Federer game is more complete than Djokovic

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Court should be compared to her era players and Federer should be compared with Djokovic. Its Fedfans obsession for slams. Nole always was having success in each level, slams , masters everywhere.
Laughable. You bought up the 30 slams, to imply that most slam titles = most complete player. :-D

The fact that Djokovic is a baseliner and play only one style behind the baseline. You can't be the most complete player if you are not expose to different type of playing environment
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Laughable. You bought up the 30 slams, to imply that most slam titles = most complete player. :-D

The fact that Djokovic is a baseliner and play only one style behind the baseline. You can't be the most complete player if you are not expose to different type of playing environment
Laugh then. But don't cry behind the mask.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
You can't hold a standard using a single player. I mean Nadal is without the doubt the greatest clay courter of all time and Federer is the only player who had to face peak Nadal. No other ATG have to face peak Nadal on clay.
Djokovic also played Nadal at RG in 2006, 2007, and 2008, so this is frankly untrue.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic also played Nadal at RG in 2006, 2007, and 2008, so this is frankly untrue.
Yeah, but Nole at that time wasn't a slam material yet even if Nadal wasn't around. Peak Federer at that time could have won bunch of clay tournamants - RG, Rome, MC, Hamburg...without peak Nadal.

The key here is TIMING and Federer was very unlucky to face the best player to ever play on clay.

I mean is it fair to hold a standard against Lebron James because he lost to loaded GS team multiple times? Is he not a great winner because of his losing record? I don't think so, because competition matters and it directly dictate your success and failure.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
No you must be crying because 166 records of Federer are probably now in single digits. All important records are gone. Slams ATP finals Weeks at number 1.

According to ultimate tennis stats, Federer holds the most ATP records.

Your hate for Federer is getting way out of control
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
According to ultimate tennis stats, Federer holds the most ATP records.

Your hate for Federer is getting way out of control
Was it the same records that you used to have paraded saying Federer holds 166 records, or now some bs records are left? Don't worry everything will be taken from him.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Was it the same records that you used to have paraded saying Federer holds 166 records, or now some bs records are left? Don't worry everything will be taken from him.
That's 166 is only part of the his total records.

Ultimate Stats has Federer owns over 300 ATP records
 
Djokovic is by far the most complete player. He can adapt to any surface far better than Federer can.
Exactly. Fed couldn’t win all the big tournaments. Novak adapted to any surface and conditions and won all the big events multiple times. Fed didn’t even get them all once.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Peak vs. Peak on a stroke to stroke comparsison it all goes to Fed except the backhand.
Early on the FH, serve and touch/volleys were miles ahead of Djoker. But Djoker has really improved and weaponized those strokes.

Where Djoker has always led was court coverage/speed, consistentcy/patience/mental strength and the backhand.

Feds anticipation and court sense were probably above Djoker for a while, but Djoker has really elevated that now. He just plays percision tennis at an amazing level now.

So even though Peak Fed has most of the strokes, Djoker takes over with court coverage, patience, mental strength and strategy.
That's what gave Djoker the edge against Federer and why he still dominates now against younger faster opponents. He' efficient.

If Fed had slightly better court coverage and a little more patience, he probably would've turned the head to head against Djoker.
Federer was the Master of time.
He anticipated every play with astonishing ease.
:cool:
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I mean someone responds to you guys and you start attacking saying nothing to offer?.
Not attacking, but exposing your weak/biased posts and the rest of your flaw GOAT claim every day.

Keep coming, you can reach 1,000 posts in a matter of one week
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, but Nole at that time wasn't a slam material yet even if Nadal wasn't around. Peak Federer at that time could have won bunch of clay tournamants - RG, Rome, MC, Hamburg...without peak Nadal.

The key here is TIMING and Federer was very unlucky to face the best player to ever play on clay.

I mean is it fair to hold a standard against Lebron James because he lost to loaded GS team multiple times? Is he not a great winner because of his losing record? I don't think so, because competition matters and it directly dictate your success and failure.
12/40 in his 20s.
12/23 in his 30s.

Why don't they accept that competition does matter and determines the difficulty or not of winning important titles such as the Grand Slam?
:(:confused:
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Thiem better than Wawrinka !?!?! In what exactly?
In 2020.

Have your results for Thiem and Wawrinka in this time. Have you seen how hard he was hitting on backhand. Go look his match vs Nadal if just for fun.

Yes. Thiem is better than Wawrinka post 2018 maybe. He won IW was in RG final beating Nole.
 

thrust

Legend
Djokovic is the more complete baseliner, Fed the more complete player, IMO. Fed can just do more with the ball than Djokovic which to me signifies more completeness.
Yes, Federer had the more diversified game, but Novak owns most of the important records.
 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
In 2020.

Have your results for Thiem and Wawrinka in this time. Have you seen how hard he was hitting on backhand. Go look his match vs Nadal if just for fun.

Yes. Thiem is better than Wawrinka post 2018 maybe. He won IW was in RG final beating Nole.
Oh yeah, 2018-2020 Thiem is definitely better than Wawrinka, but overall it's the latter by far.
 
Calling it a lame-ass BH because Rafa punished it is comical. Whose one hander wasn't lame-ass in that case? 8-B
I was out of line here. I will hold my hands up lol.

Nah you guys are right that Feds BH was still very good and top tier. It just struggles against Djokodal at best but still held up well and against the rest was a big weapon.

I think the racquet change helped further for Feds BH and he probably wishes he changed sooner.
 
To be fair Fed did things better than Djokovic which is why Djokovic had a hard time with Fed even at his best.

Fed FH, serve were massive weapons and better than Djoker’s. Fed variety was impressive too and was a great at volleys and smashes. The slice was good too.

Djokovic actually improved a lot of these strokes to get them closer to Fed or on par in 1 or 2 areas, then added with great BH, return of serve, speed, movement, fitness and mental strength helped him turn tide and win close games.

I will admit though Fed was the hardest opponent consistently for Djokovic as a matchup off clay. Albeit Nadal and Wawrinka were very tough too at their best.
 
You could probably make a case for both being more complete the other not sure why this ruffled so many feathers
True point. I can see why some would say Fed is more complete.

He did hit every shot in book that djoko sometimes didn’t do or do as well. Djokovic was more solid though and really improved all facets to hardly have a weakness bar overlead lol. The BH for Fed isn’t as close to djoko BH as Djoko got his FH closer to Feds.

Fed better server and djoko better return of serve.

It’s pretty close which is why their rivalry was closest on all surfaces and very compelling to watch them battle it out.

The most competitive rivalry of big 3 on all surfaces.
 
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BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
Yeah, but Nole at that time wasn't a slam material yet even if Nadal wasn't around. Peak Federer at that time could have won bunch of clay tournamants - RG, Rome, MC, Hamburg...without peak Nadal.

The key here is TIMING and Federer was very unlucky to face the best player to ever play on clay.

I mean is it fair to hold a standard against Lebron James because he lost to loaded GS team multiple times? Is he not a great winner because of his losing record? I don't think so, because competition matters and it directly dictate your success and failure.

Djokovic could have won Roland Garros 2008, 2012, 2013 and 2014 without Nadal. And even in 2007 only Federer would have a bigger shot than him without Nadal. So saying only Federer faced prime Nadal and not Djokovic is nonsense (that's ignoring many other events like Hamburg 2008, Madrid 2009, Rome 2009, etc).
 

Pheasant

Legend
I think that Soderling said it best with the following: "To me, Roger has always been the toughest opponent. He mixes up his game, he makes you feel uncomfortable. Against Novak or Rafa, you feel like you can play better and win."

Of course, Rafa and Djoker spanked Soderling too. But Federer made him look stupid with his variety. Federer also made guys like Wawrinka look absolutely stupid as well(away from clay). So I think Fed was more complete. However, Djokovic is by far the best defender of all time. And an epic defense can neutralize a stellar offense, even one with as many tools as Fed had.

Federer reminds me of the those fancy MMA fighters that can kick, jump, throw haymakers with both hands, throw wicked upper cuts, and do just about everything while being incredibly entertaining. Djoker reminds me of Khabib, a guy that was a complete machine that looked impossible to beat. Khabib has to be in the GOAT conversation, even though I don't like his style as much as others. The dude won every single time. He retired with a perfect record. He doesn't have to use the excuse that he got screwed by the judges on points, disqualification, etc. He needs zero excuses period. His resume has zero blemishes. One could say that his wins weren't as dominant. That doesn't matter. The object of the game is to win and Khabib never lost a single match. Numbers don't lie for Khabib. And they don't lie for Djoker either.

I won't bother getting into the "whose peak was better" argument. Both players were incredibly dominant. I liked watching Fed a lot more. But when watching both at their best, they both seemed equally invincable; ableit for completely different reasons. Unfortunately, Djoker was better for longer. So he will go down in history as the better player of the two. I gave up on arguing Fed's case in 2021. That's fine. Tennis moves on. I saw Lendl overtake McEnroe, which sucked. And now, it's deja vu all over again with Djoker overtaking Fed.
 

skaj

Legend
I don't know, I've only seen Nadal really pepper it with regular success, haven't seen anyone else do it, including Djokovic.

So you were skipping those points? :-D

Nadal of course exploited it more than everyone probably, but Federer's backhand could not consistently last in longer rallies against good baseliners. Everyone knows that and practically everyone exploited it. If he had a more reliable backhand, he would have more slams than anyone now, the rest of his game is very solid at worst.
 

Razer

Legend
You can't hold a standard using a single player. I mean Nadal is without the doubt the greatest clay courter of all time and Federer is the only player who had to face peak Nadal. No other ATG have to face peak Nadal on clay.

So Djokovic who is of Nadal's age never faced peak Nadal but Federer who is 5 years old faced a teenager who was peak ?

Nobody will buy such funny logics.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
So Djokovic who is of Nadal's age never faced peak Nadal but Federer who is 5 years old faced a teenager who was peak ?

Nobody will buy such funny logics.
Exactly. 2005 Federer had great chance to beat BABY nadal but he even failed at that. Could have become youngest CGS winner.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Federer is more complete, but Djokovic has done more with less. The game changed and Federer changed too slowly.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
So Djokovic who is of Nadal's age never faced peak Nadal but Federer who is 5 years old faced a teenager who was peak ?

Nobody will buy such funny logics.
Absolutely. Nadal is an early bloomer and he was at his best on clay in 2005-2010. He set many incredible streaks including 81 consecutive match won on clay.

Djokovic beat injured, burned-out Nadal on clay in 2015 and 2021.

Everyone knows tennis will buy the truth
 

Razer

Legend
Absolutely. Nadal is an early bloomer and he was at his best on clay in 2005-2010. He set many incredible streaks including 81 consecutive match won on clay.

Djokovic beat injured, burned-out Nadal on clay in 2015 and 2021.

Everyone knows tennis will buy the truth

Doesnt matter if nadal bloomed early, a rookie is a rookie, you cannot be at your peak at 18-21, you are at your peak from 22 til 26, so for Nandal that would be 2008-2012
 

Arjuntino

Rookie
Djokovic is better at footwork
images
 
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