What rating do you think this player is?

Rating?

  • 3.0

    Votes: 13 22.8%

  • 3.5

    Votes: 15 26.3%

  • 4.0

    Votes: 24 42.1%

  • 4.5

    Votes: 5 8.8%
  • Total voters
    57
JSZ

JSZ

Rookie
To me it looked like the guy in the dark tracksuit was feeding balls fairly close to the far end guy, Tracksuit guy was putting balls right into far end guy's wheelhouse, not bad feeding. Whenever far end tiny guy has to do anything out of his exact hitting zone he hit into the net or way over the baseline. 3.0
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
Far guy looked like a 3.0 to me as well

* He does not move back for deep balls.
* Almost all his strokes land short (in service box)
* Weak backhand (unforced errors on basic rally balls)
* Slow reaction and foot speed
* No approach shot body turning. Runs straight at the ball.
* No early turn. Just watches the ball.
* Lets ball drop too low before hitting.
* Racket not out in front waiting for volley
 
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Stretchy Man

Stretchy Man

Professional
I really hope you got permission to post that video, otherwise that is a pretty ****ty thing to do. Not sure what could be more deserving of a ban than that. :confused:
 
Papa Mango

Papa Mango

Professional
g4driver said:
A 3.5 could hit smoothly off those weak short feeds the guy in white is putting up for the near side guy to T up.

A descent 4.0 would put more than 70% of the balls past the service line. The guy in white put what maybe 20-25% past the service line. How is that 4.0 anywhere ? [emoji102] How is that is even 3.5 ?
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You must be 4.5++. Have you ever seen a 4.0 USTA match? 90% of them are push fests.
 
Papa Mango

Papa Mango

Professional
tennis tom said:
The 3.0's are too busy shopping at Safeway, picking up the veggie platter for the after match social and the 4.5's+ are practicing (what's that???), teaching pros or selling stocks or advertising.
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There you go again.. I shop at Safeway!

tennis tom said:
It's ok, :) good things come in small packages, Formula 1 drivers, jockeys, my gf 98 lbs. I gave you a 4.5+ sandbagger rating--what's your "real" usta rating?-- and what do you think your real potential is?
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Pics or didn't happen .. :)
The real rating is for me to know and the TT poasters to guess...
Real potential..... I could leave the family/work and go full time tennis and be a 5.25 o_O
 
T

tennis tom

Legend
Papa Mango said:
There you go again.. I shop at Safeway!
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Well next time you shop for snacks for the after-match social, could you forgo the obligatory veggie platter and get some sushi, teriyaki chicken wings, and some Pyramid Apricot Ale, and some lemon meringue pie for desert, please.
 
Papa Mango

Papa Mango

Professional
tennis tom said:
Well next time you shop for snacks for the after-match social, could you forgo the obligatory veggie platter and get some sushi, teriyaki chicken wings, and some Pyramid Apricot Ale, and some lemon meringue pie for desert, please.
Click to expand...
What's a veggie platter?

Here you go .. this is a more recent video shot a few weeks ago. Slightly below average tennis on the day since it was hot, I was hung over and I couldn't restring my rackets the night before and I forget what else was wrong that day.
I am the guy in the hat.

Hoping to get the bump to 3.5 in TTPS ratings!
 
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g4driver

g4driver

Legend
Papa Mango said:
You must be 4.5++. Have you ever seen a 4.0 USTA match? 90% of them are push fests.
Click to expand...

No disrespect to you Papa Mango, but where I live that isn't high level 18+ or 40+ 4.0 tennis based on the OP's video of you. Maybe it is 55+ 4.0 singles tennis. Maybe it is simply a bad video as there is no serve starting points just soft feeds.

IMO, Shroud looks like a much better player in the OP's video or perhaps you are the better player and you are just giving him soft feeds since that video has no serves and points are played from the serve. ???

And no, 18+ and 40+ 4.0 tennis around me isn't a push fest. Yes, pushers exist, but most don't do well against former college players playing 4.0 USTA Tennis. We have no 5.0 leagues and our 4.5 guys tend to have a lot of 5.0 guys who tanked or continue to tank at 4.5 40+ to get back to 4.5. So several of 4.0s do the same to avoid 4.5 leagues with "5.0"

Startzel and others on this board have seen 4.0 players play singles against Nima, Reim, Cohen, Sears, Sota, Mazere, Estes and a few others. A few TT posters have made comments about Nima and he isn't even the best 4.0 singles player. I will see if I can find the link to let you read those TT members comments.
 
T

tennis tom

Legend
It's threads like these that should require USTA to rename league tennis "PROVINCIAL HANDICAP TENNIS". When you play in Senior Age Groups you can't lie about your birth certificate. The seniors should be renamed "MASTERS TENNIS" to attract more players, seniors is a pejorative, it's getting almost illegal to get old in this country--and in kali it's against the law.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Well, Papa might not serve 105 with any consistency, but he can bounce his twist and kicker's up around forehand heights at the opposing baseline. But I'm not sure if he really mean's to hit a kick or a twist, as he often hit's both to the same sides of the court on successive serves.
Does that satisfy the "deep" part of being a competitive 4.0?
 
Papa Mango

Papa Mango

Professional
g4driver said:
No disrespect to you Papa Mango, but where I live that isn't high level 18+ or 40+ 4.0 tennis based on the OP's video of you. Maybe it is 55+ 4.0 singles tennis. Maybe it is simply a bad video as there is no serve starting points just soft feeds.
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None taken, No one claimed the video to be high level 4.0 tennis. Heck, I voted 3.0 based on the video :)

IMO, Shroud looks like a much better player in the OP's video or perhaps you are the better player and you are just giving him soft feeds since that video has no serves and points are played from the serve. ???

And no, 18+ and 40+ 4.0 tennis around me isn't a push fest. Yes, pushers exist, but most don't do well against former college players playing 4.0 USTA Tennis. We have no 5.0 leagues and our 4.5 guys tend to have a lot of 5.0 guys who tanked or continue to tank at 4.5 40+ to get back to 4.5. So several of 4.0s do the same to avoid 4.5 leagues with "5.0"

Startzel and others on this board have seen 4.0 players play singles against Nima, Reim, Cohen, Sears, Sota, Mazere, Estes and a few others. A few TT posters have made comments about Nima and he isn't even the best 4.0 singles player. I will see if I can find the link to let you read those TT members comments.
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Well where I am I don't see any ex-college players playing 4.0. Kids out of high school yes but college players not unless they are the same vintage as LeeD.
So let me get this straight, these Uber elite ex college players are playing 4.0 tennis in the Southern region and they never go to/win at nationals and get bumped up? After the local league/districts they play to lose to maintain their 4.0 rating? :confused:
Any videos of these specimens?

g4driver said:
Papa Mango

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/new-tennis-ratings-site.589666/page-2

Read Post #86 by therecanbeonlyone
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I believe you, I have played some some 4.0 who blasted everyone off the court but they were usually bumped up the next season.
 
Dartagnan64

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Watched the first 5 min of the newest video and the only winner was a lob. Doesn't that by definition make it 3.5 tennis. When virtually all points are determined by UE, that shows the consistency to play 4.0+ isn't there.
 
g4driver

g4driver

Legend
Papa Mango said:
None taken, No one claimed the video to be high level 4.0 tennis. Heck, I voted 3.0 based on the video :)


Well where I am I don't see any ex-college players playing 4.0. Kids out of high school yes but college players not unless they are the same vintage as LeeD.
So let me get this straight, these Uber elite ex college players are playing 4.0 tennis in the Southern region and they never go to/win at nationals and get bumped up? After the local league/districts they play to lose to maintain their 4.0 rating? :confused:
Any videos of these specimens?


I believe you, I have played some some 4.0 who blasted everyone off the court but they were usually bumped up the next season.
Click to expand...

Anyone heading to Mobile in July for the Southern can see Cohen paying 4.5 although he is a USTA 4.0C. He lost two 4.5 matches in TBs, then best one of those 4.5 guys in straight sets a few weeks later. He never tanked or broke any rule. A USTA grievance was filed against him and dismissed due to him following all the rules. This is the USTA's system. Two of those 4.0's I mentioned won 8.0 mixed Nationals last year beating Texas in the finals and Florida in the semi, NY, Eastern and PNW, but those Nationals don't affect their ratings.
 
S

Startzel

Hall of Fame
Dartagnan64 said:
Watched the first 5 min of the newest video and the only winner was a lob. Doesn't that by definition make it 3.5 tennis. When virtually all points are determined by UE, that shows the consistency to play 4.0+ isn't there.
Click to expand...

That's the one thing I really noticed. The better player several times had a short ball that's easy to put away and he lobs. I think he won with the lob it that should have been a reflex forehand winner.
 
S

Startzel

Hall of Fame
ptuanminh said:
The other player? The guy with cap and hoodie? Dude, are you kidding me? You play tennis where again?
Do you see that racquet head speed? The sound coming the racquet? Thats not anywhere near 3.5
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They both have on shorts and a t shirt.

If you're talking about the guy from the first video. Yeah he's a 4.0.
 
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Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
If both of the guys in that original video are rated 4.0C in NorCal USTA (assuming so, based on their post histories here on this site), that should be enough to settle the issue. It's not like NorCal is some weak section with no participation in the middle of nowhere.

As far as ex-college guys playing 4.0, yes I have seen it, but it's not like guys coming from Stanford or UCLA. It's usually guys coming from JUCO or some smaller D3 school or something like that. They usually play 1 season at 4.0 as a self rate and then realize that it's boring and not worth their time, or they play mixed one summer and realize all the women are old enough to be their mother. Then they either move up or quit tennis altogether. It is exceedingly rare that 23 year old ex-college guys sandbag long term at 4.0 so they can beat up the old men with desk jobs. It just doesn't happen as much as people think.
 
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D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Moveforwardalways said:
If both of the guys in that original video are rated 4.0C in NorCal USTA (assuming so, based on their post histories here on this site), that should be enough to settle the issue. It's not like NorCal is some weak section with no participation in the middle of nowhere.

As far as ex-college guys playing 4.0, yes I have seen it, but it's not like guys coming from Stanford or UCLA. It's usually guys coming from JUCO or some smaller D3 school or something like that. They usually play 1 season at 4.0 as a self rate and then realize that it's boring and not worth their time, or they play mixed one summer and realize all the women are old enough to be their mother. Then they either move up or quit tennis altogether. It is exceedingly rare that 23 year old ex-college guys sandbag long term at 4.0 so they can beat up the old men with desk jobs. It just doesn't happen as much as people think.
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+1

i think folks use "college players" loosely on ttw... ie. like all college players are automatically 5.5+
some distinctions i've learned over the years:
* there's a difference between "team players" vs. "club players"... and college kids, when asked, "did you play in college", will not always make a distinction,... because like the team players, club players will travel to other schools to play other club teams
* there's a difference between ranked and unranked "divisionX" teams. let's take D1... the top *ranked* D1 schools are often in the 6.0-6.5 stratosphere... where unranked D1, I've seen as as low as 4.5
* just because you "only" played D2 or D3 doesn't mean anything... yeah, the average D2 will be say 4.5, or D3 will be say 4.0... there are plenty of guys who could have played D1, even ranked D1, that choose to play D2/3 for the education (vs. tennis competition)
* usta website does not do a good job making these distinctions... for instance... at least one kid i know, who was no better than 4.0, correctly claimed he was a "college player" (i think he played on a team), and the usta website automatically put him as 5.0
* regarding teams, there's often a big difference between the top lines, and the bottom lines...
 
S

Startzel

Hall of Fame
nytennisaddict said:
+1

i think folks use "college players" loosely on ttw... ie. like all college players are automatically 5.5+
some distinctions i've learned over the years:
* there's a difference between "team players" vs. "club players"... and college kids, when asked, "did you play in college", will not always make a distinction,... because like the team players, club players will travel to other schools to play other club teams
* there's a difference between ranked and unranked "divisionX" teams. let's take D1... the top *ranked* D1 schools are often in the 6.0-6.5 stratosphere... where unranked D1, I've seen as as low as 4.5
* just because you "only" played D2 or D3 doesn't mean anything... yeah, the average D2 will be say 4.5, or D3 will be say 4.0... there are plenty of guys who could have played D1, even ranked D1, that choose to play D2/3 for the education (vs. tennis competition)
* usta website does not do a good job making these distinctions... for instance... at least one kid i know, who was no better than 4.0, correctly claimed he was a "college player" (i think he played on a team), and the usta website automatically put him as 5.0
* regarding teams, there's often a big difference between the top lines, and the bottom lines...
Click to expand...

Yeah we had a "college player" get bumped all the way down to 3.0. Think she was at a D3 or NAIA school and they literally just needed a body to fill a roster spot.

Edit: I actually just looked up her school it's D3. Number 1 is a 9 UTR, No. 2 and No. 3 are UTR 5s and their No. 4 is a UTR 3.
 
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S

Startzel

Hall of Fame
tennis tom said:
,

You're moving in the right direction now, 4.5+.
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This would really surprise me. He has solid strokes when they're near him but his movement is way too weak to be competitive at 4.5 much less 5.0. Saw some other video of him and he was really struggling to volley.

Maybe he's a lot better at doubles and that's what he plays in league.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Please stop now.....
Whatever the first vid looks like, we know both player's are USTA League 4.0's. The little fella is actually very quick around the court, and can be top of 4.0 if he could play tennis more than once a week. Shroud is middle of 4.0.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I've played both about 7 times in the past 4 year's, maybe Papa closer to 15 times.
I'm at 18-19 seconds, slow for sure, but OK for most 67 year olds (when I did the spider drill).
Shroud might give me a run for my $$$.
Papa would probably come in around 16 seconds, about the times of the best junior 16's who are top 5 state ranked. He's 42 now, I think. BUT, in the past year, he's been playing tennis about once a week at most.
 
time_fly

time_fly

Hall of Fame
g4driver said:
A 3.5 could hit smoothly off those weak short feeds the guy in white is putting up for the near side guy to T up.

A descent 4.0 would put more than 70% of the balls past the service line. The guy in white put what maybe 20-25% past the service line. How is that 4.0 anywhere ? [emoji102] How is that is even 3.5 ?
Click to expand...

I was on a family vacation down in Orlando recently and did a 3.0+ drop in clinic at the USTA National Training Center (it was the only time slot that worked for me). The place is really cool; we were on a Playsight court although we didn't use it. Anyway I would guess, being a USTA center, they followed the ratings pretty well. And the guys I played with were completely terrible. I would assume--hope--they were all 3.0. So saying "how can they even be 3.5" to the people in this video is ridiculous. If you calibrated off the Center's own 3.0s these guys could be 4.5.
 
g4driver

g4driver

Legend
time_fly said:
I was on a family vacation down in Orlando recently and did a 3.0+ drop in clinic at the USTA National Training Center (it was the only time slot that worked for me). The place is really cool; we were on a Playsight court although we didn't use it. Anyway I would guess, being a USTA center, they followed the ratings pretty well. And the guys I played with were completely terrible. I would assume--hope--they were all 3.0. So saying "how can they even be 3.5" to the people in this video is ridiculous. If you calibrated off the Center's own 3.0s these guys could be 4.5.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps the 3.0 guys you hit with are simply 3.0 players. Do you know what a "Vanity 4.5" or a Vanity tennis player is? Someone is belongs at least one level lower. They carry a rating they can't back up. It makes some people feel good to have rating to validate themselves. Most guys would take the actual skill and the lower DNTRP rating. Just the way it is. Shroud can backup his rating.

I played with a Vanity 4.5 on Tuesday. He is closer to 3.5 than 4.5 and we got our teeth kicked in by a solid 4.5 and one of my 4.0 friends/ teammates from another team. I got several texts from teammates asking "is he a 4.5 or 4.0?"

And please read my quote and comments again. My comments are based on viewing the OP's original video and nothing else and specifically at the player on the far court in white, not at Shroud. Those short feeds ain't 3.5 from 35 years of playing tennis.
 
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L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
g4driver said:
Or perhaps the 3.0 guys you hit with are simply 3.0 players. Do you know what a "Vanity 4.5" or a Vanity tennis player is? Someone is belongs at least one level lower. They carry a rating they can't back up. It makes some people feel good to have rating to validate themselves. Most guys would take the actual skill and the lower DNTRP rating. Just the way it is. Shroud can backup his rating.

I played with a Vanity 4.5 on Tuesday. He is closer to 3.5 than 4.5 and we got our teeth kicked in by a solid 4.5 and one of my 4.0 friends/ teammates from another team. I got several texts from teammates asking "is he a 4.5 or 4.0?"

And please read my quote and comments again. The comment is directed at one player on the far court in white, not at Shroud. Those short feeds ain't 3.5 from 35 years of playing tennis.
Click to expand...

Still trying to guess wrong from just looking at this video? Wow, you'd think someone would read previous posts.
Papa would destroy you without blinking. When I met him, 4 year's ago, he was hitting dead even with RobFL, a Nationally ranked 4.5 level player. I was tentative to join in, knowing they both were hitting pretty good.
Shows one vid doesn't tell the whole story.
 
g4driver

g4driver

Legend
LeeD said:
Still trying to guess wrong from just looking at this video? Wow, you'd think someone would read previous posts.
Papa would destroy you without blinking. When I met him, 4 year's ago, he was hitting dead even with RobFL, a Nationally ranked 4.5 level player. I was tentative to join in, knowing they both were hitting pretty good.
Shows one vid doesn't tell the whole story.
Click to expand...

Like I wrote, I watched one video with the guy giving short feeds. I did what the OP asked. Watched a video and made my assessment. If that offends you, that's on you. You are getting wound up pretty tight on something I don t GARA about.

LeeD, I am not wasting my time reading your posts or others or watching more videos. I watched a video and it doesn't matter it the guy is 2.5 or 5.5. A 5.5 can look like 3.0 if he wants to.

I hopefully wake up tomorrow am and continue to enjoy my life. Watching rec players hit tennis balls on home video isn't something I want to waste any more time doing. Best wishes to you.
 
Zoolander

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
Papa Mango said:
What's a veggie platter?

Here you go .. this is a more recent video shot a few weeks ago. Slightly below average tennis on the day since it was hot, I was hung over and I couldn't restring my rackets the night before and I forget what else was wrong that day.
I am the guy in the hat.

Hoping to get the bump to 3.5 in TTPS ratings!
Click to expand...

Hey Papa i think you sell yourself short. That very first backhand you hit had R.Federer written all over it! And if it takes HIS level of skill to shank and mis-hit backhands wildly, i think your higher than you give yourself credit for. And plus, Roger can never complain that his racquets arent restrung or he was hungover or too hot etc etc. So judging by that one shot, i think your at least 5.5 or higher. ;)
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
g4driver said:
Like I wrote, I watched one video with the guy giving short feeds. I did what the OP asked. Watched a video and made my assessment. If that offends you, that's on you. You are getting wound up pretty tight on something I don t GARA about.

LeeD, I am not wasting my time reading your posts or others or watching more videos. I watched a video and it doesn't matter it the guy is 2.5 or 5.5. A 5.5 can look like 3.0 if he wants to.

I hopefully wake up tomorrow am and continue to enjoy my life. Watching rec players hit tennis balls on home video isn't something I want to waste any more time doing. Best wishes to you.
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A fool and his money are soon parted.
But yes, he does, and obviously CAN, hit like a 3.0. But he's a USTA 4.0.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I can understand, sorry....
Remember that old video of Milos Raonic trying to get his groove back? He was wearing a red shirt, and spraying mostly forehands into the ground, then 20 feet long. Maybe he hit about half his forehands into the court, the rest groundies or into the backfence, and even the sidefence.
This was a rating question.
I gave him, KNOWING it was Milos, a "5.0 hitting, very erratic, but could be a very good player". I got flak from everyone, them saying I rated Milos as a 5.0. I was in the same place as you.
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Good grief. Video contains two players who are known to be NorCal 4.0C players, and still people are calling them 3.5. You think NorCal just hands out 4.0 ratings to anyone who shows up? You think there is no competition there? Lol. Everyone should post videos of the 4.0s in their section. Would love to see all these supposed 24 year old ex-D1 players who can't win in their 4.0 section. Lol.
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
LeeD said:
I can understand, sorry....
Remember that old video of Milos Raonic trying to get his groove back? He was wearing a red shirt, and spraying mostly forehands into the ground, then 20 feet long. Maybe he hit about half his forehands into the court, the rest groundies or into the backfence, and even the sidefence.
This was a rating question.
I gave him, KNOWING it was Milos, a "5.0 hitting, very erratic, but could be a very good player". I got flak from everyone, them saying I rated Milos as a 5.0. I was in the same place as you.
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I remember that. But it was Del Potro.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
LeeD said:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
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And that pithy saying is relevant...how?

But yes, he does, and obviously CAN, hit like a 3.0. But he's a USTA 4.0.
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To draw on the legal world, you have to recuse yourself because you A) already know the answer to the question posed; and B) know and have played with/against both guys.

@g4driver attempted to answer the OP's question. He didn't have the information or experience you had. Criticizing him for giving the wrong answer when you already knew what it was is like me giving you a quiz on something you know little about but I know a great deal about and harshing on you when you get the answers wrong.
 
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