Why does Federer struggle against Simon?

[Ehh]

I honestly can't think why this is.

He has no trouble with flat hitting pusher/grinder type players - look at his record against Hewitt. He even has no trouble against aggressive grinders - look at his record against Davydenko. He has no trouble with moderately heavy topspin grinders like Ferrer - who has never beaten him. Only when you get into excessive topspin grinders like Nadal does Federer begin to have some trouble. And I doubt anyone would accuse Simon of hitting excessive topspin.

So why Simon? He hits a flat ball consistently to Federer's strike zone and he hardly has a slice backhand, so Federer's slice should bother Simon's two-hander. Granted, Simon doesn't miss or make mistakes, but then neither do Hewitt or Ferrer, and they both have woeful records against Federer. And they both have better movement and speed than Simon. So what is it with Simon? Simon hardly has a great net game and rarely goes up there of his own accord, so it's not like he's consistently pressuring Federer to come up with the pass. And Federer's infamous 'short slice' play should theoretically work wonders for drawing Simon out of his comfort zone and into the net.

Historically, trying to simply make Federer hit 'one-more-ball' has not been the way to beat Federer - because Federer will hit that one more ball - and it will be a winner.

So what about Simon's game gives Federer trouble?

 

[Devilito]

every time I watch Simon play i'm like "how does this guy even win matches". But he keeps winning and is in the top 20 so I've given up trying to figure him out. It's pretty much Ferrer is a low budget version of Murray and Simon is a low budget version of Ferrer. About the most boring player on the entire ATP tour.

 

[Tammo]

I think its because his BH is better than his FH, but yet his FH is not that weak, his serve is consistent, and can be hit big. Volleys are above average IMO and movement is fairly good. He is kinda like Benne I think

 

[Relinquis]

ferrer, murray and simon are all defensive grinders, but they don't play exactly the same way. some subtle differences...

• murray junkballs more looking for errors
• ferrer relies on his speed and tries to win through court positioning
• simon focuses on methodical point construction and using his opponent's pace against them to win rallies/force an error

they all focus on consistency, hit high %, run down balls and are pretty infuriating to their opponents because of this, but Simon is clearly the more annoying to attacking players. I feel Ferrer takes the most risks out of these guys, but Murray has the bigger weapons. Simon is probably the most naturally gifted.

 

[merwy]

Maybe it helps if you stop seeing Simon as a mere pusher but more as a counterpuncher. The guy can play tennis. He keeps the ball deep usually and has no trouble hitting the ball in the corners. He moves Federer around. Federer tries to play offensive, but because Simon is such a good counterpuncher he doesn't get troubled by Fed's fast shots and can hit them back as a passing shot or a winner.

I don't understand why someone would say that he can't see why Simon wins matches. He has a pretty solid game. You have to blast him off the court, that's almost your only option to win, unless you can outgrind him like maybe Djokovic, Nadal or Murray only can. Simon isn't just someone who brings balls back. He brings them back deep enough so you can't really do much with it.

PS: In my eyes, Ferrer isn't much of a pusher at all. He hits deep with lots of topspin but tries to go for tough shots (and often misses them) as well. Maybe he tries to play a bit like Nadal but he can't because he's not good enough.

 

[abmk]

after a set , set and half, simon gets used to federer's pace and can redirect it very well .......also he increases the pace of his shot dramatically within a rally more than others like ferrer, hewitt ......

plus throw in the fact that federer wasn't in good form in the 2 occasions that he met him in 2008 and that he went off the boil and started hitting pusher like forehands after set and half in their AO 2011 encounter ....

 

[Mainad]

Maybe it helps if you stop seeing Simon as a mere pusher but more as a counterpuncher. The guy can play tennis. He keeps the ball deep usually and has no trouble hitting the ball in the corners. He moves Federer around. Federer tries to play offensive, but because Simon is such a good counterpuncher he doesn't get troubled by Fed's fast shots and can hit them back as a passing shot or a winner.

I don't understand why someone would say that he can't see why Simon wins matches. He has a pretty solid game. You have to blast him off the court, that's almost your only option to win, unless you can outgrind him like maybe Djokovic, Nadal or Murray only can. Simon isn't just someone who brings balls back. He brings them back deep enough so you can't really do much with it

I like watching Simon play. At his best, it is fascinating to watch him returning the ball deep into the corners and just inside the lines and maintaining a steady rhythm, chasing everything down, suddenly redirecting the ball for a winner and making very few errors. A very skilful and underrated player on here IMO.

He has proved how good he is because he was once a top 10 player (I think he ranked as high as #6 at one point). Unfortunately his career has been derailed by injuries but he's been steadily climbing back up the rankings recently.

 

[SoCal10s]

it's not the way he plays but merely the way he hits the ball .. Simon's hits his shots a bit late and is a very deceptive kind of hit ..he can re-direct his shots with the last moment flick of his wrist.. somewhat like the old time M.Mecir .. same as Soldering's forehand .. it's hard to read and that fraction of a second delay really drives a lot of players crazy getting to the ball too late..

 

[slowfox]

Perhaps just a case of bad match-ups. Some players just don't play well against certain people. Just think about your group of tennis buddies. I imagine against some you just don't play as well...

 

[TheF1Bob]

Maybe it helps if you stop seeing Simon as a mere pusher but more as a counterpuncher. The guy can play tennis. He keeps the ball deep usually and has no trouble hitting the ball in the corners. He moves Federer around. Federer tries to play offensive, but because Simon is such a good counterpuncher he doesn't get troubled by Fed's fast shots and can hit them back as a passing shot or a winner.

I don't understand why someone would say that he can't see why Simon wins matches. He has a pretty solid game. You have to blast him off the court, that's almost your only option to win, unless you can outgrind him like maybe Djokovic, Nadal or Murray only can. Simon isn't just someone who brings balls back. He brings them back deep enough so you can't really do much with it.

PS: In my eyes, Ferrer isn't much of a pusher at all. He hits deep with lots of topspin but tries to go for tough shots (and often misses them) as well. Maybe he tries to play a bit like Nadal but he can't because he's not good enough.

Agree with everything...except the part about Ferrer. 8)

I like watching Simon play. At his best, it is fascinating to watch him returning the ball deep into the corners and just inside the lines and maintaining a steady rhythm, chasing everything down, suddenly redirecting the ball for a winner and making very few errors. A very skilful and underrated player on here IMO.

He has proved how good he is because he was once a top 10 player (I think he ranked as high as #6 at one point). Unfortunately his career has been derailed by injuries but he's been steadily climbing back up the rankings recently.

This as well.

 

[tennisplayer1993]

Federer is getting old, I think thats why he's not as untouchable as he used to be. Also I feel the strength of the field of tennis has gotten stronger in the past few years.

 

[mental midget]

a lot of people struggle with simon. is his the 13th best tennis player in the entire world and has been as high as 6.

 

[Bud]

Simon loves to receive a hard flat ball - which is what Federer hits. He then redirects it to the corners. When he has too much time he seems to make more errors.

 

[smoledman]

Simon loves to receive a hard flat ball - which is what Federer hits. He then redirects it to the corners. When he has too much time he seems to make more errors.

The very definition of a counterpuncher. BTW, Hewitt was exactly that in his early years and had a leading H2H on Federer. These counterpunchers have always given Fed fits.

 

[underground]

Federer is getting old, I think thats why he's not as untouchable as he used to be. Also I feel the strength of the field of tennis has gotten stronger in the past few years.

Yep and the weak-era old man by the name of Haas has beaten the strong era gluten-free GOAT.

 

[smoledman]

Yep and the weak-era old man by the name of Haas has beaten the strong era gluten-free GOAT.

Nobody said that Nole-GOAT will go undefeated against the weak-era clowns.

 

[Nostradamus]

Simon is a very attractive guy. who wouldn't be distracted ?

 

[Bobby Jr]

Simon moves well, has great anticipation and understands the patterns people generally play better than most. It makes him a difficult player to play comfortably - points against have to be constructed better generally if you can't simply blow him off the court.

 

[Phonco]

Another anomaly to add to this is the fact that Gasquet is undefeated against Simon. You'd think that Federer, who does pretty much everythng better than Gasquet, would also be undefeated against Simon, yet he isn't. You could say he had a bad day, but I'm still surprised that a player of Federers caliber could not find a way to win, yet a player like Gasquet could. I'm thinking that Federer was either too stubborn to change his plan, or didn't care about winning.

@Merwy, you say that a player would need to blast him off the court or outgrind him, but I think Gasquet is neither the most aggressive nor the most fit player on tour. I guess you could say that an all-court, variety game can beat Simon, but then I'd have to direct you to the topic at hand.

 

[The_Order]

after a set , set and half, simon gets used to federer's pace and can redirect it very well .......also he increases the pace of his shot dramatically within a rally more than others like ferrer, hewitt ......

plus throw in the fact that federer wasn't in good form in the 2 occasions that he met him in 2008 and that he went off the boil and started hitting pusher like forehands after set and half in their AO 2011 encounter ....

What a surprise throw in the odd excuse for Federer, just for good measure hey?

Simon was in **** form himself in AO11 way off his best.

Can't expect anything more from you Mandy...

 

[NEW_BORN]

What a surprise throw in the odd excuse for Federer, just for good measure hey?

Simon was in **** form himself in AO11 way off his best.

Can't expect anything more from you Mandy...

Actually Simon was coming off a Sydney title the previous wk prior to Aus2011, i wouldn't exact say he was in shiht form.

As for the Fed-Simon match-up, you'll find that in all the matches, Fed dominates the first portion of the match, before Simon settles in and is able to absorb Fed's shots better than most others on tour, which allows him to keep the score close and give himself a shot at winning.

 

[helloworld]

Simon has the ability to counter Federer's attacking shots very well. This is also the ability that Nadal seems to possess as well.

 

[The_Order]

Actually Simon was coming off a Sydney title the previous wk prior to Aus2011, i wouldn't exact say he was in shiht form.

As for the Fed-Simon match-up, you'll find that in all the matches, Fed dominates the first portion of the match, before Simon settles in and is able to absorb Fed's shots better than most others on tour, which allows him to keep the score close and give himself a shot at winning.

Didn't exactly beat anyone special in Sydney and lost in the first round at brisbane.

He was unseeded and nowhere near his best level.

You're right about how Simon absorbs Fed's shots though and how Fed always starts fast against him.

 

[abmk]

What a surprise throw in the odd excuse for Federer, just for good measure hey?

Simon was in **** form himself in AO11 way off his best.

Can't expect anything more from you Mandy...

lol, clueless ... it was observation, not excuse. Saying a player was not in good form is not an excuse ...

simon was coming back from an injury, that's why he was unseeded. he was in pretty decent form by the time of the AO in 2011 ... after getting dismantled by federer in the first set and half, he played very well in that match .....

besides the first point of my post was the very same to which you agreed to :

after a set , set and half, simon gets used to federer's pace and can redirect it very well .......also he increases the pace of his shot dramatically within a rally more than others like ferrer, hewitt ......

You're right about how Simon absorbs Fed's shots though and how Fed always starts fast against him.

saying rafa wasn't in that good form in the second half of 2009 for instance is not an excuse, but an observation ....

but then again, you are just bitter because I owned you time and again

 

[DeShaun]

Simon has:
Fantastic wheels
A good tennis mind
A patient temperament with respect to point construction
An uncanny knack for bleeding pace from his opponents' shots

I doubt there are many guys in the whole world who stand ~5'10" weighing ~165 lbs. who are athletic as Simon; he appears to be athletically well-rounded to a very high degree.

 

[The_Order]

lol, clueless ... it was observation, not excuse. Saying a player was not in good form is not an excuse ...

simon was coming back from an injury, that's why he was unseeded. he was in pretty decent form by the time of the AO in 2011 ... after getting dismantled by federer in the first set and half, he played very well in that match .....

besides the first point of my post was the very same to which you agreed to :

Yes it was, but then you had to throw in that lame excuse for your boy. Simon has always been trouble for Fed. Fed's form dropped because Simon made it drop.

Obviously, you will never understand this because you've never picked up a racquet and played in your life. You seem to think that you're the only one in control of how you play and then you have the cheek to call me clueless, LMFAO you're a flat out joke.

saying rafa wasn't in that good form in the second half of 2009 for instance is not an excuse, but an observation ....

but then again, you are just bitter because I owned you time and again

Bitter over what? You say you owned me? LOL what are you, your own umpire or something?

Of course, you're not going to admit that I pwned you every time and keep saying the same "I owned you" garbage like that, it's common sense isn't it Mandy?

 

[Flash O'Groove]

Yes it was, but then you had to throw in that lame excuse for your boy. Simon has always been trouble for Fed. Fed's form dropped because Simon made it drop.

But you said that Simon was far from is best form, so I don't get your point: is Federer so lame that a far from his best form Simon could make is game drop even lower? Or what?

Have you understood that you are in a thread which try to understood why Federer, despite being considered by some people as the generally better player of the two, struggles against Simon?

 

[abmk]

Yes it was, but then you had to throw in that lame excuse for your boy. Simon has always been trouble for Fed. Fed's form dropped because Simon made it drop.

Obviously, you will never understand this because you've never picked up a racquet and played in your life. You seem to think that you're the only one in control of how you play and then you have the cheek to call me clueless, LMFAO you're a flat out joke.

yeah, because simon controls everything there ... federer's form by itself doesn't have much to do with it .. federer couldn't have played much better even with simon playing well , right !

I already mentioned the part about what simon did well/does well in the matches vs federer ... but federer being the player that he is , if in good form, should've/would've been able to overcome that ....

but then you are the clueless one who thinks that federer's form by itself in those matches had nothing to do with it .... just because simon is playing well, you think federer would automatically struggle with him ... LOL !

Bitter over what? You say you owned me? LOL what are you, your own umpire or something?

Of course, you're not going to admit that I pwned you every time and keep saying the same "I owned you" garbage like that, it's common sense isn't it Mandy?

bitter over me embarrassing you so many times, duh !

 

[abmk]

But you said that Simon was far from is best form, so I don't get your point: is Federer so lame that a far from his best form Simon could make is game drop even lower? Or what?

Have you understood that you are in a thread which try to understood why Federer, despite being considered by some people as the generally better player of the two, struggles against Simon?

LOL, owned .........

 

[The_Order]

yeah, because simon controls everything there ... federer's form by itself doesn't have much to do with it .. federer couldn't have played much better even with simon playing well , right !

I already mentioned the part about what simon did well/does well in the matches vs federer ... but federer being the player that he is , if in good form, should've/would've been able to overcome that ....

but then you are the clueless one who thinks that federer's form by itself in those matches had nothing to do with it .... just because simon is playing well, you think federer would automatically struggle with him ... LOL !

Of course Fed has a say in what goes on too, both players do, but when one player's game clearly troubles the other, then that player's game has more affect on the outcome.

You've used this same lame arse excuse every time, that Fed played crap. You've used it for losses to Berdych, Simon, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. Go check out their h2h with Fed and it becomes perfectly clear that I'm right and you're wrong. Suck it up.

bitter over me embarrassing you so many times, duh !

Sorry, but that's not for you to judge. I haven't ever felt embarrassed by you and never will because I know you're full of crap with all your desperate Fed legacy defending LOL!

 

[The_Order]

But you said that Simon was far from is best form, so I don't get your point: is Federer so lame that a far from his best form Simon could make is game drop even lower? Or what?

Have you understood that you are in a thread which try to understood why Federer, despite being considered by some people as the generally better player of the two, struggles against Simon?

He made the excuse that Fed wasn't in good form. I just pointed out that Simon wasn't in great form either. What's so hard to understand about that?

Simon's game troubles Fed, we've established that, so why is it so hard for you to stomach that when they're both sub par the match was close?

LOL, owned .........

LOL ...................... ............ , stfu Mandy......................................................

You have NFI . ....... ..... about tennis................... LOL.....LMFAO.............

 

[tacou]

I like watching Simon play. At his best, it is fascinating to watch him returning the ball deep into the corners and just inside the lines and maintaining a steady rhythm, chasing everything down, suddenly redirecting the ball for a winner and making very few errors. A very skilful and underrated player on here IMO.

He has proved how good he is because he was once a top 10 player (I think he ranked as high as #6 at one point). Unfortunately his career has been derailed by injuries but he's been steadily climbing back up the rankings recently.

Agree with this post and the post describing Simon's underrated game.

I'd also add that Simon is one of the fastest players on tour. I think he is faster than Ferrer and Hewitt. Maybe not Hewitt in his physical prime, but not much difference. Not only is he fast, his court coverage/IQ is brilliant.

I'd also say that, despite Roger's h2h with Ferrer and Davy, his weakness is steady players. Novak, Rafa and Murray are all much more than grinders, but their retrieving ability is overall what troubles Roger. He has to hit 2 or more fantastic winners every rally. In his prime, this was no problem. As he's gotten older it's a little trickier and Simon is just the perfect blend (speed, good BH, redirect ball and negate pace) to trouble Federer. Still, he's only lost twice.

 

[Lukhas]

Agree with this post and the post describing Simon's underrated game.

I'd also add that Simon is one of the fastest players on tour. I think he is faster than Ferrer and Hewitt. Maybe not Hewitt in his physical prime, but not much difference. Not only is he fast, his court coverage/IQ is brilliant.

I'd also say that, despite Roger's h2h with Ferrer and Davy, his weakness is steady players. Novak, Rafa and Murray are all much more than grinders, but their retrieving ability is overall what troubles Roger. He has to hit 2 or more fantastic winners every rally. In his prime, this was no problem. As he's gotten older it's a little trickier and Simon is just the perfect blend (speed, good BH, redirect ball and negate pace) to trouble Federer. Still, he's only lost twice.

Only met 4 times. Fed's victories includes a walkover and a certain 5 set match... Nadal and Djokovic gives much more pace to the ball indeed. And for some reason, Federer dislikes Djokovic, which "helps". But against them, his first problem isn't that he doesn't have the tennis, it's much more that he hasn't the stamina to survive their grind and drills for the 3 or 4 next hours. Nor he can do two 5 sets matchs in a row anymore too.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

He made the excuse that Fed wasn't in good form. I just pointed out that Simon wasn't in great form either. What's so hard to understand about that?

Simon's game troubles Fed, we've established that, so why is it so hard for you to stomach that when they're both sub par the match was close?

I recall that match very well. I enjoyed it. I didn't felt that they were playing bad, but anyway I have no trouble admitting that was a close match, whatever their objective forms were.

I was wrong to attack you and apologize for it. You were only pointing out that Simon's form wasn't great either, and that the closeness of the match wasn't only due to Federer's form. I salute your dedication to acknowledge the merit of Simon in this match. It is a very noble behavior of you to seek with such passion to acknowledge the merit of the challenger in their win or near-win against top players.

 

[abmk]

Of course Fed has a say in what goes on too, both players do, but when one player's game clearly troubles the other, then that player's game has more affect on the outcome.

oh, LOL .... so the game of the arguably greatest HC player of all time doesn't trouble simon on HC ? really ? in which la la land ? what makes you confidently conclude that an in-form simon's game troubles federer more than the other way around ?

pretty sure that hewitt's game troubled pre-prime federer a LOT ... when federer hit his peak, it was totally and completely reversed ......

ditto with berdych and nadal .....

what makes you think that federer when playing well couldn't atleast overcome simon ? LOL !

You've used this same lame arse excuse every time, that Fed played crap. You've used it for losses to Berdych, Simon, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. Go check out their h2h with Fed and it becomes perfectly clear that I'm right and you're wrong. Suck it up.

ha ha ha, laughable .......if federer has not played well, I'd say he's not played well ... if he had, I'd say he has ..

there are many occasions where federer has played decent/good tennis and lost to the players you mentioned - wimbledon 2008, AO 2009, hamburg 2008, montreal 2007, USO 2011 , paris 2008, YEC 2008 ( murray ) , dubai 2013 etc etc ...

but it would be dumb/blatantly dishonest if I say he was playing well in matches where he played cr*p like miami 2011, RG 2008, wimbledon 2010, USO 2012 , miami 2009 , canada 2008 , cincy 2006, olympics 2012 etc etc ....

Sorry, but that's not for you to judge. I haven't ever felt embarrassed by you and never will because I know you're full of crap with all your desperate Fed legacy defending LOL!

its with you not getting even the basic things right in the first place ...like posting wrong stats without thinking , to blatantly troll ; not even getting basic math right ( the concept of how rates work ) etc etc ...

if you 'think' that's not embarrassing, then you have a very low expectation of yourself about getting things right !

 

[abmk]

He made the excuse that Fed wasn't in good form. I just pointed out that Simon wasn't in great form either. What's so hard to understand about that?

Simon's game troubles Fed, we've established that, so why is it so hard for you to stomach that when they're both sub par the match was close?

bwahahaha ..... just goes to show you didn't watch that match, just like you haven't watched many of the others ...

federer came out playing brilliantly vs simon who wasn't ready for such an onslaught ........ then simon's level rose and federer's dropped massively, simon played very well ......federer somehow pulled out the 5th set based on sheer fight/will .......

you saying simon's form was sub-par just highlights your cluelessness ... he played some of his very best tennis after a slow start .......

 

[tacou]

Only met 4 times. Fed's victories includes a walkover and a certain 5 set match... Nadal and Djokovic gives much more pace to the ball indeed. And for some reason, Federer dislikes Djokovic, which "helps". But against them, his first problem isn't that he doesn't have the tennis, it's much more that he hasn't the stamina to survive their grind and drills for the 3 or 4 next hours. Nor he can do two 5 sets matchs in a row anymore too.

Yeah I agree. I am a big Simon fan. While Simon is obviously trouble, it's not an outrageous h2h record in either's favor.

 

[spinovic]

I like watching Simon play. At his best, it is fascinating to watch him returning the ball deep into the corners and just inside the lines and maintaining a steady rhythm, chasing everything down, suddenly redirecting the ball for a winner and making very few errors. A very skilful and underrated player on here IMO.

He has proved how good he is because he was once a top 10 player (I think he ranked as high as #6 at one point). Unfortunately his career has been derailed by injuries but he's been steadily climbing back up the rankings recently.

I like him as well. He's actually one of my favorite players. It is interesting to watch him hit soft shot after soft shot, forcing his opponent to generate all their own pace, which I think frustrates a lot of guys. His variety is more about strategic times to inject a little pace into the rally vs. trying to mix up shots and spin.

Not likely to hoist any slam trophies, but he's a guy you have to beat. He won't beat himself and shouldn't be taken lightly. He's a little different, and different is fun to watch for me. I enjoy watching Llodra, mainly because he's about the only serve and volleyer on tour nowadays.

 

[Federer20042006]

Actually, I think he likes high balls, for some reason...and Federer's shots do tend to kick up, especially with the courts these days.

 

[Nitish]

Actually, I think he likes high balls, for some reason...and Federer's shots do tend to kick up, especially with the courts these days.

If thats the case he should destroy nadal,nadal's shots kick up more than anyone elses.

 

[above bored]

I honestly can't think why this is.

He has no trouble with flat hitting pusher/grinder type players - look at his record against Hewitt. He even has no trouble against aggressive grinders - look at his record against Davydenko. He has no trouble with moderately heavy topspin grinders like Ferrer - who has never beaten him. Only when you get into excessive topspin grinders like Nadal does Federer begin to have some trouble. And I doubt anyone would accuse Simon of hitting excessive topspin.

So why Simon? He hits a flat ball consistently to Federer's strike zone and he hardly has a slice backhand, so Federer's slice should bother Simon's two-hander. Granted, Simon doesn't miss or make mistakes, but then neither do Hewitt or Ferrer, and they both have woeful records against Federer. And they both have better movement and speed than Simon. So what is it with Simon? Simon hardly has a great net game and rarely goes up there of his own accord, so it's not like he's consistently pressuring Federer to come up with the pass. And Federer's infamous 'short slice' play should theoretically work wonders for drawing Simon out of his comfort zone and into the net.

Historically, trying to simply make Federer hit 'one-more-ball' has not been the way to beat Federer - because Federer will hit that one more ball - and it will be a winner.

So what about Simon's game gives Federer trouble?

He defends well and gets a lot of balls back into play. It's basically a match of aggression against consistency. If aggression does not hit its spots and makes too many errors, consistency will win or otherwise make it difficult for aggression to win.

 

[Lukhas]

If thats the case he should destroy nadal,nadal's shots kick up more than anyone elses.

Few have Nadal's stamina, and Simon isn't one of them... Nadal can basically hit forehands all day long since Simon won't create the pace and that he's fast on the court, and wait until Simon is cooked to finish him off. Simon won't either use the medium speed of Nadal's serves to shot return winners either.

 

[Nitish]

Few have Nadal's stamina, and Simon isn't one of them... Nadal can basically hit forehands all day long since Simon won't create the pace and that he's fast on the court, and wait until Simon is cooked to finish him off. Simon won't either use the medium speed of Nadal's serves to shot return winners either.

Yeah simon is a counter puncher and nadal dosent give him pace.

 

[Ehh]

He defends well and gets a lot of balls back into play. It's basically a match of aggression against consistency. If aggression does not hit its spots and makes too many errors, consistency will win or otherwise make it difficult for aggression to win.

This is overly simplistic, there are a ton of players who also are the consistent/pushing/counterpunching/grinding type that don't make errors, and Federer dominates most of them.

 

[Lukhas]

Yeah simon is a counter puncher and nadal dosent give him pace.

He gives lots of pace, but his balls are not very exploitable. Either you hit while the ball goes up after the bounce to gain time (Djokovic) and you can be quite hurried to hit before it's too high, either you hit when the ball goes down after the bounce and it's basically dead, and you have to generate the speed and spin yourself. And he hits long a lot too, can't play it in the feet either. And he's leftey (it helps along with the other factors in terms of court positioning). Doesn't serve hard either, he says it comes back faster if he does.

Ferrer gives also lots of pace, but his ball is less threatening. He basically makes his opponent suffocate by hitting not always harder, but sending the ball over the net faster and faster, tiring you as you have to come up with the goods often and so hard that he doesn't send it back. The pace continues to augment, and when you're cooked, the match is over. Perfect example is him against Berdych (or Almagro, but he has a block), his only answer to balls that comes back when he hits hard, is to hit even harder...

Federer strikes hard and flatter than Nadal (doesn't use the spin as a weapon as much), shorter inside the court, and loves to play the inside-out forehand, which comes at waist-height to Simon who can strike it DTL. Not as fast as Nadal or stretchy as Djokovic. Can't happen with Nadal whose balls are more spinny, less fast, deeper in the court and can basically hit all day long what would be Federer's inside-out because he's lefty. Faster on his legs too, more stamina. Simon is a beta version of Djokovic for Rafa, with less stamina and striking power, less aggressive, not threatening. Can force Simon to go out of the court with the topspin to open it and rip it on the other side. Federer doesn't like Djokovic (and I don't know why), so he steps up his game a bit against him, and Djokovic doesn't drink all the pace for some reason, although he also likes the DLT backhand to open the court. Djokovic is a "better" and more aggressive version of Simon, can take the stamina fight, is better on hardcourts, bothers Rafa much more.

Well that's what I think, even if I think I didn't really well "worded" some stuff, not good enough in English. I don't have a definite answer for Federer being bothered by Simon, except the basic ones: no pace and speed in the ball (Simon can win points out of 120kph serves, no not mph, kph), Federer doesn't have as much stamina to at the same time hit hard and run to cover the DTL backhand, Simon is more patient and exploits Federer's balls better. He also is able to read his serves somehow.

 

[Rob31]

Simon played a great match against Fed at Masters Cup 2008 with a lot of change of pace and good shotmaking + consistency from the baseline
End of second and third set:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7dnox_simon-vs-federer-masters-cup-shangh_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7dmxq_simon-vs-federer-masters-cup-shangh_sport

 

[Rob31]

Simon Vs Del Potro in Marseille, all-court tennis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NB9ONOL5hKk

 

[Rob31]

Simon can't bother Nadal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5XQqU-h7VPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uiJ5NKK4ns&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BA1oDo3soCg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=44EJZ-qUwgs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GDbA8QLShes

 

[sbengte]

Don't think I got a definitive answer to OP's question , but it sure is interesting to read the different perspectives, thanks guys !
Nice thread (reasonably) unspoiled by trolling, for a change