For me, Fed has surpassed Jordan, Brady and Gretzky

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Basketball is hardly global? Why don’t you tell Spain, Turkey, France, Argentina, Serbia, etc. That?
By trying to make your point you have just demonstrated the opposite. Basketball is not remotely a global sport in any meaningful way.

As @ScentOfDefeat said, it is an extremely American-centric sport. Most of the best players from those countries you listed even aspire to go to America to play. Their home league is basically a boobie prize career, regardless of how popular it might be locally.

Basketball's appeal is primarily that it's good, and very easy, to watch and comes in highly polished, regular TV packaging. Frequency of decent matches is half the appeal of a sport like basketball in the same way NASCAR is so popular in the US while F1 can barely dent the US market despite being massively more popular globally (not to mention attracts better talent).
 

TheMaestro1990

Hall of Fame
Let me lay it down: Messi is by far the best footballer ever and is without a doubt a top 3 great in his sport (in my mind he is number 1). While football is a team sport, it’s hard to blame Messi for the final losses (he has ten other players on his team). But the fact that he hasn’t really played at his absolute best in those finals and proved to be a leader, he can’t be the GOAT athlete. Messi still needs the sort of moment Federer had against Nadal in last year’s AO final.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
You defending Messi for losing to Chile twice while having Alexis avis recently is kinda funny. :D

True greats have success on both fronts, no?
2017-10-17T200724Z_999761207_RC13B77C7E50_RTRMADP_3_SOCCER-CHAMPIONS-MAD-TOT.jpg

Kidding kidding :p

I know you're joking but Cristiano isn't even close to being in the same tier as Messi. Most Real Madrid fans i know openly admit he was never in the same class as the Argentine.
Messi is up there with Maradonna, Pele, and Cryuff and has a decent claim to being the best of all time. Ronaldo,I think You'll find on most forums, is a consensus 8-12 player. And even that is due to longevity rather than peak play. It's not a slight, but he doesn't belong in the disussion with th3 all time greats.

From the Madrid folk, Zidane probably has the best claim to being a top 5 player *although most would put him below Brazilian Ronaldo on the all time list. And yes, I realize that Ronaldo Nazario played for Madrid and was immense. Still, the peak version of R9 was with Inter and Barcelona.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Cristiano Ronaldo, George Best.

Messi is certainly in that group but it is a bit of stretch to suggest he is #1.

Like saying Sampras is #1 in a group that comprises Laver, Borg, Nadal, and Federer.

Absolutely not. Cristiano Ronaldo, Franz B, and George Best aren' even in th4 same tier.
Its Maradonna, Messi,and Pele with most people giving the nod to the two Argentines as the top 2 ,followed by Cruyff, Ronaldo N, Zidane, and then Beckenbaur. The third tier picks up from there.

It's adorable how you tried to squeeze Cristiano's name with players who are much, much better than he is.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Nah...they're both 4th all time in their sports.

Sampras ranks behind Federer, Laver and Nadal.

Messi ranks behind Maradona, Pele and Di Stefano.

So be it.

Di Stafano is polarizing because it's a Bill Russell/Wilt situation. Most don' know how to rank them because they dominated in the incipiency of the sport. They'd almost certainly not stand out as much had they played today.

Most who are old enough to have watched them rank them at the very top (top 3 or 4) while those who haven't, put them in the 3rd tier at the bottom end of the top 10.

I still think you'd be hardpressed to find any one who ranks ADiStefano ahead of Messi.
The consensus (rightly or wrongly) seems to be Messi/Maradonna in either order, and then Pele.
 

TheAssassin

Legend
I know you're joking but Cristiano isn't even close to being in the same tier as Messi. Most Real Madrid fans i know openly admit he was never in the same class as the Argentine.
Messi is up there with Maradonna, Pele, and Cryuff and has a decent claim to being the best of all time. Ronaldo,I think You'll find on most forums, is a consensus 8-12 player. And even that is due to longevity rather than peak play. It's not a slight, but he doesn't belong in the disussion with th3 all time greats.

From the Madrid folk, Zidane probably has the best claim to being a top 5 player *although most would put him below Brazilian Ronaldo on the all time list. And yes, I realize that Ronaldo Nazario played for Madrid and was immense. Still, the peak version of R9 was with Inter and Barcelona.
Cristiano is in the top 10 if you ask me, at his peak he contributed a lot overall, not just with goals. The latter is something he still does today. Zizou is in that group too. But yes Messi does have a legit claim to be #1. That guy is everything from a central midfielder to a striker. Stunning.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
Cristiano is in the top 10 if you ask me, at his peak he contributed a lot overall, not just with goals. The latter is something he still does today. Zizou is in that group too. But yes Messi does have a legit claim to be #1. That guy is everything from a central midfielder to a striker. Stunning.
It's a shame that a good part of today's kids are so delusional and think Cristiano is on the same level as Leo. Here is hoping they will grow up properly.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
It's a shame that a good part of today's kids are so delusional and think Cristiano is on the same level as Leo. Here is hoping they will grow up properly.

It's a shame that a lot of other people think Cristiano is a plumber. They'd try and tell me that he wouldn't get on the Wycombe team.

You could at least show him some appreciation for what he did at United. Not asking you to call him goat. Just point me in the direction where you say something nice and we're all good. :p
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
It's a shame that a lot of other people think Cristiano is a plumber. They'd try and tell me that he wouldn't get on the Wycombe team.

You could at least show him some appreciation for what he did at United. Not asking you to call him goat. Just point me in the direction where you say something nice and we're all good. :p
What do you think is the reason I am showing butthurt? :D Moving from paradise to cancer of football is something I find extremely hard to forgive, even 9 years later. :p
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Cristiano is in the top 10 if you ask me, at his peak he contributed a lot overall, not just with goals. The latter is something he still does today. Zizou is in that group too. But yes Messi does have a legit claim to be #1. That guy is everything from a central midfielder to a striker. Stunning.

I think so. I think it's fair to say he gets in at the bottom of the top 10. Many would have him just outside, on the flipside.
Regarding his contributions, I think he contributes less in terms gameplay than any other top 12 player but we can't forget about goals, because they are important, and that's the reason he's in the top 10.

Zidane, in my opinion, is comfortably better, though.
Good luck in Europe.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
And it's astonishing how the Messi brigade gets so triggered when Ronnie receives any kind of praise. :p

I am not Messi fan and I'm certainly not "triggered", neither are most neutrals who take it upon themsleves to educate myopic Cristiano fans about football and correctly point out that their favourite isn't as good a player as they think he might be.

That doesn't make the masses Messi fans or overzealous Messi fans. I've hardly come across anyone I've ever met who isn't a Manchester United or Real Madrid fan who even considers this a discussion. Plenty of United and Madrid fans, on the other hand, agree with the consensus and don' think Cristiano is comparable to the Messi's of the sport.
Does that make these Madrid fans part of the "Messi brigade"?
 

TheAssassin

Legend
I think so. I think it's fair to say he gets in at the bottom of the top 10. Many would have him just outside, on the flipside.
Regarding his contributions, I think he contributes less in terms gameplay than any other top 12 player but we can't forget about goals, because they are important, and that's the reason he's in the top 10.

Zidane, in my opinion, is comfortably better, though.
Good luck in Europe.
That's fair.

Madrid will need a lot of that luck as things stand. :oops: As things stand I'd almost favor Man United over them to go all the way and that's scary, but I wouldn't mind that happening at all. :p
I am not Messi fan and I'm certainly not "triggered", neither are most neutrals who take it upon themsleves to educate myopic Cristiano fans about football and correctly point out that their favourite isn't as good a player as they think he might be.

That doesn't make the masses Messi fans or overzealous Messi fans. I've hardly come across anyone I've ever met who isn't a Manchester United or Real Madrid fan who even considers this a discussion. Plenty of United and Madrid fans, on the other hand, agree with the consensus and don' think Cristiano is comparable to the Messi's of the sport.
Does that make these Madrid fans part of the "Messi brigade"?
I wasn't targeting you man, or any particular poster here. :D Just in general those who claim Cristiano is only useful for simple tap-ins and penalties, that he is an average footballer. I myself rate Messi higher without any doubt but those guys need a reality check just as much as Cristiano's hardcore fans IMO.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Di Stafano is polarizing because it's a Bill Russell/Wilt situation. Most don' know how to rank them because they dominated in the incipiency of the sport. They'd almost certainly not stand out as much had they played today.

Most who are old enough to have watched them rank them at the very top (top 3 or 4) while those who haven't, put them in the 3rd tier at the bottom end of the top 10.

I still think you'd be hardpressed to find any one who ranks ADiStefano ahead of Messi.
The consensus (rightly or wrongly) seems to be Messi/Maradonna in either order, and then Pele.

Semi-agree on Di Stefano.

Certainly don't agree on Messi being top 2 - if he's placed there in polls, it's because of younger snowflake viewers, who haven't witnessed previous footballing greats.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
[QUO
That's fair.

Madrid will need a lot of that luck as things stand. :oops: As things stand I'd almost favor Man United over them to go all the way and that's scary, but I wouldn't mind that happening at all. :p

I wasn't targeting you man, or any particular poster here. :D Just in general those who claim Cristiano is only useful for simple tap-ins and penalties, that he is an average footballer. I myself rate Messi higher without any doubt but those guys need a reality check just as much as Cristiano's hardcore fans IMO.

United have absolutely no chance of beating the heavyweights, do they?
They just got annihilated against Tottenham and Jose Mourinho will inevitably play 4-2-3-1 against the top brass,which is kamikaze.

Unless a light bulb goes off and they go with 3 in the middle, they'll continue to struggle against all the bigwigs away.

Your season depends on the UCL now and the first step is PSG. Get past that and then worry about the rest. I still refuse to believe all your core players declined this drastically overnight. If it's a matter if motivation, they'll have plenty of that in a week's time.

Huge match.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Semi-agree on Di Stefano.

Certainly don't agree on Messi being top 2 - if he's placed there in polls, it's because of younger snowflake viewers, who haven't witnessed previous footballing greats.

Yeah, im sure that's it. Almost every football fan on the planet is a "snowfkake", whatever that means.
Nearly every football fan has him as a top 3 player and a large majority of them have him in the top 2.

If you disagree, you're in a very small minority, not the other way around. Lots of the older fans and older players who watched or participated in football during the previous eras rank him as the greatest ever, so you're statement is laughably ridiculous.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, im sure that's it. Almost every football fan on the planet is a "snowfkake", whatever that means.
Nearly every football fan has him as a top 3 player and a large majority of them have him in the top 2.

If you disagree, you're in a very small minority, not the other way around. Lots of the older fans and older players who watched or participated in football during the previous eras rank him as the greatest ever, so you're statement is laughably ridiculous.

Please provide proof for the statement in bold.

Messi is by no means greater than Maradona or Pele. How can he be, when he has not won the World Cup, despite playing for a strong footballing nation?

:cool:
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
[QUO


United have absolutely no chance of beating the heavyweights, do they?
They just got annihilated against Tottenham and Jose Mourinho will inevitably play 4-2-3-1 against the top brass,which is kamikaze.

Unless a light bulb goes off and they go with 3 in the middle, they'll continue to struggle against all the bigwigs away.

Your season depends on the UCL now and the first step is PSG. Get past that and then worry about the rest. I still refuse to believe all your core players declined this drastically overnight. If it's a matter if motivation, they'll have plenty of that in a week's time.

Huge match.

Yeah, I don't see that lightbulb going off. Was funny, I was just talking about a Sopranos character that would never change his spots for anybody. Jose Mourinho all over. I just want to see United bring something against a big team again.
 

Bluefan75

Professional
By trying to make your point you have just demonstrated the opposite. Basketball is not remotely a global sport in any meaningful way.

As @ScentOfDefeat said, it is an extremely American-centric sport. Most of the best players from those countries you listed even aspire to go to America to play. Their home league is basically a boobie prize career, regardless of how popular it might be locally.

Basketball's appeal is primarily that it's good, and very easy, to watch and comes in highly polished, regular TV packaging. Frequency of decent matches is half the appeal of a sport like basketball in the same way NASCAR is so popular in the US while F1 can barely dent the US market despite being massively more popular globally (not to mention attracts better talent).

Almost half of the NBA is made up of players not from the US, but because the money is in the US, therefore it's not a global sport?

Do you really want to go to the "ask kids in whatever country if they know Lebron James? Roger Federer?" I don't think you would like the outcome of that one.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
Where I live (North America), RF is literally the most underappreciated athlete there is. No one ever talks about him when discussing GOAT athletes tbh. The usual candidates in that debate always boil down to names like LeBron, MJ, Brady, Gretzky, Mayweather, and Tiger, and every once in a while we'd hear about Phelps, Bolt and Messi/Ronaldo; but hardly ever about RF.
 
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Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Please provide proof for the statement in bold.

Messi is by no means greater than Maradona or Pele. How can he be, when he has not won the World Cup, despite playing for a strong footballing nation?

:cool:
Is this a bad joke? Turn on the tv. Every 20 seconds, there's a football figure from a different generation talking about him as either the greatest ever or at the very least 2nd to Diego:

Lionel Messi will go down in history as the No. 1 player of all time, the best that there ever was.

- Ossie Ardiles

Messi is out of this planet, I would say he is so far ahead of the rest of the players playing right now and I would say historically as well. There are not words to describe him. - Ardilles

Messi is better than Maradona and Pelé. Every week he shows that he is capable of things that no one had done until now. Messi defies the laws of anatomy, he must have an extra bone in his ankle --Carlos Bianchi,

Messi is Maradona every day. He has played at the level of Maradona in 1986 for the past five years-Jorge Valdano, 2013

Messi is the best player I've ever seen, better than Maradona and Cruyff combined -Marcial Pina

He's a problem solver, a game changer, the greatest player to have played the game. I am more than 60 years old now, and I don't believe that I've seen, or that I'm likely to see, anyone better in my lifetime. The world's best when I was growing up was Pele and he would have been a great player now, too, but Messi surpasses him. He's also way out ahead of Diego Maradona - it's not even close anymore - Graeme Souness, 2015

Messi makes the difference. I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona-Paolo Maldini, 2015

Who is the Best Player in the World? Leo Messi. Who is the Best Player Ever? Leo Messi." -Arsene Wenger

I like Messi a lot, he’s a great player. Technically, we’re practically at the same level- Pele

I never ever thought I would say that there was a better player than Maradona since he was in my time and I was in awe of him, but I honestly think for a number of reasons that Messi has surpassed him. He can do anything that Maradona did, and he does it more frequently and consistently-Gary Lineker, 2015

The best by far is Messi. Second is Maradona, third is Pele and Di Stefano. Fifth is Cruyff, Zidane or Pele - José Luis Chilavert, 2015


"Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football." Luis Enrique

"Messi is the best player ever. And this is said by someone who has seen Maradona and Pele play." - AC Milan chief Adriano Galliani

I think about the great players with whom I have shared a pitch: Eric Cantona, Zinedine Zidane, Pirlo, Xavi, Cristiano Ronaldo – and the greatest of them all is Messi - Paul Scholes, 2015

Messi is best player ever. Some say Pele, Cruyff or Maradona, but none of them was as decisive as Messi-Ronald Koeman

"I have played against Platini, Maradona, Cruyff and played with George Best — a lot of big names, but none of them has been able to do what Messi does. Two years ago I said that the best player I played against was Maradona and the best player I have played with was Bestie. But I can now say I have never seen a player as good as Messi. He’s in a league of his own." - Former Tottenham star Gerry Armstrong

"Fella’s a genius. Best ever by a distance in my life time. Never really saw Pele… Souness, Gullit, Venables and now Rooney agree Messi is the best they have seen. He plays a game with which we are not familiar." - Gary Lineker

"I played with Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Laudrup and Stoichkov but Messi is the best I’ve seen." - Former Barcelona and Chelsea star Albert Ferrer

"Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual." - Tostão


"Comparing CR7 to Messi is an exercise of ignorance in football. Messi is Messi and others, footballers." - Spanish manager Miguel Angel Lotina


I genuinely cannot believe that you asked me to show you stuff that's been on every television station and repeated in multiple documentaries over the years. It's either you've been living under a rock or that you don' understand football. Everyone has heard statements from Maradona's ex teammates rating Messi ahead of him and footballers playing against Maradona doing the same.

Some of them have been made in UCL finals (Souness in 2011 for example) so the entire world heard them except for You, it seems

Regarding the secnd statement, are you serious or you just trying to be daft? Need I explain to you that there are 11 footballers on a pitch and that no one individual singleshandidly wins a tournament?
The difference between 1986 and 2014 was that Maradona's teammates took their chances and Messi's didn't.
Their legacies are not predicated on whether a teammate scored or messed up a chance. They'e out of the play at that point.

Surely, this isn't too complicated. Do you watch football, at all?
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Yeah, I don't see that lightbulb going off. Was funny, I was just talking about a Sopranos character that would never change his spots for anybody. Jose Mourinho all over. I just want to see United bring something against a big team again.

Are you a Manchester United fan by any chance?
If they draw Roma or Shakhtar, I can see how the possibilities increase. But if the draw is tough for the quarter finals, I don't see how parking the bus and lumping it forward to Lukaku against the European elites, is going to work. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Are you a Manchester United fan by any chance?
If they draw Roma or Shakhtar, I can see how the possibilities increase. But if the draw is tough for the quarter finals, I don't see how parking the bus and lumping it forward to Lukaku against the European elites, is going to work. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think you're wrong. I support United. I'm not that confident about the chances against Sevilla, nevermind what is beyond that. It would seem like he has the attack sorted out, but then that goes against his style and we're not really seeing what the attack is capable of. You would think the most important thing for him would be a world class centre back or a leader. Just comparing to his teams of old that had the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Pepe etc.
 

TheAssassin

Legend
Wait... Madrid will need a lot of luck? o_O

Who needs luck when you have papa Florentino? :)

tenor.gif
Posting stuff like this could bite you in the tushie in 2-3 months. Always watch out for the legendary karma. :p
[QUO


United have absolutely no chance of beating the heavyweights, do they?
They just got annihilated against Tottenham and Jose Mourinho will inevitably play 4-2-3-1 against the top brass,which is kamikaze.

Unless a light bulb goes off and they go with 3 in the middle, they'll continue to struggle against all the bigwigs away.

Your season depends on the UCL now and the first step is PSG. Get past that and then worry about the rest. I still refuse to believe all your core players declined this drastically overnight. If it's a matter if motivation, they'll have plenty of that in a week's time.

Huge match.
Slim chance but I wouldn't say absolutely no chance. Strange things can happen. But If Mourinho still wants to be defensive minded and play counter attacks in all big away games then he will have to spend more $$$ on getting better quality because this one isn't reliable despite some good numbers (least EPL goals conceded so far). Hopefully he will make good choices in the summer.

I don't think it's an overnight decline for everyone in Real either. Seems more like a slump and a bit of motivation loss after sweeping pretty much everything in 2017. Also the transfer business was quite poor, the team has lost some depth with departures of some players while not getting replacements. I think Real Madrid will be up for it in the CL but so will PSG after their previous disappointments in the competition. Neymar will be hyped. :eek:
I don't think you're wrong. I support United. I'm not that confident about the chances against Sevilla, nevermind what is beyond that. It would seem like he has the attack sorted out, but then that goes against his style and we're not really seeing what the attack is capable of. You would think the most important thing for him would be a world class centre back or a leader. Just comparing to his teams of old that had the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Pepe etc.
He said there won't be any major attacking signings in the summer. Though personally I'd like him to see one more arrive, the focus on other parts of the team that he indicated is good to hear. This has been an upgrade compared to the previous season (and all other post-Fergie seasons), and there are more improvements to come. Contrary to popular belief, Jose is taking his time here and isn't wrecking the atmosphere, team spirit n stuff. There is absolutely no doubt the guy will leave Man United in a better state than the one he found them in.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
He said there won't be any major attacking signings in the summer. Though personally I'd like him to see one more arrive, the focus on other parts of the team that he indicated is good to hear. This has been an upgrade compared to the previous season (and all other post-Fergie seasons), and there are more improvements to come. Contrary to popular belief, Jose is taking his time here and isn't wrecking the atmosphere, team spirit n stuff. There is absolutely no doubt the guy will leave Man United in a better state than the one he found them in.

Yeah, I'm not on the he will leave them worse off bandwagon. Still, I'd like to see some success while he is here. How greedy of me. I mean, even Sir LVG got us the FA CUP. I want Jose to lead United to a title. Not leaving United ready for somebody else to try and win the title.

Just get more frustrated after each time we underperform against a rival. And they're showing the best of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez right now as Rooney makes his guest appearance on Monday night football. :p
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Fedr.


Note:
Fedr is a registered ™ of EloQuent Systems International. Use of Fedr, in exact or approximate form, incl. Fed, Fred, Feddy, Freddy, Federer, direct or indirect semblance but not including bobble heads is explicitly with the known or unknown consent of EloQuent Systems International.
 

RudyHuxtable

Semi-Pro
Not sure about surpassing Jordan in status and recognition, but right up there in the conversation of all time sportsman.
On an international scale in particular
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Is this a bad joke? Turn on the tv. Every 20 seconds, there's a football figure from a different generation talking about him as either the greatest ever or at the very least 2nd to Diego:

Lionel Messi will go down in history as the No. 1 player of all time, the best that there ever was.

- Ossie Ardiles

Messi is out of this planet, I would say he is so far ahead of the rest of the players playing right now and I would say historically as well. There are not words to describe him. - Ardilles

Messi is better than Maradona and Pelé. Every week he shows that he is capable of things that no one had done until now. Messi defies the laws of anatomy, he must have an extra bone in his ankle --Carlos Bianchi,

Messi is Maradona every day. He has played at the level of Maradona in 1986 for the past five years-Jorge Valdano, 2013

Messi is the best player I've ever seen, better than Maradona and Cruyff combined -Marcial Pina

He's a problem solver, a game changer, the greatest player to have played the game. I am more than 60 years old now, and I don't believe that I've seen, or that I'm likely to see, anyone better in my lifetime. The world's best when I was growing up was Pele and he would have been a great player now, too, but Messi surpasses him. He's also way out ahead of Diego Maradona - it's not even close anymore - Graeme Souness, 2015

Messi makes the difference. I think he has reached and surpassed the level of Maradona-Paolo Maldini, 2015

Who is the Best Player in the World? Leo Messi. Who is the Best Player Ever? Leo Messi." -Arsene Wenger

I like Messi a lot, he’s a great player. Technically, we’re practically at the same level- Pele

I never ever thought I would say that there was a better player than Maradona since he was in my time and I was in awe of him, but I honestly think for a number of reasons that Messi has surpassed him. He can do anything that Maradona did, and he does it more frequently and consistently-Gary Lineker, 2015

The best by far is Messi. Second is Maradona, third is Pele and Di Stefano. Fifth is Cruyff, Zidane or Pele - José Luis Chilavert, 2015


"Messi is the best in the world without any doubt and for me the history of football." Luis Enrique

"Messi is the best player ever. And this is said by someone who has seen Maradona and Pele play." - AC Milan chief Adriano Galliani

I think about the great players with whom I have shared a pitch: Eric Cantona, Zinedine Zidane, Pirlo, Xavi, Cristiano Ronaldo – and the greatest of them all is Messi - Paul Scholes, 2015

Messi is best player ever. Some say Pele, Cruyff or Maradona, but none of them was as decisive as Messi-Ronald Koeman

"I have played against Platini, Maradona, Cruyff and played with George Best — a lot of big names, but none of them has been able to do what Messi does. Two years ago I said that the best player I played against was Maradona and the best player I have played with was Bestie. But I can now say I have never seen a player as good as Messi. He’s in a league of his own." - Former Tottenham star Gerry Armstrong

"Fella’s a genius. Best ever by a distance in my life time. Never really saw Pele… Souness, Gullit, Venables and now Rooney agree Messi is the best they have seen. He plays a game with which we are not familiar." - Gary Lineker

"I played with Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Laudrup and Stoichkov but Messi is the best I’ve seen." - Former Barcelona and Chelsea star Albert Ferrer

"Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual." - Tostão


"Comparing CR7 to Messi is an exercise of ignorance in football. Messi is Messi and others, footballers." - Spanish manager Miguel Angel Lotina


I genuinely cannot believe that you asked me to show you stuff that's been on every television station and repeated in multiple documentaries over the years. It's either you've been living under a rock or that you don' understand football. Everyone has heard statements from Maradona's ex teammates rating Messi ahead of him and footballers playing against Maradona doing the same.

Some of them have been made in UCL finals (Souness in 2011 for example) so the entire world heard them except for You, it seems

Regarding the secnd statement, are you serious or you just trying to be daft? Need I explain to you that there are 11 footballers on a pitch and that no one individual singleshandidly wins a tournament?
The difference between 1986 and 2014 was that Maradona's teammates took their chances and Messi's didn't.
Their legacies are not predicated on whether a teammate scored or messed up a chance. They'e out of the play at that point.

Surely, this isn't too complicated. Do you watch football, at all?

Of course I watch football, and I believe that the achievements of Maradona (single-handedly dragging mediocre Argentina and Napoli teams to victory), Pele (three World Cups and over 1,000 career goals) and Di Stefano (5 consecutive European Cups, inventing the club game as we know it) surpass those of Messi.

Btw, the greatest footballer of all time should be able to single-handedly inspire his team to victory, yes. Maradona did this for Argentina in 1986. Messi can do it when surrounded by the likes of Xavi and Iniesta at Barca but cannot do it when placed in a mediocre side for Argentina. Funny that eh?

Fair play to you for digging up all the quotes of those who have been hoodwinked by the hype of the Champions League, though.
 
It's hard enough comparing different eras within the same sport.

How the hell can you actually compare achievements across different sports?


What exactly do basketball and tennis have in common?
Easy. . Being a TT fedfanboy gives you the right to say anything.. and claim everything.​
 

TheAssassin

Legend
LMAO karma is EXACTLY what Real are tasting this season for all the previous cheating and I am loving every moment of it. All that remains is that Neymar shows you the way out of Europe and this is the best season ever. :cool::D
You're lucky that you're a Red Devil, that's the only reason I still tolerate all your crap here and in the football thread. ;)
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Almost half of the NBA is made up of players not from the US, but because the money is in the US, therefore it's not a global sport?
Further proving the point it is not a global sport. If the pinnacle of the sport and the only truly meaningful league is in the US the it's a US-centric sport. That Spain, Turkey and a few other places also love it equates to another couple of per cent of the world.

Do you really want to go to the "ask kids in whatever country if they know Lebron James? Roger Federer?" I don't think you would like the outcome of that one.
You're asking the wrong question. If you ask people globally which athlete they know more people would know Federer now than Lebron even despite the insane US media hype machine he has pushing him everywhere - often in lieu of Tiger Woods having long since fallen from their graces. The thing is Lebron isn't as aspirational (or inspiring) as Federer is globally. Lebron, like other basketballers, benefits massively from the US-driven hype machine and the fact that basketball fashion has a massive crossover into mainstream culture. It's not him that is popular when it comes to selling shoes - he just lucked being on basketball shoes - the vast majority of which are never worn for playing sport.
 

Wander

Hall of Fame
#99 is close imo as he truly was the great one.
brady on the other hand... fedr lapped him already. twice.
Gretzky was truly a staggeringly dominant hockey player, but it should be kept in perspective when talking about hockey that even today nearly 50% of the NHL players are Canadian. During Gretzky's period of dominance this number was about 70%.

The argument against many of these North American league-centric sports is that their talent pool is largely focused in North America. The argument against tennis is that it's not among the four most popular sports in the United States. Ultimately these things will always come down to personal preference because we can't even compare numbers straight up.
 

letstakeourshirtsoff

Professional
yeah i mean the whole 'let us compare athletes from different sports' agenda is kinda silly really. after all, a sport/game is largely defined by it's set of rules and being good at a sport means doing better than others within those rules.
 
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