2021 US Open SF: [1] Novak Djokovic vs. [4] Alexander Zverev

To the final


  • Total voters
    203

Zetty

Hall of Fame
The cumulative stats of this supposed "baseline pusher" in his first 6 matches:

Djokovic​
Opponents​
Winners263200
Net approaches194/1360 (14.3%)149/1360 (11.0%)
Net points141/194 (72.7%)84/149 (56.4%)

Very interesting "baseline pusher" who hits more winners than his opponents, comes to the net more often than his opponents, and wins more points at the net than his opponents.
He hits more winners because they simply can't hit through him. The only guy who really can is 36 years old and done. The net play is a nice coup lately tho.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Yes, Novak is still playing great. That doesn't change the fact that the Failed Gen has been a monumental disappointment.
Let's admit it guys,,, Sasha doesn't deserve to win this match. He got broken 3 times in the deciding set... and his best weapon is his serve. even though novak is a great returner, server still has the advantage.
 

davced1

Hall of Fame
The cumulative stats of this supposed "baseline pusher" in his first 6 matches:

Djokovic​
Opponents​
Winners263200
Net approaches194/1360 (14.3%)149/1360 (11.0%)
Net points141/194 (72.7%)84/149 (56.4%)

Very interesting "baseline pusher" who hits more winners than his opponents, comes to the net more often than his opponents, and wins more points at the net than his opponents.
He is still boring to watch and it has nothing to do with the stats only style of play and it's all personal preference. Zverev is also boring so it made for a very boring match yesterday. Medvedev and Auger-Aliassime are exciting so that match was better despite the score. With Djokovic as I know how he plays for 15 years I am bored even before the match starts. I know he is good, I know Zverev is good, I know it was supposedly an epic match yesterday but no I was bored and couldn't even sit through the full match. Tonight I very much look forward to Fernandez Raducanu two off the charts exciting players.
 

Frankc

Professional
Sorry to be positive in this thread, but all objective media accounts have called it a brilliant and well played match - very high level, except for the opening of the 5th.

I hope that I am not too out of line by being balanced and positive - the journalists would agree. Beautiful and vibrant high quality stuff... Oh, there I go, being positive and balanced again...

Just a thought - to posters who constantly trash with glee a world class athlete, how well do you play?

A brilliant match - much brilliance that is hard to comprehend...
 

paolo2143

Semi-Pro
Mate, anyone who’s not a Novak fan can see how pathetic this is

35 year old is one win away from a CYGS. It’s a joke.
Funny i don't remember Fed fans telling everyone how pathetic it was that at 36 he won 2 grand slams out of 3 entered in 2017. That was year when both Murray & Novak were struggling with injuries and the likes of Zverev, Med and Stefanos were nowhere near the players they are now.
 

davced1

Hall of Fame
Funny i don't remember Fed fans telling everyone how pathetic it was that at 36 he won 2 grand slams out of 3 entered in 2017. That was year when both Murray & Novak were struggling with injuries and the likes of Zverev, Med and Stefanos were nowhere near the players they are now.
How could it have been pathetic when it was so epic?
 

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Hall of Fame
God the anti Novak haters are getting more desperate by the minute. We all know if it was their guy in Novak's position they would be saying it was the greatest feet in tennis history
The reason it is irksome is because it hasn't happened yet. Medvedev may win tomorrow and has a very good chance to do so. It's premature. We've all been wrong in our predictions at one time or another and we have all wanted someone to win so much that we can't contemplate that they may lose - I have been guilty of that from time to time. If Djokovic wins and he does so honestly then as much as I dislike him I will acknowledge that he has earned this USO but not before tomorrow when the match ends.
 

Rina

Professional
Could you tell me the levels of the players? It was too late for me.
So Djokovic played really well. Could sustain long rallies, but did not win them all. If he could draw Zverev to the net, he could pretty much count on him missing. Very few balls at the net that Zverev did not hit wide or in the net. The serve was the excellent speed by AZ but some double faults. Novak serve placement was superb. Zverev can't sustain the momentum, from 4th to 5th. Nut casing a bit, but not as much as usual. Novak missed some shots by going for the lines. In the 5th Zverev a bit petulant, nothing new there.
Novak just seems to raise his level when needed. Incredible. Nothing bothers him, no bad language from Novak towards himself.
Zverev net game cost him a lot. Pathetic net game. Zverev seems to lack a tactical approach. If he doesn't win with the serve or with the immediate punch, he is likely to lose the point.
Zverev rarely seems to dictate long rallies with placement. Novak had ups and downs, think due to the power Zverev generates.
 

uscwang

Hall of Fame
Sorry to be positive in this thread, but all objective media accounts have called it a brilliant and well played match - very high level, except for the opening of the 5th.

I hope that I am not too out of line by being balanced and positive - the journalists would agree. Beautiful and vibrant high quality stuff... Oh, there I go, being positive and balanced again...

Just a thought - to posters who constantly trash with glee a world class athlete, how well do you play?

A brilliant match - much brilliance that is hard to comprehend...
The sad thing is those posters are the loudest.

It was indeed a high level match, should've been the final. Zverev showed improvement and will eventually win majors. But this is Novak's time. Nobody can take it away.
 

davced1

Hall of Fame
Sorry to be positive in this thread, but all objective media accounts have called it a brilliant and well played match - very high level, except for the opening of the 5th.

I hope that I am not too out of line by being balanced and positive - the journalists would agree. Beautiful and vibrant high quality stuff... Oh, there I go, being positive and balanced again...

Just a thought - to posters who constantly trash with glee a world class athlete, how well do you play?

A brilliant match - much brilliance that is hard to comprehend...
Are you suggesting it takes a certain level of play to appreciate the level of Djokovic?
 

Wesling

New User
zverev usually doesnt need much of tactics due to his ridicilous power and also depth. only someone like novak with his shot tolerance and ability to deliver it long back stands a chance. the rest of the field crumbles usually. ( save for tsitsipas, who has his own problems with his BH and weak ROS - but great player )taking a set off Novak is easy, two is also possible for the big servebots like Zverev - 3.... need a proper redlining player on his day to do that . very few complete players out there , Djokovic is one of a kind - he has very few weaknesses. you need to hit through him, which very few since Stanimal has done.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Funny i don't remember Fed fans telling everyone how pathetic it was that at 36 he won 2 grand slams out of 3 entered in 2017. That was year when both Murray & Novak were struggling with injuries and the likes of Zverev, Med and Stefanos were nowhere near the players they are now.
Plenty of Fed fans were saying 2017 was a weak era. Go back and read. We were very happy he won slams after a 5 year draught, but no Fed fans are claiming 2017 to be a particular strong year
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Was just looking at Novak’s five-set record. Since the start of 2011, he’s gone 23-5. o_O Fully half of his fifth-set losses came before Novak 2.0 (and even then he had a good 12-5 record).
1. Murray 2012 USO 2-6*
2. Nadal 2013 FO 7-9
3. Wawrinka 2014 AO 7-9
4. Istomin 2017 AO* 4-6
5. Thiem 2019 FO 5-7*

Two were marred by the wind, one was in 2017, nuff said.

I have to note he lost a few 4 setters which he maybe should've taken to a 5th, including somewhat problematic losses after winning the 1st set (2014 RG, 2015 RG).
 

liriel

Semi-Pro
So Djokovic played really well. Could sustain long rallies, but did not win them all. If he could draw Zverev to the net, he could pretty much count on him missing. Very few balls at the net that Zverev did not hit wide or in the net. The serve was the excellent speed by AZ but some double faults. Novak serve placement was superb. Zverev can't sustain the momentum, from 4th to 5th. Nut casing a bit, but not as much as usual. Novak missed some shots by going for the lines. In the 5th Zverev a bit petulant, nothing new there.
Novak just seems to raise his level when needed. Incredible. Nothing bothers him, no bad language from Novak towards himself.
Zverev net game cost him a lot. Pathetic net game. Zverev seems to lack a tactical approach. If he doesn't win with the serve or with the immediate punch, he is likely to lose the point.
Zverev rarely seems to dictate long rallies with placement. Novak had ups and downs, think due to the power Zverev generates.
Thank you. Could you compare this semi-final to the one Novak played against Rafa at RG? (Obviously Rafa was a bit injured but that's irrelevant). Novak had a lot of skills AND luck during that semi and Rafa choked. Was Novak's level higher or lower this time? Do you think he was in a beatable form?
So again Zverev's lack of net game cost him. He's probably working on it for years but with no results.
And choking Zverev back again but not to the extremes of last year?
Novak's mental game is out of this world. I'm surprised it's not as great during the Bo3 though.
Also can you compare the stamina and running - fitness level of both?
Thank you for great assessment. Last question - do you think it was a great game overall or just above ordinary? Did Zverev fail or maybe it's close to his peak and that's exactly who he is as a player. I'm asking because I'm always going back to the semis vs Rafa - Big 3 vs Big 3. There was something electric during that game, everyone standing, cheering. Also the rivalry.. So it's still a match of the year for me and I compare the best matches to this one.
 

Frankc

Professional
Are you suggesting it takes a certain level of play to appreciate the level of Djokovic?
No, I was trying to ask, as gently as possible, if these "gleefully negative" posters really appreciate and love the game , or if other issues need to be on the table.
 

Rina

Professional
Thank you. Could you compare this semi-final to the one Novak played against Rafa at RG? (Obviously Rafa was a bit injured but that's irrelevant). Novak had a lot of skills AND luck during that semi and Rafa choked. Was Novak's level higher or lower this time? Do you think he was in a beatable form?
So again Zverev's lack of net game cost him. He's probably working on it for years but with no results.
And choking Zverev back again but not to the extremes of last year?
Novak's mental game is out of this world. I'm surprised it's not as great during the Bo3 though.
Also can you compare the stamina and running - fitness level of both?
Thank you for great assessment. Last question - do you think it was a great game overall or just above ordinary? Did Zverev fail or maybe it's close to his peak and that's exactly who he is as a player. I'm asking because I'm always going back to the semis vs Rafa - Big 3 vs Big 3. There was something electric during that game, everyone standing, cheering. Also the rivalry.. So it's still a match of the year for me and I compare the best matches to this one.
I did not watch the RG match. Sorry.
 

onyxrose81

Hall of Fame
Pin this comment. But did anybody else get the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday? The way he said “I’m gonna play Sunday like it’s the last match of my career.”. The way he looked at Patrick McEnroe when he said it almost looked like he was hinting at something. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it would be one hell of a way to call it a career.
I don’t know why people are taking his words at face value. What it means is he’s going to basically die on that court to try and win. He doesn’t care if it’ll put him out of commission for months. Why would he retire? He has a chance to get #10 at AO. And he’s not going to leave it to chance for Rafa to tie or pass. Novak’s not going to retire until after Rafa does.
 

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Hall of Fame
I don’t know why people are taking his words at face value. What it means is he’s going to basically die on that court to try and win. He doesn’t care if it’ll put him out of commission for months. Why would he retire? He has a chance to get #10 at AO. And he’s not going to leave it to chance for Rafa to tie or pass. Novak’s not going to retire until after Rafa does.
I actually find this good news because he loses when he is over-confident and tries too hard. Almost every major loss in his career has happened when he has wanted it too much and a few times he simply hasn't shown up for the match, particularly in some of his major matches with Rafa. (and before Djokovic fans jump all over me I am only referring to Djokovic's losses, I know that he sometimes has won in straight sets from time to time too).
 

duaneeo

Legend
Nole served first in all 5 sets. He broke in sets 2 and 3 when Zverev served to stay in the set, and held serve in sets 1 & 4 to force Zverev to serve them out. Had the match been BO7, Nole would've also served first in the 6th set. Pathetic.
 

liriel

Semi-Pro
I don’t know why people are taking his words at face value. What it means is he’s going to basically die on that court to try and win. He doesn’t care if it’ll put him out of commission for months. Why would he retire? He has a chance to get #10 at AO. And he’s not going to leave it to chance for Rafa to tie or pass. Novak’s not going to retire until after Rafa does.
Agreed. He might play less but he won't Rafa equal his slam count (if Rafa wins RG)
 

Zetty

Hall of Fame
Total points won:

Djokovic: 140
Zverev: 133

That indicates a very close match. Zverev's mental game harms him in fifth sets.
He was just spent mentally. But he's going against maybe the most impenetrable player of all time when it comes to that. I can't remember how many first sets he's lost and still ends up winning the match. There's no shame for Zverev when he can beat literally everyone else on tour but a guy that's a GOAT contender.
 

liriel

Semi-Pro
He was just spent mentally. But he's going against maybe the most impenetrable player of all time when it comes to that. I can't remember how many first sets he's lost and still ends up winning the match. There's no shame for Zverev when he can beat literally everyone else on tour but a guy that's a GOAT contender.
That GOAT might break him mentally. At least for some time. His good run ended. That's a fact. He needs to pick himself up. Not an easy task. The pressure.
 

Aabye5

Hall of Fame
Thank you. Could you compare this semi-final to the one Novak played against Rafa at RG? (Obviously Rafa was a bit injured but that's irrelevant). Novak had a lot of skills AND luck during that semi and Rafa choked. Was Novak's level higher or lower this time? Do you think he was in a beatable form?
So again Zverev's lack of net game cost him. He's probably working on it for years but with no results.
And choking Zverev back again but not to the extremes of last year?
Novak's mental game is out of this world. I'm surprised it's not as great during the Bo3 though.
Also can you compare the stamina and running - fitness level of both?
Thank you for great assessment. Last question - do you think it was a great game overall or just above ordinary? Did Zverev fail or maybe it's close to his peak and that's exactly who he is as a player. I'm asking because I'm always going back to the semis vs Rafa - Big 3 vs Big 3. There was something electric during that game, everyone standing, cheering. Also the rivalry.. So it's still a match of the year for me and I compare the best matches to this one.
It was a very good game, but not great. There were moments of brilliance from both, but not really sustained. Zverev failed, because in that last set his head went AWOL. Not comparable to the Nadal match

Stamina and fitness....Djokovic started off pretty cold, and Zverev was bullying him with the forehand in the first set. But stamina was never really an issue with either. They hit an amazin 53-point rally and both were sucking wind, but it was intense. Zverev broke down mentally, but he didn't look tired in the 5th.

Yes, choking Zverev returned, but only a few appearances of the yips, nothing like in 2020.

I think Novak's form was definitely lower in this match than the Nadal match. But he raised his level when it counted. The sets he won weren't even close, because he raised his level when he needed it most.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Zverev did almost everything right, just needed to finish the 3rd Set more aggressively. He goes passive for periods which cost him, obviously the 5th Set. Overall a tremendous performance Zverev.
 

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Hall of Fame
Zverev did almost everything right, just needed to finish the 3rd Set more aggressively. He goes passive for periods which cost him, obviously the 5th Set. Overall a tremendous performance Zverev.
Yowzers, that was an extremely close match! It really came down to exactly what I feared from Zverev, his inability to keep his concentration with mental lapses happening at the wrong times (the fifth set!)
 

liriel

Semi-Pro
So did Zverev did everything or Novak form was better before (vs Nadal) so was beatable if Zverev didn't choke a bit?
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
So did Zverev did everything or Novak form was better before (vs Nadal) so was beatable if Zverev didn't choke a bit?
I never said Zverev did everything right.
I said Zverev did almost everything right.
Zverev chose exactly the right strategy and had exactly the right attitude, except-
After winning the 1st Set he became a pusher.
After winning the 4th Set he became a pusher.
And Djokovic has never been unbeatable, especially this year when he needed a 98 minute 3rd Set just to hit the lead vs. foot-injured-Nadal.....
 

gameovais

Rookie
And Djokovic has never been unbeatable, especially this year when he needed a 98 minute 3rd Set just to hit the lead vs. foot-injured-Nadal.....
Give it a rest will you.

Just like last night when Djokovic was outplayed, Nadal was outplayed at RG this year. Defeats can be tough to take, especially for immature fans, but they are part of the game.

It's been less than 24 hours and I've already gotten over Djokovic's defeat. Why are you still moaning/whining about a defeat 3 months ago?
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Give it a rest will you.

Just like last night when Djokovic was outplayed, Nadal was outplayed at RG this year. Defeats can be tough to take, especially for immature fans, but they are part of the game.

It's been less than 24 hours and I've already gotten over Djokovic's defeat. Why are you still moaning/whining about a defeat 3 months ago?
 
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