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Deleted member 771911
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Slam finalists are ATGs?
So Thiem and Medvedev have no age advantage over Djokovic these days?If you care about it, do it yourself.
I don't. Look at Federer: he improved his h2h since 2014. He's the perfect example that young age is not an advantage.
yes they both improvedBut before 2014, Federer led every h2h stat against Djokovic.
You’re saying Federer improved in 2014, but Djokovic improved even more?
LOL
Most wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:
How would Roddick or Hewitt go from 4/5 slam finals to 10 slam finals without Federer?This is a skewed statistic I think since Federer was so good he prevented other players from becoming all time greats
1. Federer d. Roddick 2003 Wimb SFHow would Roddick or Hewitt go from 4/5 slam finals to 10 slam finals without Federer?
They're simply far from ATG level.
It's 9 and you don't even know if Roddick would have made it to the final.1. Federer d. Roddick 2003 Wimb SF
2. Federer d. Roddick 2007 AO SF
3. Federer d. Roddick 2007 UO QF (Roddick 5-1 career h2h vs Davydenko)
4. Federer d. Roddick 2009 AO SF
That's 4 more right there for Roddick. That's not counting 2003 AO where he was physically ruined in the SF after going 21-19 in the 5th of QF with El Aynaoui. Wrist and forearm.
Fed is overrated. 4.0 at best, closer to 3.5 I'd sayMost wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:
1) 1984 McEnroe 17
2) 1985 Lendl 16
3) 1970 Laver / 2015 Djokovic 15
5) 1987 Lendl 13
6) 1979 Borg 12 / 1989 Becker 12 / 1990 Edberg 12
9) 2011 Djokovic 12
10) 1971 Laver / 1986 Becker 11 / 1995 Agassi 11 / 2008 Nadal 11
14) 1969 Laver 10
15) 1970 Rosewall 9 / 1989 Edberg 9 / 1994 Sampras 9 / 2007 Nadal 9
19) 1980 Borg / 1987 Edberg / 1988 Becker / 1989 Lendl / 1995 Sampras / 2012 Djokovic / 2014 Djokovic 8
Federer's best season (7 wins in 2010) is at #26 place (EDITED) , tied with other seasons.
Ok Lew. Replace Fed with his previous round opponent then.It's 9 and you don't even know if Roddick would have made it to the final.
And this game can be done for all players.
What would Murray be without Djokovic? He could be in the Lendl/McEnroe tier. What would Ferrer be without Nadal? A clay ATG.
I think those would be embarassing draws.Ok Lew. Replace Fed with his previous round opponent then.
-2003 Wimby vs Schalkan (Roddick 5-1 h2h and defeated him 2004 Wimby)
-2007 AO vs Robredo (Roddick 11-0 h2h)
-2007 UO vs Lopez (Roddick 7-1 h2h)
-2009 AO vs Delpo (Delpo double bageled by Fed winning 3 games, taking Roddick)
6-16 overall vs top 10 in slams. 13/16 were to slam winners Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Hewitt, and Delpo. 50% of those losses were to Federer (8). 3 ATG GOAT contenders making 10/16 losses he had.I think those would be embarassing draws.
Roddick in his career had only 6 wins at Slams over top10s (#44 in the Open Era). Dominik Hrbaty beat more top10s than he did. Real ATG numbers
Why did he face so few top10s in his career?6-16 overall vs top 10 in slams. 13/16 were to slam winners Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Hewitt, and Delpo. 50% of those losses were to Federer (8).
Deeper field and more specialists.Why did he face so few top10s in his career?
He's only #43 in the Open Era in matches played against top10s.
Weak era.Deeper field and more specialists.
Funny that Federer prevented Roddick from being an ATG in the mind of people, but they omit how Djokodal prevented Murray, Thiem, Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych, Nishikori, etc. from being ATGs and multiple Slam champions..
Big3 have similar career but somehow only Federer stops players from becoming ATGs
Slam wins over top10s:Comparing Roddick to Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych and Nishikori?
Roddick was WORLD #1 and won 30+ titles.
Slam wins over top10s:
Tsonga 13
Berdych 11
Nishikori 9
Ferrer 8
Roddick 6
Because Roddick, Baghdatis, and Gravinboginagis aren't ATG's unfortunately.Most wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:
1) 1984 McEnroe 17
2) 1985 Lendl 16
3) 1970 Laver / 2015 Djokovic 15
5) 1987 Lendl 13
6) 1979 Borg 12 / 1989 Becker 12 / 1990 Edberg 12
9) 2011 Djokovic 12
10) 1971 Laver / 1986 Becker 11 / 1995 Agassi 11 / 2008 Nadal 11
14) 1969 Laver 10
15) 1970 Rosewall 9 / 1989 Edberg 9 / 1994 Sampras 9 / 2007 Nadal 9
19) 1980 Borg / 1987 Edberg / 1988 Becker / 1989 Lendl / 1991 Courier / 1995 Sampras / 2012 Djokovic / 2014 Djokovic 8
Federer's best season (7 wins in 2010) is at #27 place (EDITED) , tied with other seasons.
I think Roddick should be happy with the career and the competition he had and shouldn't deserve to be an ATG.So beating top10 players is more important than winning tournaments and becoming the best player in the world?
You've got a special coconut.
Weak era.
Most wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:
15) 2007 Nadal 9
Tsonga 33.3% (13-26)Slam wins over top10s:
Tsonga 13
Berdych 11
Nishikori 9
Ferrer 8
Roddick 6
Brother Louie, Louie, Louieoh Lewie, Lewie, Lewie.
How can it be weak era when there were so many matches between ATGs?
I would be embarassed to contradict myself so often and probably would have performed a harakiri in an attempt to clean up my reputation.
So beating top10 players is more important than winning tournaments and becoming the best player in the world?
You've got a special coconut.
I'm not the one who is calling Tsonga and Ferrer ATGs.TTW classic.
a player who reached #1 and won GS is a mug, while Tsonga and Ferrer are great competitors.
I think Roddick should be happy with the career and the competition he had and shouldn't deserve to be an ATG.
TTW classic.
a player who reached #1 and won GS is a mug, while Tsonga and Ferrer are great competitors.
Ok let's write off Murray (who is an ATG for me, anyway):
2011 Djokovic 10
2015 Djokovic 9
2008 Nadal 8
2007 Nadal 7
2013 Nadal 7
Del Potro, not less than 30 and no more than 40, both in another era and without injuries.Tsonga and Ferrer would have won 10+ slams in any other era
Delbonis, Brands, Stak, Robredo, Bennetau etc.2013 Nadal had 4 wins against a Federer that was losing to the likes of ... I don't even remember their names .....
Ultimately the stat that you are presenting is basically the H2H stats among the Big 3.
It's subjective. To me he is.Since when is Murray an ATG?
I'm not the one who is calling Tsonga and Ferrer ATGs.
It's subjective. To me he is.
Finals won vs players better than Roddick/Hewitt:
2004-09 Federer 7
2011-16 Djokovic 34
Do you prefer if I put it this way?
It's subjective. To me he is.
Finals won vs players better than Roddick/Hewitt:
2004-09 Federer 7
2011-16 Djokovic 34
Do you prefer if I put it this way?
Tsonga and Ferrer would have won 10+ slams in any other era
Not to mention, Roddick's 2004 and 2009 Wimb finals are better performances than any matches those guys had.So beating top10 players is more important than winning tournaments and becoming the best player in the world?
You've got a special coconut.
Rosewall was 35 in 1970. Most of the ATG he defeated were about 5-10 years younger.let me guess, he played 129 matches vs ATGs that were at least 6 years older than he is?
could you for example expand:
Becker age in 1986 and the age of the ATGs he defeated in 1986?
Becker age in 1989 and the age of the ATGs he defeated in 1989?
Nadal age in 2007 and the age of the ATGs he defeated in 2007?
you know, just asking for a friend
Takeaway: Rod Laver, who won the Open Era CYGS at the ripe old age of 31, followed up this performance by beating 15 ATG players at age 32. He then followed up that year by beating 11 ATG players at the age of 33.
Laver is the only one at age 30+ to rack up 10+ wins against an ATG in the same season. And he pulled this off twice. And those two seasons were immediately after he won the Open Era CYGS.
I think that this is the best case that anyone has built for Laver being the 2nd best player ever(MuryGOAT is #1 by the reflexive property). The irony here is that Lew built this case accidentally by trying to trash Federer for the 1,000,000th time.
Folks, Sir Lew just accidentally discovered penicillin.
Rosewall was 35 in 1970. Most of the ATG he defeated were about 5-10 years younger.
Only slam he won over a relative ATG was over Newcombe in 1970. And I say relative because Newcombe "only" had 5 slams, so it's up for debate whether he was an ATG.Rosewall was 35 in 1970. Most of the ATG he defeated were about 5-10 years younger.
Slam finalists are ATGs?