2016 WTA Western & Southern Open (Cincinnati).

[BretH]

She absolutely pounded the ball, and played smart tennis to boot. What struck me about all the women was the trajectory of their typical attacking shots - they had less net clearance than I would have thought, traveled almost straight only to dip consistently at the end so they landed within 6 feet of the baseline. Very inspiring!

 

[spystud]

Angie doesn't know how to play on clay, that's gold. Love when posters just ignore facts.

http://www.wtatennis.com/tournaments/tournamentId/651/title/porsche-tennis-grand-prix

 

[skyline]

What fact did I ignore? That we have to go all the way back to 2012 to find consistently good showings for her on the three most important clay tournaments (and by that, I obviously mean Rome, Madrid and FO)?

The larger point is that Kerber lacks consistency. She flew out in the first round in no less than five tournaments this year, not a glowing stat for a supposed "player of the year." I mean, I might agree she deserves to be called that anyway because it's certainly the season of her career; she's the most improved one. But if we're going by who's had the most impressive results, overall, the ranking on the live race says it all. It's still Serena.

 

[spystud]

Are you blind? Who won Stuttgart in April of this year? What surface is that? Who won Stuttgart in 2015, & what surface is that? All the way back to 2012, I swear.

Way to conveniently pick & choose only the tourneys that fit your narrative. Your blind devotion to Serena makes this a pointless debate.

 

[skyline]

No. What makes this a pointless debate is your blind anger. Rome, Madrid and FO are objectively bigger tournaments than Stuttgart; there is no picking and choosing there unless you resent someone "picking and choosing" bigger tournaments over smaller ones.

FO is the clay GS. Madrid is the only premier mandatory that's played on clay. Rome is the only premier five played on clay. Surely it doesn't take a lot of mental strength to see why I singled those three out. Charleston and Stuttgart are lesser tournaments. Sorry but it's true.

Kerber is weak on clay for a player of her caliber. And my feelings on Serena have absolutely nothing to do with that. Why are you even bringing her up in this context? What does she have to do with Kerber's clay results or the fact that Kerber couldn't make it past round one at 5 out of 22 tournaments she's played (3 of which were on clay)?

And, btw I challenge you to pull out a single post of mine that reeks of blind devotion. Go ahead, I'll wait. I routinely interact with people who dislike Serena just fine, and I think that speaks plenty of my ability to like her without being "blindly devoted."

 

[spystud]

Not to mention that unlike Angie, Serena actually knows how to play on clay.

That was your idiotic comment that started this. If you truly believe what YOU typed there, I can't help you. Enjoy the thread, I'm interested in New Haven now.

 

[skyline]

That was your idiotic comment that started this. If you truly believe what YOU typed there, I can't help you. Enjoy the thread, I'm interested in New Haven now.

And if you truly believe I wrote that because I "hate" Angie" or because I'm "blindly devoted" to Serena, I can't help you. And thanks, I have enjoyed it tremendously.

 

[Vanhool]

@spystud Biases aside, what is your case for Angie easily being player of the year so far? I laid out my case for Serena, which I hope you can agree had some actual reasons beyond the pure bias you accused me of. Not saying you have to agree with my take, just wondering what your case is. Unfortunately (and wrongly, imo), WTA is not acknowledging the Olympics this year.

Or maybe it's best to argue it out when the year is over and we have USO, YEC (and the asian swing if things get desperate). Maybe by then the answer will be unanimous.

 

[skyline]

Obviously if Angie takes USO and Serena bottles it up, most of us will agree this has been her year. Hell, I already said that I might agree anyway just based on the immense progress she's made. She's the story of the year no doubt. But I don't see how she's "the real no. 1" at the moment if we focus on results alone without the context of where she's at right now vs. where she was last year.

I saw that "real no. 1" case for Azarenka briefly during the Miami-IW swing because she was dominant and unstoppable. Angie is amazing but she's not so dominant that one can truly say she's the real no. 1.

 

[Man of steel]

That was your idiotic comment that started this. If you truly believe what YOU typed there, I can't help you. Enjoy the thread, I'm interested in New Haven now.

Well it wasn't really an idiotic comment.
He's simply stating facts. Serena's resume on clay is better than angie's entire career on all surfaces. Angie has barely done anything on clay besides winning stuttgart which just premier 470 title and has lost numerous times in early rounds at RG. Doesn't compare to winning Rome or madrid and certainly nowhere near winning RG. So yea compared to serena, she's not good on it.

 

[counterloop]

Well it wasn't really an idiotic comment.
He's simply stating facts. Serena's resume on clay is better than angie's entire career on all surfaces. Angie has barely done anything on clay besides winning stuttgart which just premier 470 title and has lost numerous times in early rounds at RG. Doesn't compare to winning Rome or madrid and certainly nowhere near winning RG. So yea compared to serena, she's not good on it.

I know it's kind of hard to do, but, I think we should stop comparing current players to Serena. She is in a league of her own and almost everybody will fall short in comparison in almost every statistical category. Even if she loses the number 1 ranking to Angie, nobody in their right mind would say that Angie is the better player between the two. I would put Sharapova, Azarenka, Kvitova, Kerber and Mugaruza in one group and just leave Serena in her own group with Chris, Martina and Steffi.

 

[skyline]

I mean, of course, Serena's in the league of her own relative to all current players. What I really wanted to say was that she posted consistently good results on all surfaces she's played on this year. I would have liked for Angie to do the same before proclaiming her the undisputed player of the year. And results of years past show that this wasn't a fluke. It's a weak surface for her, no doubt about it, as it is for a number of other top players. Radwanska never does that well either; ditto for Venus.

Clay generally tends to be the most common weak spot, as far as I can tell. Could be that players don't practice on it as much because the season is so heavily titled towards hardcourt surfaces.

 

[Vanhool]

I mean, of course, Serena's in the league of her own relative to all current players. What I really wanted to say was that she posted consistently good results on all surfaces she's played on this year. I would have liked for Angie to do the same before proclaiming her the undisputed player of the year. And results of years past show that this wasn't a fluke. It's a weak surface for her, no doubt about it, as it is for a number of other top players. Radwanska never does that well either; ditto for Venus.

Clay generally tends to be the most common weak spot, as far as I can tell. Could be that players don't practice on it as much because the season is so heavily titled towards hardcourt surfaces.

Yes, but clay season is still too long, giving us terrible things like top ten Errani. Clay is a weak mug surface and I'm changing my name to 70s Grass.

 

[skyline]

Yes, but clay season is still too long, giving us terrible things like top ten Errani. Clay is a weak mug surface and I'm changing my name to 70s Grass.

Hey now. You forget our girl likes clay best.

 

[Vanhool]

Hey now. You forget our girl likes clay best.

That's right. And it is kind to her granny knees.