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TheNachoMan
Guest
Compared to how many times Nadal skipped HC and grass tournaments? Or lost early? Federer was active in the clay season from 2005-2015. Rarely missed a tournament.
Why the Nadal/Federer H2H is bogus
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UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
This is the most complicated, needless, most hilarious way of saying "I AM A HUGE RF FAN AND I HATE NADAL FOR BEATING HIM SO OFTEN" in TTW history.
Next time just say it. Much simpler.
Next time just say it. Much simpler.
killerboss
Professional
Sick of the excuses from Fed and Nole fans now. Combined slam head to head is 20-11 to Nadal. He's won no matter what now in slam head to head. Clawing back a few wins when dudes are mid 30s and on their way out weighs far less than the beatings he handed out prime for prime.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
They don't seem to understand many things. For example, their own bias.
And GAS. Great Age Shift. Age isn't much of an issue anymore. Totally overrated, used as a desperate argument, as a last straw.
Besides, they don't seem to understand that in no era were the biggest rivals the EXACT SAME AGE. Yet people didn't make these age-based excuses back then.
"Becker's wins don't count! He is 7 years older than Lendl!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
It must be a millennial thing.
initialize
Hall of Fame
Actually I’m a huge Nadal fan, even more so than Djokovic, but claiming he’s better than Federer or Djokovic is just lunacy
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I'll take this with a grain of salt... So many people here faking who they're fans of...
But I agree that nobody is "better" than anybody. Kinda stupid to claim this with 21-20-20.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Stop the fighting everyone. We are all friends here. Love the Rafa. Love the Fed. 
kissy kissy
kissy kissyThe irony is that from Sampras era forward the ultimate criteria was Slams won. It was Sampras stated goal to reach and surpass Emerson’s 12 Majors. When Federer passed Sampras 14 it was a cause of rejoicing in the Federer fandom.
Now that Nadal has surpassed Federer’s total with 21 (and counting) the revision of criteria has started. Next we will find that winning Swiss Indoors at Basel is the ultimate criteria. Of course if Federer had won 13 Wimbledon titles there would be no teeth gnashing, it would simply be proof of Federer’s greatness.
Math is simple.
21 is greater than 20.
Now that Nadal has surpassed Federer’s total with 21 (and counting) the revision of criteria has started. Next we will find that winning Swiss Indoors at Basel is the ultimate criteria. Of course if Federer had won 13 Wimbledon titles there would be no teeth gnashing, it would simply be proof of Federer’s greatness.
Math is simple.
21 is greater than 20.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Actually I'm a huge Federer fan, even more so than Djokovic, but claiming he's better than Nadal or Djokovic is just lunacy.
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Hall of Fame
My post was actually true though lol
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
History gets written by winners, revisions are made by losers.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
So was mine lol.
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
Look at the Djoker fan here trying to bring peaceStop the fighting everyone. We are all friends here. Love the Rafa. Love the Fed.
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Hall of Fame
Nope lol
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
It is really simple:
It is a shame Fed didnt play Rafa more on HC and grass, however, Fed had his chances in slams to fix this h2h myth. He didnt. Plus, the h2h isnt absolutely as terrible as it once was.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Fedal twin goats unitedStop the fighting everyone. We are all friends here. Love the Rafa. Love the Fed.
war is over
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal does have more matches played in his ideal conditions (surface and form especially) than Fed and to a lesser extent Djokovic do in the H2H.
That is an indisputable fact. Maybe if we just boiled the OP down to that it would be more palatable.
I mean, Nadal and Djokovic have played nearly half of their rivalry on clay. Nadal and Fed have 15/40 matches on clay.
That is an indisputable fact. Maybe if we just boiled the OP down to that it would be more palatable.
I mean, Nadal and Djokovic have played nearly half of their rivalry on clay. Nadal and Fed have 15/40 matches on clay.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
5 set thrillers are overrated because stakes are inversely proportional to margins, which fundamentally sucks.
Like Federer avoiding Roland Garros and the clay season for years?
Pheasant
Legend
Unfortunately, Federer didn't take care of his own business. And it costed him dearly in slams and weeks at #1. That's the way it goes. Most records eventually get broken.
We Fed fans need to stop being so sour about what's transpired. It's been an awesome ride! I hope that my next favorite player can win 20 slams and get 300+ weeks at #1. I hope that my next favorite player can bag 24 consecutive wins in finals, or go to 23 consecutive slam semis. I hope that my next favorite player can win 65 straight matches on grass, or 56 straight on hard courts. We've been incredibly spoiled. That's the bottom line. There's no need to sling mud here. Heck, the guy lasted 20 years. That all by itself is a blessing for us fans.
Being upset about 20 slams and the above achievements is almost like being upset that your next store neighbor has a 1.1 billion dollars when you only have a billion dollars.
Bottom line: Let's stop getting greedy!
It's been a great ride, Fed! I just hope that we get to see you play again. If not, it's been a great run for a couple of decades!
We Fed fans need to stop being so sour about what's transpired. It's been an awesome ride! I hope that my next favorite player can win 20 slams and get 300+ weeks at #1. I hope that my next favorite player can bag 24 consecutive wins in finals, or go to 23 consecutive slam semis. I hope that my next favorite player can win 65 straight matches on grass, or 56 straight on hard courts. We've been incredibly spoiled. That's the bottom line. There's no need to sling mud here. Heck, the guy lasted 20 years. That all by itself is a blessing for us fans.
Being upset about 20 slams and the above achievements is almost like being upset that your next store neighbor has a 1.1 billion dollars when you only have a billion dollars.
Bottom line: Let's stop getting greedy!
It's been a great ride, Fed! I just hope that we get to see you play again. If not, it's been a great run for a couple of decades!
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
How about these 2 criterias ?
onefineday
Hall of Fame
It's not really bogus, unless there are wins which happened and were not recorded.
Otherwise, it's an accurate record of how often they met, who won.
Otherwise, it's an accurate record of how often they met, who won.
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Hall of Fame
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ForehandRF
Legend
Fed lost there to Safin so losing to Nadal can't be that bad don't you think ?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Horrible excuse.
Federer faced Nadal outside clay in 62% of his H2H matches. Given Federer's better record off clay, he has no excuses for the losing H2H.
Djokovic has faced Nadal outside clay in 53% of his matches. Given Djokovic's better record off clay, his fans have no reason to complay.
And don't bring the "there are twice as many hard court tournaments, so they should play twice as much on hard" excuse. Precisely because Nadal and Djokovic have not faced each other much more on hard, their H2H is reliable. Otherwise, their H2H would only be a measure of which player is better on hard courts, as opposed to overall. There is no ATP rule saying "65% of the H2H meetings between two players should occur on hard courts".
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
I miss when you were gone from the forum.
You have no capability to read nuance whatsoever.
The Fedfather
Legend
Where was this thread before, when the H2H argument was used incessantly? That's such a great analysis! I haven't read a more thorough stat-based rebuttal of the Fedal H2H "problem" (How can Federer be better than Nadal if he lost to him more often?). While some specific patterns of the rivalry were more or less clear in general, seeing this breakdown in numbers (assuming they are correct) makes me realize just how ridiculous it was that people gave Federer flak for the H2H. You have Nadal reaching 28% of their projected meetings post RG, while Federer reached 51% in Rafa's stronger half of the season. Met in 38% of their draws on clay, but only played 20% of the time they were drawn together on grass and HC. I mean, these are almost double differences, and criticizing Roger because of his negative H2H vs Nadal is punishing Federer for superior consistency.
That's such a great analysis! I haven't read a more thorough stat-based rebuttal of the Fedal H2H "problem" (How can Federer be better than Nadal if he lost to him more often?). While some specific patterns of the rivalry were more or less clear in general, seeing this breakdown in numbers (assuming they are correct) makes me realize just how ridiculous it was that people gave Federer flak for the H2H. You have Nadal reaching 28% of their projected meetings post RG, while Federer reached 51% in Rafa's stronger half of the season. Met in 38% of their draws on clay, but only played 20% of the time they were drawn together on grass and HC. I mean, these are almost double differences, and criticizing Roger because of his negative H2H vs Nadal is punishing Federer for superior consistency.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
So if a person disagrees with your views you miss him out of the forum. Nice dictator move. Extremely unpolite and unclassy comment.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Is that the AO winning moment?
abmk
Bionic Poster
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Straaaaaw Maaaaaan, waiting in the sky.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
How straw man? He literally said "I miss when you were ot of this forum" immediately after I replied to a message from him showing my disagreement with his views.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
I am sorry. But you said my post was a “horrible excuse”, so let’s not act like you’re being polite here.
also no one banned you, nor did I want you to leave, you just ducked and ran with your tail between your legs after your boy got pounded at his pet Slam lol. That was your decision and your decision alone.
yes, he is that weak
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
You can boil their H2H down to this: Nadal beat Fed at Wimbledon.... and Cincinnati... and the WTF.
The best idea Fed fans have come up with for Fed to beat Nadal at RG is to put 2005 Fed in a time machine and send him to 2015. Fed doesn't need much to beat Nadal at RG, just the invention of time travel. lol
Fed has one slam win vs. Nadal on hardcourts and clay. One. Nothing deceiving about that fact.
The best idea Fed fans have come up with for Fed to beat Nadal at RG is to put 2005 Fed in a time machine and send him to 2015. Fed doesn't need much to beat Nadal at RG, just the invention of time travel. lol
Fed has one slam win vs. Nadal on hardcourts and clay. One. Nothing deceiving about that fact.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
I decided to teak a break from the forum to focus in other activities. Nothing wrong with that. Other excellent posters such as Hitman have also abandoned the forum for a while (after the Djokovic Visa gate), and I would not say he "ran with his tail between his legs". He just decided to focus temporarily in other stuff.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Anything that involves time machines is bogus.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
IMO it's losing the Wimbly 2009 RU final
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Ah, the old correlation = causation. You omitted the statement 'You have no capability to read nuance whatsoever' from your analysis, though even without this statement, it's not a done deal that it's the disagreement that incited the vitriol per se; in fact, having seen a fair bit of K's posting history, it seems there is a certain scarcity and exclusivity to this level of disdain which belies any notion that your assessment is true. It therefore seems rather scarecrow-like to assert as such.
The Fedfather
Legend
No one is coming up with any ideas. The OP simply breaks down common patterns in the Fedal rivalry that put Nadal in a clearly favorable position to lead the H2H.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Oh, the 2005 to 2015 Fed time travel has been proposed on many occasions. I always get a good laugh.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
I don't need to "analyze" an argumentum ad hominem.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Hitman isn't the only Djoker or Fed fan who takes extended breaks after losses. 40-15 cleared out half the known Fed fans.
Trust me, while on break, you didn't miss anything. If you left tomorrow for three months, you wouldn't miss anything. lol
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
I personally think that it would obviously be much closer if they played more in other surfaces, but Nadal would still be on top by an inch
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Hall of Fame
I personally disagree — just my opinion though — considering Fed is clearly superior on grass and hardcourt
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