(2) Soderling vs (5) Verdasco- ATP Barcelona Final
- Thread starter djokovicgonzalez2010
- Start date
TheLoneWolf
Banned
If being destroyed in a big clay event by Rafa makes you a clown, then Roger should change his name to Fedo The Clown and start touring with Ripling Bros.
djokovicgonzalez2010
G.O.A.T.
And now.... Dr. Phil!!!
seffina
G.O.A.T.
Or those that love tennis above any individual player like myself. I'm just all that and a bag of chips. That makes me crave Grippos.
But really, Robin getting to the final was good for his first clay tourny this year. Can't wait for the Robin/Rafa quarter in Rome.
ruerooo
Legend
I think I might, a little. He's contributed to all the Copa Davis wins for a decade, he works hard, he said in his interview yesterday following his match with David that Soderling was going to be a very tough opponent but that he was playing in Spain and would do his best.
Herios
Rookie
seffina
G.O.A.T.
He did play much better (although I only saw highlights of the Monte Carlo final) and wish the final in MC had been more competitive. And despite me preferring a Robin win, the final's quality was not half bad. There were some really great shots and was an enjoyable watch.He played much better this week. (This is what I was just ranting about
TheLoneWolf
Banned
^^Probably one of the most hilarious comments ever. The GOAT and the best clay courter of all time (and his nemesis to boot) are still duking it out, but tennis is boring. LOL. You've lost all your credibility right there.
You just can't enjoy the game when someone you don't like wins. That makes you not a tennis fan, and your opinion as relevant as my dog's.
President
Legend
Verdasco has a mental block against Nadal, which is why he fares so badly against him. He is a very good player technically speaking, and a great athlete. There is no shame in a player like him winning a 500.
I'm dissapointed Soderling wasn't able to win today. I feel he is the better player overall, but Verdasco definitely deserved the win today. I think Soderling did well though for his first clay tourney. His movement has still not quite adjusted yet, but I'm hoping he peaks for RG. Vamos Toad!
TheLoneWolf
Banned
I know. I can't either. I've been convinced Robin is probably the worst matchup for Rafa (Rafa's Rafa if that makes sense.) It should be a dramatic match, if it happens.
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
I enjoy the game - but there really isn't much competition to beat Nadal or Federer. What I'm saying is that I would like to see some new, young talent who can really compete for the top spots. Now that Federer is aging and Nadal is soon past his prime, is there any exciting players out there who can generate a huge viewing audience? In the 1970's - if you go back that far - tennis was on t.v. every weekend, with McEnroe, Lendl, Borg, Connors as a few big, exciting names. I can have an opinion without being insulted. If you don't like or agree with my posts/opinions, just ignore them.
ruerooo
Legend
Oh, Atherton. :roll:
One of the reasons it was on a lot was because there were less channels.
(In the 70s, you say? Yes.)
Also, the primary networks were ABC, CBS, and NBC, and there were more prominent American players.
Do the math, now, and stop sulking.
(Besides, I thought you liked good-looking tennis men. The Spanish Copa Davis equipo is probably the best-looking in all of mens' tennis. Unless you favor the Americans.)
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
Exactly right Rueroo-the Americans, aside from Roddick, don't really have a young, popular player - not in the foreseeable future. Hopefully, they will get some top players in the next few years....and that will definitely boost the network coveraget too.
davey25
Banned
Federer has played Nadal 11 times on clay and only been destroyed to even remote degrees once, and it was an event he playing one of his worst grand slams ever and only made the final due to a joke draw (plus the joke mens clay court field of today) and Rafa was playing out of his mind- his best tennis ever. So your attempted point is beyond pointless.
TheLoneWolf
Banned
I can't agree. If you were around in the 70s you know that Borg at his peak in clay was about as good and dominating as Nadal.
Do you complain about this same thing everytime Fed wins another slam? If not, then you should revise your reasoning because it doesn't make sense.
Sorry if you were offended, I'll try to tone it down now.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
This thread has just gone unintentionally hilarious.
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
I enjoy the Fed/Nadal rivalry - but is it over now? I don't see the 2 of them facing off against one another too often anymore. I hope we continue to see them playing for a long time.
ruerooo
Legend
Well, why don't you give Andre's academy a call -- I'm sure they could use your help coaching.
Or maybe you could help Pete scout, since things are so abysmal and terrible.
:roll:
I can't stand it when people are so negative when there are wonderful things to enjoy. Rafa and Roger start another tournament tomorrow, and all some people can do is complain. Ridiculous.
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
Yes Lonewolf, I remember Borg on clay back in the 1970's and early '80's. He was every bit as good as Nadal on clay - and might have even been better. It is hard to judge the two players because they used to use wood rackets back then and the surfaces were made differently....so I really would not be able to say who is better clay courter due to the changes in the game over the years. Do you feel that way also?
TheLoneWolf
Banned
Does H2H count? Apparently not to you.
If Verdasco losing to Rafa (arguably the best clay courter of all time) in the final makes him a clown, what does losing to Verdasco quite convincingly in the Semi makes the #1 seed (Djokovic)? You think about that, pal.
Dgpsx7
Professional
I disagree. Rafa is superior on clay and just because he is so much better than the rest on that surface it should not reflect badly on men's tennis. Verdasco is not a clown. He may have had problems with choking in the past but he has shown a lot of improvement in that category this year. Even when he chokes he still provides good tennis for most of the tournaments he is in. Also hard courts are a surface where rafa and nando match up better and they are responsible for one of the best matches I have ever seen (AO 2009). Soderling is also not a fun person to play and Nando broke out of his old ways by being able to come back and win after losing the second set. With his performance in the last two weeks now is not the time to hate on Verdasco.
djokovicgonzalez2010
G.O.A.T.
TheLoneWolf
Banned
I think they are the 2 best clay courters of all time, yes. But, how were clay tournaments more competitive back then, when Borg was killing everyone in every clay tournament he showed up?
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
Rueroo - I enjoy tennis, the game is my favorite sport, unfortunately, it is not on t.v. as much as it used to be, and for me, aside from Nadal/Federer, I don't find the players very exciting - but the sport is wonderful....I just hope for some young, exciting players to make the game even more interesting to watch...
TheLoneWolf
Banned
Capitan Obvio, is that you?
davey25
Banned
You are an idiot. I was not talking about losing to Nadal on clay which of course there is no shame in, I am talking about such a pitiful tank job performance and getting only 1 game in a Masters final. And you actually to try and compare that to Federer who has taken a set off Nadal nearly everytime they played on clay and find any similarity, LOL! Federer is also the only one who has beaten Nadal on clay twice since he began his dominance on clay, his head to head with Nadal on clay is better than Verdasco's head to head vs Nadal on all surfaces combined, and his overall performance vs Nadal on clay is even far better than Verdasco vs Nadal on hard courts.
And yes Djokovic indeed sucks bigtime right now, I never disputed that. Hopefully he gets his act together since he is twice the player a clown like Verdasco is, and the mens game is far better off with Djokovic in these finals than Verdasco.
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djokovicgonzalez2010
G.O.A.T.
Losing 4-6 7-5 4-6 would've been fine.
But he played like world #170 in the final
But he played like world #170 in the final
davey25
Banned
Since Vilas, Ramirez, Orantes, Panatta, were all better clay courters than anyone today outside of Nadal and maybe Federer.
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
I was just saying that the comparison of Nadal/Borg is difficult to gage who is the better clay courter because of the evolving changes of the sport - namely, different equipment. Rackets were wood or sometimes aluminum back then. Borg was also good on grass - but clay was his best surface - and I know Borg dominated clay back then - but with the new rackets of today - it is a much different game. Players like Borg, McEnroe, etc...used to rely on finesse to win games - today it's the fastest, biggest serve, etc. who wins games.....
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
Guillermo Vilas was one of the best clay courters too - he was a little before Borg's time - but they both played matches together too in Vilas's later career.
ruerooo
Legend
I really don't understand why people seem to be struggling so hard with this concept. :???:
TheLoneWolf
Banned
Maybe Nadal destroyed Verdasco because he was just too good for him. Nadal gave Fed 6-0 and 6-1 sets in FO 2008 too. I guess Fed tanked back then, huh?
The fact that you called me an idiot is a nice touch of irony. I assume you didn't watch AO2009's semifinal between Verdasco and Nadal. If you did, you would have a little more respect for the man instead of running your hater mouth and spouting moronic comments like that.
ruerooo
Legend
TheLoneWolf
Banned
They were very good clay courters. But very inferior to the dominant clay courter of the time (Borg.) The same way Nadal is superior in clay to anyone today, and has been for a long time. Vilas might have been superior to other clay courters today except for Rafa, but for the rest? Ferrero is actually not too shoddy himself. He's had the huge misfortune of having a career laden with injuries, and being contemporary to Nadal.
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rovex
Legend
You really are an idiot. Go spew some more hatred will you?
davey25
Banned
LOL you dont gain universal respect as a great player by just one great tournament (which still doesnt end with the trophy). Verdasco played out of his mind at the 2009 Australian Open, by far the best tournament of his career. That is not reflective of his usual standard of tennis or caliber of player he is whatsoever. I could judge Baghdatis by just his play at the 2006 Australian Open, which was arguably even better than Verdasco in 2009, or Bartoli's play at Wimbledon 2007, or Johansson by his play at the 2002 Australian Open. Sorry one tournament does not a great player make.
angiebaby
Semi-Pro
Based on what?
I would understand if Soderling had defeated Rafa on numerous occasions and if Rafa struggled against him all the time. That isn't the case though.
TheLoneWolf
Banned
Nadal is good on grass also. It's too bad he lives at the same time as the (arguably by some) GOAT in grass.
The equipment was different for every player back then, and it is different for every player right now. You can't unfortunately pitch Borg against Nadal for that reason. You can just look at their performance relative to everyone else in their eras. Nadal also has to deal with the (again arguably by some) GOAT. And he has done so quite well might I add.
TheLoneWolf
Banned
His physical attributes (height) and his game. I'm not saying he's superior to Rafa, just that he's a threat to him. If I were Rafa I'd actually play Fed than Soderling in clay right now.Based on what?
I would understand if Soderling had defeated Rafa on numerous occasions and if Rafa struggled against him all the time. That isn't the case though.
davey25
Banned
Ferrero had injuries and illness and early 2004 and has never been even close to the same calibre of clay courter since. That has nothing to do with Nadal as he has a hard time beating many guys on clay in the last 6 years, and his French Open results are poor every year without ever playing Nadal. If Ferrero and Coria were still at their best, Nadal would still be dominant, but the overall clay court field would be much improved. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The guys I mentioned were all bonafide top quality clay court specialists which dont even exist today. The best clay court specialists after Nadal are guys like Robredo and Almagro, who are not contenders.
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
Agree with you on your last post Lonewolf. I think Nadal is probably the best #2 player in tennis history - unfortunately, he played in the same era as Federer.
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
Hmmm... so maybe all this hate from you on Verdasco, which seems to be mostly about his recent final against Nadal (not even one tournament, but one match), is misplaced?
Verdasco has 4 top 10 wins this year now, and has played pretty well most of the time this year except for that MC final.
TheLoneWolf
Banned
Yes, he was a great clay courter too. As a matter of fact, before Rafa got his 81 match streak on clay record, Villa held that record (I think it was 76 consecutive matches or so) on clay.
Atherton2003
Hall of Fame
I also thought Guga was a very good clay courter too.
davey25
Banned
Nadal not doing better apart from the rankings has little to do with Federer. He has never lost to Federer in a hard court slam, mainly since he hardly ever can reach him. On clay Federer is unable to victimize Nadal of anything other than Masters title at the less prestigious Hamburg and Madrid events once each. The only place other than the rankings Nadal has been a victim of Federer really is on grass at Wimbledon a bit and at the Tennis Masters Cup (though I doubt Nadal winning there either year he lost to Federer in the semis anyway). Well Fed did deny Nadal his elusive Miami crown in 2005 too.
angiebaby
Semi-Pro
Yeah but you're talking as if Rafa has never beaten Soderling before. He has and more than a few times. Don't know what their H2H is but I would imagine it's in Rafa's favour. So could Soderling really be a bad match up for Rafa?
Not saying Soderling isn't a good player who on his day could probably beat anybody but that's a far cry from saying he's Rafa's nemesis. The facts just don't support that theory.
TheLoneWolf
Banned
It sounds like Verdasco can't do anything to win your respect. You are talking of Verdasco's AO 2009 performance as if it had been a fluke, when he just played a Masters 1000 final, and when he won Barcelona not even 1 hour ago. You are the very definition of an unbalanced hater. Now go lament Verdasco's victory elsewhere and let the kid enjoy it.
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