Who is better at their worst slam: Fed at RG or Nadal at AO?
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G.O.A.T.
In your dreams.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Federer's legacy will be crushed completely by Novak and Nadal by the time all 3 are retired.
He will look like a connors kind of guy holding some longevity records (that are a result of sticking around for too long) and nothing else.
Next generation of kids won't drool over Fed.... our gen will be the last.
He will look like a connors kind of guy holding some longevity records (that are a result of sticking around for too long) and nothing else.
Next generation of kids won't drool over Fed.... our gen will be the last.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
No, it shouldn't be because they're not tied.
Spencer Gore
Legend
Obviously Nadal at AO. His performances in the finals and victories over Federer are decisive.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
depends on what we proceeding from, potentially without nadal and djo fed would have one more title than nadal, on the other hand nadal' level of epicness overall is better than what fed had, depends
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Nadal better everywhere than Fed is at RG => Fed WOAT.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Federer is so poor at RG that he could not even earn a french open title on his own.
Needed Soderling to do the dirty work
Soderling goated and took out Nadal, something which Federer can never do on clay.
This itself makes Federer the worst of the Big 3 on the worst surface
Among the GOAT candidates only Sampras on clay is a bigger loser than Federer on clay.
Needed Soderling to do the dirty work
Soderling goated and took out Nadal, something which Federer can never do on clay.
This itself makes Federer the worst of the Big 3 on the worst surface
Among the GOAT candidates only Sampras on clay is a bigger loser than Federer on clay.
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I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Fedr
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Clayovic and Clayerer are similar peak level, Clayovic wins due to longevity.
Borg on HC?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Y'all's Federer hate in here is weird.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Federer is so poor at RG that he could not even earn a french open title on his own.
Needed Soderling to do the dirty work
Soderling goated and took over Nadal, something which Federer can never do on clay.
This itself makes Federer the worst of the Big 3 on the worst surface
Among the GOAT candidates only Sampras on clay is a bigger loser than Federer on clay.
LOLOL. Djokovic couldn't even beat Stan (forget prime Nadal) at RG. Fed beat prime delpo in RG 2009. This apart from Djoko losing RG 2011 semi to fed.
Djoko had to work with a weak dream draw in RG 16 with Murray collapsing in the final after set1.
Also Murray had to take out Stan for him in RG 2016
Fed at RG > djoko at prime to prime.
Cope with it, copeland.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Fed peak to peak better than both Nadal and Djoko.
11 slams in 4 years, 5 consuective at Wim/USO have to do with longevity? biggest streak on grass, biggest stream on HC, 23 slam semis in a row?
Only hopelesssly delusionally clueless fellows (hint, hint) will say stuff like you do.
Luckovic is just the ultimate vulture of the weakest field in open era (2015-current)
Nadal of course 2nd biggest vulture in this period.
I had put you on ignore, but happened to see reply of someone else to you. Congratulations on having reached a new level of c*****
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Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Novak has beaten Nadal 2 times on Clay in best of 5
Novak has a much more accomplished resume on clay than Federer in best of 3
Borg on HCs yes, he was the worst on it like sampras on clay .... true.
RS
Bionic Poster
Federer RG 11 SF vs Djokovic RG 13 SF?Federer is so poor at RG that he could not even earn a french open title on his own.
Needed Soderling to do the dirty work
Soderling goated and took over Nadal, something which Federer can never do on clay.
This itself makes Federer the worst of the Big 3 on the worst surface
Among the GOAT candidates only Sampras on clay is a bigger loser than Federer on clay.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Federer has a 40% win % vs top 10 ranked opponents at RG while Novak has 52 %
Only Sampras with 33.33% at RG is a worse than Federer on Clay.
Vs top 5 ranked opponents ..... Federer's win% drops to 33% while Djokovic is still on 43.75%
Only Sampras with 0% is worse than Federer on Clay.
Cope with this Mr @abmk
That peak of Federer happened because of a sweet spot created by nature due to no ATGs born for 15 years except Federer.
1970 - Agassi
1971- Sampras
1981 - Federer
1986 - Nadal
1987 - Djokovic
Federer's 04-07 is actually a direct result of this, Federer too a lot of time to mature and wasn't talented early on like Hewitt/Safin or else he could have completed made a mockery of Tennis from 01-07 itself ...... When his rivals grew up in 07-08 Federer's invincibility was over finally
You put on ignore because you tried to brainwash me and you failed
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Performance on Clay
Djokovic = 2 RG + 5 Rome (prestigious) + 3 Madrid + 2 Monte Carlo
Federer = 1 RG (Thank you Soderling) + 0 Rome (prestigious) + 3 Madrid + 0 Monte Carlo
Djokovic = 2 RG + 5 Rome (prestigious) + 3 Madrid + 2 Monte Carlo
Federer = 1 RG (Thank you Soderling) + 0 Rome (prestigious) + 3 Madrid + 0 Monte Carlo
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
If Hafa wins they'll turn on him as well, just watch. Asterisks, question marks, crying, etc.
In the words of the Pope, "Y'all need Jesus".
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
We all do! Lol
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
That's tennis for you.How to hit over 100 winners and how to win more points and still lose
Rules should change, one single tie break, first to win 100 points
aman92
Legend
But only because clay field was slightly weak before 2009... Federer's level wasn't that impressive in 2007-08..whereas Nadal has had to content with both Fedovic peaking at different times during his AO career. If I look at peak level and closeness to a 2nd title, Nadal wins hands down
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Aww ... now clay field being weak argument comes up?
Nadal's 13 french opens can be reduced to masters level then
aman92
Legend
Mate you have a split personality or something? Just a few posts above you were arguing that fed was weaker at RG?Aww ... now clay field being weak argument comes up?
Nadal's 13 french opens can be reduced to masters level then
Also yes clay field was slightly weak before Djokovic and till 2008 before Djokovic and others started competing.. Doesn't mean Nadal still wouldn't have won those RGs
NonP
Legend
Dre still owns the 1st and 3rd highest AO GW%s of the OE (or the top 2 among champs only). And he's got 4 trophies to Rafa's 1. What makes you think Bull would best Mr. Hairpiece at the beginning of the year when the latter doesn't rely nearly as much on momentum?
And Pete was dealing with the emotional fallout from his coach's brain cancer (hence the famous crying incident vs. Courier) and an injury sustained in match, but he still had his chances vs. Dre in '95 (best form, GW% be damned) and '00 (most clutch). Again don't be fooled by his pre-SF results Down Under. Swinging Pistol > Raging Bull on any HC, though again it'd be close.
Obviously there's some oversimplification, but I still think 4 makes sense in most cases. Let's run 'em down one by one:
- Borg/Nadal - Duh!
- Lendl - Just too steady - the only one not named Borg or Nadal to notch a 65+% CC season, and two of 'em to boot - and he's got enough weapons of his own to fall back on. 4 sounds about right, though we could see an occasional 5-setter.
- Kuerten - He's the one dirtballer who can out-Federer Federer. OTOH he yields to Fed or almost every other dirtballing great in consistency, so the Q is whether he would bring/sustain his A game often/long enough. I say yes, because the two are likely to face each other in the SF/F and that's where Guga usually shines. If he keeps up his intensity a la the '04 shocker or his demolition of career-best Ferrero in the '01 SF 4 is the best that be expected of even TMF.
- Wilander - Almost as steady as Ivan, but it's not unwise to bet against him vs. Fred... provided that he sticks to his default grinding. But we know what a chameleon he is, hence my usual "game plan" qualifier. I suspect he'd show up those of us who keep underrating him, yes including Fed, though a tight 4-setter or a 5-fer seems likely.
- Bruguera - '93 Sergi was on a mission and I honestly don't see anyone but 78/80 Borg or 08/17 Nadal beating him at RG that year. '94 would be more doable, but I'd still back the Spaniard who averaged a career-high 63.3% for the season, including a sensational 46.4% in RGW.
- Courier - '92 Jim is another one who topped the 65% ceiling if we focus on the CC season proper, which coupled with his historic 67.5% at RG gives him the decisive edge. The '93 version is more beatable and I might even favor Fed with his '11 SF serving (Jim doesn't handle big serves as well as Sergi, as you know), but for the entire series? Doubtful, though here I can see an average 5-setter.
- Djokovic - I do think this matchup would be quite close, but I can't agree that Fed would win the H2H. More like 50-50, and of course Novak would have the edge vs. the rest of the field.
Borg's average GW% at the 1978-81 USOs is 60.1% while Fed never topped 60% at RG except in '05 with 61.1%, and that's despite dealing with the likes of Mac, Jimbo, Tanner, Gerulaitis and Noah on a surface less conducive to statistical dominance. I keep pointing this out but when it comes to surface versatility Ice-Borg is the OE King.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Federer's clay feats do look pretty weak.
But I find it unethical that Nadal fans are trying to make clay in 00s look weak, your boy was stretched to 5 sets to the ultimate limit by Coria, you think clay was weak ?
Soderling spanked your boy in a way nobody has been able to do even in 2010s
What weak clay are you talking about ???
If Clay was weak in 00s then clay was been weak for 20 years and Nadal has been vulturing in the absence of guys who could stretch him.
aman92
Legend
Was weak relative to last 5 years....if prime Federer had to contend with Prime Thiem as well on clay, I doubt he would be reaching as many finals
Well that can't be an arguement in favour of rafa. Federer lost only to Nadal,Djokovic at his peak but Nadal has lost to so many others during his peak at AO.
2011 Federer would have spanked prime thiem in straight sets if they would have met.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Whats so special about that loser named thiem for Federer to not reach many finals ???
What has he even done ? ?
That loser is 7 years younger to Rafa and hasn't been able to beat him, you think he can do anything to Federer who even beat Novak at the french in 2011 ???
Are you serious ???
Thiem is NOTHING ..... his presence or absence means nothing ..... Just forget him.
aman92
Legend
Soderling? Kuerten?
For Nadal let's look at his results post his peak in 2009
2009 - Won
2010 - Injured against Murray
2011 - okay will give that, he lost to Ferrers fair and square
2012 - lost to Peakovic in 5
2013 - DNP
2014 - lost to Stan in final after getting injured
So apart from 2011, don't think he had a bad loss at AO. And even post prime he has managed to reach 2 finals whereas Federer couldn't post 30.
Federer is so weak that he spanked prime peakovic in 2011 RG SFs. Who owned Nadal even on clay that seasonFederer is so poor at RG that he could not even earn a french open title on his own.
Needed Soderling to do the dirty work
Soderling goated and took out Nadal, something which Federer can never do on clay.
This itself makes Federer the worst of the Big 3 on the worst surface
Among the GOAT candidates only Sampras on clay is a bigger loser than Federer on clay.
aman92
Legend
Thiem has beaten Novak twice at RG.. A peak Thiem on clay would definitely challenge Fed
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Thiem enjoys all sorts of age gaps to the big 3 and you want me to praise him ?
He is a loser and a nobody, he beating Djokovic doesn't means sh*t ..... he isn't even in the league of these guys on clay.
Peak Fed and Peak Nole would straight set thiem
aman92
Legend
No they wouldn't.. His game is tailored made to succeed on clay. That's just someone who hasn't seen him play live talking purely on recent form
Soderling beat peak Nadal. Kuerten is a multiple FO champ.
Losing to ferrer and getting bageled by berdych. Getting straight setted in 2019 finals.
Rafas AO resume has many surprising losses.
Prime Federer only lost to Nadal and soderling on clay. Federers consistency At FO is better than Nadal at AO.
abmk
Bionic Poster
2010 - was losing to Murray even before injury (ending stages of 2nd set)
2011 - got injured in like 3rd game of the match vs ferrer
2014 - was down a set and a break vs Stan before he got injured. This is the same Stan who took out 3-time defending champ Djoko at his prime. So don't under-rate him.
ironically you seem to have missed injury that affected him from start and a match he'd have won more likely than not (AO 11 QF s ferrer) and exaggerated in the matches there's damn good chance he'd have lost anyway (AO 10 QF, AO 14 F)
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The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
aman92
Legend
Lol that 2015 Rafa was his worst version.. Far from prime level
2011 Ferrer is bad but no way you are seeing peak Federer losing to grandad Kuerten in the first round can be legislated
To me the difference maker is the simple fact that if you lift Nadal out of history Federer is near enough guaranteed 4 more Roland Garros titles (with an outside shot at... 6 more
Nadal's Australia career is defined by way too many what if's, by absence and injury, and too many outclassings by too many people. You can say a lot of these losses - Thiem, Tsitsipas, came when he's old as dirt, but Federer in 2019, after years away from Roland Garros, still took nothing less than Nadal to bring him down.
Take away Djoker and Nadal has 2012 and 2019 for sure at AO. He also wins Wimbledon and the U.S. in 2011, Wimbledon in 2018, and the FO last year, at a minimum.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer more consistent, Nadal higher peak. The consistency differential is bigger than the peak differential. Still, depends on what you value more.
2004 fed on clay wasn't peak one. Kuerten was 29 and had a clay legacy behind him.
In that sense what were Nadals results in AO from 2006-8.
Or will you say he only had a shorter peak at AO from 2009-14.
At 38 year old Federer made it to FO semis can Nadal make the semis at AO in 2024.
Lets see.
aman92
Legend
You are telling me he couldn't come back against Murray after the 1st set
2014 - his back was gone late in the 1st set.. Was barely moving in sets 2 and 3
aman92
Legend
Nadal's hard court peak started in 2009 onwards..
abmk
Bionic Poster
Murray AO 10: closing stages of set 2. he was likely going to lose that set, making it 0-2.
Stan 14: nope, he was moving just fine till after going down a break in set 2. Stan put together a stunning return game to break him at start of set 2. nadal was moving just fine in that game and serving normally.
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