dude, go have some sleep and wake up in reality.
then count the H2H between Nadal and Fed since 2015.
Why was Federer's competition so one-sided?
- Thread starter Sweet Pete
- Start date
dude, go have some sleep and wake up in reality.
then count the H2H between Nadal and Fed since 2015.
Sweet Pete
New User
what's their slam H2H, 10-4 Nadal? LOL
you do know how the ranking points are awarded, don't you?
you probably know how titles are won, don't you?
Roddick was never an ATG, just look at his competition the year he won the USO. IF Andy was Roger's top competition 03-08 then the rest of the tour was either very weak or very inconsistent. Fact IS that when Rafa and Novak reached their near peak, Roger won fewer slams than he did against the likes of Roddick, Safin or Nalbandian, etc..
how surprising that Roger won less slams vs peak Djokodal. Perhaps the 6 years difference in age has something to do with it?
let's better check the opposition Djokodal had to face since reaching their prime.
who is a stronger opposition: Roddick, Safin, Nalbandian or Thiem, Zverev, Tsitsipas?
Eren
Professional
What's the point of this thread anyway? 08-present Fedr had WAY better competition than Sampras f.e. because both Djokovic and Nadal are better than Sampras.
Even in 03-12, IMO, Federer had better grass competition than Sampras with the likes of, Djokovic (won against him in 2012), Nadal (better grass courter than Agassi), Roddick (imo equal to Ivanisevic who also only won one Slam), Hewitt (one time Wimbledon champ), Murray (2-time Wimbledon champ).
IF Fedr had it easy at the start, he had it the toughest in his 30s.
Even in 03-12, IMO, Federer had better grass competition than Sampras with the likes of, Djokovic (won against him in 2012), Nadal (better grass courter than Agassi), Roddick (imo equal to Ivanisevic who also only won one Slam), Hewitt (one time Wimbledon champ), Murray (2-time Wimbledon champ).
IF Fedr had it easy at the start, he had it the toughest in his 30s.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Yes, I was talking about Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. Along with Del Potro, Tsonga, Berdych, Soderling, Wawrinka, and Cilic who were almost entirely shut out by those 3.I think King No1e is talking about Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro - which is a great generation, and I don't think it's even possible to disagree.
If he is indeed talking about the current new generation, then I too will slap my thigh in laughter
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
That one may be a step too far.
Let's see:
(comparing by draw tuffness)
1993 > 2003
2004 > 1994
1995 > 2005
1996 = 2008
1997 = 2006
2007 > 1998
1999 = 2009
2012 > 2000
Fred edges this slightly in the last season. So the difference is small/irrelevant.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Of course you have to believe this since he was Djoker's main rival in 2014-early 2016.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
The way Federer's chances increased in 2017-19 just tells us the level on the tour is scandalous. Why on earth should a player who hasn't won a slam in 5 years start winning again at veteran age? Evolution my arse. ATP decline, oh yes. Big time.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Everybody craps on Fed's competition but how come no one talks about Djoker's? Close to cakewalk since 2015 with no prime ATGs around and useless younger gens.
Sweet Pete
New User
because Djoker spent the 8 years prior to 2015 breaking through Federer and Nadal's duopoly on tennis and making the sport interesting again. That cuts him a lotta slack in my book. He got his desert AFTER dinner, unlike Fedsicle who built his whole image and aura off of weak competition. Big difference
metsman
G.O.A.T.
98 and 07 are fairly similar, Nadal was better than Goran but Pete had to face a deeper draw. I'd probably give 09 a slight edge too, if Scud hadn't retired it'd probably be equal/even in 99's favor.
fundrazer
G.O.A.T.
Funny typo. We could definitely describe the current landscape as a desert, void of any young all time greats.
How many days will your account survive?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm happy for your unwavering self-confidence. :'|
I can definitely see '99 Sampras beating '09 Roddick in straights with his clutchness.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Would back Roddick to beat Agassi though which is more important right?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Press X to doubt.
Expect Agassi to play better against anyone other than Sampras.
The first set appears crucial; whoever takes it is a strong favourite to take the match.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Main rival on clay: Nadal (In arguably his best years on clay)
Main rivals on grass: (Nadal again in 2 of his 3 best years on grass, and Roddick, who was an exceptional player on grass)
Main rivals on HC: (Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Nadal at the very end. All decent players)
So essentially Fed had to beat Nadal in literally every single M1000 clay final, go up against a peak Rafa on grass, and face some formiddable opponents on HC as well from 2003-2010.
Main rivals on grass: (Nadal again in 2 of his 3 best years on grass, and Roddick, who was an exceptional player on grass)
Main rivals on HC: (Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Nadal at the very end. All decent players)
So essentially Fed had to beat Nadal in literally every single M1000 clay final, go up against a peak Rafa on grass, and face some formiddable opponents on HC as well from 2003-2010.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
What? Who was better than older Fed approx the same age, say 34-current age in his era?
Eren
Professional
Depends on how you look at it. Djokovic, Nadal, Murray are all better grass courters than anyone Sampras faced and Fedr beat those guys to get some of his Wimbledons. Sampras had no one close to any of the aforementioned players on grass to deal with.
In my book, Sampras isn't the best on grass, far from the best on HC and was absolutely pathetic on clay. Where does that leave him in the GOAT discussion? Nowhere to be found. Obviously an ATG, just a significant step below Big3.
NatF
Bionic Poster
You expect Agassi to play as well as 09 Fed? Or you think he has a favourable match-up?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Bad reasoning.
Eren
Professional
Your opinion. I might phrase it as, Federer had it tougher in the end of his Wimbledon campaigns. I wasn't trying to refer to the draw as a whole because for players like Sampras and Federer, the first week of Wimbledon mostly is practice lol.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
I think the serve-return balance shifting would help Agassi. He'd return better than Botterer and serve worse, but the former should be more significant in this match. The 09 final going on for that long was an anomaly, could've easily been a routine straight-set win for Federer if a few points went differently. It would be unlikely for Roddick to clutch out a win over Agassi the way he almost did it against Federer, because it's just an unlikely showing of clutchness.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Don't rate level by titles. Especially not in Murray's case lol.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Not better, but Agassi on HC was really on his level.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
But age does not matter, correct?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Don't forget Djokovic on HC in 2007.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I hestitate to call it an anomaly because he outclutched Murray as well - notably a guy with an exceptional return. Sampras served better than Roddick did, but the difference between Fed's serve and Agassi's is way bigger. Just feels wrong to me to give Agassi this much credit when he only served at 43% and was pretty ineffective against an admittedly glorious Pete, where as Federer wasn't as good as Sampras was but still played a clearly better match than Agassi did and Roddick took him to the wire...
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Actually I included 2008-2010 as well, so Djokovic would definitely be included in those 3 years.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
I already alluded to the importance of the first set. Roddick probably goes down in straights if Federer converts BP at 5-5 and serves the first set out. Agassi, even if he broke at 3-3 and held serve twice to take the set, probably goes down in four sets anyway, but it'd be a much better match then. And who takes the first set between Roddick and Agassi is mental as much as technical so I dunno, not trusting either's mental strength implicitly.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
What's so wrong with Fed's competition anyway?
If Djokovic hadn't been so generous against Murray and Stan, his competition would have been one sided too outside Fedal.
If Djokovic hadn't been so generous against Murray and Stan, his competition would have been one sided too outside Fedal.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Nadal who won 3 FOs, reached 2 Wimbledon finals, won a bunch of Masters titles including 3 on HC and was the no 2 player for 160 weeks consecutively right behind Fed is seen as worse competition than Berrettini now probably.
R1FF
Professional
I must be a minority in that I think Fed has gotten better with time. His late prime or maybe just post prime versus late Sampras is on my all time wish list.
As for lacking a rival tho... what about Nadal? Or is this excluded because their prime years didnt align?
NatF
Bionic Poster
OK fair enough.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Federer also would have been down 2-0 if he hadn't dug out that miraculous half volley, and the BH volley would never have happened. Margins are small on grass with big serves.
Anyways, Agassi vs Roddick is an interesting discussion, but Roddick put forward a more gutsy and better performance by virtue of his serve alone so as competition I'd definitely give him the nod.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Still Pete didn't break outside of his godpras stint until AA gave up at 5-5 in the third (annoying fail, should've been TB not that it would've changed anything).
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Well the godpras stint took care of 2 breaks so that's more than enough.
Yeah the 5-5 game was terrible. So was the 15-14 game but that's a tad more understandable (plus shadows) lol.
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
Ah, I never said Federer was "weak".
I was highlighting that Agassi was over-the-hill and still threatened peak Federer.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Federer is just the most insanely talented player ever. It required two ATG's 5/6 year younger than him to stop him from wrapping up everything in sight.
Only player who could have damaged Federer if he had been same generation would have been Nadal, due to strong match-up advantage. Other ATG's can be happy they weren't same generation as Fed. Roddick/Hewitt didn't have that fortune.
Only player who could have damaged Federer if he had been same generation would have been Nadal, due to strong match-up advantage. Other ATG's can be happy they weren't same generation as Fed. Roddick/Hewitt didn't have that fortune.
RS
Bionic Poster
Hewitt could stay with Fed on the ground at times well but he was not powerful enough to cause damage constantly.
RS
Bionic Poster
If Djokovic was in Federer gen he could have held his own. He is a top tier ATG just like Federer.
Eren
Professional
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Feddy Teddy is an Opportunistic Lucky Roller. That's how it is. Have to accept that
fedfan08
Professional
If you’re referring to the current generation that Nadal and Djokovic are also facing all I have to say is:
fedfan08
Professional
Watch Agassi and Roddick in Cincy 2004. They were both crushing it. This was before Roddick became a pusher from the baseline.
fedfan08
Professional
Wait is this a serious question?
Similar threads
