Who would be greater between Serena and Roger if they both have 17 slams?

[abmk]

LOL Fed also played Soderling or are you forgetting that fact?

I was just completing the list of non-major winners that nadal played in the finals.

Berdych is tough when playing well, he has proven that he is capable of beating every big 4 member apart from Nadal. So listing Berdych as weak is on par with listing Roddick as weak.

BS. berdych can mostly beat those players when they are below par, past their prime. When they are dominant, he usually folds, like vs fed at his peak, vs djoko/nadal in the past few years.

he's nowhere close to roddick, especially mentally. Like I've said before, level of roddick in USO 2007, wimbledon 2004, wimbledon 2009 was far far better than berdych's efforts when he beat sub-par federer in wimbledon 2010 and USO 2012.

and finally, I was just listing the non-major winners there. I wasn't comparing the 'strength' of the players. If I was, I would've listed nalbandian, davydenko, tsonga, coria etc. as well.

And LMAO at listing Gaudio, which major did he play him in? That's like me saying Nadal had to play Safin.

they played 2 CC matches from 2003-05 - when gaudio was playing well, unlike the nadal-safin case.

 

[insideguy]

17 slams in WTA is not the equivalent of 17 slams in ATP. Serena doesn't even hold the record. Several women have more slam titles than her.

Oh no doubt. But she will at least tie crissy and martina. Steffi may be out of reach I dont know. But I was just listing her other accomplishments. They are pretty impressive. Plus she isnt getting punked at 32 like roger is. More slams than anyone ever in the history of the sport after the age of 30. Thats impressive. 17 and 4 in slam finals very impressive.

 

[Midaso240]

17 slams in WTA is not the equivalent of 17 slams in ATP. Serena doesn't even hold the record. Several women have more slam titles than her.

She's -5,and Roger is +3 so she's really 8 slams behind

 

[veroniquem]

Oh no doubt. But she will at least tie crissy and martina. Steffi may be out of reach I dont know. But I was just listing her other accomplishments. They are pretty impressive. Plus she isnt getting punked at 32 like roger is. More slams than anyone ever in the history of the sport after the age of 30. Thats impressive. 17 and 4 in slam finals very impressive.

She is an amazing champion, no doubt about that.

 

[insideguy]

She's -5,and Roger is +3 so she's really 8 slams behind

Again she also has 14 or something like that doubles slams. 3 gold medals, and I think a fed cup. Her career overall has been better.

 

[Tenez101]

Why aren't people claiming that this is a WTA weak era (i.e., Serena beating up on everyone else)? The competition is clearly even weaker than it was for Federer in his prime.

 

[6-3 6-0]

Seriously? Since you've got no male players to compare to the G.O.A.T., you trolls are bringing in the female players? LMAO! :lol:

 

[Praetorian]

They should battle it out, and settle it once and for all.

 

[insideguy]

Why aren't people claiming that this is a WTA weak era (i.e., Serena beating up on everyone else)? The competition is clearly even weaker than it was for Federer in his prime.

Well you could claim that. But really with the ladies other than when Serena first started its always been a weak era. I mean Graf use to sleep walk through most of her draws until Seles came along but then she got stabbed. I mean grafs main rivals were the little spanish girl and the good looking south amerian lady. I think they won 4 slams between them. Graf won everything else. Maritina and Chris were basically it with a few exceptions in their era.

 

[TMF]

Seriously? Since you've got no male players to compare to the G.O.A.T., you trolls are bringing in the female players? LMAO! :lol:

Like I said, the comparison is no difference from comparing a WNBA player to the NBA player. It's two separate sport. Graf set the benchmark in the WTA, all champions..Serena, Seles, Henin, Venus, Hingis etc. should be measure and compare to Graf. Federer set the benchmark in the ATP and players like Nole, Nadal, Sampras are compare to him.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

brb, claiming to be GOAT but failing to serve for the win THREE times.

lol, if it isn't obvious to anyone how poor the wta is right now, idk what to say.

having said that, serena is a very good player, top 10 of all time for sure, but no chance to be number 1. in fact, he adding majors to her total at 32+ is really going to raise even more suspicion as to how weak this era is, considering she only won 8 her first 10 years on tour.

 

[abmk]

Along with winning all the slams multiple times and being an all time great on all surfaces, unlike Federer.

bwahaha .... hilarity at its finest from Professor RalphAgassi.

federer on clay >> serena on clay, especially at RG and its not even close. Just that federer faced nadal. serena didn't even get past the QF of RG for so many years ....

Along with being by far the best player in the World at age 32, when Federer last was at age 26 (or if one is being generous age 28 for the final time). I could go on a long time here, but why bother.

and the comedy continues .....

federer won RG 2009, wim 09, AO 10 ( was in the final in AO 09, USO 09 ), how the ****i** hell was he not the #1 player and best player in the world then ?

oh and yeah, federer was the #1 player at nearly 31 , overtaking djokovic and nadal . reality. deal with it.

 

[TMF]

brb, claiming to be GOAT but failing to serve for the win THREE times.

lol, if it isn't obvious to anyone how poor the wta is right now, idk what to say.

having said that, serena is a very good player, top 10 of all time for sure, but no chance to be number 1. in fact, he adding majors to her total at 32+ is really going to raise even more suspicion as to how weak this era is, considering she only won 8 her first 10 years on tour.

That's why an ATP slam is worth 10 times the WTA slam. It's ridiculous that a player can win games by not having to hit a ball since the other player keep double faulting. There's been too many incidents that occurred in the WTA...they just can't serve, players getting free points left and right.

 

[Midaso240]

Again she also has 14 or something like that doubles slams. 3 gold medals, and I think a fed cup. Her career overall has been better.

No one uses doubles as a tiebreaker,if you're gonna go there then she needs to win about 20-21 singles slams just to surpass Navratilova

 

[insideguy]

brb, claiming to be GOAT but failing to serve for the win THREE times.

lol, if it isn't obvious to anyone how poor the wta is right now, idk what to say.

having said that, serena is a very good player, top 10 of all time for sure, but no chance to be number 1. in fact, he adding majors to her total at 32+ is really going to raise even more suspicion as to how weak this era is, considering she only won 8 her first 10 years on tour.

But the point is when she only won 8 in her first 10 years that was the peak of womens tennis. Now its just back to normal. The fact that she pulled 8 out of that era was impressive. Graf played nobodies most of her career. Literally she either played old greats, or no bodies. No one remembers anyone who was in her age group. Wack Wack forehand slice forehand 6-0,-6-1 and down goes some girl.

 

[insideguy]

No one uses doubles as a tiebreaker,if you're gonna go there then she needs to win about 20-21 singles slams just to surpass Navratilova

Oh no doubt. I still think Martina was the best ever cause she played everything everywhere and won. I was just comparing Serena to Fed.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

That's why an ATP slam is worth 10 times the WTA slam. It's ridiculous that a player can win games by not having to hit a ball since the other player keep double faulting. There's been too many incidents that occurred in the WTA...they just can't serve, players getting free points left and right.

women's tennis in general is just way more errors and way more choke jobs. it's horrible.

 

[r2473]

But the point is when she only won 8 in her first 10 years that was the peak of womens tennis. Now its just back to normal. The fact that she pulled 8 out of that era was impressive. Graf played nobodies most of her career. Literally she either played old greats, or no bodies. No one remembers anyone who was in her age group. Wack Wack forehand slice forehand 6-0,-6-1 and down goes some girl.

That nobody Seles was pretty good before someone stuck a knife in her back.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

But the point is when she only won 8 in her first 10 years that was the peak of womens tennis. Now its just back to normal. The fact that she pulled 8 out of that era was impressive. Graf played nobodies most of her career. Literally she either played old greats, or no bodies. No one remembers anyone who was in her age group. Wack Wack forehand slice forehand 6-0,-6-1 and down goes some girl.

I haven't really given thought as to whether that was the peak for the wta, but this era is shockingly bad. Truthfully there is one other player who is a legit contender (Azarenka) and she'd rank below most any multiple slam winner of the last 25 years.

 

[TMF]

No one uses doubles as a tiebreaker,if you're gonna go there then she needs to win about 20-21 singles slams just to surpass Navratilova

Single and double should be totally separated. There's a list of greatest single players and double players.

If combined, one can argue the Bryan's Brothers is ahead of Borg or Nadal in goat list. But no one mixed with single and double.

 

[insideguy]

That nobody Seles was pretty good before someone stuck a knife in her back.

Yep. She finally got competition and bam stabbed in back.

 

[TMF]

women's tennis in general is just way more errors and way more choke jobs. it's horrible.

And they play only 3 sets. Imagine they were force to play 5 sets, the number of errors could reach triple digit.

 

[insideguy]

I haven't really given thought as to whether that was the peak for the wta, but this era is shockingly bad. Truthfully there is one other player who is a legit contender (Azarenka) and she'd rank below most any multiple slam winner of the last 25 years.

That was easily the peak era in the wta. Its just back to normal now. I mean Chrissy, Martina and Steffi didnt even wakeup till the semis in most of their slam runs and they have pretty much admitted that. Just looking at some quick stats evert made the finals in 34 slams. 34 freaking slams. She competed in 56 slams and made at least the semis in 52 of them lol. She literally played high school girls most of her career.

 

[granddog29]

Seriously? Since you've got no male players to compare to the G.O.A.T., you trolls are bringing in the female players? LMAO! :lol:

Nobody is comparing Serena to Laver. Even Serena fans know Laver is beyond her level (atleast for now). She isnt being compared to any GOAT, only to Federer.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

brb, claiming to be GOAT but failing to serve for the win THREE times.

lol, if it isn't obvious to anyone how poor the wta is right now, idk what to say.

having said that, serena is a very good player, top 10 of all time for sure, but no chance to be number 1. in fact, he adding majors to her total at 32+ is really going to raise even more suspicion as to how weak this era is, considering she only won 8 her first 10 years on tour.

a win is a win....who cares how it happened.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

bwahaha .... hilarity at its finest from Professor RalphAgassi.

federer on clay >> serena on clay, especially at RG and its not even close. Just that federer faced nadal. serena didn't even get past the QF of RG for so many years ....



and the comedy continues .....

federer won RG 2009, wim 09, AO 10 ( was in the final in AO 09, USO 09 ), how the ****i** hell was he not the #1 player and best player in the world then ?

oh and yeah, federer was the #1 player at nearly 31 , overtaking djokovic and nadal . reality. deal with it.

he has 1, serena has 2. try again buddy.

that was the end of the road for fed.he's done. serena has at least another 3-5 years.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Nobody is comparing Serena to Laver. Even Serena fans know Laver is beyond her level (atleast for now). She isnt being compared to any GOAT, only to Federer.

serena plays in a more diverse field than babe ruth laver.

 

[Tenez101]

Yep. She finally got competition and bam stabbed in back.

This is why I'm a bit wary to call Graf the current GOAT. Graf's crazy fan stymied the makings of a great rivalry. Based on what Seles was doing to Graf before the stabbing, she probably would have taken at least 4-5 more slams from Graf. In turn, such defeats might have affected Graf's confidence and further deflated her final slam count.

 

[insideguy]

This is why I'm a bit wary to call Graf the current GOAT. Graf's crazy fan stymied the makings of a great rivalry. Based on what Seles was doing to Graf before the stabbing, she probably would have taken at least 4-5 more slams from Graf. In turn, such defeats might have affected Graf's confidence and further deflated her final slam count.

Yea I agree but in a way you could argue Serena lost Henin and Clisters to burnout or whatever. Not Steffis fault or Serenas thats just how it goes. Hell even Mac and Conners and maybe Lendl lost Borg to burnout. Pete lost Agassi for awhile to burnout. Its just the way it goes.

 

[6-3 6-0]

Nobody is comparing Serena to Laver. Even Serena fans know Laver is beyond her level (atleast for now). She isnt being compared to any GOAT, only to Federer.

You're delusional, my friend! Switch off the trolling mode and you'll understand what I said unless its beyond your abilities

 

[adil1972]

federer without any question he played best of 5 set matches to win 17 slam

federer won 77 singles titles to serena 55 titles

federer no. 1 for 302 weeks behind only navartilova and evert

i have no idea how many weeks serena william has been no. 1

 

[Phoenix1983]

The point is:



....examples of this behavior running wild in this and similar threads. The same attacks over and over again--all centered on the defense of one--and only one player.

This reads like a description of your behaviour on this forum - attacks, again and again, of a personal nature (I.e. questioning the mental health) of posters who happen to be big Federer fans and wish to defend him.

Of course, anyone with half a brain cell has long since worked out that you are a troll and hypocrite - you say that whoever wins the CYGS is GOAT, but can provide no reason for your omission of Budge as the co-GOAT. Therefore proving you don't care a fig for the CYGS (and probably not for Laver either). Your only wish is to troll Federer fans, claiming some absurd veneer of "appealing to history".

Since this is an Internet forum, not a court of law, you can wriggle out of/refuse to answer points which would expose you (ie the Budge point), but rest assured, no one is fooled by you.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

As noted yesterday, the only concern on this board should be the avoidance of delusion born of unchained fandom--which is put on display anytime one player is not priased as a god, (nevermind the utter lack of historical achievement to support their fantasy), hence the venom spitting toward Williams and the aforementioned players 9Laver, Sampras, Nadal, et al) in earlier posts.

Then, there's the sexism angle--the latest ploy of those who cannot possible constuct a rational thought to defend their favorite female players (who never lived up to the hype), so they tear down the entire WTA, as they have a blood hatred for Williams.

The most transparent of all.

Possibly posing a danger to the personal security of the hated players.

 

[heftylefty]

As a Serena fan, this question had enter the realm of absolute lunacy.
Serena is not a greater tennis player than Federer. Period.

Can we compare female tennis players with other female tennis players?
Just a thought.

 

[Rabbit]

If Serena gets to 17....that doesn't even qualify her for GOAT of the women as Court has 24, Graf has 22, and Evert & Navratilova both have 18.

 

[drakulie]

Women's tennis has sucked for the last 10 or so years. The only thing women have provided during this course of time is how to scream/grunt/Squeel like pigs in heat and make the audience think the wta is strong and beautiful.

 

[Rippy]

I would say Federer, because if Serena played on the men's tour, she'd have no slams.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

he has 1, serena has 2. try again buddy.

that was the end of the road for fed.he's done. serena has at least another 3-5 years.

Do you even watch tennis? Fed is a way, way, WAY better clay-court player than Serena. She'd probably even say the same. The fact that the second best clay-courter on the women's side right now is freaking Maria Sharapova tells you all you need to know.

 

[kalyan4fedever]

This Thread is so stupid!? why because how can anyone in right mind compare mens and womens tennis

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Do you even watch tennis? Fed is a way, way, WAY better clay-court player than Serena. She'd probably even say the same. The fact that the second best clay-courter on the women's side right now is freaking Maria Sharapova tells you all you need to know.

If he was a better clay courter, then (according to the majors count-centric Fed defenders' criteria) he would have as many--or more French Open titles than Serena.

...and do not follow the usual defensive line of "well, he faced the greatest clay courter ever," as Federer--IF he's the player his defenders say he is--should have found a way to overcome Nadal.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

...and I expect some--when their frightening hatred of Serena cannot reach a new low, will fall back to:

"am said woman tennis no on level with menz tennis"

...type of posting.

 

[abmk]

If he was a better clay courter, then (according to the majors count-centric Fed defenders' criteria) he would have as many--or more French Open titles than Serena.

...and do not follow the usual defensive line of "well, he faced the greatest clay courter ever," as Federer--IF he's the player his defenders say he is--should have found a way to overcome Nadal.

that's dumb. Serena couldn't even find a way to get past the qf of RG for 9, yes, NINE, years.

in the meanwhile, cow-on-ice sharapova, ~30 year old schaivone , streaky li na win RGs :roll:

I mean Gaudio is treated as a fluke winner on the men's side, but that guy could really play on the red stuff ( even if he was a headcase at times ) and was much better than any of these. His draw in RG 2004 was pretty brutal as well.

 

[abmk]

Do you even watch tennis? Fed is a way, way, WAY better clay-court player than Serena. She'd probably even say the same. The fact that the second best clay-courter on the women's side right now is freaking Maria Sharapova tells you all you need to know.

pretty much this .....

 

[granddog29]

If he was a better clay courter, then (according to the majors count-centric Fed defenders' criteria) he would have as many--or more French Open titles than Serena.

So true. Serena has not only won Roland Garros twice but a much greater variety of tier 1/Masters type events than Federer ever could. She has won the prestigious Rome event twice vs 0 times for Federer. Serena definitely ranks higher all time on clay among women than men. Serena is top 12/top 10 for women, while Federer is barely top 25 on clay for men.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

If he was a better clay courter, then (according to the majors count-centric Fed defenders' criteria) he would have as many--or more French Open titles than Serena.

...and do not follow the usual defensive line of "well, he faced the greatest clay courter ever," as Federer--IF he's the player his defenders say he is--should have found a way to overcome Nadal.

The whole 2>1 is lazy analysis. Fed has reached the final 5 times, Serena 2. Fed has reached the SF or better 7 times, Serena 3. Fed has reached the finals of almost twice as many clay events as Serena has.

But hey, 2>1, right? Lol.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

So true. Serena has not only won Roland Garros twice but a much greater variety of tier 1/Masters type events than Federer ever could. She has won the prestigious Rome event twice vs 0 times for Federer. Serena definitely ranks higher all time on clay among women than men. Serena is top 12/top 10 for women, while Federer is barely top 25 on clay for men.

70% of Serena's clay titles have come in the last 16 months. Makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[Phoenix1983]

...and do not follow the usual defensive line of "well, he faced the greatest clay courter ever," as Federer--IF he's the player his defenders say he is--should have found a way to overcome Nadal.

This is not necessarily true, because nobody is claiming that Federer is flawless; one can be the GOAT, and have the best overall resume, without being perfect. Thus, if you're saying that Fed cant be the GOAT because he couldn't beat Nadal at the FO, I believe you're wrong - and you're also wrong to assume that Fed supporters regard him as a divine being, incapable of doing wrong.

He's just - in all probability - the greatest male player there has yet been.

 

[cknobman]

How is this even a question?

Roger without a doubt. Look at what he has achieved besides Grand Slams titles.

 

[Phoenix1983]

...and I expect some--when their frightening hatred of Serena cannot reach a new low, will fall back to:

"am said woman tennis no on level with menz tennis"

...type of posting.

You should just refer to TMF by name, because we all know that's who you are referring to (and obsessed with).

 

[TMF]

federer without any question he played best of 5 set matches to win 17 slam

federer won 77 singles titles to serena 55 titles

federer no. 1 for 302 weeks behind only navartilova and evert

i have no idea how many weeks serena william has been no. 1

While Fed holds the record for most weeks at #1, Serena currently has 153 weeks, that's 224 weeks behind Graf.