Why does Federer struggle so much with Simon?

D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Yeah and I'm sure Federer cares about tiny 250 tournaments as much as he does about grand slams, where by sheer coincidence, he has never been defeated by Hewitt.

/s
Now you're backpedaling and comparing 250 tournaments to Grand Slams. It's easy to expose your rigid way of arguing a point, especially since Federer cared enough to win a mirade of other 250 tournaments in his career. If your point had any value, Federer would not have the record for most 250 tournament wins in his career.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
winning record 4-1( in 2011) is called ''being exposed''?:lol: But I see your logic here, it means that if past-prime Federer was able to get 1 win and 1 close match against Djokovic at his peak than peak Federer would easily handle peak Djokovic. It would have made some sense if not a baby Djokovic straight-set destruction of prime Federer at AO-08 and epic Montreal-2007 win. Your logic failed.
Yes, Federer struggling with mono is a great example. :oops: Too bad it's your only example. What happened to Djokovic at the USO in 2007, 2008 and 2009? Was he destroyed? :lol:

Funny how you use "after 2011"; how come prime Djokovic losing to Federer before then doesn't count?
 
Yes, Federer struggling with mono is a great example. :oops: Too bad it's your only example. What happened to Djokovic at the USO in 2007, 2008 and 2009? Was he destroyed? :lol:

Funny how you use "after 2011"; how come prime Djokovic losing to Federer before then doesn't count?

No, mono is a fictitious excuse. Prime Federer was once exposed by Safin on hardcourts(AO-05:oops:) and even way more exposed by baby Djokovic. That's just how it's.
 
Now you're backpedaling and comparing 250 tournaments to Grand Slams. It's easy to expose your rigid way of arguing a point, especially since Federer cared enough to win a mirade of other 250 tournaments in his career. If your point had any value, Federer would not have the record for most 250 tournament wins in his career.

Federer doesn't care about 250 tournaments as much as he does about grand slams, which is why Hewitt was able to beat him twice after 2004.

I don't know why that isn't clear to you.

Hewitt couldn't even take Federer to 5 sets in a grand slam, unlike Simon. Federer struggles more against Simon than he does Hewitt. The end.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Federer doesn't care about 250 tournaments as much as he does about grand slams, which is why Hewitt was able to beat him twice after 2004.

I don't know why that isn't clear to you.

Hewitt couldn't even take Federer to 5 sets in a grand slam, unlike Simon. Federer struggles more against Simon than he does Hewitt. The end.
You said Federer didn't care about 250 tournaments at all, then proceeded to compare them to Grand Slam tournaments, now you're backpedaling again and saying he cares about them less than Grand Slam tournaments.

I don't know why it isn't clear to you that Simon faced the worse version of Federer. I also don't know why it isn't clear to you that Simon has also never beaten Federer in a Grand Slam tournament and the only times he pushed him Federer played like crap.

Hewitt took peak Federer to 4 at the US Open in 2005, he also beat prime Federer in 5 sets during the 2003 Davis Cup. Surely it's something he cares about.

Federer struggles more against a past-his-prime Hewitt than he does against Gilles Simon. The end.
 
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D

Deleted member 307496

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No, mono is a fictitious excuse. Prime Federer was once exposed by Safin on hardcourts(AO-05:oops:) and even way more exposed by baby Djokovic. That's just how it's.
So you're saying that Federer having mono is fiction? Are you seriously saying that?

Peak Federer was beaten by peak Safin, that's true, but at least he was not sick and ailing the whole tournament like he was when "baby" prime Djokovic beat him.
 
So you're saying that Federer having mono is fiction? Are you seriously saying that?

Peak Federer was beaten by peak Safin, that's true, but at least he was not sick and ailing the whole tournament like he was when "baby" prime Djokovic beat him.

Ask Soderling what's mono and how it affects you. Nobody is perfectly healthy and if Federer was playing the tournament and made it to the semifinals then he was at least OK. And Roger was still in his prime, it was baby Djokovic and baby Nadal who raised the bar in 2008.

Peak Federer wasn't looking dominant at all against baby Djokovic at USO-07 final, no wonder that he was beaten by plexi GOAT, even by baby plexi GOAT:)
 
D

Deleted member 307496

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Ask Soderling what's mono and how it affects you. Nobody is perfectly healthy and if Federer was playing the tournament and made it to the semifinals then he was at least OK. And Roger was still in his prime, it was baby Djokovic and baby Nadal who raised the bar in 2008.

Peak Federer wasn't looking dominant at all against baby Djokovic at USO-07 final, no wonder that he was beaten by plexi GOAT, even by baby plexi GOAT:)
Federer barely made it past Tipsarevic, and you're going to tell me he was fine? He was sweating buckets the whole tournament and he looked noticeably sick, unlike the other tournaments he played in 2008.

Djokovic only raised the bar in 2011, before then he had a lucky victory against a sick Federer. That's the be all and end all of it. I do agree that Nadal raised the bar in 2008, but by the time he beat Federer he was healthy. Federer was basically a sitting duck during the whole tournament.

I think you forget (or don't even know) that Federer got mono in December 2007, which is why it is not an excuse in this case at all.

And in response to the Soderling comparison, obviously he was hit harder by the disease than Federer, but saying that Federer even having the disease is fiction just shows what lengths you go to to prop up your favorite player.
 
Federer barely made it past Tipsarevic, and you're going to tell me he was fine? He was sweating buckets the whole tournament and he looked noticeably sick, unlike the other tournaments he played in 2008.

Djokovic only raised the bar in 2011, before then he had a lucky victory against a sick Federer. That's the be all and end all of it. I do agree that Nadal raised the bar in 2008, but by the time he beat Federer he was healthy. Federer was basically a sitting duck during the whole tournament.

I think you forget (or don't even know) that Federer got mono in December 2007, which is why it is not an excuse in this case at all.

And in response to the Soderling comparison, obviously he was hit harder by the disease than Federer, but saying that Federer even having the disease is fiction just shows what lengths you go to to prop up your favorite player.

Tipsarevic at some point was a top8 player, you're writing this excuse of being pushed to 5th set by Tipsy in a full fan boy mode that underrates Janko's abilities. Have you even watched the match? If Even player like Rosol on a good day can beat Nadal, so there is nothing strange that Tipsarevic could have had a close match against Federer.

As for Djokovic, he is just a way better slow-hardcourts player than Federer, time to deal with this fact.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
in other words he should win every single point against the clay liar.

Who are you talking about?:lol:

You sound upset and I can understand your feelings. Just the other day I put some fresh cucumbers on the top shelf of the fridge because I was in a rush and the next day they were no good because of the high refrigeration intensity setting.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Tipsarevic at some point was a top8 player, you're writing this excuse of being pushed to 5th set by Tipsy in a full fan boy mode that underrates Janko's abilities. Have you even watched the match? If Even player like Rosol on a good day can beat Nadal, so there is nothing strange that Tipsarevic could have had a close match against Federer.

As for Djokovic, he is just a way better slow-hardcourts player than Federer, time to deal with this fact.
Tipsarevic was a top 8 player, what? 5 years later? Please tell me how this fact is even relevant or how I'm underrating him (or his abilities in 2008, when the best rank he reached was a barely top 40 one) by making this clear-cut statement?

Using Rosol in this argument? :lol: Nadal was terrible on grass by 2012, that's the reason why he was beaten by Rosol in the first place. Once again, irrelevant to the argument.

And I have watched the match between Federer and Tipsarevic, and it's obvious Federer was not the same, and it was clear he wasn't the same against your boy, Djokovic too.

Djokovic is only a slightly better slow court player than Federer; what's more is they are in the same sentence.

Talk about fanboy mode..
 
Tipsarevic was a top 8 player, what? 5 years later? Please tell me how this fact is even relevant or how I'm underrating him (or his abilities in 2008, when the best rank he reached was a barely top 40 one) by making this clear-cut statement?

Using Rosol in this argument? :lol: Nadal was terrible on grass by 2012, that's the reason why he was beaten by Rosol in the first place. Once again, irrelevant to the argument.

And I have watched the match between Federer and Tipsarevic, and it's obvious Federer was not the same, and it was clear he wasn't the same against your boy, Djokovic too.

Djokovic is only a slightly better slow court player than Federer; what's more is they are in the same sentence.

Talk about fanboy mode..

You just see only half of the bottle...Was Nadal terrible at Wimby 2012 or has Rosol played the match of his life? Even Nadal fans don't deny the fact that Rosol's level during that match was very high, and his 5th set performance was GOAT-level. The same argument goes with Tipsy-Federer match...

Try to see from different perspectives to get a more complete picture instead of looking trough pink Federer's glasses;)
 
D

Deleted member 307496

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You just see only half of the bottle...Was Nadal terrible at Wimby 2012 or has Rosol played the match of his life? Even Nadal fans don't deny the fact that Rosol's level during that match was very high, and his 5th set performance was GOAT-level. The same argument goes with Tipsy-Federer match...

Try to see from different perspectives to get a more complete picture instead of looking trough pink Federer's glasses;)
Nadal was terrible and Rosol played the match of his life, that's why he won. It's common knowledge on this forum, and considering Nadal hasn't been past the 4th round since 2012 it explains it well.

The same argument does go for the Federer-Tipsarevic match, Tipsarevic played well and Federer played well below par; that's also why Djokovic dismissed Federer so easily in the SF.

Talk about different perspectives, why don't you try to stop humming and haring over Djokovic and realize that there are other players who are greater than he is (and have showed a higher level)?
 
Nadal was terrible and Rosol played the match of his life, that's why he won. It's common knowledge on this forum, and considering Nadal hasn't been past the 4th round since 2012 it explains it well.

Your analysis seems too simplistic, there is a reason why Nadal has lost at Wimbledon to big servers like Rosol and Kyrgios last few seasons and to Muller in 2005 and Federer(great server) in 2006/2007. His game is totally vulnerable to big hitters on fast surfaces.

Talk about different perspectives, why don't you try to stop humming and haring over Djokovic and realize that there are other players who are greater than he is (and have showed a higher level)?

Greater you mean more successful? Of course there are. But Djokovic is nowhere near the finish line of his career, he is a late bloomer which makes the comparison incorrect at the moment. As for overall greatness Djokovic already got 2 important cases:

1) The most impressive season ever(considering the level of competition, not stats)

2) One of AO-GOATS, huge chances of winning 5th AO and becoming undisputed AO GOAT.
 
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Deleted member 307496

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Your analysis seems too simplistic, there is a reason why Nadal has lost at Wimbledon to big servers like Rosol and Kyrgios last few seasons and to Muller in 2005 and Federer(great server) in 2006/2007. His game is totally vulnerable to big hitters on fast surfaces.
He lost to Muller in 2005 because he was a grass scrub, lost to Federer in 2006 and 2007 because Federer is the grass GOAT and he's lost during Wimbledon in recent years because he can't even bend down far enough to hit back every shot.

AssaultJoker said:
Greater you mean more successful? Of course there are. But Djokovic is nowhere near the finish line of his career, he is a late bloomer which makes the comparison incorrect at the moment. As for overall greatness Djokovic already got 2 important cases:

1) The most impressive season ever(considering the level of competition, not stats)

2) One of AO-GOATS, huge chances of winning 5th AO and becoming undisputed AO GOAT.
No, I mean greater. Federer is greater and more successful than Djokovic. And Djokovic a late bloomer? :lol: He was winning slams when he was barely in his 20s and has been a top 5 player since the age of 19.

Level of competition? During 2011 the top 10 was flooded with journeyman from Federer's deemed "weak era". :lol: Besides Murray, Nadal and past his prime Federer, it was not all that tough.
 
He lost to Muller in 2005 because he was a grass scrub, lost to Federer in 2006 and 2007 because Federer is the grass GOAT and he's lost during Wimbledon in recent years because he can't even bend down far enough to hit back every shot.
Sampras is grass GOAT, he did it in way tougher grass era. Federer was exposed by Berdych at Wimbledon.

No, I mean greater. Federer is greater and more successful than Djokovic.
Federer is greater on grass, but Djokovic still got plenty of time to surpass Roger on hardcourts and clay.
 
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Deleted member 307496

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Sampras is grass GOAT, he did it in way tougher grass era. Federer was exposed by Berdych at Wimbledon.
A tougher grass era, with what? Pioline in the final? What about career high No. 11 Washington? Give me a break. Federer's faced harsher competition than Sampras did at Wimbledon from at least '96 onward.

And past his prime Federer playing like absolute crap the whole tournament losing to Berdych is hardly being "exposed" by him.

AssaultJoker said:
Federer is greater on grass, but Djokovic still got plenty of time to surpass Roger on hardcourts and clay.
The only surface I give Djokovic a legit chance at surpassing Federer on is clay. He's pretty much never surpassing Federer on HC or grass (no way in hell is Djokovic winning 5 USO titles).
 

britam25

Hall of Fame
You are forgetting (or didn't know) about the 2006 Wimbledon final. Fed won in 4 sets. That was their first meeting at SW19.

I did, indeed, forget about that, apologies. But the match I described was 6-2 in the fifth, at Wimbledon.
 
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Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Federer barely made it past Tipsarevic, and you're going to tell me he was fine? He was sweating buckets the whole tournament and he looked noticeably sick, unlike the other tournaments he played in 2008.

Djokovic only raised the bar in 2011, before then he had a lucky victory against a sick Federer. That's the be all and end all of it. I do agree that Nadal raised the bar in 2008, but by the time he beat Federer he was healthy. Federer was basically a sitting duck during the whole tournament.

I think you forget (or don't even know) that Federer got mono in December 2007, which is why it is not an excuse in this case at all.

So are you saying that Nole didn't deserve his win at the '08 AO Saby due to Roger's condition? :-|
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
A tougher grass era, with what? Pioline in the final? What about career high No. 11 Washington? Give me a break. Federer's faced harsher competition than Sampras did at Wimbledon from at least '96 onward.

And past his prime Federer playing like absolute crap the whole tournament losing to Berdych is hardly being "exposed" by him.


The only surface I give Djokovic a legit chance at surpassing Federer on is clay. He's pretty much never surpassing Federer on HC or grass (no way in hell is Djokovic winning 5 USO titles).
Ahahahahahahaha
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
I think everyone struggles against Simon. The little guy doesn't get his dues because he's small, but he's a smart/tricky player and playing against him can easily become a nightmare. Sometimes he gives you no pace and that allows him to draw errors off his opponents. He's obviously what a lot of us consider to be a "grinder", or perhaps I should use the less offending TT approved term of "counter puncher" :rolleyes:. Back to Federer, his H2H against Simon might look unimpressive, but out of Nadal/Djokovic/Federer, he's the one who played him the less as Nadal has 7-1 H2H, Djokovic 10-1 vs Federer 4-2. Last time I saw Federer play Simon was Shanghai 2014 and he didn't really struggle all that much against him. My guess is that on an off day, Simon can trouble the best. Just look at his match with Djokovic at the AO this year. Simon will always be underrated but at the end of the day, you have to be cautious when playing him.
 
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burgerK

Guest
Simon did everything well in this match, and hitting 30 + winners (including surprising some serve and volleying 1;38:06, 1;58:55,2:18:43, sudden change of pace) although Federer had some back problems back then:

I'll describe the last 3 games:
3-3, Simon's serving:
0-15: volley from Federer, passing out from Simon
0-30: double-fault from Simon
0-40: forehand ue from Simon
15-40: forehand passing shot winner from Simon to save break point
30-40: ace from Simon
40-40: forehand ue from Federer
adv: lob winner on the line from Simon
Game Simon: forehand ue from Federer


4-3, Federer's serving:
0-15: Simon's FH return winner
15-15: FH ue from Simon
15-30: FH ue from Federer
15-40: CC backhand winner from Simon
30-40: FH winner from Federer
Break Simon on a FH winner after a good return so a good game from Simon to break.

5-3, Simon's serving:
15-0: passing from Simon, forced volley ue from Federer
30-0: FH ue from Federer
30-15: BH passing out from Simon after a decent volley from Federer
40-15: volley from Simon, forcing an error from the BH side of Federer
Match won on an ace.
 
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