Should Women Play Five Sets?

R

rmontro

Rookie
After seeing the epic Nadal/Thiem match yesterday in the heat and humidity, you realize the physical feat that a five set match can be. Women want, or get, equal money in tournaments. Why can't they play five sets?

I don't believe that they are incapable of it, some women are more conditioned than men. Seriously, what is the reason they only play two out of three? If you say that they would take up too much court time or that no one would want to watch a female five set match, then you're saying that women's tennis is not a priority, or a sufficient draw. And many would argue that is not so.

So why shouldn't they have the opportunity to put on the kind of display that Nadal and Thiem did? At least during the majors? They would more fully have equality this way.
 
R

reaper

Legend
rmontro said:
After seeing the epic Nadal/Thiem match yesterday in the heat and humidity, you realize the physical feat that a five set match can be. Women want, or get, equal money in tournaments. Why can't they play five sets?

I don't believe that they are incapable of it, some women are more conditioned than men. Seriously, what is the reason they only play two out of three? If you say that they would take up too much court time or that no one would want to watch a female five set match, then you're saying that women's tennis is not a priority, or a sufficient draw. And many would argue that is not so.

So why shouldn't they have the opportunity to put on the kind of display that Nadal and Thiem did? At least during the majors? They would more fully have equality this way.
Click to expand...

The BO3/BO5 split is a relic of attitudes that existed 100+ years ago when women were seen as delicate little petals. I think there's a scheduling problem at many events if women play BO5 from the start. If that's the case make it BO5 from (say) RO 16. There's little doubt women's tennis suffers from abbreviated matches at slams.
 
TagUrIt

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
max said:
I don't think women should and neither should the men.
Click to expand...


I agree, I think the best of 3 could make for a very entertaining ATP match. They would give everything they have for sure. (not saying they don't already)
 
ScentOfDefeat

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Here we go again.
Who's going to say "it's a disgrace that women are paid as much as men to play fewer sets!" only to be debunked a few posts later by someone saying "women actually wanted to play best of 5 but the powers to be thought it would be unenforceable".
Why do we have to go through this again and again and again?
 
R

rmontro

Rookie
Men play a lot of three set matches during minor tournaments, but I've never seen women play five setters. I think it would be interesting to see them have to go the extra mile.

max said:
I don't think women should and neither should the men.
Click to expand...
Are you saying this because you find five set matches boring, or because you think they are too physically taxing on the players?

ScentOfDefeat said:
Who's going to say "it's a disgrace that women are paid as much as men to play fewer sets!" only to be debunked a few posts later by someone saying "women actually wanted to play best of 5 but the powers to be thought it would be unenforceable".
Click to expand...
Not me. I'm only interested in it from a tennis standpoint. I think the women's game could benefit from playing five set matches.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Honestly I'd much rather stick with the lack of equal work for equal pay than have the WTA play best of five and screw up the schedules even more
 
oldmanfan

oldmanfan

Legend
Screw Bo3 vs. Bo5 between WTA vs. ATP. Equal pay is just smoke and mirrors. WTA/ATP are not paid by the hour, but by their 'attraction' which is shown by revenues from ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Make WTA and ATP slams separate, and let them earn their keep from said ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Or better yet, let them all compete in the same draws; no separation between WTA/ATP. That's TRUE equality.

Somehow I don't think the WTA wants either of those options (they would get paid way less, based on current WTA/ATP fields). But they still want equal pay though...
 
Ann

Ann

Hall of Fame
oldmanfan said:
Screw Bo3 vs. Bo5 between WTA vs. ATP. Equal pay is just smoke and mirrors. WTA/ATP are not paid by the hour, but by their 'attraction' which is shown by revenues from ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Make WTA and ATP slams separate, and let them earn their keep from said ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Or better yet, let them all compete in the same draws; no separation between WTA/ATP. That's TRUE equality.

Somehow I don't think the WTA wants either of those options (they would get paid way less, based on current WTA/ATP fields). But they still want equal pay though...
Click to expand...
I'm not really sure how this rant had anything to do with should women play BO5 but I hope you feel better now that your feelings towards equal pay have been shared with the cosmos. May karma reward you.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
All your suggestions are asinine.

No one is paid anything.

Prize money is bestowed by the organisers without explicit reference to revenues.

All the available evidence demonstrates that prize money for both sexes is low compared to revenues generated.

oldmanfan said:
Screw Bo3 vs. Bo5 between WTA vs. ATP. Equal pay is just smoke and mirrors. WTA/ATP are not paid by the hour, but by their 'attraction' which is shown by revenues from ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Make WTA and ATP slams separate, and let them earn their keep from said ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Or better yet, let them all compete in the same draws; no separation between WTA/ATP. That's TRUE equality.

Somehow I don't think the WTA wants either of those options (they would get paid way less, based on current WTA/ATP fields). But they still want equal pay though...
Click to expand...
 
M

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Literally everyone is avoiding OP’s question:
Why can’t women play 5 sets?

There’s no answer because they can and they should. At least if they want to get paid the same as the men. I challenge you to provide a counter argument that isn’t sexist BS
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Ann said:
If the women want to play 5 sets and their fans want them to play 5 sets, why should their non-fans even have an opinion?
Click to expand...

? I love womens tennis.
The answer is simple, a woman isnt going to last shot for shot in a drinking contest with a man... a woman isnt going to lift as much weight as a man, etc. What people act like they dont get is that for a woman, a long 3 setter FEELS like a 5 setter to them. I love how everyone will go on and on about apples to oranges and how a woman couldnt win 1 game off a man, then turn around and act like women should play BO5. They are already competing at their highest level, they dont want to play BO5, they say they do to quell idiocy.
 
I

ik_ben_groot

Guest
Heck no. Those matches would be so long. Women's matches consistently take an hour a set
 
M

merwy

G.O.A.T.
MichaelNadal said:
? I love womens tennis.
The answer is simple, a woman isnt going to last shot for shot in a drinking contest with a man... a woman isnt going to lift as much weight as a man, etc. What people act like they dont get is that for a woman, a long 3 setter FEELS like a 5 setter to them. I love how everyone will go on and on about apples to oranges and how a woman couldnt win 1 game off a man, then turn around and act like women should play BO5. They are already competing at their highest level, they dont want to play BO5, they say they do to quell idiocy.
Click to expand...
How do you know a 3 set match feels like a 5 set match to a woman? When have you ever been a woman? Men and women play the same amount of sets during the regular tour and they both look just as tired after the match. They’re also playing other women, remember that.
 
Ann

Ann

Hall of Fame
MichaelNadal said:
? I love womens tennis.
The answer is simple, a woman isnt going to last shot for shot in a drinking contest with a man... a woman isnt going to lift as much weight as a man, etc. What people act like they dont get is that for a woman, a long 3 setter FEELS like a 5 setter to them. I love how everyone will go on and on about apples to oranges and how a woman couldnt win 1 game off a man, then turn around and act like women should play BO5. They are already competing at their highest level, they dont want to play BO5, they say they do to quell idiocy.
Click to expand...
That's the silliest analogy of all time. Women can't drink as much booze because they're smaller and have a higher body fat content per pound. Women can't lift as much weight because they have less upper body strength. You called it ---- apples to oranges because NONE OF THIS has anything to do with stamina. Women run marathons, women swim the English channel, women climb mountains. Stop thinking of women as these frail little creatures that you need to make decisions for. You're one of the nice guys here but women can make their own choices and they can kick a lot more arse than you think they can.
 
icedevil0289

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
oldmanfan said:
Screw Bo3 vs. Bo5 between WTA vs. ATP. Equal pay is just smoke and mirrors. WTA/ATP are not paid by the hour, but by their 'attraction' which is shown by revenues from ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Make WTA and ATP slams separate, and let them earn their keep from said ads/tv/tickets/food/etc.

Or better yet, let them all compete in the same draws; no separation between WTA/ATP. That's TRUE equality.

Somehow I don't think the WTA wants either of those options (they would get paid way less, based on current WTA/ATP fields). But they still want equal pay though...
Click to expand...
you make absolutely no sense, also if we are talking about attraction value, guess what only a handful of players on either side bring in the ads/tickets and in quite a few cases many would much rather pay to see serena/venus over your non top 5 player on the men's side so spare me when it comes to entertainment value.

y'all are thick and ridiculous.
 
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icedevil0289

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Ann said:
That's the silliest analogy of all time. Women can't drink as much booze because they're smaller and have a higher body fat content per pound. Women can't lift as much weight because they have less upper body strength. You called it ---- apples to oranges because NONE OF THIS has anything to do with stamina. Women run marathons, women swim the English channel, women climb mountains. Stop thinking of women as these frail little creatures that you need to make decisions for. You're one of the nice guys here but women can make their own choices and they can kick a lot more arse than you think they can.
Click to expand...
"nice" guys tbh
 
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icedevil0289

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
merwy said:
How do you know a 3 set match feels like a 5 set match to a woman? When have you ever been a woman? Men and women play the same amount of sets during the regular tour and they both look just as tired after the match. They’re also playing other women, remember that.
Click to expand...
ikr what kind of condescending/mansplaining ********
 
icedevil0289

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Ann said:
And Rafael Nadal has never played a match in under 5 hours (exaggerating just like you are)
Click to expand...

lol lbr with all this bs about fighter rafa, omg so epic (yes he is amazing talent and fighter ngl) part of the reason his matches go so long is on his own doing of style of play/taking years between points
 
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icedevil0289

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
MichaelNadal said:
? I love womens tennis.
The answer is simple, a woman isnt going to last shot for shot in a drinking contest with a man... a woman isnt going to lift as much weight as a man, etc. What people act like they dont get is that for a woman, a long 3 setter FEELS like a 5 setter to them. I love how everyone will go on and on about apples to oranges and how a woman couldnt win 1 game off a man, then turn around and act like women should play BO5. They are already competing at their highest level, they dont want to play BO5, they say they do to quell idiocy.
Click to expand...

love it when a man speaks on behalf of all women
 
oldmanfan

oldmanfan

Legend
icedevil0289 said:
you make absolutely no sense, also if we are talking about attraction value, guess what only a handful of players on either side bring in the ads/tickets and in quite a few cases many would much rather pay to see serena/venus over your non top 5 player on the men's side so spare me when it comes to entertainment value.

y'all are thick and ridiculous.
Click to expand...

You may be right, and I have no problems with it. I would be happy for the WTA players if they earned more than the ATP players based on what I proposed (Djokovic proposed the same a couple of years ago). Mike Tyson gets paid tens of millions of dollars for a 1-mintute fight, but your average Joes can fight for 12-rounds, 36 minutes and would only get a tiny fraction of that. Where's the 'equal prize money' debate then?

Separate WTA/ATP slams like what they did at the CanadaOpen; ATP plays in Toronto, and WTA plays in Montreal, in alternating years (and they each get their respective prize monies). This would be fair to both, and scheduling would be much simpler, too. Then, the 'equal prize money' would be a non-issue, and none of us would need to have this conversation.

'Bo3 vs. Bo5' and 'equal prize money' should NOT be mashed together. They're different things. I especially don't think WTA/ATP 'equal prize money' is even a valid point (WTA/ATP players are not office workers). They're separate entities. In the same way, I don't expect Home Depot and Lowes to share their revenues just because they both sell building products, similar to how the WTA/ATP both selling the same product; tennis.

EDIT: Nadal has said that female-models earn many times more than male-models, yet no equal-prize debate (MORE power to the female models I say). Yet there is issue with prize money of WTA/ATP when they are 2 separate entities and almost different sports. They don't even use the same-weight tennis balls!
 
Last edited:
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Yall would be in for a rude awakening if women played BO5. There would be retirements out the wazoo. Luckily common sense prevails and board warriors can stay pressed.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
merwy said:
Literally everyone is avoiding OP’s question:
Why can’t women play 5 sets?

There’s no answer because they can and they should. At least if they want to get paid the same as the men. I challenge you to provide a counter argument that isn’t sexist BS
Click to expand...
They can. For the 100th time, the women want to play B05 but the tournaments, ITF and broadcasters won’t also it due to scheduling. Many of the top players want B05 because they have the stamina such as Halep and Kerber and often lower players don’t and that’s why the upsets happen more with less sets, and before anyone says women can’t physically hold up, Halep played two 3 set matches on the same day en route to a final or title at a tournament. Can’t remember where but the women can play multiple sets. They used to do it in the 80s/90s after all.
 
C

coolboarder

Rookie
If women really want to play bo5 sets, then it has to be a separated event holding different dates for their own majors hosted by its Australia tennis federation, French Tennis Federation, USTA, and LTA to host one for logistic issues and Wimbledon might not be able to host women tournaments and not possible to host different dates as they have their own schedule with grass maintained. Until women wants to play a bo5 sets, we better to go with status quo. I think that most of them doesn't want that because they might be afraid that they would lose equal prize money if they find that fans would rather flock to men's Slam events than women.
 
Syfo-Dias

Syfo-Dias

Professional
Yeah, I'd like to see the women play best 5 sets in majors. It would be interesting to see how it shook things up considering the extra endurance needed.
 
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H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Aussie Darcy said:
They can. For the 100th time, the women want to play B05 but the tournaments, ITF and broadcasters won’t also it due to scheduling. Many of the top players want B05 because they have the stamina such as Halep and Kerber and often lower players don’t and that’s why the upsets happen more with less sets, and before anyone says women can’t physically hold up, Halep played two 3 set matches on the same day en route to a final or title at a tournament. Can’t remember where but the women can play multiple sets. They used to do it in the 80s/90s after all.
Click to expand...

Also, the longer a sports match is, the more likely it is that the better player will win. This is true no matter which sport or field is under discussion.
 
S

struggle

Legend
Pro set.

Kidding, i like women's tennis as much as the men's.......which means alot of it is rather boring.

I don't know the answer to this question except for the fact that they operate under two TOTALLY
different sets of governing bodies/rules. It's not just the Bo3/Bo5 thing. They also allow coaching, they
play with a different ball.....what else?
 
Slicerman

Slicerman

Professional
I think it made more sense that slams were BO5 in the past, since points went by quicker because everyone served & volleyed. But nowadays hardly anyone S&V and everyone just grinds from the baseline.

I think reducing men's grand slam to BO3 would help with increasing player's career longevity because there will be less wear on the body, and would also help with scheduling and TV programming issues.

Men's BO3 at slams would reduce their significance tbh. If they went that route then they shouldn't have a 1 day break. It would make slams easier than 1000, 500 or even 250 tournaments. Maybe go BO3 at slams but increase the draw and number of rounds?

IDK, too many things to consider. One thing is switching from BO5 to BO3 would kinda cheapen slam winners accomplishments compared to ones won in the past.
 
D

Deleted member 735320

Guest
They should not play best of 5, no one wants to see that. The issue is that we are therefore asked to deny the reality that men are physically capable of more impressive feats than their female counterparts. How many ladies in figure skating can land a triple Axel let alone the various quadruple jumps that their male counterparts routinely land. This does not make men inherently better than women but our current PC climate insists that we deny reality and pretend that certain observations are not real. The solution is to either allow the truth to be told or just have one tournament and see how Serena fares against Diego Schwartzman in the first round.
 
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