2020 London ATP Finals Round Robin: Djoker [1] vs Mad Lad [4]

[Hitman]

I would not give anything to Nadal. The way Medvedev played vs Novak, he can easily beat Nadal as well.
Remember last year Medvedev was dominating Rafa completely before choking.
And then Nadal has to get through Titspas which is NOT a given.

Nadal would much rather play Tsitsipas than Zverev for a place in the semis imo, and would much rather play Medvedev than Djokovic for a place in the final. Rafa is playing really well, he shouldn't be underestimated. He can now just see it as a knockout event from now on, and he got the two players he would rather face in his path IMO.

Of course it will not be easy, this is the WTF, top guys here everywhere, but Rafa won't go down easy. He was barely beaten by 100 mph bombs by Thiem, it wasn't like he was outplayed completely. Novak went down easier here.

 

[Leandro2045]

Djokovic CANNOT muster enough motivation these days in non slam events. Had this been the AO, it would have been completely different.
Djokovic is a different animal in slams. Almost impossible to beat in a best of 5 format.

As seen by the two slams played Post-Covid...

 

[MeatTornado]

Well his next two possible opponents (Tsitsipas & Medvedev) are both 0-3 each on Hard Courts against Nadal.

Losing multiple key finals & matches against him.

Yeah but if you remove the losses, they're undefeated against Nadal. They own him. He can't measure up to their superior mentality.

 

[Amritia]

Nadal would much rather play Tsitsipas than Zverev for a place in the semis imo, and would much rather play Medvedev than Djokovic for a place in the final. Rafa is playing really well, he shouldn't be underestimated. He can now just see it as a knockout event from now on, and he got the two players he would rather face in his path IMO.

Of course it will not be easy, this is the WTF, top guys here everywhere, but Rafa won't go down easy. He was barely beaten by 100 mph bombs by Thiem, it wasn't like he was outplayed completely. Novak went down easier here.

Spot on, good analysis.

 

[Hitman]

Do you think Djokovic can beat Thiem in the SF - if that match happens?

Yes, if he gets there, he can, but Thiem is looking scary good right now, I would not give Novak that win just yet.

 

[clayqueen]

I wouldn't count the Songeo match. That was a tank as big as you will ever see. Djokovic really didn't care.
Today Medvedev played well, and Djokovic wasn't in the groove.
French Open - Nadal did God Mode and no one can do anything.
Other than that Novak has been supreme and he was denied a sure UsOpen 2020 title.

Don't give me the tanking senario, please. All he had to do was beat Sonego and win 2 more matches to take the title. No top player would tank to someone like Sonego, if the ever tank.

 

[StrongRule]

This is nothing to do with the views of TTW.
I'm giving my objective opinion having watched and analysed these matches. Nadal did play well yesterday, which he said so himself. Djokovic played badly today, but given it's a RR match he has time to improve and still win the tournament.

Nadal was absolutely horrible on the big points, this is what matters. You can play great, but if you don't bring that on any big points then it doesn't matter. Players just have to keep the score close these days, and Nadal will choke.

 

[mike danny]

It's been a while I think. Nice and simple now for the two shoot outs, we don't need to worry about sets and games won. Whoever wins goes into the semis, whoever loses, goes home.

Even if Nadal wins, the organizers will still find a way to keep him away from the semis. The rules of this tournament are PATHETIC and I wish Nadal didn't play it.

 

[Hitman]

I would love Rafa to play this Novak.

Can only happen in the final....

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal would much rather play Tsitsipas than Zverev for a place in the semis imo, and would much rather play Medvedev than Djokovic for a place in the final. Rafa is playing really well, he shouldn't be underestimated. He can now just see it as a knockout event from now on, and he got the two players he would rather face in his path IMO.

Of course it will not be easy, this is the WTF, top guys here everywhere, but Rafa won't go down easy. He was barely beaten by 100 mph bombs by Thiem, it wasn't like he was outplayed completely. Novak went down easier here.

Yeah even though he lost in straights he was about 4 points from winning in straights lol

 

[aldeayeah]

Not that I think this is possible, but doesn't Nadal still have a theoretical chance to take the first place? If he beats Tsitsipas in straights and Thiem loses to Rublev in straights? Thiem would lose more sets then.

The first tiebreaker is h2h, not sets won, so thiem is 1st regardless of what happens

Sets won only matter in a three way tie.

 

[Amritia]

Don't give me the tanking senario, please. All he had to do was beat Sonego and win 2 more matches to take the title. No top player would tank to someone like Sonego, if the ever tank.

I don't know if he was tanking, ie intentionally losing, but he definitely wasn't focused against Sonego. Was mentally all over the place.
Tbh today his shot selection was really bizarre too. Djoko- Zverev will be interesting. I fancy Djokovic to improve his game and get through to SF.

 

[TennisFan3]

Nadal would much rather play Tsitsipas than Zverev for a place in the semis imo, and would much rather play Medvedev than Djokovic for a place in the final. Rafa is playing really well, he shouldn't be underestimated. He can now just see it as a knockout event from now on, and he got the two players he would rather face in his path IMO.

Of course it will not be easy, this is the WTF, top guys here everywhere, but Rafa won't go down easy. He was barely beaten by 100 mph bombs by Thiem, it wasn't like he was outplayed completely. Novak went down easier here.

Good post. Zverev is harder for Nadal than Titspas. And obviously Novak is harder for Nadal than Medvedev.
Still IMO this is indoors and the literally the worst court for Nadal's game. He can't be the favorite against any top player.
If it was the UsOpen/AO - it would be different. That said, Nadal won't complain about his draw. He has a chance, but I'm not sure he is good enough to take it on this surface.

 

[clayqueen]

Can only happen in the final....

Chance would be a fine thing.

 

[Hitman]

Not that I think this is possible, but doesn't Nadal still have a theoretical chance to take the first place? If he beats Tsitsipas in straights and Thiem loses to Rublev in straights? Thiem would lose more sets then.

No, it has been confirmed already that Thiem has topped the group by the commentators.

 

[Amritia]

Even if Nadal wins, the organizers will still find a way to keep him away from the semis. The rules of this tournament are PATHETIC and I wish Nadal didn't play it.

It's RIGGED.
Nadal WON HIS GROUP.

Don't let fake news ATP convince you otherwise.

 

[StrongRule]

The first tiebreaker is h2h, not sets won, so thiem is 1st regardless of what happens

Sets won only matter in a three way tie.

Last year Nadal beat Tsitsipas and it didn't matter.

 

[TennisFan3]

As seen by the two slams played Post-Covid...

UsOpen he was ROBBED. Without that DQ, he was winning #18 without breaking a sweat.
And French Open, it was Nadal who you can't really do anything about.
Still Novak is the favorite in any non clay slam.

 

[Amritia]

Nadal was absolutely horrible on the big points, this is what matters. You can play great, but if you don't bring that on any big points then it doesn't matter. Players just have to keep the score close these days, and Nadal will choke.

Yeah Nadal's serving in both the tiebreaks against Thiem was not great. However, his overall level of play was. He's the underdog, but he still has a shot at this title.

 

[Amritia]

Chance would be a fine thing.

Have you heard of a show called Peep Show?

 

[Hitman]

Yeah even though he lost in straights he was about 4 points from winning in straights lol

Pretty much. I think he will make the semis for sure, Tsitsipas almost lost to Rublev after having a commanding lead, and Rafa is a bad match up for him. Heck, Rafa is a bad match up for Medvedev too.

 

[TennisFan3]

Don't give me the tanking senario, please. All he had to do was beat Sonego and win 2 more matches to take the title. No top player would tank to someone like Sonego, if the ever tank.

Djokovic said in his presser, he ONLY came for #1 for that tournament. He accomplished that objective. I don't know what else there is besides a tank in this scenario.

 

[TheAssassin]

Last year Nadal beat Tsitsipas and it didn't matter.

H2H when two players are tied.

Sets W-L when three players are tied.

 

[Nadal_King]

Djokovic- Zverev play first on friday, semis order will be then thiem semi 1st and meddy one 2nd

 

[clayqueen]

No, it has been confirmed already that Thiem has topped the group by the commentators.

What if Thiem loses badly to Rublev and Rafa beats Tstis easily?

 

[Amritia]

What if Thiem lose badly to Rublev and Rafa beats Tstis easily?

Thiem beat Nadal so it wouldn't matter.

 

[Hitman]

Good post. Zverev is harder for Nadal than Titspas. And obviously Novak is harder for Nadal than Medvedev.
Still IMO this is indoors and the literally the worst court for Nadal's game. He can't be the favorite against any top player.
If it was the UsOpen/AO - it would be different. That said, Nadal won't complain about his draw. He has a chance, but I'm not sure he is good enough to take it on this surface.

You know there is a chance now, that Rafa doesn't even play Novak here....I don't think Djokovic is going to like taking on Thiem here, considering their last match here, and what happened in AO and Thiem is really zoning here.

 

[BackhandDTL]

Nadal would much rather play Tsitsipas than Zverev for a place in the semis imo, and would much rather play Medvedev than Djokovic for a place in the final. Rafa is playing really well, he shouldn't be underestimated. He can now just see it as a knockout event from now on, and he got the two players he would rather face in his path IMO.

Of course it will not be easy, this is the WTF, top guys here everywhere, but Rafa won't go down easy. He was barely beaten by 100 mph bombs by Thiem, it wasn't like he was outplayed completely. Novak went down easier here.

Not only about form but also matchups. Ned can abuse the Tstisi backhand and his slice/topspin combo to Meds backhand is pretty deadly.

 

[TennisFan3]

Pretty much. I think he will make the semis for sure, Tsitsipas almost lost to Rublev after having a commanding lead, and Rafa is a bad match up for him. Heck, Rafa is a bad match up for Medvedev too.

Not being a devil's advocate. But I wouldn't say that about Medvedev-Nadal.
Medvedev has been making inroads vs Nadal. Took him to 5 sets in the UsOpen. And then last year had him on the ropes in the WTF.
Medvedev is getting better. But yeah, Nadal would rather face Medvedev than Zverev for ex. Medvedev won't blow you off the court..

 

[Leandro2045]

What if Thiem lose badly to Rublev and Rafa beats Tstis easily?

H2H is the tiebreaker so both Medvedev and Thiem already topped their groups.

They both can lose their last match 0-6 0-6 and would still be first.

 

[Slowtwitcher]

Any Serb archbishops died yesterday?

 

[Hitman]

What if Thiem loses badly to Rublev and Rafa beats Tstis easily?

The scores don't matter now.

It's been confirmed that both Thiem and Medvedev have topped their groups. It is a straight shoot out not matter the score for second place in both groups.

 

[Amritia]

The scores don't matter now.

It's been confirmed that both Thiem and Medvedev have topped their groups. It is a straight shoot out not matter the score for second place in both groups.

Tournament couldn't be set up in a more tasty manner.

 

[StrongRule]

You know there is a chance now, that Rafa doesn't even play Novak here....I don't think Djokovic is going to like taking on Thiem here, considering their last match here, and what happened in AO and Thiem is really zoning here.

Dude, Nadal is probably losing to Tsitsipas tomorrow. He can't win any big points, he will not get away with it.

 

[TennisFan3]

You know there is a chance now, that Rafa doesn't even play Novak here....I don't think Djokovic is going to like taking on Thiem here, considering their last match here, and what happened in AO and Thiem is really zoning here.

I've gotta say one thing: When Thiem redlines, he is the BEST player in the world. Better than Novak. Better than Nadal. Problem is Thiem doesn't have the consistency.
The Nadal-Thiem match was VERY high quality. Yes, Nadal choked on some points. But Thiem also totally redlined and everything went in. Thiem won the match, more than Nadal lost it.
If Thiem brings that level vs Novak - then Novak will need to be at his best. IF Novak is sloppy like he was today, he will get beaten by Thiem IMO.

 

[Hitman]

Not only about form but also matchups. Ned can abuse the Tstisi backhand and his slice/topspin combo to Meds backhand is pretty deadly.

Yes, add the two togther, and I'm telling you, Rafa has got to be liking his chances even more now. Have to say that Thiem having won his group could have the tougher opponent in his semi now.

 

[mike danny]

Last year Nadal beat Tsitsipas and it didn't matter.

It was a 3 way tie last year.

 

[Hitman]

Not being a devil's advocate. But I wouldn't say that about Medvedev-Nadal.
Medvedev has been making inroads vs Nadal. Took him to 5 sets in the UsOpen. And then last year had him on the ropes in the WTF.
Medvedev is getting better. But yeah, Nadal would rather face Medvedev than Zverev for ex. Medvedev won't blow you off the court..

Rafa would take Med any day over Novak here, not matter what.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Pretty much. I think he will make the semis for sure, Tsitsipas almost lost to Rublev after having a commanding lead, and Rafa is a bad match up for him. Heck, Rafa is a bad match up for Medvedev too.

Im not that confident though, if this was outside I'd feel better about his chances

 

[Hitman]

Dude, Nadal is probably losing to Tsitsipas tomorrow. He can't win any big points, he will not get away with it.

LOL - Did you see Tsitsipas almost royally choke against Rublev, the guy Rafa straight setted.

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Members of this forum are a bunch of mugs lmao

This was one of the easiest predictions ever, especially after what we saw from Djokovic in Vienna and Medvedev in Paris, still TTWers got it terribly wrong

Kudos to the one poster who got it right. He's obviously the only one here who understands what's going on..

Thanks @AnOctorokForDinner

 

[TennisFan3]

Rafa would take Med any day over Novak here, not matter what.

Rafa would take "any player" any day OVER Novak.
Novak is a nightmare matchup for him. His kryptonite. Imagine if there was no Novak, Rafa would have the GS record a long long time ago.

 

[Hitman]

I've gotta say one thing: When Thiem redlines, he is the BEST player in the world. Better than Novak. Better than Nadal. Problem is Thiem doesn't have the consistency.
The Nadal-Thiem match was VERY high quality. Yes, Nadal choked on some points. But Thiem also totally redlined and everything went in. Thiem won the match, more than Nadal lost it.
If Thiem brings that level vs Novak - then Novak will need to be at his best. IF Novak is sloppy like he was today, he will get beaten by Thiem IMO.

Thiem is looking dangerous here IMO. And I think I might give him the edge overall, but if he gets to a final with Rafa on the other side, all bets are off.

 

[Amritia]

I've gotta say one thing: When Thiem redlines, he is the BEST player in the world. Better than Novak. Better than Nadal. Problem is Thiem doesn't have the consistency.
The Nadal-Thiem match was VERY high quality. Yes, Nadal choked on some points. But Thiem also totally redlined and everything went in. Thiem won the match, more than Nadal lost it.
If Thiem brings that level vs Novak - then Novak will need to be at his best. IF Novak is sloppy like he was today, he will get beaten by Thiem IMO.

Agree with this completely.

 

[Hitman]

Im not that confident though, if this was outside I'd feel better about his chances

Either way, you would have to ack that Rafa has a better chance with Tsitsipas and Medvedev than he would have against Zverev and Djokovic in his way to the final.

 

[mike danny]

Now I hope Med tanks on Friday so he can save his energy for Nadal. He is going to need it.

 

[mike danny]

Thiem is looking dangerous here IMO. And I think I might give him the edge overall, but if he gets to a final with Rafa on the other side, all bets are off.

I still don't trust Thiem in a big final ocer anyone despite being a GS champion.

 

[TennisFan3]

Thiem is looking dangerous here IMO. And I think I might give him the edge overall, but if he gets to a final with Rafa on the other side, all bets are off.

Maybe I'm over-reacting, but I was seriously impressed by Thiem's level vs Nadal. It was an excellent match - one of the best of the year IMO.
I've watched Nadal long enough as you know, but honestly Nadal didn't play BAD. Nadal actually played better than I expected on this court.
Yes, Nadal choked on a few points, but on a lot of the others Thiem totally took it to Nadal. Honestly, given the indoor conditions, I don't know if Nadal can play much better. He will need a lot of luck to be able to beat Thiem.
Since Novak is a better indoor player, it stands to reason, he would have a better chance vs Thiem. But it would take a Novak at his best. Anything less, Thiem wins IMO.
I hate to say it, since I'm not a big fan of Thiem, but the Austrian is looking primed. If he can hold his nerve and be consistent, his PEAK level is higher than Nadal/Djokovic/everyone-else.

 

[Hitman]

I still don't trust Thiem in a big final ocer anyone despite being a GS champion.

Which is the ace in the sleeve for Rafa now. Despite losing yesterday to Thiem, Rafa is in a decent position. Just straight knock out from here on out, and he avoids certian players, and there is a chance, he may make the final and it's Thiem waiting for him instead of Novak.

 

[Hitman]

Maybe I'm over-reacting, but I was seriously impressed by Thiem's level vs Nadal. It was an excellent match - one of the best of the year IMO.
I've watched Nadal long enough as you know, but honestly Nadal didn't play BAD. Nadal actually played better than I expected on this court.
Yes, Nadal choked on a few points, but on a lot of the others Thiem totally took it to Nadal. Honestly, given the indoor conditions, I don't know if Nadal can play much better. He will need a lot of luck to be able to beat Thiem.
Since Novak is a better indoor player, it stands to reason, he would have a better chance vs Thiem. But it would take a Novak at his best. Anything less, Thiem wins IMO.
I hate to say it, since I'm not a big fan of Thiem, but the Austrian is looking primed. If he can hold his nerve and be consistent, his PEAK level is higher than Nadal/Djokovic/everyone-else.

Yeah, so far Thiem has impressed me the most also, but I am not sure he can beat Djokovic and Nadal back to back here, which looks likely to me.