Cristophe Rochus: Doping rampant, mentions Nadal and Soderling

President

Legend
Credit to MTF for this article



Is doping a reality in tennis ?
Of course it is a reality. I was already saying that more than ten years ago. It is a sport that is more and more physical, so there are inevitably more temptations to take enhanching performance drugs. Now, with the Armstrong issue, we are now admitting it’s not because someone has never been controlled positive that it means that person has never been doping. When one can afford good doctors, to make some personal researches on the subject, and to have some resources, it is possible to take undetectable drugs products. So in my opinion, anti-doping controls are useless and they really don’t prove anything. Regarding Nadal, those rumors are rumors even if everyone wonders the same question : how can you be so strong in Roland Garros and one month later, you are apparently unable to play ? That’s why it looks so suspicious, but we have no proof. Maybe he is really injured.

We have to admit all these breaks, such as Nadal and some others, are really intriguing…
That’s the purpose ! It should not be obvious ! Everyone makes sure it is not clear. The less you lie, the less you give explanations, better it is ! Let’s take Robin Soderling. He has won Bastad in 2011, and ever since that, he has not played tennis. Apparently he is really sick (officially he has mononucleosis) when I am certain he was unbeatable back then. We can’t deny how much it sounds dubious. He was at the peak of his career, and the day after, he suddenly says he can’t play tennis anymore… I really think it’s unbelievable.

What about the federations ? Are they implicated or not?
It is all part of the rumors. We think “Oh wait, it is weird.” There are plenty of strange things happening, and we have the feeling the best players have nothing. It’s like everywhere, there are always people you can buy ! I guess someone like Armstrong might have the resources and the knowledge to pay someone to know how to avoid getting caught. It’s a certain thing : with money, everything is affordable ! Now, there is always a way to slip through the net. That’s the way it works because everyone has a benefit to take from it : the federations, the athletes…

How did you deal, as a tennisplayer, with these issues to keep practising your sport and to make it your job ?
When I entered the top 100, I said in the medias that it was a scandal to see all these doped players, and I received a letter from the ATP threatening me “This is the last time you ever talk about this. You have no proof, you have nothing”. Finally, all players I’ve mentioned got controlled positive. All Argentineans. Rather than all this hypocrisy, I think it would be better to legalize the doping. When I say that, I hear I can’t say that because it’s not a good thing and it’s dangerous anyway. But after speaking with the doctors, we are not even sure these products are dangerous for our health. At that moment, each one, in all honesty, is ready to take the risk or is not. My brother and I have always been clean. We could have taken growth hormones, but we never did it. We thought it was not worthy. Maybe we should have…. Maybe we would have never been caught up… Maybe my brother would be 17 centimenters (6.69 inches) taller and he would have been in the top 10… Everyone has to make choices. Do we really want to be in the worldwide top at all cost or are we content to be just a very good athlete, it’s all personal?

That being said, how can we put an end to all this ? We have the feeling all these doping stories will never end…
It will never end for one reason : sports are entertainment and we always want more. If, after ten stages in the Tour de France, the cyclists are racing at 25km/h (15.53 mph) because they are exhausted, it won’t be alright. If after a five setter which lasted for five hours in the semi-finals, the player says he can’t even get up so he can’t take part in the final, then the entertainment is over. It will never end. Too much money, too much entertainment at stakes. But as a spectator, I don’t mind watching these athletes, even if I know they are doped. For me, Armstrong still remains a great champion… doped or not ! Same for the others. They fought, the efforts are still there…

http://www.rue89.com/rue89-sport/20...-est-une-realite-pourquoi-ne-pas-le-legaliser


Very interesting stuff
 
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bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I don't doubt that doping happens. In fact, I bet it happens way more than we'd like to imagine. But, other than the players who were actually caught, it's all rank speculation as to who has doped and when, which never leads to any productive discussion.
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
Like the UCI, I think it would be completely unacceptable to ban players from a sport in silence. Now if you have a temporary suspension to wait for confirmation of results, that's entirely different, but if there truly are positive doping cases in tennis, imo everything should be done to make sure this becomes clear and becomes a serious issue.

I also think that we should not go the way of a more and more physical sport.
 
History repeats itself. This is exactly how it was in cycling. In the beginning no one believed or wanted to believe it. Specially not the ardent fangirls. But smart guys like Rochus and me, we see through the clouds. Nadal is probably the main culprit. Sod mentioning surprised me a bit though.
 
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joeri888

G.O.A.T.
I don't doubt that doping happens. In fact, I bet it happens way more than we'd like to imagine. But, other than the players who were actually caught, it's all rank speculation as to who has doped and when, which never leads to any productive discussion.

This. And this is why all the testing and stuff should be increased BIG TIME. However, there's no incentive for the ATP or ITF to test more, because it costs money and catching players will cost them more money.
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
History repeats itself. This is exactly how it was in cycling. In the beginning no one believed or wanted to believe it. Specially not the ardent fangirls. But smart guys like Rochus and me, we see through the clouds. Nadal is probably the main culprit. Sod mention surprised me a bit though.

Don't be naive. Djokovic 2.0 was because of eating glutenfree? Federer found out 'what was necessary to become a grandslam champ' in 2002 when he started working with some unknown italian coach? You can make a case for any top player, and individuals should be held innocent until proven otherwise. However, that doping is a serious problem in all sports can not be and should not be neglected.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
History repeats itself. This is exactly how it was in cycling. In the beginning no one believed or wanted to believe it. Specially not the ardent fangirls. But smart guys like Rochus and me, we see through the clouds. Nadal is probably the main culprit. Sod mention surprised me a bit though.

I agree with the comparison to cycling. And, I'd agree that there are a lot of interested parties who want to stick their head in the sand. I do believe there is significant doping, but I don't have proof of any particular individuals, so where can the discussion go, other than me stating "I do believe there is doping."

As for Nadal, that would obviously be a huge story, but are people forgetting that he had legit injuries? This really could all be knee(s)-related.
 

The Bawss

Banned
Oh you have taken down the original interview. I translated the last paragraph anyway.

Dans cet entretien, Rochus, qui a quitté le haut niveau en 2010, défend une légalisation du dopage :

« Plutôt que toute cette hypocrisie, je pense qu’il vaut mieux légaliser le dopage. Quand je dis ça, je m’entends dire que je ne peux pas avoir de tels propos parce que c’est pas bien et le dopage c’est dangereux. Mais en discutant avec des médecins, on constate qu’on n’est même pas sûr que ces produits soient si dangereux pour la santé. A ce moment-là chacun, en son âme et conscience, dit “ moi, je prends le risque... moi, je ne le prends pas... ”. »

During this interview, Rochus, who quit high-level tennis in 2010, is a proponent of legalising doping:

"Instead of all this hypocrisy, I believe it would be better to legalise doping. When I say this, I tell myself that I cannot believe such things because doping is bad and it's dangerous. But after having spoken to doctors, one discovers that we are not even sure these substances and that detrimental to health. Given this information, it's would be up to each individual to decide whether it's worth it to take the risk.


Can't say I agree with him.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
History repeats itself. This is exactly how it was in cycling. In the beginning no one believed or wanted to believe it. Specially not the ardent fangirls. But smart guys like Rochus and me, we see through the clouds. Nadal is probably the main culprit. Sod mention surprised me a bit though.

Please...

Rochus basically includes every player taller than he and his brother in his conspiracies (which is nearly everyone including WTA players).

He also heavily insinuates Nole, but I see you ignored that...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I feel for the Rochus's brothers since they are undersize as a tennis player, yet they are clean while many bigger players are doping. Totally unfair to them.
 

President

Legend
Please...

Rochus basically includes every player taller than he and his brother in his conspiracies (which is nearly everyone including WTA players).

He also heavily insinuates Nole, but I see you ignored that...

I agree with you, that's what I think his mention of the 5 hour semi was referencing. I would have included Djokovic in the title but he didn't actually mention him by name so....
 
Please...

Rochus basically includes every player taller than he and his brother in his conspiracies (which is nearly everyone including WTA players).

He also heavily insinuates Nole, but I see you ignored that...

Fine, Djokovic too! Happy? They're all dopers except for Federer. The field didn't stronger in 2008, it got doper.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Fine, Djokovic too! Happy? They're all dopers except for Federer. The field didn't stronger in 2008, it got doper.

Why would Federer be exempt :confused:

Going by outrageous athletic/physical performances he would be at the top including the other Big 4.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed plays a brand of style that isn't physically taxing on the body unlike Nadal. And Spain/Argentina are most widely known to take PED.
 

The Bawss

Banned
Just waiting to read again from Mustard saying that Lance Armstrong is innocent because he didn't fail a doping test.

Yes, that will be hilarious. I haven't seen him recently but I am looking forward to his reaction to what Lance said on Oprah.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Look at Federer's huge muscles.

LOL...

we've been thru this in another thread. Aesthetics does not always correlate to performance...

But, performance alone is enough for you to allege Nadal doping/silent ban.

Going by the same standard one could accuse Federer of the same...
 

marc45

G.O.A.T.
I always knew Nadal was doping since 2005.

and how exactly did/do you know that?...and more importantly why are you wasting your time divulging it on this website and not in the new york times?...i'm sure chris clarey or jon wertheim would like to hear from you, or are they in on it too?
 

President

Legend
Good point, but Federer hasn't had any real long absences from the sport in order to remove the drug metabolites from this blood. Some can have fairly long half-lifes.

And some don't. A man with Federer's huge resources (the guy is even wealthier than Lance Armstrong) can purchase designer drugs that are undetectable.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed plays a brand of style that isn't physically taxing on the body unlike Nadal. And Spain/Argentina are most widely known to take PED.

If that's your only reason for excluding him as a suspected user of PED's while you suspect Nadal, then you sir are an idiot.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
If that's your only reason for excluding him as a suspected user of PED's while you suspect Nadal, then you sir are an idiot.

Until Fed play exactly like Nadal who's killing his body, and be out for 8+ months, not to mention many people have suspected Nadal, wake me up.
 
Until Fed play exactly like Nadal who's killing his body, and be out for 8+ months, not to mention many people have suspected Nadal, wake me up.

LOL. 'Many people' suspected Nadal for the same naive reasons as you and your ilk, namely that he doesn't tire (true of Roger as well) despite his gamestyle and has big muscles (which are puny compared to many athletes, must be said).

I guess Rochus deserves the benefit of doubt for his generally irresponsible speculations about Nadal and Soderling because he outed the Argentinians in the past (any proof of that anyway?). At least it gets people talking. But people will be biased and ignore facts i.e. that performance enhancers are very different from steroids, that these athletes can be years ahead of the 'testing regime' (which is a joke), that no one could conceivably compete with these juiced-up specimens by staying clean.

I don't wish to see everyone dope just so they perform superhuman feats. For one, it is certain to destroy their bodies. Secondly, I think their training already makes them superhumans compared to 99% of us, and the way they play the game itself is of sufficient intrigue without having see them perform acts we never would (by risking health). There can be a different tour for chemically enhanced athletics and sport.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Just waiting to read again from Mustard saying that Lance Armstrong is innocent because he didn't fail a doping test.

But Lance Armstrong didn't fail a doping test. So where's innocent until proven guilty? The system is full of plea bargains, thereby corrupting the whole process. I don't see how any conviction can be safe in such an environment as that. I read in a newspaper yesterday that the USADA wanted to do a deal with Armstrong to allow him to keep his first 5 Tour de France titles. When Armstrong refused all their plea bargains, and then said that he would no longer defend himself, the USADA went for the maximum punishment, and then the USADA had the audacity to act like a drug free sport was their motivation for throwing the whole damn library at Armstrong. Their real reason was to punish Armstrong for resisting all their plea bargains.
 

Clarky21

Banned
But Lance Armstrong didn't fail a doping test. So where's innocent until proven guilty? The system is full of plea bargains, thereby corrupting the whole process. I don't see how any conviction can be safe in such an environment as that. I read in a newspaper yesterday that the USADA wanted to do a deal with Armstrong to allow him to keep his first 5 Tour de France titles. When Armstrong refused all their plea bargains, and then said that he would no longer defend himself, the USADA went for the maximum punishment, and then the USADA had the audacity to act like a drug free sport was their motivation for throwing the whole damn library at Armstrong. Their real reason was to punish Armstrong for resisting all their plea bargains.


He's still a lying, filthy doper. He admitted he doped, and did everything he could do to avoid getting caught. He's scum.
 

President

Legend
But Lance Armstrong didn't fail a doping test. So where's innocent until proven guilty? The system is full of plea bargains, thereby corrupting the whole process. I don't see how any conviction can be safe in such an environment as that. I read in a newspaper yesterday that the USADA wanted to do a deal with Armstrong to allow him to keep his first 5 Tour de France titles. When Armstrong refused all their plea bargains, and then said that he would no longer defend himself, the USADA went for the maximum punishment, and then the USADA had the audacity to act like a drug free sport was their motivation for throwing the whole damn library at Armstrong. Their real reason was to punish Armstrong for resisting all their plea bargains.

What? The guy has now apparently ADMITTED to doping. What more do you want?
 
And some don't. A man with Federer's huge resources (the guy is even wealthier than Lance Armstrong) can purchase designer drugs that are undetectable.

Sure, but by that logic Mother Teresa is also a doper. The point is you have to go after the most likely cases first.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
What? The guy has now apparently ADMITTED to doping. What more do you want?

With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?
 

bluescreen

Hall of Fame
I think Rochus was touching more on the point that the ATP may be disguising bans/suspensions instead of going lax on drug tests.

Giving more frequent and more thorough tests is one thing, but the ATP handing out public bans and suspensions for positive tests is another. I'm wondering if maybe PED use is so rampant that to penalize all players involved would virtually end the sport.
 

Clarky21

Banned
With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?


What's it going to take for you to realize that Lance doped himself silly? This level of denial is certainly not helping anything.
 
With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?

He's admitting on OPRAH for godsakes. You have you learn to deflate you ego occasionally.
 

reversef

Hall of Fame
With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?
Stop that nonsense, Mustard. Things are very clear, and have been for quite a while.
 
Sure, but by that logic Mother Teresa is also a doper. The point is you have to go after the most likely cases first.

Mother Teresa doping is irrelevant, since she would not be tested by WADA, and I am sure nobody would think any less of her for doing it.

And who is to say who are the likeliest cases? To me, a guy who runs and runs but is clearly a physical specimen is no more suspicious than someone much older who keeps up with him for hours and even prevails over him (apart from others his same age with sudden and quite incredible spurts in performance).
 

Speranza

Hall of Fame
With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?

We don't know. You're right, plea bargaining corrupts the process.

But another 'fact', as you say, is that he was doping and is publicly admitting it.

Whether treated as guilty or not, as you say again, he was doping.

Mustard, you're admired by many here, including myself, but to quote someone else in another thread, you're splitting a hair into four here etc. You're trying to change the goal posts now that he's admitted it himself, to a goal regarding corruption and plea bargaining. Please, for your good name. Stop :)

It matters not that the governing body are corrupt, as I'm sure most sports governing bodies are guilty of at some stage - heck, as most people are at some stage in their lives. The point is, even if others were doing so (and it's sickening that one particular is making money from admitting it), Lance Armstrong was doping.
 
Mother Teresa doping is irrelevant, since she would not be tested by WADA, and I am sure nobody would think any less of her for doing it.

And who is to say who are the likeliest cases? To me, a guy who runs and runs but is clearly a physical specimen is no more suspicious than someone much older who keeps up with him for hours and even prevails over him (apart from others his same age with sudden and quite incredible spurts in performance).

I'm talking about the constant absences, the flu virus crap and the practicing on clay the next day :). Come on, let's get real.
 
With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?

He's admitted to doping and STILL will have to pay back millions of dollars and has had his legacy tarnished forever. The guy fought for so many years all of the allegations, why would he give up now if he was truly innocent? I was looking, and finally found, the one person that still believes Lance to be innocent, even after he says he's guilty.

As for tennis, I wouldn't be surprised if anyone not named Fed, hell even Fed, were found to be a doper. Djok goes from barely being able to finish matches in the heat at AO to being able to take down Nadal in 5-6 hour marathons at the same event a few years later? Sod goes from being a journeyman player to beating Nadal at RG and being a top 5 player? I have suspicions of everyone now.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
Until Fed play exactly like Nadal who's killing his body, and be out for 8+ months, not to mention many people have suspected Nadal, wake me up.

Well I mean look at Rafa, he's paying for playing that way... How many slams has he missed already in his career. How many has Fed missed?

I just don't see how you can say Rafa uses PED's while Fed who has never retired from a match, or missed any slams in his career doesn't...
 
N

nikdom

Guest
This is the reason why teens aren't pulling upsets and there are none in the Top 100. The last teen to win a major went from being a skinny kid to muscular 18 yr old able to physically outplay the top guys. Guess he had the football connections through family to get some vitamins early on.

Most teens don't have that kind of money or connections.
 
I hope when murray is found to be using he has his gold medal and us open taken away.

The only top players i would be amazed if they were using would be delpotro and berdych. The fact that federer is never out of breath is suspicious but i dont think he would.
 

President

Legend
I hope when murray is found to be using he has his gold medal and us open taken away.

The only top players i would be amazed if they were using would be delpotro and berdych. The fact that federer is never out of breath is suspicious but i dont think he would.

Why the hell would you be amazed at Del Potro and Berdych doping? Just like Soderling, both had dramatic breakthroughs and are huge ball bashers. Have you seen the size of Berdych's quads?
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Seriously. It sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me. I still root for Olivier but rarely have seen Christophe play.

Tips talked about how he was randomly tested while he was away and practicing. I believe they do this randomly.

If everyone's is doing it then it should be easy to get some proof or an eyewitness account but there's nothing. C. Rochus offers no proof so why bring it up? It's libel, I think.
 
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Speranza

Hall of Fame
Well I mean look at Rafa, he's paying for playing that way... How many slams has he missed already in his career. How many has Fed missed?

I just don't see how you can say Rafa uses PED's while Fed who has never retired from a match, or missed any slams in his career doesn't...

I'm a Federer fan, but I agree entirely with this point. Ralph is suspected due to his physique but mostly due to his playing style. It's unlikely he would want to bulk up, for that won't help him. However, endurance is the matter concerned. At this stage, everyone comes into the discussion.

I'm not trying to say Federer is guilty, but that the endurance aspect of his game works against him in such discussions.

I hope when murray is found to be using he has his gold medal and us open taken away.

The only top players i would be amazed if they were using would be delpotro and berdych. The fact that federer is never out of breath is suspicious but i dont think he would.

Who would stand to lose more if they were caught? And by caught I'm *implying that the facts were made public for the sake of this conversation. Who? Federer. Now, with all those sponsoring him, and the millions he's worth, do you not think research was done by those companies involved? How much damage could be done to them if Federer was found to be guilty?

BUT, *, I don't believe that if some of the bigger names were caught that the findings would be made public.
 
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