Nadal questions Wimbledon's seeding system
- Thread starter VladBurn
- Start date
pame
Hall of Fame
Did I miss your mentioning that the grass season would have exactly the same number and calibre of tournaments that the clay season has?
Oh and you need to let Borg know he was being a prima donna in playing the Australian Open only once in his career from 1973 to 1983, and skipping all the rest.. and prima donna Lendl too, who skipped RG in 1990 and 1991 to better his chances at finally winning Wimbledon, and oops, almost forgot prima donna Jimmy Connors who only played AO twice I believe.
Oh and exactly how do you go about penalizing someone who, by ATP regulations, is now eligible to skip any or ALL of the masters? -- besides the fact that they get zero pointers?
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 735320
Guest
The point in my professional tennis world is to win singles titles at the 4 majors. Connors, Lendl and Borg won several majors. If they choose to skip that's fine. But if you skip you lose credibility that you are the best. Ideally the player who can manage 4 surfaces is the man.
chikoo
Hall of Fame
It is a grass court. Seeding is the most important part. Can't expect a clay court player to understand for you do not seed a clay court
Tennisanity
Legend
Man, this guy never stops bellyaching about everything.
Oh man, hahah, guess that's something Nadal still needs to learn.It is a grass court. Seeding is the most important part. Can't expect a clay court player to understand for you do not seed a clay court
After all, it's never too late to learn something new, right ?
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
the nadal ?... whining ?!
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Noelan
Legend
malbaker86
Hall of Fame
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Noelan
Legend
exactly. Note that he/she is never mean. Having such a sense of humor is a skill
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Neither Nadal or Djoker would ever have gotten past the semis on 80's-90's grass. People who think Djoker has the greatest ROS never saw Agassi attempt to handle Pete's serve on lightning-fact W. grass of those years.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Or Ivanisevic's
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
zagor
Bionic Poster
It's not just about the ROS on grass, it's also about the athleticism required to run down all those volleys. Something in which both Nadal and Novak are on another level compared to Andre.
Who himself was hardly impotent against Pete's serve (except in their 1994 F), people forget. Grass favours the athlete and Goran was quite fast on the run.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Their 98 match was a classic, as was their 92 semi.
zagor
Bionic Poster
I haven't rewatched any of them in a while but last time I did I remember enjoying 1995 SF the most. Really felt there was almost nothing separating them in that one, Ivanisevic was such an amazing talent on grass.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Because in the back of his mind, he knows that if Federer wins Wimbledon, then even if Nadal wins RG, he still doesn't make up for the AO final loss. The gap remains at four, and probably means he will never get the chance to close it.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Of course! The 95 semi...one of the best matches ever on grass.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
I really don't believe he thinks like that.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I think he does. The last thing he wants is Federer neutralizing all the efforts Nadal has put into the clay, but cancelling his RG title out with a W title of his own. They are competitors of the highest level, and that slam record drives them big time, no matter how much they say it doesn't. They know the war to be the best is entering it's final act, and nobody will be willing to give an inch.
Tennisanity
Legend
This is true, and by no means is Djokovic not wanting it just as badly as they do. He still believes he can win the slam count record.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
They are all wanting it just as bad, and that is why they have managed to produce the stellar tennis and insane records we have seen over the past couple of years. These three are looking for the GOAT title, which ultimately means winning slams and making sure the other two don't. Nadal is going to be concerned, because Federer played crazy good tennis, and if he carries that form onto the grass, he will be deadly at SW19. Not good for Nadal who is chasing. Djokovic in an even tougher spot, the last thing he wants is both Federer and Nadal to continue to pull further away, hence Agassi coming on board. He will want to reclaim his spot at the top real quick.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Of course they think about slam count but if Nadal wins RG I don't think he will feel that his win was for nothing just cause Fed wins wimbledon the month after. I think that would be pretty unprofessional and an insult to himself and his professionalism. I don't believe he was thinking in those terms when talking about wimbledon seeds or at all for that matter.
But that is what I believe, just to be clear.
I'm all for except the move the GS location part.
Have an extended grass season. Upgrade Hamburg back to 1000 status but with grass courts. Then have Queens or Halle as a 1000 leading up to Wimbledon. Drop Miami to accommodate this and have IW, Canada, Cincinatti leading up to USO.
Radical changes but would interesting. Overall though I'm happy enough with the tennis calendar.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I know what you are trying to say. In regards to it being an insult to himself and his profession. These guys are very competitive athletes, if he feeling that Federer might just pull away at Wimbledon, he will express it somehow. He has been chasing him for over a decade, and at one point thought he had him, then when he finally gets to a slam final in three years, he lose to the guy he was trying to catch. He will not want the gap to remain at 4 after W, while his legacy grows and all those good things, he still is 4 behind.
Now, don't take this the wrong way. Nadal is humble and very respectful of Federer and Djokovic, an asset to his character, but he is also a natural born fierce competitor, and it is in his DNA to compete to be the absolute best, just like Federer and just like Djokovic. They are born with a killer instinct, that you don't just switch on and off.
Fed is 35 years old and clay is a young man/grinders surface.
He reached 10 straight grand slam finals across all 4 surfaces in 05-07 then a further 8 between 08-10 across all surfaces during his prime so can clearly manage all 4 surfaces.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The entire composition of the grass, which by itself constitutes a change of surface while appearing to be a minor alteration.
Jackuar
Hall of Fame
Great. Makes it better. So all Rafa needs to do now is ask for surface based seedings to other slam organizers. He cannot blame Wimbledon, clearly and clearly.But Jackuar, the ITF rules are already in place for the tournament committees to adjust what they wish, if they wish. Let me post again:
BTW, when I said I agree with Rafa, it was a sarcastic dig at his logic. FYI, in case you didn't get that.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
I would argue far more against the present seeding system at RG...
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Counting players at least 29 years old in all of the OE:
7 won Wimbledon
7 won RG
8 players won past the age of 30.
5 of those wins happened on clay.
The oldest wins happened by Rosewall and Gimeno, both over age 33.
Facts contradict your assumption.
There will be one more player on that list over 30 if Nadal wins this year.
Maybe overall but the point about grinding is still true and Federer himself has declined on clay with age more than grass/HC.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
WRONG!!!
His decline in returning on grass has been horrific, equally true on clay. It's hurt him more on clay because clay was NEVER his best surface.
These are the years Fed's return fell below his career average on clay:
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
It started at around age 28.
Now grass, years below career average:
2008
2009
2010
2011
2014
2015
2016
The difference is that he had two better returning years on grass, 2012 and 2013.
Look at the difference on HCs, years return was below career average:
2008
2009
2012
2013
2014
2017
In other words, return was ABOVE career average in four years, although 2016 is questionable because of so few matches.
And when his return has been lower than his career average, it's not down much.
Not wrong as he can compensate for that on grass in other ways, such as obviously his serve which isn't as effective on clay.
RG since 2012... SF, QF, QF, 4R?
Wimbledon since 2012 ... W, 2R?, F, F, SF.
Results speak for themselves.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Are the Nadals still asking for the net to be raised ?
Rafa24
Hall of Fame
WTF needs to be at a different venue every year or two and surface change would be interesting. Nobody cares much about WTF tho. And no it's nothing close to a slam or a masters 1000. It's a round robin 8 player tournament at the end of a long grueling year and most guys are ready to pack it in.
For those who say it's close to a slam it's not even on ESPN or local channels in the states. Slams and some masters 1000s are though. I'd rank the WTF under masters 1000 and over 500 events.
No more white balls.
LOL
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
As many others have pointed out, if Rafa wasn't hot garbage on grass, he'd be seeded higher. But he IS, so he isn't. Got it? Good.
Fiero425
Legend
I think we've had threads about upgrading a grass tourney to Masters' status before! I would endorse it, but it's not likely! Changes have been coming fast & furious; might want to slow down for a while! It's about $$$ and from what I remember players are already offended by "entertainment tax" in England which is the reason Halle has such a good field! Hamburg would be good as well! If there was a change, I'd go with a mainland event!
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
Fed has nothing to prove. Owes no one anything. Can do what he likes. Any fan saying otherwise is just crying
Fiero425
Legend
The whining never stops! If it doesn't work in Nadal's favor, it's unfair! Rosol going late under the dome/lights several years ago on Centre Court still "frosts his cake!" He's been a crybaby since the beginning which is why I didn't care for him even as a kid! There was this self-entitlement feel to him where most just saw it as confidence! I still say this guy has stolen many a match with his gamesmanship; strategically timed MTO's, stalling, toweling off, and questioning every point he loses! Funny how he doesn't like this seeding method; tried his own brand of shady dealing by suggesting a 2 year ranking period instead of 1 when VP of the ATP players' council! He thought he could hold onto the #1 ranking longer in 2011, but thinking back, his '09 was awful, culminating in him losing all 3 of his RR matches at the YEC! Nole was not so subtly running up on him winning final after final in 2011, taking Nadal down by Wimbledon, the title, and #1 ranking!
Last edited:
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
How do you know that? Did he send you an sms?
Druss
Hall of Fame
Injury in 2009? Didn't Rafa skip Wimbledon that year because he felt he wasn't good enough to beat Roger on grass?
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Of course you would, meanwhile pretty much every player with 3+ slams have won it. Except Rafa. Coincidence? I think not
No one is claiming it's close to a slam. But it's plenty above a Masters. And no, no need to discuss it further.
Similar threads
