vote.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
It's a good question.

Nadal has played so few hardcourt events in the last year and has lost to Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Thiem and Zverev in his last three hardcourt events so it can't be him.

Thiem is in such a slump to start this year that it can't be him either.

Too early to give it to Karatsev, and Tsitsipas still loses to too many players ranked beneath him to get the spot.

Rublev would be an attractive choice but I'm going to go with Zverev. Aside from his loss on the slow courts of Rotterdam, he has only lost (repeatedly) to Djokovic and Medvedev in recent HC events, and of course lost to Thiem in a winnable US Open final. Even beat Nadal in the last six months on a hard court so it has to be him.
 
Jason Swerve

Jason Swerve

Hall of Fame
upchuck said:
It's a good question.

Nadal has played so few hardcourt events in the last year and has lost to Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Thiem and Zverev in his last three hardcourt events so it can't be him.

Thiem is in such a slump to start this year that it can't be him either.

Too early to give it to Karatsev, and Tsitsipas still loses to too many players ranked beneath him to get the spot.

Rublev would be an attractive choice but I'm going to go with Zverev. Aside from his loss on the slow courts of Rotterdam, he has only lost (repeatedly) to Djokovic and Medvedev in recent HC events, and of course lost to Thiem in a winnable US Open final. Even beat Nadal in the last six months on a hard court so it has to be him.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Now I can get into some arguments without actually having to watch them play.
 
HardCourtMaestro

HardCourtMaestro

Rookie
Absolutely a fit and firing Federer. But he could be finished now tbh, if he dosen't play clay that is probably it. Thiem, as much as I like the guy and his style of play looks finished to me, he plays low IQ tennis too you can't waste that much energy and win slams. And goes without saying would be slamless not for lineswoman incident. But a pre injury Fed should beat the rest of the tour, and mental midget next gen. Maybe Tsitipas runs it close on hards, but hard to say really as Fed was injured in that slam he beat him in.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
It's a good question.

Nadal has played so few hardcourt events in the last year and has lost to Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Thiem and Zverev in his last three hardcourt events so it can't be him.

Thiem is in such a slump to start this year that it can't be him either.

Too early to give it to Karatsev, and Tsitsipas still loses to too many players ranked beneath him to get the spot.

Rublev would be an attractive choice but I'm going to go with Zverev. Aside from his loss on the slow courts of Rotterdam, he has only lost (repeatedly) to Djokovic and Medvedev in recent HC events, and of course lost to Thiem in a winnable US Open final. Even beat Nadal in the last six months on a hard court so it has to be him.
Click to expand...
Well, if we take into account the last 52 weeks, it has to be Thiem and then Medvedev.
 
junior74

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
One title, and you climb all the way to the top! Stronk era proof!
giphy.gif
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
I think "right now" requires that we give greater emphasis to the more recent hard court events. Thiem right now doesn't even look like one of the top five hardcourt players.
Click to expand...
True. But it's still very early and unfortunately with IW cancelled, we still won't get a better picture. I guess Miami will decide it.
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Form wise Tsitsipas is right up there at the moment, he has been playing some great ball in Acapulco.
Achievement wise Thiem, some could even argue that him being USO champ puts him in second place, but I think Meds run on HC has been very good, just lost the decisive HC matches in slams in straights to Thiem and Djokovic which kind of takes the shine off his position.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I would guess it is between Thiem and Zverev. Maybe Zverev is in better form especially if he beats Tsitsipas today in the Acapulco final.
 
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
BGod said:
Thiem is 2nd. Current USO champion, current IW champion, last year AO finalist and last 2 WTF runner up.

3rd would be Medvedev via his WTF title and AO final.

But poll doesn't have Med so I didn't vote.
Click to expand...
As a Thiem fan, I would put him near bottom of this list based on 2021 form on HC. If this were 2020 you would have a point.
 
Wander

Wander

Hall of Fame
Based on hard court Elo ratings (does not include Federer due to inactivity) it's:
1. Djokovic
2. Medvedev
3. Nadal
4. Rublev
5. Thiem

Karatsev's Elo rating, much like his ATP ranking, has of course not quite caught up to how well he's been playing lately.
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Wander said:
Based on hard court Elo ratings (does not include Federer due to inactivity) it's:
1. Djokovic
2. Medvedev
3. Nadal
4. Rublev
5. Thiem

Karatsev's Elo rating, much like his ATP ranking, has of course not quite caught up to how well he's been playing lately.
Click to expand...
ELO is not part of tennis. No single ATP or ITF webpage includes any ELO rating. Only the unoffical fanmade webpages of Ultimate Tennis Statistics and Tennis Abstract create their own ELO ratings. The fact that both UTS and TA have different ELO values further proves it is completely unreliable to trust those pages as they are merely unofficial fanmade guesses with no more value than a Talk Tennis Warehouse message.
 
Last edited:
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
upchuck said:
It's a good question.
Nadal has played so few hardcourt events in the last year and has lost to Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Thiem and Zverev in his last three hardcourt events so it can't be him.
Click to expand...
It's a bad answer.
Nadal lost to Medvedev and Zverev exclusively on indoor hard. Neither Medvedev nor Zverev have ever defeated Nadal in outdoor hard. Outdoor hard is more relevant than indoor hard to determine who's the best hard court player, as there are no Slams on indoor hard. Nadal dominates the H2H over Medvedev and Zverev 4-0 in outdoor hard.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
Sport said:
It's a bad answer.
Nadal lost to Medvedev and Zverev exclusively on indoor hard. Neither Medvedev nor Zverev have ever defeated Nadal in outdoor hard. Outdoor hard is more relevant than indoor hard to determine who's the best hard court player, as there are no Slams on indoor hard. Nadal dominates the H2H over Medvedev and Zverev 4-0 in outdoor hard.
Click to expand...
"Right now" "Right now" "Right now." That's the question.
 
-NN-

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
I'll take a fully fit Federer at #2.

Alright alright he hasn't played good tennis in centuries.


Aslan then.

Medvedev at #3.


Come at me.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
Wander said:
Yeah, but Zverev's recent track record prior to that title was less stellar than Rublev's.
Click to expand...
Not in terms of quality of victories, and not when you consider how often Zverev has ran into Djokovic/Medvedev since the tour resumed last year.
 
Tarkovsky

Tarkovsky

Semi-Pro
Wander said:
Based on hard court Elo ratings (does not include Federer due to inactivity) it's:
1. Djokovic
2. Medvedev
3. Nadal
4. Rublev
5. Thiem

Karatsev's Elo rating, much like his ATP ranking, has of course not quite caught up to how well he's been playing lately.
Click to expand...

ELO moves slowly, Karatsev might play the whole year at #3 level until ELO raises him to #3...likewise, ELO drops slowly...ELO is excellent system, but it needs regular data, and tennis is a sport where players don't play with each other on regular basis so tennis ELO is slow to catchup, it's far from perfect, but having all this in mind, it's a very good indication of player's level over a period of time. I like it.
 
USO

USO

Banned
Nadalgaenger said:
We’re talking NOW (March 2021):
Top spot is Djokovic
Medvedev deserves 2nd
Who is next right now?
Click to expand...

BGod said:
Thiem is 2nd. Current USO champion, current IW champion, last year AO finalist and last 2 WTF runner up.

3rd would be Medvedev via his WTF title and AO final.

But poll doesn't have Med so I didn't vote.
Click to expand...

Poll doesn't have Djokovic so I didn't vote.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Sport said:
Nadal lost to Medvedev and Zverev exclusively on indoor hard. Neither Medvedev nor Zverev have ever defeated Nadal in outdoor hard. Outdoor hard is more relevant than indoor hard to determine who's the best hard court player, as there are no Slams on indoor hard. Nadal dominates the H2H over Medvedev and Zverev 4-0 in outdoor hard.
Click to expand...
That seems like kind of a dangerous road for a Nadal fan to go down. That line of reasoning would imply hard courts in general are more relevant than any other surface in determining who the best player on tour is.
 
M

MadariKatu

Hall of Fame
I think the pandemic has shaken things a little... I rather wait until the tour gets stable again before thinking an answer to that. I think the north american summer swing can give us a good idea right before the us open. As of now, too many players are injured, or don't have enough matches, are skipping tournaments or something else.

I do feel like Tsitsipas has stepped up as of late, despite him losing vs Zverev in Acapulco.
 
beard

beard

Legend
Sport said:
ELO is not part of tennis. No single ATP or ITF webpage includes any ELO rating. Only the unoffical fanmade webpages of Ultimate Tennis Statistics and Tennis Abstract create their own ELO ratings. The fact that both UTS and TA have different ELO values further proves it is completely unreliable to trust those pages as they are merely unofficial fanmade guesses with no more value than a Talk Tennis Warehouse message.
Click to expand...
Not saying ELO is great, but there is no 100% accurate system for measuring tennis success... Milion systems, million opinions... I like more every system that is based on numbers, because numbers are what they are, while opinions are like ass, everyone has one...
 
beard

beard

Legend
On topic...
It's very hard to know who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th hard court player at the moment...

Differences are very slim, and between Nadal, Thiem, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Zverev, anyone can beat anyone on given day... Yesterday Tsitsipas was favorite against Zverev, had h2h lead, and yet he lost...

We can say only who is no1 at hc, but even him can lose to any of mentioned players when he has bad day and/or opponent has great day...
 
M

MadariKatu

Hall of Fame
beard said:
Not saying ELO is great, but there is no 100% accurate system for measuring tennis success... Milion systems, million opinions... I like more every system that is based on numbers, because numbers are what they are, while opinions are like ass, everyone has one...
Click to expand...
If there are countless systems based on numbers, and they reflect different things, how is that different from having your own opinion based on whatever you want?
 
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