It's time to kill the Match Time Out (MTO) . . . or to overhaul it completely.

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
Today's Wimbledon third round match between Jelena Ostapenko vs. Ajla Tomljanovic was just the latest example of a player abusing the MTO rule. The main difference is that Tomljanovic called out her opponent in front of the crowd and the umpire for obviously lying and faking an injury. As Tomljanovic was about to serve after breaking for a 4-0 lead in the deciding set, Ostapenko walked to her chair and asked the umpire for the trainer. She insisted that she couldn't continue due to an abdominal pull and could not wait until the next changeover. In the few points before her asking for the trainer, Ostapenko showed absolutely no visible signs of discomfort. None. She had lost six games on the bounce.

Immediately, Tomljanovic voiced her objection. "You know she's lying, right? We all know." She refused to sit down, even after the physio arrived to assess Ostapenko and umpire Fiona Edwards granted the three-minute MTO for off-court treatment. A supervisor was called at Tomljanovic's request, and the exchange continued. Almost 12 minutes after the last point had been played, the match continued. The MTO clock on the score board had run out. Umpire Edwards called "time" only after Ostapenko arrived back on court. Tomljanovic was immediately broken, but still managed to win the match in the end. For the final four games of the match, Ostapenko showed ZERO signs of an injury.

I think it's ridiculous (and impossible) that umpires are put into the position to have to assess the truthfulness of a player's assertion that he/she is actually injured. But it is clear that many players have used the MTO as a way to break up their opponent's rhythm, to regroup physically or emotionally, to stall, etc. Before the rules were changed, being injured during play fell under the banner of "loss of condition." Players either continued playing the match or retired. I think we should go back to the old system.

MTOs have become a joke. We've laughed about them for years, and most of us can accurately predict when one will be called. But it's more than that. It makes a mockery of our sport when we make stupid rules, refuse to enforce rules, or do not make changes when we clearly see rules being abused. It's a simple solution to end MTO abuse. Kill the MTO completely. That won't happen. The governing bodies are too weak. So here's an alternative: A trainer can only be called when you are about to serve.

1. If a trainer is called, the player is given a point penalty. So merely asking for the trainer gives the fit player a reward for having to put up with a delay because of his/her opponent's loss of condition. This should also begin to deter any fake calls for the physio.
2. If the trainer recommends treatment, the player can opt out. But if the player decides to take the three-minute MTO, that's a game penalty. There's an automatic game penalty any time a player takes the option to take a MTO or leaves the court (for a MTO or a bathroom break). Again, a reward for the player who has to suffer through the delay.
3. Any other delay or request for treatment results in a immediate default.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Today's Wimbledon third round match between Jelena Ostapenko vs. Ajla Tomljanovic was just the latest example of a player abusing the MTO rule. The main difference is that Tomljanovic called out her opponent in front of the crowd and the umpire for obviously lying and faking an injury. As Tomljanovic was about to serve after breaking for a 4-0 lead in the deciding set, Ostapenko walked to her chair and asked the umpire for the trainer. She insisted that she couldn't continue due to an abdominal pull and could not wait until the next changeover. In the few points before her asking for the trainer, Ostapenko showed absolutely no visible signs of discomfort. None. She had lost six games on the bounce.

Immediately, Tomljanovic voiced her objection. "You know she's lying, right? We all know." She refused to sit down, even after the physio arrived to assess Ostapenko and umpire Fiona Edwards granted the three-minute MTO for off-court treatment. A supervisor was called at Tomljanovic's request, and the exchange continued. Almost 12 minutes after the last point had been played, the match continued. The MTO clock on the score board had run out. Umpire Edwards called "time" only after Ostapenko arrived back on court. Tomljanovic was immediately broken, but still managed to win the match in the end. For the final four games of the match, Ostapenko showed ZERO signs of an injury.

I think it's ridiculous (and impossible) that umpires are put into the position to have to assess the truthfulness of a player's assertion that he/she is actually injured. But it is clear that many players have used the MTO as a way to break up their opponent's rhythm, to regroup physically or emotionally, to stall, etc. Before the rules were changed, being injured during play fell under the banner of "loss of condition." Players either continued playing the match or retired. I think we should go back to the old system.

MTOs have become a joke. We've laughed about them for years, and most of us can accurately predict when one will be called. But it's more than that. It makes a mockery of our sport when we make stupid rules, refuse to enforce rules, or do not make changes when we clearly see rules being abused. It's a simple solution to end MTO abuse. Kill the MTO completely. That won't happen. The governing bodies are too weak. So here's an alternative: A trainer can only be called when you are about to serve.

1. If a trainer is called, the player is given a point penalty. So merely asking for the trainer gives the fit player a reward for having to put up with a delay because of his/her opponent's loss of condition. This should also begin to deter any fake calls for the physio.
2. If the trainer recommends treatment, the player can opt out. But if the player decides to take the three-minute MTO, that's a game penalty. There's an automatic game penalty any time a player takes the option to take a MTO or leaves the court (for a MTO or a bathroom break). Again, a reward for the player who has to suffer through the delay.
3. Any other delay or request for treatment results in a immediate default.
It's ridiculous that it's been allowed to continue as long as it has. I really hope something is done about it, but I'm not holding my breath for it
 

SonnyT

Legend
MTO obviously is necessary, because players do get injured. If it's there, many, if not most, players are going to abuse it, some of the time. (There's a saying in American sports, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying.')

If you're a player, I suggest you learn how to handle it to your own advantage. After all, you're a professional, and you expect things like this to come up. It's not like Tomjanovic promise never to use such a tactic herself when it suits her purpose.

MTO is part of the game, so learn how to handle it, instead of come crying to mama! What if your opponent was indeed genuinely injured, would she fall apart like that too?
 
Last edited:

jmnk

Hall of Fame
The _only_ thing that needs changing is to take out 'M' out of MTO. Make it a Time Out, a player can take it anytime between games, make it like one per set, and be done with it. If you use it for non-medical stuff and later you do get injured - too bad. Virtually any sport has a time out, tennis should be no different.

Of course everybody uses it as a momentum break. so?
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
MTO isn't going to go away entirely in a non-team sport where there aren't players on the bench who can substitute. I propose this compromise: a MTO can only be an extension of the usual changeover between every second game. If you have an injury early in the 4th game of the set, too bad. You'll just have to do the best you can that game and the next, and take an extended timeout after the 5th game. If you want to forfeit the 4th and 5th game and go immediately to a timeout, you can do that. This would eliminate any opportunity to deprive the non-injured player of his momentum
 
MTO's do serve a useful purpose, if the player TRULY needs treatment the MTO may be able to salvage the match from being cancelled and the fans disappointed. The MTO also allows fans to stretch, use the loo, and purchase Pimm's and Strawberries & Cream thereby increasing revenues. Maybe players could be given a Fan Appreciation Intermission time out once a match.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Cue Spencer Gore ... on the decline of the West. Never heard any similar sports-saying where I grew up. In fact, the tennis commentators regularly moralise against such a notion.

MTO obviously is necessary, because players do get injured. If it's there, many, if not most, players are going to abuse it, some of the time. (There's a saying in American sports, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying.')
 

PMChambers

Hall of Fame
MTO's do serve a useful purpose, if the player TRULY needs treatment the MTO may be able to salvage the match from being cancelled and the fans disappointed. The MTO also allows fans to stretch, use the loo, and purchase Pimm's and Strawberries & Cream thereby increasing revenues. Maybe players could be given a Fan Appreciation Intermission time out once a match.
MTO shouldn't disadvantage the fit player.
MTO are for fans, not players.
Toilet breaks are a necessity, they should allow one a match between change of ends. Men get an extra at the end of the 4th set. But can't take another afterwards.
MTO do need looking into. Maybe during the MTO the other player gets time with coach and can hit balls to keep warm. Give the crowd something to watch. Something to counter MTO benefit.
 

bnjkn

Professional
MTO obviously is necessary, because players do get injured. If it's there, many, if not most, players are going to abuse it, some of the time. (There's a saying in American sports, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying.')

If you're a player, I suggest you learn how to handle it to your own advantage. After all, you're a professional, and you expect things like this to come up. It's not like Tomjanovic promise never to use such a tactic herself when it suits her purpose.

MTO is part of the game, so learn how to handle it, instead of come crying to mama! What if your opponent was indeed genuinely injured, would she fall apart like that too?
This. Next thread.
 
I would do the following: every player gets a 3 minute time out he can use however he wants.

That means the player is allowed to use it tactically to throw a hot opponent off his rhythm but he does that at his own risk, I. E if he has wasted his time out and then does get hurt he doesn't get another time out and has to forfeit the match if he can't continue.

That way there are no discussions
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Medical time outs are pointless. If you are seriously injured then the physio can't help you. If you're not seriously injured then you don't need the physio.

Replace “medical time outs” with “healthcare” and "physio" with "doctor" and it sounds like a GOP talking point.
 
Last edited:

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Medical time outs are pointless. If you are seriously injured then the physio can't help you. If you're not seriously injured then you don't need the physio.

I don't know. Do you think those medics helped Eriksen at all?
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
MTO shouldn't disadvantage the fit player.
MTO are for fans, not players.
Toilet breaks are a necessity, they should allow one a match between change of ends. Men get an extra at the end of the 4th set. But can't take another afterwards.
MTO do need looking into. Maybe during the MTO the other player gets time with coach and can hit balls to keep warm. Give the crowd something to watch. Something to counter MTO benefit.

:unsure:

Non-MTO player should get complimentary Uber Eats and up to 45 minutes to enjoy the food once it arrives. With a nice table setting laid out on-court.

But no toilet breaks. If you think it might be an issue bring a porta-potty.


 
Last edited:

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
I would do the following: every player gets a 3 minute time out he can use however he wants.

That means the player is allowed to use it tactically to throw a hot opponent off his rhythm but he does that at his own risk, I. E if he has wasted his time out and then does get hurt he doesn't get another time out and has to forfeit the match if he can't continue.

That way there are no discussions

Arguably makes worse both issues. It doesn’t help if you’ve used it up and then suffer an actual injury and it encourages using time-outs for strategic purposes which is what many object to with the current MTO rule.

My Uber Eats suggestion discourages fake MTOs because you think you’re changing the momentum but you may have to wait a long time yourself while your opponent has a bite. Of course, if you‘re really injured than you‘ll probably take it anyway.

Musetti did the honorable thing. No injury. But he needed a break. So he left. :whistle:
 
Last edited:

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
if she can’t play the sport based on the rules of the sport as it stands today she should find something else to do. Who knows, she may be gone by Monday

ATs point was the rules were not being applied correctly because chunky wasn’t injured she was tired and/or trying to break ATs momentum, neither of which is a basis for a MTO.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Her point was the rules were not being applied correctly because chunky wasn’t injured she was tired and/or trying to break ATs momentum, neither of which is a basis for a MTO.
A player doesn’t decide an MTO. A player can only request one and it‘s up to the trainer/physiotherapist to decide if it’s appropriate. Dealing with momentum changes is part of the sport. She should focus on improving her concentration if she can be thrown off so easily.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
But no toilet breaks. If you think it might be an issue bring a porta-potty.

Have never ever had to take a toilet break during a match. What is going on with Shapo?
:unsure:

Shapo had to literally 'hold on' to beat Jannik Sinner in a thrilling Australian Open win over the Italian on Tuesday, having been left fuming after he was denied a request to take a bathroom break before the deciding fifth set.

"What happens if I go?" Canadian Shapovalov asked German umpire Nico Helwerth at Margaret Court Arena.

"Do I get a fine? I don't care!
"What do you mean I can't go? Are you going to disqualify me? I have to pee!

"I'm going to **** my pants! I'm going to **** in a bottle! You guys are not allowing players to ****? I don't understand this rule!"


Players are allowed two bathroom breaks per five-set match at the tournament, with the breaks permitted only between sets.
Shapovalov, the No. 11 seed, later told reporters that he was "blowing off steam."

"Also I do think it's a dumb rule, especially for me," he said.

"I've got the smallest bladder ever. I've literally got to take a **** every set, so it's difficult when you're on the court for so long.

"Before the match I'm trying to hydrate as much as possible... of course it wasn't the umpire's fault.

"I think we should be able to take more breaks and go to the washroom because we... could be on the court for more than three-four hours."
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
A player doesn’t decide an MTO. A player can only request one and it‘s up to the trainer/physiotherapist to decide if it’s appropriate. Dealing with momentum changes is part of the sport. She should focus on improving her concentration if she can be thrown off so easily.

You make it like we have Dr. Raul sitting in the chair for every match who would be qualified to call out a player and stop the game in its tracks but we don’t. Once the laborious process of calling out the trainer begins the game playing has commenced. Del possum is a master at it.

Dealing with “natural“ momentum changes is part of the sport. Dealing with momentum changes arising out of abusing the MTO rule should not be but the rule has been stretched way beyond it’s original purpose.
 
Last edited:

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Have never ever had to take a toilet break during a match...

I’m not surprised. I know when you go into surgery you‘ll complete the task without leaving the patient on the table while you run off to the loo. (y)
 
Last edited:

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
You make it like we have Dr. Raul sitting in the chair for every match who would be qualified to call out a player and stop the game in its tracks but we don’t. Once the laborious process of calling out the trainer begins the game playing has commenced. Del possum is a master at it.

Dealing with “natural“ momentum changes is part of the sport. Dealing with momentum changes arising out of abusing the MTO rule should not be but the rule has been stretched way beyond it’s original purpose.
The rules are clear. I see here several options to change them and maybe in the future they will in fact be changed. But right now the players have to understand the rules as they exist, not as they wish they were. And there is no role for the opposing player in an MTO. There is a properly sanctioned professional who gets to decide. If a player can’t deal with the impact from an MTO maybe they should find something else to do.

as a general rule I find that winners win and losers like to come up with excuses. The good news is that this time the complainer did not lose
 
  • Like
Reactions: NAS

norcal

Legend
lol watch the handshake at the end of the match.
Ajla totally ignores her then finally goes to shake Jelena's had.
Jelena: You think I'm faking? Ask the trainer!
Ajla, dripping with sarcasm: Well I hope you feel better.
Jelena as Ajla's walking away: You are a disgrace!
Ajla: You are one to talk.
Crowd: oooooooo, burn

Commentator said Ajla invited Jelena to talk it over more in the locker room! :-D
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Today's Wimbledon third round match between Jelena Ostapenko vs. Ajla Tomljanovic was just the latest example of a player abusing the MTO rule. The main difference is that Tomljanovic called out her opponent in front of the crowd and the umpire for obviously lying and faking an injury. As Tomljanovic was about to serve after breaking for a 4-0 lead in the deciding set, Ostapenko walked to her chair and asked the umpire for the trainer. She insisted that she couldn't continue due to an abdominal pull and could not wait until the next changeover. In the few points before her asking for the trainer, Ostapenko showed absolutely no visible signs of discomfort. None. She had lost six games on the bounce.

Immediately, Tomljanovic voiced her objection. "You know she's lying, right? We all know." She refused to sit down, even after the physio arrived to assess Ostapenko and umpire Fiona Edwards granted the three-minute MTO for off-court treatment. A supervisor was called at Tomljanovic's request, and the exchange continued. Almost 12 minutes after the last point had been played, the match continued. The MTO clock on the score board had run out. Umpire Edwards called "time" only after Ostapenko arrived back on court. Tomljanovic was immediately broken, but still managed to win the match in the end. For the final four games of the match, Ostapenko showed ZERO signs of an injury.

I think it's ridiculous (and impossible) that umpires are put into the position to have to assess the truthfulness of a player's assertion that he/she is actually injured. But it is clear that many players have used the MTO as a way to break up their opponent's rhythm, to regroup physically or emotionally, to stall, etc. Before the rules were changed, being injured during play fell under the banner of "loss of condition." Players either continued playing the match or retired. I think we should go back to the old system.

MTOs have become a joke. We've laughed about them for years, and most of us can accurately predict when one will be called. But it's more than that. It makes a mockery of our sport when we make stupid rules, refuse to enforce rules, or do not make changes when we clearly see rules being abused. It's a simple solution to end MTO abuse. Kill the MTO completely. That won't happen. The governing bodies are too weak. So here's an alternative: A trainer can only be called when you are about to serve.

1. If a trainer is called, the player is given a point penalty. So merely asking for the trainer gives the fit player a reward for having to put up with a delay because of his/her opponent's loss of condition. This should also begin to deter any fake calls for the physio.
2. If the trainer recommends treatment, the player can opt out. But if the player decides to take the three-minute MTO, that's a game penalty. There's an automatic game penalty any time a player takes the option to take a MTO or leaves the court (for a MTO or a bathroom break). Again, a reward for the player who has to suffer through the delay.
3. Any other delay or request for treatment results in a immediate default.
I am leaning toward NO TREATMENT. If you're not fit to play, you default. No grey area, no massages, no miracle supplements, fight or flight. The sport is disneyfied enough as it is.
 

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
A player doesn’t decide an MTO. A player can only request one and it‘s up to the trainer/physiotherapist to decide if it’s appropriate. Dealing with momentum changes is part of the sport. She should focus on improving her concentration if she can be thrown off so easily.
Short of having an mri scanner on each court a trainer will be using a subjective assessment to establish a player’s injury.

“Does this hurt?
Yes”

so it is the player who makes the decision if they need treatment, and therefore it is the player who pretends in order to break another player’s momentum.

Scan Ostapenko at her expense after the match and if there is no tear, fine her all her prize money x 2.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Short of having an mri scanner on each court a trainer will be using a subjective assessment to establish a player’s injury.

“Does this hurt?
Yes”

so it is the player who makes the decision if they need treatment, and therefore it is the player who pretends in order to break another player’s momentum.

Scan Ostapenko at her expense after the match and if there is no tear, fine her all her prize money x 2.

This was similar to an older suggestion of mine (the issue comes up in TTW rotation) that players should have to pay out-of-pocket and on the spot in cash the local rates for a medical examination which would (especially in the US) discourage fake MTOs but your idea may be better. If the subsequent scan does not support the alleged injury than the player forfeits all the players prize money (x 2 ? you're not playing :giggle:) but I would add the money goes to the non-MTO player after deducting the cost of the medical expenses.
 

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
This was similar to an older suggestion of mine (the issue comes up in TTW rotation) that players should have to pay out-of-pocket and on the spot in cash the local rates for a medical examination which would (especially in the US strongly) discourage fake MTOs but your idea may be better. If the subsequent scan does not support the alleged injury than the player forfeits all the players prize money but I would add the money goes to the non-MTO player after deducting the cost of the medical expenses.
And if the MTO works and the “injured “ player wins, then the loser gets put through instead.
 
I can see many benefits of retaining the MTO. It absolutely should stay. The game has never been more physical, and tennis is obviously an entertainment product where the show must go on wherever possible. The only drawback of the innovation is the potential for players to request it as a gamesmanship tactic when they don't actually require medical attention of any kind (a practice that is much rarer than people make out it is).

If you want to minimise the MTO as a potential gamesmanship tactic, a deterrent could be introduced. A player can request a MTO but they have to forfeit something significant like a game or multi-point penalty. It would be the easiest way to find out whether someone is trying to find an unnatural advantage or if they are in genuine need of an MTO and can't keep playing without the intervention.

There are some pretty serious issues with such a stringent approach as listed above, and for me it would be better if the MTO stayed as it is. Opposition players who are ahead in the match and healthy should spend less time worrying about an injured opponent or gamesmanship and focus on their side of the court.
 

Arak

Legend
I have said it many times before. Give the players compulsory ten minute breaks between sets and no MTOs. And put cameras in the toilets.
 

Whisper

Semi-Pro
It’s a tough one because players do have legit injuries and a bit of physio etc allows the match to continue. I think the rule should stay it’s only allowed once per match. If you need more than 1 then too bad you’re not fit and can default. Perhaps as a compromise for the fitter player they can see their coach/team while the other player is off court.
 
Top