Why is Britain so bad at Tennis?

Mainad

Bionic Poster
@Mainad - what are those round black things on the plate? Not bangers, but... What?

Those are black puddings, a kind of spicy sausage made fom clotted pigs' blood. Delicious (although not to everyone's taste). :cool:

 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
A full English breakfast is even more cholesterol-dangerous than a typical American breakfast.

English breakfast:

full-english-7355w-2-1024x683.webp


American breakfast:

l-intro-1684257093.jpg


@MichaelNadal Denny's grand slam!
Britain is the GOAT of breakfasts too and arguably main dinner with the roast dinner + fish and chips offering.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
I think this thread is a very good topic ( we need more threads like this) and I’m sure Britain’s Tennis LTA would like to get some answers as well.
One answer that some would say is that the amount of top 100 tennis players could be just a cyclical thing, just like the Swedish dominance in the 80’s.
I think one of the factors that has contributed to the state of UK tennis was the moving away from grass courts world wide and the technical and strategical challenges this posed the UK and Australia as well. While Australian and UK tennis systems were still teaching methods that worked in the 60’s, even as late as 1999. The Europeans meanwhile were heavily into bio mechanics and sports science and their methods fitted much better with the slower clay and hard courts.
While England still does very well in cycling events, Rugby Union and Soccer in many other things there has been a decline and without being too controversial, the focus on the right things is not there as it was in the past. Even with English popular music there is less prominent successful talent than the 1970’s through to the 1990’s.
I think there needs to be a renaissance in a lot of things at present.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Also don't forget the breakfast pasty. The fastest way to melt your lips off when the beans run out of it after the first bite because you forgot you asked the clerk to nuke it for you before they bagged it.

Proper-English-Breakfast-Pasty.jpg

Man, I am starting to miss a Rudy's BBQ breakfast.

OK, I admit, sometimes I really miss Texas...

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Chris0701

New User
Quite simply because tennis is too expensive for most and the lack of facilities and structure. My daughter was ranked number 1 in the UK when she was 9 (she's now 11), and we had to quit as tennis was simply becoming too expensive and we were given absolutely no support. Then there's lack of indoor facilities, half of the year is then too wet/cold (we used to live in Scotland and with the lack of indoor facilities and even with proper warm-ups she used to tear hamstrings etc).
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
I’d disagree here, we have absolutely dominated the last 3 Olympic Games considering our size. We have only finished behind the US or China each time overall, with world class cycling, rowing etc as well as the swimming like you say.

I think the National Lottery money goes towards our sport or something like that. It must be the coaching which is letting down the tennis… we’ve always been good at “sitting down” sports, but we also had some of the best cricket teams in the world until recently too and are really good at stuff like squash, so it’s not like Brits suck at hand eye coordination (sadly I certainly do, but anyway)

I hope for more of the same in Paris next year, but I have a bad feeling about it.
All our once in a generation rowing and cycling talents are now retired. In the pool our best bet is that mixed relay team plus some of the women, can't trust Peaty to keep winning the breaststroke
On squash you're right though - about time it became an Olympic sport. Will see where we are in 2028

Someone had a better way of phrasing what I said in this thread - that tennis is largely considered a social sport. Must be the coaching
Even Muzziah did a bunch of his training overseas
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Those are black puddings, a kind of spicy sausage made fom clotted pigs' blood. Delicious (although not to everyone's taste). :cool:


A great spread, but not recommended on a daily basis
 

Wurm

Professional
So since Tennis is relatively popular in the UK and the UK is a wealthy country, why don’t they build more Tennis indoor facilities?

The UK has a lot of wealth, the UK's population as a whole is not even remotely wealthy.

The LTA seems to be pretty wealthy too but I don't know how much, if any, of that wealth finds its way to tennis clubs up and down the country.
 
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chrischris

G.O.A.T.
The UK has a lot of wealth, the UK's population as a whole is not even remotely wealthy.

The LTA seems to be pretty wealthy too but I don't know how much, if any, of that wealth finds its way to tennis clubs up and down the country.

Anyway, there's loads of tennis clubs around but they're in established locations where the idea of even fashioning cover for the courts would likely be too expensive and/or wouldn't get past the planning stage due to resistance from locals. The only indoor courts that might get built are by councils, who probably can't afford it or don't think it's worth it, or by David Lloyd Leisure who're basically gyms that happen to have indoor tennis facilities (David Lloyd himself long since sold the business) and tend to cost anywhere up to 10x more per year than just playing at a club, with no way of opting out of paying for gym facilities you don't want.
Sucks for those that are rich in talent and work hard.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Are the breakfast pastries and breakfast rolls commonly eaten in the UK.for breakfast? I haven't been to England since 2017, but I never saw them.

Americans are also big on French toast (with syrup) for breakfast.

o.jpg
 

ojo rojo

Legend
Are the breakfast pastries and breakfast rolls commonly eaten in the UK.for breakfast? I haven't been to England since 2017, but I never saw them.

Americans are also big on French toast (with syrup) for breakfast.

o.jpg
Here is the undoctored reality of the 'breakfast pastries' that the majority of people eat in the UK:
wpid 20121130 160425
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Football reigns supreme in the UK.

And the weather sucks for tennis.

True but beware a thread entitled "Why is Britain so bad at football?" :cool:

As for the weather it's not too bad in the summer and we can't keep using that as an excuse. Sweden produced a whole host of tennis superstars in the 80s and 90s and they don't exactly enjoy a Mediterranean climate!
 
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Zardoz7/12

Hall of Fame
I think there's a Class issue over tennis in Britain, like Polo it's a sport for the posh, well to do types who drink tea with tea cups say posh words like "one would" ect ect.
tenor.gif


Tennis needs to be as accessible as Football is to the British public, maybe more should be done to promote it.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I think there's a Class issue over tennis in Britain, like Polo it's a sport for the posh, well to do types who drink tea with tea cups say posh words like "one would" ect ect.
tenor.gif


Tennis needs to be as accessible as Football is to the British public, maybe more should be to promote it.

Come on, do you see Andy Murray or Jack Draper or Dan Evans or Kyle Edmund talking like that? Tim Henman was always the "posh" boy of tennis but even he talks and acts normally!

I've followed tennis for most of my life and I drink my tea out of a mug (albeit it's green tea of course). :cool:
 

ojo rojo

Legend
OK, I never went into a Greggs, but saw them around. It doesn't like very appetizing, but what do I know.
It isn't. But they're everywhere in the UK and very inexpensive. You can get your locally sourced free-range artisanal rare-breed pork pie next door but it's gonna cost you a week's worth of Greggs
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
It isn't. But they're everywhere in the UK and very inexpensive. You can get your locally sourced free-range artisanal rare-breed pork pie next door but it's gonna cost you a week's worth of Greggs
So Greggs is like Little Chef used to be back in the day?
 

SonnyT

Legend
If you look at the US, the two states producing the most tennis players are California and Florida, two warm places. So I'm not surprised Spain, Italy and France produce more players. Plus Britain is most of the time wet.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
It isn't. But they're everywhere in the UK and very inexpensive. You can get your locally sourced free-range artisanal rare-breed pork pie next door but it's gonna cost you a week's worth of Greggs

Greggs is one of the best bakeries around. That pic you showed did not do their pastries justice at all!
 

Bertie B

Hall of Fame
It's a Zombie society. They lost that war! The second one, both actually.

Since they came out on the winning side, no changes needed to be made and life/business can go on as it always had.

Losers reflect, losers go back to the drawing board. Britain did not lose! This is why the British are uncompetitive today.
 
Up until the 1990s, the LTA were very stubborn with their junior programs. They were very insular and wouldn’t look to how other countries were doing it. They just kept doing the same old things without results.
They also didn’t send their juniors to compete as often in European competitions. That meant they didn’t get to see the top juniors of the world and how they trained and carried themselves. They didn’t see how focused these kids were. Something that British juniors were notorious for was having much less focus and discipline.
I’ve heard it’s changed though in recent times and the U.K. is much more involved in the international junior scene and training regimes.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Maybe just like the US, Britain got complacent about their past history and stopped investing in infrastructure, stopped trying to be a leader in science and their youth got pampered/soft while other less developed countries hungrier for growth started becoming more competitive by investing more in infrastructure, spending more on science research as a % of GDP and their youth are more motivated to succeed in life. It is a classic case of what happens when powerful empires or big companies start declining due to hubris. This comment is not just about tennis, but life in general as I see that from doing business in more than 50 countries for the last three decades.

In the tennis context, many smaller countries in Europe have set up better national coaching centers to coach their juniors, believed more in a holistic approach of diet/physical training/sports psychology/stats analysis in addition to coaching technique to develop their juniors, have juniors play on clay which is an unforgiving surface if you have weaknesses in your game compared to the grass/hard court dominance, more diffuse coaching infrastructure you see in the old tennis powers like the US and the UK.
 
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Wurm

Professional
Maybe just like the US, Britain got complacent about their past history and stopped investing in infrastructure, stopped trying to be a leader in science and their youth got pampered/soft while other less developed countries hungrier for growth started becoming more competitive by investing more in infrastructure, spending more on science research as a % of GDP and their youth are more motivated to succeed in life.

The UK is very different to the US. Completely different culture.

The American Dream is all built on an individual succeeding and something that's to be celebrated.

Success in Britain might be someone stepping out of their class lane, triggering the "who does he think he is?" effect. It's lessened considerably since the days of David Beckham's sending off, that made a lot of people very happy to have a legitimate reason to have a go at him instead of just crab bucketing, but still, it's still floating around in British society and the people running the current government are exactly the kind of inbred upper class c*nts who're appalled by the idea of social mobility and really don't think poor people should have the time to play sport when cheap manufacturing is happening in China that could be happening in Britain - 12 year olds with no prospects should already be in the workhouses making a profit for the aristocracy, wot wot, old mucker! Those people don't want to see money invested in sport that could and should be in their own bank accounts (preferably overseas where they don't have to pay tax that might make the poor people in their own country that they want to exploit have slightly less miserable lives... by the way, these people love "patriotism" because it means poor people doing things against their own interests... it's incredible that that **** still works but apparently it does).

Anyway, the infrastructure for sports such as football*, in particular, and rugby is good even though engagement with those two sports fairly consistently splits along cultural lines. There's lottery money that's been well used to invest in sports that feature at the Olympics but it's rarely waved around at well established sports. Tennis seems to be caught in between because Wimbledon is huge but tennis, in general, isn't (though Murray's success seems to have had a positive impact on youth engagement and coaching on the basis of how much the standard of league tennis has risen in the last 4 years).

The infrastructure for tennis is mixed. There are loads of well established clubs around, almost all on all weather surfaces now, but it's not like the LTA invests much, if anything, into them as far as I'm aware. To get indoor facilities, which Britain absolutely needs given its unreliable weather, you need money invested to build facilities - that's simply not coming out of local council coffers for municipal indoor courts and the only business doing it is David Lloyd Leisure and if you want to compete for a court at one of those you have to be a paid up member, which might cost you 10x more per year than just joining a local club because you have to pay through the nose for gym facilities you might never use, nor ever want to use.

What probably should happen is some sort of investment into overhead cover for the courts somehow, without limiting how high a ball can go too much, but that needs money that the local clubs probably don't have (I dunno about more affluent areas of the country but they have to look for outside investment to raise funds for a new clubhouse in my area...) and even if they have it the chances of getting it through planning permission without an outcry from the local NIMBYs is essentially zero. Hell, even getting an indoor centre built anywhere new will have locals losing their **** as it'll probably be on land they can't possibly countenance not being a field.

* as for British (well, English) football... there was a cultural identity problem that came along with Dave Bassett up and under football that morphed into the Allardyce/Pulis "pragmatic" football that dovetailed with clubs having the money to keep their pitches in good order and being able to pass the ball along the ground successfully became a thing, so whilst Barcelona was readying the carousel the so called "golden generation" of players was full of Roy Of The Rovers "heros" that either tried to pull off Hollywood moments with the ball or ran away from it lest they get stuck with nowhere to go and no-one to pass to because players from rival teams didn't want to help them out. Things have improved on that score significantly over the last 5-10 years.
 

ojo rojo

Legend
So Greggs is like Little Chef used to be back in the day?
I'd say it's more like the Subway business model - bake your own products, fill with the cheapest available ingredients, undercut all competitors and open a branch in every street. Sit back and watch the fattening
 
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