Should Women Play Five Sets?

[Rafa24]

1/4s, semis and finals yes for women.

men need to go back to bo5 at masters 1000s finals.

i agree with fed on the bo5. i can't believe it's even being discussed that men should play bo3.

 

[oldmanfan]

1/4s, semis and finals yes for women.

men need to go back to bo5 at masters 1000s finals.

i agree with fed on the bo5. i can't believe it's even being discussed that men should play bo3.

It's ridiculous isn't it? They want Bo3 for ATP slams bc they think it's better for TV with shorter matches (unproven bc the most memorable matches in history tend to be 5-set battles), and better for player longevity (likely true).

The problem?
Tennis, an ALREADY niche sports compared to the most popular sports, would basically become almost irrelevant. Sure, people would come out to watch, but likely much less so. This results in less revenue, so prize money would be reduced, and jobs will be lost (less players would be able to fund a large team as a result).

Also, if you ask any true tennis fans if they would rather see a 3-set epic or 5-set epic, how many would pick the former?

 

[True Fanerer]

Since the issue keeps coming up I say let em do it for a year and listen to everyone complain. Then immediately laugh about it and say I told you so when they switch back to BO3. I promise lessons will be learned after thousands of serve breaks and women tweeting from hospital rooms. It will never be brought up again.

 

[Gizo]

It’s far more likely that men’s grand slam matches will switch to best of 3 sets. I would strongly disagree with such a move (not least because grand slams would then be a lot less difficult to win than masters series events), but unfortunately I think it’s inevitable at some point.

Forget about non-Canada and Cincy masters series finals and the YEC final switching back to best of 5. That ain’t happening.

The only question is how gradual that switch, would be i.e. the US Open switching first and then the other slams following, initially the first 3-4 rounds switching to best of 3, with the latter rounds then eventually following suit etc.

I love a good 5 set thriller. I have to admit though that for my own personal schedule a competitive best of 3 set match is much more convenient. For example this year’s Australians Open final between Wonziacki and Halep which lasted for 2 hours and 49 minutes, was perfect for me time-wise.

A one sided straight sets best of 3 final, i.e. Kvitova-Bouchard at Wimbledon in 2014 which lasted less than an hour, feels far too short and anti-climatic though.

 

[helixx]

cant imagine to watch another set of keys vs CsN.. would die of boredom, same for the people in the stands.. this is what you wanna?!

 

[Deleted member 756486]

Three sets of women's tennis is hell. Five sets of that shrieking would be utter torture.

LOL.

 

[Ann]

Yall would be in for a rude awakening if women played BO5. There would be retirements out the wazoo. Luckily common sense prevails and board warriors can stay pressed.

Only the women that aren't in great condition because now they only have to play 3 sets.

 

[Ann]

They can. For the 100th time, the women want to play B05 but the tournaments, ITF and broadcasters won’t also it due to scheduling. Many of the top players want B05 because they have the stamina such as Halep and Kerber and often lower players don’t and that’s why the upsets happen more with less sets, and before anyone says women can’t physically hold up, Halep played two 3 set matches on the same day en route to a final or title at a tournament. Can’t remember where but the women can play multiple sets. They used to do it in the 80s/90s after all.

That simply can't be true because the males on this board have said women are too frail to play 5 sets, I mean they can't even run marathons or make it through 36 hours of childbirth or...

 

[Ann]

If women really want to play bo5 sets, then it has to be a separated event holding different dates for their own majors hosted by its Australia tennis federation, French Tennis Federation, USTA, and LTA to host one for logistic issues and Wimbledon might not be able to host women tournaments and not possible to host different dates as they have their own schedule with grass maintained. Until women wants to play a bo5 sets, we better to go with status quo. I think that most of them doesn't want that because they might be afraid that they would lose equal prize money if they find that fans would rather flock to men's Slam events than women.

Nonsense, there are enough courts to accommodate them.

 

[Ann]

Three sets of women's tennis is hell. Five sets of that shrieking would be utter torture.

Ugly statement.

 

[Ann]

They should not play best of 5, no one wants to see that. The issue is that we are therefore asked to deny the reality that men are physically capable of more impressive feats than their female counterparts. How many ladies in figure skating can land a triple Axel let alone the various quadruple jumps that their male counterparts routinely land. This does not make men inherently better than women but our current PC climate insists that we deny reality and pretend that certain observations are not real. The solution is to either allow the truth to be told or just have one tournament and see how Serena fares against Diego Schwartzman in the first round.

Except many of us do want to see it. Males don't want to see it but they don't watch women's sports anyway.

 

[Ann]

Only those women who want to be equal to men should play BO5. Normal women should play BO3.

Nice post oinker, comfy in your cave?

On ignore.

 

[Ann]

Since the issue keeps coming up I say let him do it for a year and listen to everyone complain. Then immediately laugh about it and say I told you so when they switch back to BO3. I promise lessons will be learned after thousands of serve breaks and women tweeting from hospital rooms. It will never be brought up again.

Have heard crap like this for the past 50 years and your kind has always been proven wrong. Exact same garbage was said about women and marathons, when will you fools learn!?

 

[thrust]

After seeing the epic Nadal/Thiem match yesterday in the heat and humidity, you realize the physical feat that a five set match can be. Women want, or get, equal money in tournaments. Why can't they play five sets?

I don't believe that they are incapable of it, some women are more conditioned than men. Seriously, what is the reason they only play two out of three? If you say that they would take up too much court time or that no one would want to watch a female five set match, then you're saying that women's tennis is not a priority, or a sufficient draw. And many would argue that is not so.

So why shouldn't they have the opportunity to put on the kind of display that Nadal and Thiem did? At least during the majors? They would more fully have equality this way.

God NO! But then, they should not get the same amount of prize money, either. Perhaps the men should only play two of three, with NO tiebreak in the third set.

 

[Ann]

LOL.

It's not *****' funny, be better than these clowns.

 

[Ann]

I think the issue with the majority of the males here is stupid fear. Don't let the women try because it might prove yet again that a trained woman athlete is physically superior to 99.9% of the schlubs that post here. Get over it.

 

[Ann]

cant imagine to watch another set of keys vs CsN.. would die of boredom, same for the people in the stands.. this is what you wanna?!

Basically what I say every time Sock picks up a racket. Should all men be judged by him?

 

[Benben245]

Women do not get paid the same as men in tennis; at some tournaments like the us open they do. When you buy a ticket for tennis you aren't buying for the individual match, you're buying for a session, so to the laymen it appears difficult to differentiate between sex as to who the customer is there to see (woukd like to compare TV Nielsen ratings). Having said that, if Serena isn't playing, just two random eastern bloc women and the men have say cilic and nishikori, odds are the fans didn't pay to watch petrovic, they paid to watch the best athletes in a sport slug it out. The parody in the women's game, anyone can beat anyone, has been exacerbated by the slowing of the courts. Physically, women are not the same as men and if they played best of 5 on these pro tv surfaces the parody would get even worse. I would love to see chris everet and the ITF propoganda machine justify how it's good for the sport when wta players out of the top 50 consistently beat those in the top ten; especially if they were to play Best of 5

 

[helixx]

Basically what I say every time Sock picks up a racket. Should all men be judged by him?

of course not.. just saying i dont wanna women play bo5.. why? just because guys cant get over that they get equal pay for “less work” as they like to say over and over? i am totally good with bo3 and i think most of the wta fans are..

 

[Deleted member 756486]

It's not *****' funny, be better than these clowns.

Sorry it’s just a running meme on the board. BeatlesFan and her hatred of women’s tennis.

Who’s on your ignore list?

Your sig does say I can ask..

 

[Ann]

Women do not get paid the same as men in tennis; at some tournaments like the us open they do. When you buy a ticket for tennis you aren't buying for the individual match, your buying for a session, so to the laymen it appears difficult to differentiate between sex as to who the customer is there to see (woukd like to compare TV Nielsen ratings). Having said that, if Serena isn't playing, just two random eastern bloc women and the men have say cilic and nishikori, odds are the fans didn't pay to watch petrovic, they paid to watch the best athletes in a sport slug it out. The parody in the women's game, anyone can beat anyone, has been exacerbated by the slowing of the courts. Physically, women are not the same as men and if they played best of 5 on these pro tv surfaces the parody would get even worse. I would love to see chris everet and the ITF propoganda machine justify how it's good for the sport when wta players out of the top 50 consistently beat those in the top ten; especially if they were to play Best of 5

It would be scary because the best women athletes, would be the best conditioned and they would become the top 20 - consistently. I think the issue is deep-down males don't want women's tennis to become a better game. People liking women's sports is such a nads shrinking concept.

 

[Ann]

Sorry it’s just a running meme on the board. BeatlesFan and her hatred of women’s tennis.

Who’s on your ignore list?

Your sig does say I can ask..

It's lengthy but undistinguished.

 

[Benben245]

It would be scary because the best women athletes, would be the best conditioned and they would become the top 20 - consistently. I think the issue is deep-down males don't want women's tennis to become a better game. People liking women's sports is such a nads shrinking concept.

Women's tennis was better when the courts were faster and the shot making extended beyond a baseline slug fest. (This is also an issue of coaching at the junior wta level but that's a different matter).

 

[Deleted member 735320]

Except many of us do want to see it. Males don't want to see it but they don't watch women's sports anyway.

If there is a demand for best of 5 womens matches the market will/should supply, provided the ladies are willing to play the longer matches. Given the fact that the WTA finals for a time offered such a match up and did away with it, I would assume the demand was not that great. Today is 2018 and this issue should be examined anew with current research data.

 

[Pmasterfunk]

Also, the longer a sports match is, the more likely it is that the better player will win. This is true no matter which sport or field is under discussion.

Is this supported by data? And I guess my follow up question would be what "better player" means, because I'd assume the longer a match goes, the more likely the fitter player wins.
I suppose it may be demonstrable that fitter players are objectively better.

 

[True Fanerer]

Have heard crap like this for the past 50 years and your kind has always been proven wrong. Exact same garbage was said about women and marathons, when will you fools learn!?

I see you didn't mention the thousands of serve breaks during that tongue lashing

 

[SaFINNISHikori]

Here is why they should:

• Women have actually tested to be comparatively better than men in many endurance activities.

Here is why they should not:

• Scheduling at grand slams would be a problem
• Too many uncompetitive WTA matches compared to ATP. If it's 6-2, 6-1, do I really need to see a third set to prove that the first two were not a fluke?
• WTA tennis has a smaller fan base and lower ratings than men's. From a pure business perspective, it makes sense to have more men's tennis than women's tennis on TV (speaking on average here, not about superstars like Serena)

 

[Ann]

I see you didn't mention the thousands of serve breaks during that tongue lashing

See you avoided the actual comment with a non sequitur not specific to just one gender.

 

[tennis_pro]

NO

I think they should play best-of-1 set instead or a golden point or something.

 

[Ann]

Here is why they should:

• Women have actually tested to be comparatively better than men in many endurance activities.

Here is why they should not:

• Scheduling at grand slams would be a problem
• Too many uncompetitive WTA matches compared to ATP. If it's 6-2, 6-1, do I really need to see a third set to prove that the first two were not a fluke?
• WTA tennis has a smaller fan base and lower ratings than men's. From a pure business perspective, it makes sense to have more men's tennis than women's tennis on TV (speaking on average here, not about superstars like Serena)

Good post but BO5 would actually improve women's tennis by forcing better conditioning and therefore a better game.

 

[helterskelter]

Is this supported by data? And I guess my follow up question would be what "better player" means, because I'd assume the longer a match goes, the more likely the fitter player wins.
I suppose it may be demonstrable that fitter players are objectively better.

It's a fact of probability, akin to that you're more likely to get roughly the same number of heads and tails if you flip many coins, whereas if you flip only a few, you could get more of one than the other, or that less good teams are more likely to win knockout cup competitions than round-robin league ones. The general principle is that the smaller the sample size, the more likely it is that the result will be determined by chance or random coincidence.

You're right that there can be countervailing circumstances, so there will be a few matchups where the generally less good player benefits from a longer match because of superior fitness. But they will be rare unless there is reason to believe that fitness is negatively correlated with skill. If we believe that the correlation between skill and fitness is random, then what I said will hold for the most part. If we believe that the correlation between skill and fitness is positive, then we'd have even more reason to think that superior players are more likely to win in long matches, but the reason wouldn't just be that random coincidence is more likely over a small sample size.

 

[True Fanerer]

See you avoided the actual comment with a non sequitur not specific to just one gender.

My feeling is that there are women who can do it. The ones that are in absolute tip top shape can go 5. Don't see the whole tour being ready for that. There's a reason it's BO3.

 

[Ann]

Guys, we get it most of you don't like women's tennis or women's sports for that matter so why do you care? No court availability is just a lame excuse. All of the slams have courts that aren't being used and if you listen to MichaelNadal most of the women will drop dead of exhaustion in the early stages of the 4th set, so it may even speed things up.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

After seeing the epic Nadal/Thiem match yesterday in the heat and humidity, you realize the physical feat that a five set match can be. Women want, or get, equal money in tournaments. Why can't they play five sets?

I don't believe that they are incapable of it, some women are more conditioned than men. Seriously, what is the reason they only play two out of three? If you say that they would take up too much court time or that no one would want to watch a female five set match, then you're saying that women's tennis is not a priority, or a sufficient draw. And many would argue that is not so.

So why shouldn't they have the opportunity to put on the kind of display that Nadal and Thiem did? At least during the majors? They would more fully have equality this way.

the question is, which performance brings in more money. not who works harder.
i'm gonna guess the equality made sense if the WTA were attractiing more paying clients (or tv views, etc...)

that said, the whole debate about serena being the "best tennis player of all time" vs. "best female player of all time" was joke,... because she'd probably struggle at the top men's college level.... even at B03

 

[Ann]

My feeling is that there are women who can do it. The ones that are in absolute tip top shape can go 5. Don't see the whole tour being ready for that. There's a reason it's BO3.

Then they'd have to start training more and getting ready for it. One of my issues with the WTA is that there are seeded players that look like their favorite words are "supersize me" but they have great skills so they can stay competitive. Even Serena came back out of shape (she admitted as much) and said she'd work herself back into shape on the court. Can you imagine a male player being able to do that? Have better conditioned athletes in the WTA and watch the tennis improve exponentially.

 

[helterskelter]

Here is why they should:

• Women have actually tested to be comparatively better than men in many endurance activities.

Here is why they should not:

• Scheduling at grand slams would be a problem
• Too many uncompetitive WTA matches compared to ATP. If it's 6-2, 6-1, do I really need to see a third set to prove that the first two were not a fluke?
• WTA tennis has a smaller fan base and lower ratings than men's. From a pure business perspective, it makes sense to have more men's tennis than women's tennis on TV (speaking on average here, not about superstars like Serena)

The first reason why not is not insurmountable. At Wimbledon, they can reduce men's doubles to best of three. At the other Slams, they can use more courts for longer. Or even build more courts.

It's not a universal truth that women's matches are uncompetitive compared to ATP. In many ways, the women's tour is more competitive than the men's right now. It hasn't had 15 years of domination by three to five players.

The popularity point is vexed, because it's quite likely to be a byproduct of life in an unequal society. Men's tennis is more popular because of social norms that suggest that men's sport in general is more worth watching. For example, many people think that men's tennis is always more competitive than women's tennis, even though it's not always true.

 

[True Fanerer]

Then they'd have to start training more and getting ready for it. One of my issues with the WTA is that there are seeded players that look like their favorite words are "supersize me" but they have great skills so they can stay competitive. Even Serena came back out of shape (she admitted as much) and said she'd work herself back into shape on the court. Can you imagine a male player being able to do that? Have better conditioned athletes in the WTA and watch the tennis improve exponentially.

The thing that scares me is let's say we have a 100+ women who can do it after all the conditioning/training. Women's tennis starts looking manly and I'm not so sure that will help it. Their frames will always be smaller and their height will never change. We will have little Energizer bunnies running everywhere for hours on end still lacking firepower to end matches. I like to see women who look like women out there. I don't want a 100 Schiavones.

 

[Ann]

The thing that scares me is let's say we have a 100+ women who can do it after all the conditioning/training. Women's tennis starts looking manly and I'm not so sure that will help it. Their frames will always be smaller and their height will never change. We will have little Energizer bunnies running everywhere for hours on end still lacking firepower to end matches. I like to see women who look like women out there. I don't want a 100 Schiavones.

Dude, do I even have to tell you that your fear that women won't be as attractive to you if they're better conditioned discredits anything and everything you would or could ever possibly say about women's sports today and in the future?

 

[BringBackSV]

After seeing the epic Nadal/Thiem match yesterday in the heat and humidity, you realize the physical feat that a five set match can be. Women want, or get, equal money in tournaments. Why can't they play five sets?

I don't believe that they are incapable of it, some women are more conditioned than men. Seriously, what is the reason they only play two out of three? If you say that they would take up too much court time or that no one would want to watch a female five set match, then you're saying that women's tennis is not a priority, or a sufficient draw. And many would argue that is not so.

So why shouldn't they have the opportunity to put on the kind of display that Nadal and Thiem did? At least during the majors? They would more fully have equality this way.

They shouldn't be getting equal pay and even more than that should not playing in best of 5 set matches.

 

[True Fanerer]

Dude, do I even have to tell you that your fear that women won't be as attractive to you if they're better conditioned discredits anything and everything you would or could ever possibly say about women's sports today and in the future?

Sure if you want to. It hasn't happened yet and you have no idea how it would look yourself. Your view is at best, hopeful.

 

[Ann]

They shouldn't be getting equal pay and even more than that should not playing in best of 5 set matches.

Spoken like a true Neanderthal Troglodyte. Bravo.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Thinking best-of-9 might be the thing.

You know... for applying the finnisher.

 

[BorgCash]

If they want equal pay they should make equal work - play 5 sets. But it will so boring to watch. It's already very boring.

 

[True Fanerer]

Thinking best-of-9 might be the thing.

You know... for applying the finnisher.

I'm thinking about taking my wife's last name now.

 

[Ann]

Sure if you want to. It hasn't happened yet and you have no idea how it would look yourself. Your view is at best, hopeful.

WTH? How did you get this from what I said. I'm stating that their attractiveness to you is *****' irrelevant. The same has been said forever by men that didn't want women to be athletes because in their opinion they were put on this planet only to serve them and not to get all sweaty and conditioned. The women flipped them the bird and went out and bought cleats anyway and guess what, people still found mates they were attracted to and the Earth continued to revolve around the sun. If women tennis players get better conditioned and some even develop a more muscular physique they are STILL going to look like women, maybe not the kind of woman you're attracted to but so what. They're in it to win it, not to be a poster on your ceiling...

BTW.. some women do become more muscular, some do not. I actually lifted weights for a time to try and look more buff, I ended up with elbow tendonitis and nothing else. It depends on their particular genetics.

 

[True Fanerer]

WTH? How did you get this from what I said. I'm stating that their attractiveness to you is *****' irrelevant. The same has been said forever by men that didn't want women to be athletes because in their opinion they were put on this planet only to serve them and not to get all sweaty and conditioned. The women flipped them the bird and went out and bought cleats anyway and guess what, people still found mates they were attracted to and the Earth continued to revolve around the sun. If women tennis players get better conditioned and some even develop a more muscular physique they are STILL going to look like women, maybe not the kind of woman you're attracted to but so what. They're in it to win it, not to be a poster on your ceiling...

BTW.. some women do become more muscular, some do not. I actually lifted weights for a time to try and look more buff, I ended up with elbow tendonitis and nothing else. It depends on their particular genetics.

I like a woman who loves sports and has a competitive spirit. I'm glad that they put on the cleats or grabbed a racket etc. I use to watch WTA and I lost interest after about 2011-2012 or so. Serena totally took over and the others usually don't have a chance. It just doesn't seem possible for women as a whole to be on that on that type of physical level. I enjoyed watching Graff, Hingis ,Henin, Clijsters, and many others. None of those were beauty Queens ya know. They were still women at the end of the day and a joy to watch at what they do. They did it well. I don't see why women feel the need push the envelope and ruin something that use to be beautiful.

 

[Ann]

I don't see why women feel the need push the envelope and ruin something that use to be beautiful.

Because women are as competitive as men.

I won't give you any push back about what you find attractive and what you don't and have no issue with that AT ALL. My point is that many women don't give a damn if male x isn't attracted to them because male d and male f still will be or for that matter they play on a different team and couldn't care less about what flips any man's switch. You have to understand, women want what women want and the more competitive and committed are going to put that ahead of "beauty". There are some women that sacrifice almost everything for beauty, there are some that couldn't give a damn and most are in the middle.

You have every right to wish for something but you have no right to stand in a woman's way if your wishes are ignored.

Peace out fellow earthling.

 

[mbm0912]

WTA BO5 would be the 10th Circle of Hell

 

[Ann]

WTA BO5 would be the 10th Circle of Hell

Oh thank god, I didn't think I'd find anyone else to put on ignore.

 

[BringBackSV]

Spoken like a true Neanderthal Troglodyte. Bravo.

Getting equal money for lesser results is inane, which apparently passes for progressive thinking in your limited mind. If anybody is clamoring for a potential 4 hr plus match of womens tennis, I've yet to hear it but that's a hard pass for most.